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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 15, 2019 2:05:24 GMT
In my daily life, I'm not concerned with the religious beliefs of others. I only care when it infringes upon my life and the religious right in the US does its best to do so. These atheist channels also counter claims that just don't add up to me. Even with them, at least they're arguing from conviction. I despise Jordan Peterson for changing the meaning of words in order to support his narrative. I couldn't agree more about the religious right, they have overstepped their bounds. A shame they were allowed to do so too because many of their leaders have no concern for anyone but themselves. They have turned religion into a corporation and have used it as a tool to further their own agenda while remaining in a tax-exempt status. They are at war with the scientific community because they know that science can discredit their claims and expose their falsehoods. Their defense against science has been faux-science and faux-news, using it as a means to confuse the public and villainize the science community. They have also pushed be bullshit science in schools and dumbed down the education system. I'm not saying all people with religious beliefs are bad, there are many decent people with religious beliefs, BUT to ignore the damage being caused by the fanatics, fundamentalists and just all around faux religions that are in it to con people and make a buck, that's irresponsible. And I REALLY have a hate on for those who hide behind religion to push their bigotry, biases and discriminatory practices. Religion is the bane of the human race.
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Post by lennybusker on Jan 15, 2019 2:06:56 GMT
40% religious adherence, 30% incredulity, 30% conspiracy minded (obvious from your path to FE through the alt-right pipeline. when you talked about starting with TLJ criticism I about died laughing). You know without any logical arguments to back it up, the heliocentric model is a religious belief in itself. One of the ways we do science is to come up with an explanation for an observable phenomenon, then test that explanation with further experiments or observations to find out if it holds true. Every single test of a heliocentric spherical earth holds true. We launch rockets into space based on it, we went to the moon based on it, we survey land based on it, we tunnel through mountains based on it, we have a GPS system based on it, we model the solar system based on it, and every single time it holds true. Have you ever used Stellarium? You can use it to predict what the sky should look like at a given position and given time of the year. Every time it works. Always! Ever used GPS? It's always in agreement with reality (shitty devices and buggy map software notwithstanding, lol). Ever used the ISS tracker to spot the station during a flyby? It works! I could go on, but it's pointless. The fact of the matter is every single scientific advancement that relies on the earth being round works.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jan 15, 2019 2:26:25 GMT
I can't show a thing that isn't there. I'm not claiming you're wrong about the earth being flat. I'm claiming you're wrong in believing the earth is flat. You're wrong because you hold this conclusion without being able to justify it. You keep telling people they need to prove the globe, but you also need to prove the flat earth. You don't hold your own beliefs to the same standard as you hold others (a common problem known as confirmation bias). I'm asking you to stop doing that. What evidence can you offer that the earth is flat? Lacking that evidence, why do you think the earth is flat? I open my eyes, walk to a beach and observe the horizon is flat. Grab some beach water in my palm and observe water always finds it's level. Then grab a comfy seat with cold brew in my hand and observe a boat vanish into the vanishing point of my perspective.
Now your turn, show me the next logical step toward your position. Go out to sea and look in all directions, and see that the horizon joins up all around you. In a circle. The vanishing point, by your own definition, is a fixed distance away from you. That's always a circle. The evidence you cite doesn't even support a flat earth. As for the water in your hand (or anywhere), what you see is the water being level. Level is not synonymous with flat. Your evidence supports that the water stays level, yes, but not flat. Both of the things you mention are consistent with both a flat earth and a globe. You've shown nothing conclusive.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 15, 2019 2:29:00 GMT
I open my eyes, walk to a beach and observe the horizon is flat. Grab some beach water in my palm and observe water always finds it's level. Then grab a comfy seat with cold brew in my hand and observe a boat vanish into the vanishing point of my perspective.
Now your turn, show me the next logical step toward your position. Go out to sea and look in all directions, and see that the horizon joins up all around you. In a circle. The vanishing point, by your own definition, is a fixed distance away from you. That's always a circle. The evidence you cite doesn't even support a flat earth. As for the water in your hand (or anywhere), what you see is the water being level. Level is not synonymous with flat. Your evidence supports that the water stays level, yes, but not flat. Both of the things you mention are consistent with both a flat earth and a globe. You've shown nothing conclusive. I've asked for the next logical step toward your position.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jan 15, 2019 2:29:50 GMT
Don't you know? It's space magic! Light being seen from light years away is space magic according to the inverse square law of light. How do you figure? This would just make the light extremely dim, which it is. The light wouldn't vanish. Also, your vanishing point argument is defeated by a telescope. If I point a telescope down the hallway, I absolutely CAN see the end. So with a bigger telescope, why can't I see China?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 15, 2019 2:42:37 GMT
They are at war with the scientific community because they know that science can discredit their claims and expose their falsehoods. Their defense against science has been faux-science and faux-news, using it as a means to confuse the public and villainize the science community. They have also pushed be bullshit science in schools and dumbed down the education system. I'm actually in the middle of writing a story set in the Mass Effect universe that says most of Earth's religions were destroyed with the discovery of extraterrestrial life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 2:56:13 GMT
They are at war with the scientific community because they know that science can discredit their claims and expose their falsehoods. Their defense against science has been faux-science and faux-news, using it as a means to confuse the public and villainize the science community. They have also pushed be bullshit science in schools and dumbed down the education system. I'm actually in the middle of writing a story set in the Mass Effect universe that says most of Earth's religions were destroyed with the discovery of extraterrestrial life. I can see that since many religions like to push the whole one god, one world attitude. Extraterrestrial life would mean that there isn't only "one" world now, would it. Also, it could be considered that our ancients were either influenced by aliens or that our ancestors may have come from another planet. Either scenario would put a big hole in what religions teach. But then I doubt religion started as nothing more than a means to control and influence the public, anyway.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 15, 2019 3:15:39 GMT
I'm actually in the middle of writing a story set in the Mass Effect universe that says most of Earth's religions were destroyed with the discovery of extraterrestrial life. I can see that since many religions like to push the whole one god, one world attitude. Extraterrestrial life would mean that there isn't only "one" world now, would it. Also, it could be considered that our ancients were either influenced by aliens or that our ancestors may have come from another planet. Either scenario would put a big hole in what religions teach. But then I doubt religion started as nothing more than a means to control and influence the public, anyway. 👆This.
