dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,683
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 30, 2018 7:11:08 GMT
I'm reading this book called "The Accidental Universe". The writer discusses the feeling of awe he had when he first saw Saturn through a telescope. He was awestruck by it, seeing a wonder of the universe. He talked of patterns that appear throughout nature. Here's one thing: Here's another: Then there's this: Then, finally, this: What's the point of this? The universe is a wonderful place full of beauty and wonder. What does FE give us? A tiny, flat nothing with a 30-mile concave dish to illuminate the sky and a 32-mile sphere (sphere??), both of which are 3000 miles up. You provide a small, nothing. Honestly, it gives us nothing to look forward to, nothing to learn, because we're trapped and have nowhere to go. What's the point?
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 30, 2018 8:19:34 GMT
I'm reading this book called "The Accidental Universe". The writer discusses the feeling of awe he had when he first saw Saturn through a telescope. He was awestruck by it, seeing a wonder of the universe. He talked of patterns that appear throughout nature. What's the point of this? The universe is a wonderful place full of beauty and wonder. What does FE give us? A tiny, flat nothing with a 30-mile concave dish to illuminate the sky and a 32-mile sphere (sphere??), both of which are 3000 miles up. You provide a small, nothing. Honestly, it gives us nothing to look forward to, nothing to learn, because we're trapped and have nowhere to go. What's the point? The point is that it's deeply uncomfortable for some people to suffer the Great Demotions as Carl Sagan termed them in Pale Blue Dot. It's humiliating to them to realize that our world is just like all the other worlds in our solar system, we're not even at the center of the solar system, the Sun is. The Sun isn't special, all of those other stars in the sky are their own Suns, possibly (likely, we know now) with their own worlds orbiting them. Our Sun isn't even in the center of our galaxy. And our galaxy isn't special either, there are more galaxies out there than there are stars in the Milky Way. Our galaxy isn't even in the center of the universe. And our universe might not even be the only one that exists! Well, certainly humans are special, right? Created especially by a divine presence? No, probably not. Just evolved from prior animals. And not even cognitively special, as more studies into the brains and thinking of our closest relatives continue to reveal. It's a lot for some people to take in. It's much more comforting to bathe in the idea that all of this is about us. In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, “This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed”? Instead they say, “No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.” - Pale Blue Dot
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 12:20:39 GMT
I'm reading this book called "The Accidental Universe". The writer discusses the feeling of awe he had when he first saw Saturn through a telescope. He was awestruck by it, seeing a wonder of the universe. He talked of patterns that appear throughout nature. What's the point of this? The universe is a wonderful place full of beauty and wonder. What does FE give us? A tiny, flat nothing with a 30-mile concave dish to illuminate the sky and a 32-mile sphere (sphere??), both of which are 3000 miles up. You provide a small, nothing. Honestly, it gives us nothing to look forward to, nothing to learn, because we're trapped and have nowhere to go. What's the point? The point is that it's deeply uncomfortable for some people to suffer the Great Demotions as Carl Sagan termed them in Pale Blue Dot. It's humiliating to them to realize that our world is just like all the other worlds in our solar system, we're not even at the center of the solar system, the Sun is. The Sun isn't special, all of those other stars in the sky are their own Suns, possibly (likely, we know now) with their own worlds orbiting them. Our Sun isn't even in the center of our galaxy. And our galaxy isn't special either, there are more galaxies out there than there are stars in the Milky Way. Our galaxy isn't even in the center of the universe. And our universe might not even be the only one that exists! Well, certainly humans are special, right? Created especially by a divine presence? No, probably not. Just evolved from prior animals. And not even cognitively special, as more studies into the brains and thinking of our closest relatives continue to reveal. It's a lot for some people to take in. It's much more comforting to bathe in the idea that all of this is about us. In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, “This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed”? Instead they say, “No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.” - Pale Blue Dot
Only today's science is a religion. Everyone believes the science presented on faith without looking into if the science we've been presented is true or not. So the question is, who's been bamboozled? Who's rejecting the evidence?
