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Post by colfoley on Sept 12, 2018 7:46:43 GMT
Lets see one franchise, as far as I know, might actually be dead on arrival with all of its sequels apparently being put on hold. One franchise keeps on trying to reboot itself and recapture the glory years but with ever more ridicilious twists that they then spoil in the trailers (oddly enough I did rather like Terminator Salvation). While the final franchise continues to make reams of money and has multiple installments still in production. I think it'll do just fine
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Post by OneWomanArmy on Sept 12, 2018 7:54:26 GMT
Terminator is still alive??!! Sadly, this seems to be the case [/spoiler[ LOOOOL It’s the new Hollywood
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 12, 2018 9:06:09 GMT
Star Wars. I don't know about Terminator and Alien. These franchises have long been concluded, there is no more story to tell.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Sept 12, 2018 11:10:52 GMT
i would have said like Pounce above, but the last jedi changed my view , quite liked it. Anyway, as for how they age, those 3 are really good in their original shape (3 or 2 movies for T) What s good about alien and T is that shitty sequels are easily ignored, while prequels in SW are not.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Sept 12, 2018 11:13:48 GMT
I don't know what you people are talking about.
No one has made a new movie in any of those franchises for over twenty-five years!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2018 12:21:41 GMT
Toss in the the Predator franchise too. Such a simple concept that Hollywood can't get right after the first film. I agree, but on a personal level I'd leave Predator 2 out of the bad list. It expanded the lore and set up the cross-series potential with Alien (even if that never materialized into something of quality in the movies). Predators was meh, but I largely dislike that one because it started Hollywood's current obsession with the whole Hybrid/Super Predator nonsense that's carrying over into the new film.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Sept 12, 2018 12:27:56 GMT
Mr Plinkett's review at least provides bonus entertainment value besides the criticism itself, so it might be easier to digest, but even that is an hour-long video. Plinkett's Star Wars reviews are unequivocally better than the movies themselves. Every single one of them.Change my mind. Nah, Plinkett Awakens was just as bad as Hope Harder, and almost as plagiarized from earlier material. #sellouthacks The new one was also too apologist but at least they got back on track slightly. Now they're just like everyone else, waking up too late... and not #sellouthacks.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Sept 12, 2018 13:46:20 GMT
However, I'm waiting to see if the payoff - in terms of what Rey learns from him, and how his intervention in the standoff with the First Order impacts what happens next - is worthwhile in Episode 9 before I say definitively that I think it was a good or bad idea. In just that sentence you pointed out two more problems with TLJ: Payoff - there was very little of it in TLJ, to the point that many plot threads from TFA were simply ignored in favor of... I'm not sure what exactly. I thought the payoff was in Luke deciding to return to the fray (I loved the part where he pretends to brush some dirt off his shoulder after Ren has a gazillion missiles fired at him) and making sure that the rebellion survives. Also, while Ren is not exactly a sympathetic villain, he is proving to be a somewhat interesting one in deciding that he doesn't want anything more to do with the Jedi *or* the Sith. Seeing him turn against Snoke while remaining loyal to the dark side was something I didn't see coming. I guess my question here is - was Luke all that different, aside from his lineage as Anakin & Padme's son? He was a regular guy from Tatooine with no particular military background who nevertheless becomes adept with a lightsaber and mystical powers pretty quickly. He needs to learn about the Force and how to use it from Ben and Yoda, just as Rey finds out from her time with him that she doesn't understand it as well as she thought and that there's a reason for Ren's turn to the dark side. Both of them go through some hard fights and setbacks along the way. It eventually culminates in Luke's refusal to assassinate Palpatine, just as I suspect Rey will have some sort of big turning point in Episode 9. Is this all a bit cliched? Yes, but Star Wars in general is a bit cliched. At its best, it's melodrama and spectacle done well. I'll freely admit that maybe I'd change my mind if I watched the original trilogy, TFA, and TLJ back-to-back. I only saw TLJ once, and it's been years since I've watched any of the others in full (as opposed to catching a few minutes on TV here and there).
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Post by Iakus on Sept 12, 2018 14:37:30 GMT
I dunno what you're talking about an "Alien franchise" There were only two of them...
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Post by Iakus on Sept 12, 2018 14:40:54 GMT
[quote timestamp="1536762671" author="@tzeenchianapostrophe" source="/post/1124587/thread"That's the thing, Luke's achievements are rather pathetic in comparison to Rey's. She defeated Ren multiple times, both with the Force AND in lightsaber combat dsepite the fact that he had decades of training under his belt, while she had basically nothing. She was barely even a novice. (she then proceeds to defeat Luke as well... ) Luke took quite a while to gain any kind of real ability with the Force, hell, he barely pulled a lightsaber to his hand under the threat of being eaten alive... While Rey did things on an entirely different scale in a much shorter timeframe. When Master Yoda lifted an X-Wing with the Force it was an awesome moment that showed what a true master of the Force is capable of. When Rey lifted a few tons of stones in order to save what remained of the survivors, she did it with an expression of boredom on her face. (consider, this happened around the same point in the story when Luke barely pulled a Lightsaber to his hand...)Suffice to say that I don't think that the two are even remotely comparable. I could provide more examples, the real challenge would be not to drown this thread in text.[/quote] At that point it had only been a few days since Rey learned she could use the Force AT ALL! You know, all things considered, I'll take Hope Harder over The Last Dumpster Fire any day. JJ Abrams, while lacking creativity, at least has some respect for Star Wars.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 12, 2018 14:42:28 GMT
I'm probably one of the very few people who thought Terminator: Not a Real Word was fairly decent. Could have been a good springboard to rebooting the franchise. I mean, they could have found better actors, but the concept was pretty cool.
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Post by Hier0phant on Sept 12, 2018 15:22:20 GMT
Toss in the the Predator franchise too. Such a simple concept that Hollywood can't get right after the first film. I beg to differ personally. I thought P2 was an interesting idea that expanded the Predator lore a bit and that Predators was way better than it had any right to be with Brody knocking it out the park with a satisfying conclusive fight. This new one is trash though. I tried to give it a chance cause Thomas Jane, Keegan M. Key, Alfie Allen and a few others were in it but those trailers and how its being billed as some sort of action comedy.. fuck that shit. The original was fueled by the toughest and manliest motherfuckers at the time (Jesse The Body and Arnold Alone would have sold it) and now fast forward the only guy who has that aura about him is Jane. As for Star Whores, that shit's dead beyond dead. I loved its lore and the mythology surrounding the force and the sith but TLJ killed the whole series and my fandom for it. Let it burn. Ho-1 was trash aside from the Vader scenes, TFA had promise but I never quite got into Finn as much and it became completely invalidated with TLJ which was the thing to kill it off. That's the movie that told me "this isn't for you" so I kept it moving. Soylo didn't exist for me at all, and a 30 second clip of OG Maul still doesn't pique my interest. I was holding out hope for Ewan McGregor returning as Obi-Wan till they disrespected Billy Dee with Pando. Count me out.. I give Predator 2 credit for the lore it added during the ship sequence, and Danny Glover's casting but the new jack swing, Paul Verhoeven style dystopian setting just doesn't jive right with me due to how outlandish the gang war scenario was in comparison to the original's contra mission. Danny Glover being the titular Predator not the prey makes for a nice subversion but a regular cop chasing down, and taking out a blooded Yuatja (Xenomorph kill) is just too much. About Predators, the super predator concept was interesting at first but their creation has resulted in the species being simplified into the good guy, bad guy aylmao. The spoilers from The Predator (2018)'s suggests that we're in for an Independence Day 2 type of sequel based on this film's conclusion. The Predator franchise isn't far down the shitter like the other sci fi franchises but the potential sequel for this new film can easily push this series down into the septic tank. About NuWars i agree. Right now it only exists to push merchandise, and it's failing at that too.