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 30, 2018 13:06:32 GMT
The point is that it's deeply uncomfortable for some people to suffer the Great Demotions as Carl Sagan termed them in Pale Blue Dot. It's humiliating to them to realize that our world is just like all the other worlds in our solar system, we're not even at the center of the solar system, the Sun is. The Sun isn't special, all of those other stars in the sky are their own Suns, possibly (likely, we know now) with their own worlds orbiting them. Our Sun isn't even in the center of our galaxy. And our galaxy isn't special either, there are more galaxies out there than there are stars in the Milky Way. Our galaxy isn't even in the center of the universe. And our universe might not even be the only one that exists! Well, certainly humans are special, right? Created especially by a divine presence? No, probably not. Just evolved from prior animals. And not even cognitively special, as more studies into the brains and thinking of our closest relatives continue to reveal. It's a lot for some people to take in. It's much more comforting to bathe in the idea that all of this is about us. In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, “This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed”? Instead they say, “No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.” - Pale Blue Dot
Only today's science is a religion. Everyone believes the science presented on faith without looking into if the science we've been presented is true or not. So the question is, who's been bamboozled? Who's rejecting the evidence? Have you ever dismantled you car's engine?
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 30, 2018 13:52:29 GMT
Another version of the above reasoning is this: “Religion is based on faith. Science is based on faith. So science is a religion.” (For those interested in the technical, this argument is invalid; it doesn’t matter if its premises are true. It is just like this argument: "All students carry backpacks; Professor X carries a backpack; So Prof. X is a student." Or: "Bill Gates is rich; Vladimir Putin is rich; So Gates is Putin." [Have you ever seen them together?] All arguments of this form commit the fallacy of “undistributed middle.” Any argument of this form fails to establish its conclusion.) www.google.ca/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/excellent-beauty/201710/is-science-religion%3famp
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 30, 2018 13:53:39 GMT
The prevalence of the “science is just a religion” view is shockingly large. I say “shockingly” because science and religion are nothing alike and in fact are locked in a bitter and deadly war for the minds of humans (see my previous PT blogs “The Ghost of Christmas Present,” and “Lord of the Flies”). Religion cannot cure a single disease. It cannot usefully explain a single physical fact: not where humans came from, not where life came from, not where the universe came from. Religion cannot explain volcanoes, earthquakes, thunderstorms, hurricanes, epidemics, allergies, birth defects, diseases, . . . nothing. Religion cannot usefully explain a single thing. Science, however, explains all these and a lot more. So how can any reasonable person think that science is a religion?
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 16:00:40 GMT
Only today's science is a religion. Everyone believes the science presented on faith without looking into if the science we've been presented is true or not. So the question is, who's been bamboozled? Who's rejecting the evidence? Have you ever dismantled you car's engine? Going to have to clarify because technology is not science. It's based off acquired science, but not science. My argument wasn't that science isn't 100%, because have already stated it's 100% true if observable and repeatable. But that the science we're presented with can be pseudoscience in disguise or is science we can't observe and repeat to verify for ourselves.
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 30, 2018 16:04:35 GMT
Have you ever dismantled you car's engine? Going to have to clarify because technology is not science. It's based off acquired science, but not science. My argument wasn't that science isn't 100%, because have already stated it's 100% true if observable and repeatable. But that the science we're presented with can be pseudoscience in disguise or is science we can't observe and repeat to verify for ourselves. Have you ever dismantled your car's engine?
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 16:09:18 GMT
Going to have to clarify because technology is not science. It's based off acquired science, but not science. My argument wasn't that science isn't 100%, because have already stated it's 100% true if observable and repeatable. But that the science we're presented with can be pseudoscience in disguise or is science we can't observe and repeat to verify for ourselves. Have you ever dismantled your car's engine? Not entirely, just some stuff I remember from high school automotive class, among other things.
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 30, 2018 16:22:51 GMT
Have you ever dismantled your car's engine? Not entirely, just some stuff I remember from high school automotive class, among other things. Well it's a regular car engine, right? Internal combustion and all that?
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 16:51:40 GMT
Not entirely, just some stuff I remember from high school automotive class, among other things. Well it's a regular car engine, right? Internal combustion and all that? Alright. I'm listening, go on.
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 30, 2018 16:55:18 GMT
Well it's a regular car engine, right? Internal combustion and all that? Alright. I'm listening, go on. Well you didn't answer the question. Does your car have an internal combustion engine?
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 16:58:43 GMT
Alright. I'm listening, go on. Well you didn't answer the question. Does your car have an internal combustion engine? Don't have a car anymore. But lets go with I don't know on my last car.
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 30, 2018 17:01:07 GMT
Well you didn't answer the question. Does your car have an internal combustion engine? Don't have a car anymore. But lets go with I don't know on my last car. Are you really gonna go with "I don't know"? If that's really where you wanna go, fine, but just out of curiosity, why don't you know?
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 17:14:07 GMT
Don't have a car anymore. But lets go with I don't know on my last car. Are you really gonna go with "I don't know"? If that's really where you wanna go, fine, but just out of curiosity, why don't you know? Because I haven't looked.
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 30, 2018 17:35:20 GMT
Are you really gonna go with "I don't know"? If that's really where you wanna go, fine, but just out of curiosity, why don't you know? Because I haven't looked. Right. What you're doing here is adopting a veneer of philosophical skepticism, but it's really just a cheap rhetorical device- you're cheating to try not to lose the argument. I say veneer because no one who does this in argumentation actually lives their lives as an epistemological skeptic - you'd never get out of bed. Of course there are all sorts of things you believe to be true, and you believe that assertion of that knowledge is justifiable- you believe that your breakfast isn't going to be poison when you eat it, you believe that your showerhead will cover you in water instead of acid, you believe that your computer won't explode when you turn it on, and you believe that your car runs on gasoline- and that gasoline is what's going to come out of the pump at the station. I'd wager good money that you didn't smell the fluid coming out every time you went to fill 'er up. You're just performing this song and dance as a way to avoid losing an argument. People arguing against you rely on things being true. If some things are true then some things must be false, and since your argument is full of things that are demonstrably false, rather than accept that they can be shown to be so you attack the very idea that knowledge of the truth is possible. It's the equivalent of a child flipping over the game board when they sense that their loss is unavoidable. Playing a game with someone who refuses to accept the possibility of defeat is an exercise in self-flagellation. Personally I'd rather just use the whip.
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 17:39:45 GMT
Because I haven't looked. Right. What you're doing here is adopting a veneer of philosophical skepticism, but it's really just a cheap rhetorical device- you're cheating to try not to lose the argument. I say veneer because no one who does this in argumentation actually lives their lives as an epistemological skeptic - you'd never get out of bed. Of course there are all sorts of things you believe to be true, and you believe that assertion of that knowledge is justifiable- you believe that your breakfast isn't going to be poison when you eat it, you believe that your showerhead will cover you in water instead of acid, you believe that your computer won't explode when you turn it on, and you believe that your car runs on gasoline- and that gasoline is what's going to come out of the pump at the station. I'd wager good money that you didn't smell the fluid coming out every time you went to fill 'er up. You're just performing this song and dance as a way to avoid losing an argument. People arguing against you rely on things being true. If some things are true then some things must be false, and since your argument is full of things that are demonstrably false, rather than accept that they can be shown to be so you attack the very idea that knowledge of the truth is possible. It's the equivalent of a child flipping over the game board when they sense that their loss is unavoidable. So you want me to believe in the spinning ball Earth without observable repeatable proof?