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Post by Hier0phant on Sept 12, 2018 15:27:53 GMT
Toss in the the Predator franchise too. Such a simple concept that Hollywood can't get right after the first film. I agree, but on a personal level I'd leave Predator 2 out of the bad list. It expanded the lore and set up the cross-series potential with Alien (even if that never materialized into something of quality in the movies). Predators was meh, but I largely dislike that one because it started Hollywood's current obsession with the whole Hybrid/Super Predator nonsense that's carrying over into the new film. Agreed, and my dislike of hybrids is not contained to the Predator franchise alone, and hates how the concept had impacted the Jurassic Park franchise.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 12, 2018 15:35:24 GMT
[quote timestamp="1536762671" author="@tzeenchianapostrophe " source="/post/1124587/thread"That's the thing, Luke's achievements are rather pathetic in comparison to Rey's. She defeated Ren multiple times, both with the Force AND in lightsaber combat dsepite the fact that he had decades of training under his belt, while she had basically nothing. She was barely even a novice. (she then proceeds to defeat Luke as well... ) Luke took quite a while to gain any kind of real ability with the Force, hell, he barely pulled a lightsaber to his hand under the threat of being eaten alive... While Rey did things on an entirely different scale in a much shorter timeframe. When Master Yoda lifted an X-Wing with the Force it was an awesome moment that showed what a true master of the Force is capable of. When Rey lifted a few tons of stones in order to save what remained of the survivors, she did it with an expression of boredom on her face. (consider, this happened around the same point in the story when Luke barely pulled a Lightsaber to his hand...)Suffice to say that I don't think that the two are even remotely comparable. I could provide more examples, the real challenge would be not to drown this thread in text. At that point it had only been a few days since Rey learned she could use the Force AT ALL! You know, all things considered, I'll take Hope Harder over The Last Dumpster Fire any day. JJ Abrams, while lacking creativity, at least has some respect for Star Wars. [/quote][/div]
The very same happens in New Hope. She suddenly can mind control and use force telekinsis without any training whatsoever. Can pilot the M. Falcon right away. Doesn't she deflect bolter fire too? She is made from pure minichlorines. Daughter of the Gods. Descended into flesh. For whatever reason.
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Post by mybudgee on Sept 12, 2018 15:43:40 GMT
i would have said like Pounce above, but the last jedi changed my view , quite liked it. Go on... What exactly did you find so satisfying??
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 12, 2018 18:50:28 GMT
I can't really see how they can save SW without completely scrapping TLJ, and make a new SW IIIV. And since I'm certain they won't do that, Star Wars is a gone thing. It's dead and gone.
So I'd say SW is in worst shape. However, Terminator feels like it has run its course too.
Predator? Aliens? They can do anything with that. If they don't, it's just because lack of imagination and cowardice.
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Post by warden on Sept 12, 2018 18:55:46 GMT
I didn't know that Terminator and Alien existed. I may have some memory issues.
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Post by mybudgee on Sept 13, 2018 6:27:17 GMT
I can't really see how they can save SW without completely scrapping TLJ, and make a new SW IIIV. And since I'm certain they won't do that, Star Wars is a gone thing. It's dead and gone. So I'd say SW is in worst shape. However, Terminator feels like it has run its course too. Predator? Aliens? They can do anything with that. If they don't, it's just because lack of imagination and cowardice. Agreed on all points except for 1 The point about the "filmmakers" at Fox (Black, Scott, the Strause bros) having no balls is very accurate However, I disagree about Star Wars being totally dead. There's still life in that old bitch yet! JK SW will be okay soon... I hope
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Post by Alfonsedode on Sept 13, 2018 8:13:23 GMT
i would have said like Pounce above, but the last jedi changed my view , quite liked it. Go on... What exactly did you find so satisfying?? mostly the vilain, the actor and the writing associated. Quite original and interesting, at least far more than in the opus before where the only cool point (story wise) was the last scene with solo. The jedi stuff (books and temple scenes) are pretty funny too. Skywalker attitude and story is far less disney too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 12:03:37 GMT
Star Wars was good?
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Sept 13, 2018 12:13:55 GMT
I think it's worth mentioning that the first films from three of this thread's mentioned franchises were good entirely by accident.
If you've seen what the original Predator and Alien were going to look like, you know that they had to reshoot the movies to remove most appearances by the monster. JCVD in an orange lobster suit was arguably even worse than a guy in an obviously rubber penis.
And as far as the original Star Wars goes, the only really good dialogue was lifted entirely from the subtitles of "Hidden Fortress." The series didn't actually get a good writer until the sequels, when Lawrence Kasdan took over. I haven't seen them, but I bet TLJ would have been better received if they hadn't fired him from the series.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 12:39:12 GMT
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Post by CrutchCricket on Sept 13, 2018 13:46:41 GMT
However, I disagree about Star Wars being totally dead. There's still life in that old bitch yet! JK SW will be okay soon... I hope
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Post by Iakus on Sept 13, 2018 15:45:44 GMT
I can't really see how they can save SW without completely scrapping TLJ, and make a new SW IIIV. And since I'm certain they won't do that, Star Wars is a gone thing. It's dead and gone. There is a way to bring it back. An animated series of "alternate continuity" movies. They could start with this:
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 13, 2018 15:49:53 GMT
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