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 30, 2018 17:49:26 GMT
Right. What you're doing here is adopting a veneer of philosophical skepticism, but it's really just a cheap rhetorical device- you're cheating to try not to lose the argument. I say veneer because no one who does this in argumentation actually lives their lives as an epistemological skeptic - you'd never get out of bed. Of course there are all sorts of things you believe to be true, and you believe that assertion of that knowledge is justifiable- you believe that your breakfast isn't going to be poison when you eat it, you believe that your showerhead will cover you in water instead of acid, you believe that your computer won't explode when you turn it on, and you believe that your car runs on gasoline- and that gasoline is what's going to come out of the pump at the station. I'd wager good money that you didn't smell the fluid coming out every time you went to fill 'er up. You're just performing this song and dance as a way to avoid losing an argument. People arguing against you rely on things being true. If some things are true then some things must be false, and since your argument is full of things that are demonstrably false, rather than accept that they can be shown to be so you attack the very idea that knowledge of the truth is possible. It's the equivalent of a child flipping over the game board when they sense that their loss is unavoidable. So you want me to believe in the spinning ball Earth without observable repeatable proof? You’ve been shown repeatable proof. Your religious convictions prevent you from seeing or accepting them. Instead we get assertions about science not being proof enough for you because you seem to think claiming scientific evidence is suspect will make your own position stronger. Hint: it doesn’t.
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 17:54:26 GMT
So you want me to believe in the spinning ball Earth without observable repeatable proof? You’ve been shown repeatable proof. Your religious convictions prevent you from seeing or accepting them. Instead we get assertions about science not being proof enough for you because you seem to think claiming scientific evidence is suspect will make your own position stronger. Hint: it doesn’t. Strawmaning me, never said science is proof of nothing, but that science is 100% proof. And what's this repeatable proof, maybe I missed it.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 30, 2018 18:03:13 GMT
You’ve been shown repeatable proof. Your religious convictions prevent you from seeing or accepting them. Instead we get assertions about science not being proof enough for you because you seem to think claiming scientific evidence is suspect will make your own position stronger. Hint: it doesn’t. Strawmaning me, never said science is proof of nothing, but that science is 100% proof. And what's this repeatable proof, maybe I missed it. The stuff you keep calling “pseudoscience”. You just don’t bother trying to understand or repeat it because understanding isn’t your goal here. Out of curiosity, what would you expect to see if we were in fact on a globe?
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 18:09:46 GMT
Strawmaning me, never said science is proof of nothing, but that science is 100% proof. And what's this repeatable proof, maybe I missed it. The stuff you keep calling “pseudoscience”. You just don’t bother trying to understand or repeat it because understanding isn’t your goal here. Out of curiosity, what would you expect to see if we were in fact on a globe? I'd expect to see some Earth curvature. According to Earth curvature math, everyone should be able to witness Earth curvature for themselves.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 30, 2018 18:15:35 GMT
The stuff you keep calling “pseudoscience”. You just don’t bother trying to understand or repeat it because understanding isn’t your goal here. Out of curiosity, what would you expect to see if we were in fact on a globe? I'd expect to see some Earth curvature. According to Earth curvature math, everyone should be able to witness Earth curvature for themselves. How? Given our size and the size of the earth, how curved would you expect the horizon to be?
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 18:18:15 GMT
I'd expect to see some Earth curvature. According to Earth curvature math, everyone should be able to witness Earth curvature for themselves. How? Given our size and the size of the earth, how curved would you expect the horizon to be? The official curvature math is right there and it shows that curvature should be observable.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 30, 2018 18:20:28 GMT
How? Given our size and the size of the earth, how curved would you expect the horizon to be? The official curvature math is right there and it shows that curvature should be observable. No it doesn’t. That’s just an assertion
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 30, 2018 18:22:58 GMT
The official curvature math is right there and it shows that curvature should be observable. No it doesn’t. That’s just an assertion No, that's the ballers assertion, since there's no proof for Earth's radius either.
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