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Post by Sifr on Jan 15, 2019 6:39:06 GMT
So...fan of the franchise, the concept or Arnie? Yes.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 15, 2019 12:54:50 GMT
Was reluctant to share this video, but it's what everyone in the community seems to be talking about. This Owen Benjamin starts a stream and was asking chat for good arguments to prepare for a debate with a flat Earther.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 15, 2019 19:27:14 GMT
Live debate between Conspiracy Catz and Ranty Flat Earth in 3 minutes.
EDIT - it's a fakeout. A real Conspiracy Catz VS Ranty Flat Earth would have been epic.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 15, 2019 21:36:54 GMT
Soundly (a baller) live stream and chat will be live in 82 minutes for anyone interested.
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Post by lennybusker on Jan 15, 2019 22:03:13 GMT
Living proof that Youtube rots your brain.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 16, 2019 1:35:25 GMT
Living proof that Youtube rots your brain. And a day ago thought I ran into your doppelganger. Oh don't get it twisted, I have zero interest in the nonsensical, objectively untrue claims of a flat earth. I am interested in the psychology of those who do believe it though. No better place to learn the psychology of those then infiltrating their live YouTube hangouts community where the audience can live chat.
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Post by lennybusker on Jan 16, 2019 2:00:02 GMT
Living proof that Youtube rots your brain. And a day ago thought I ran into your doppelganger. Oh don't get it twisted, I have zero interest in the nonsensical, objectively untrue claims of a flat earth. I am interested in the psychology of those who do believe it though. No better place to learn the psychology of those then infiltrating their live YouTube hangouts community where the audience can live chat. really super duper not interested in listening to a group of drooling baboons sitting around on skype howling nonsense at each other. but it's just funny to me that you guys all seem to do the same thing. when presented with an argument that's difficult for you to respond to due to the depths of your incredulity you stammer out "uh uh uh just watch this youtube video it explains everything!" Apparently writing out an idea in your own words is something quite difficult for FE'ers. You've done better than most of them in that regard but then again that's probably just due to thread length at this point, you seem to go about 40/60 in favor of linking someone else's nonsensical youtube ramblings.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 16, 2019 2:41:02 GMT
And a day ago thought I ran into your doppelganger. No better place to learn the psychology of those then infiltrating their live YouTube hangouts community where the audience can live chat. really super duper not interested in listening to a group of drooling baboons sitting around on skype howling nonsense at each other. but it's just funny to me that you guys all seem to do the same thing. when presented with an argument that's difficult for you to respond to due to the depths of your incredulity you stammer out "uh uh uh just watch this youtube video it explains everything!" Apparently writing out an idea in your own words is something quite difficult for FE'ers. You've done better than most of them in that regard but then again that's probably just due to thread length at this point, you seem to go about 40/60 in favor of linking someone else's nonsensical youtube ramblings. What argument is too difficult to respond?
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Post by lennybusker on Jan 16, 2019 20:51:37 GMT
really super duper not interested in listening to a group of drooling baboons sitting around on skype howling nonsense at each other. but it's just funny to me that you guys all seem to do the same thing. when presented with an argument that's difficult for you to respond to due to the depths of your incredulity you stammer out "uh uh uh just watch this youtube video it explains everything!" Apparently writing out an idea in your own words is something quite difficult for FE'ers. You've done better than most of them in that regard but then again that's probably just due to thread length at this point, you seem to go about 40/60 in favor of linking someone else's nonsensical youtube ramblings. What argument is too difficult to respond? Take your pick, I haven't seen you give an honest rebuttal to any argument in the thread. It's always link to some nonsense youtube video, pick a random logical fallacy from a hat, or just ignore.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 16, 2019 21:54:47 GMT
Also, your vanishing point argument is defeated by a telescope. If I point a telescope down the hallway, I absolutely CAN see the end. So with a bigger telescope, why can't I see China? So how can we go about verifying or falsifying this China claim?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 17, 2019 5:05:52 GMT
Also, your vanishing point argument is defeated by a telescope. If I point a telescope down the hallway, I absolutely CAN see the end. So with a bigger telescope, why can't I see China? So how can we go about verifying or falsifying this China claim? Get out a telescope and look. If you can't see China, Russia, Japan, Thailand, the Czech Republic, etc...then you can verify or falsify the claim. Based on your own claims that round Earth can't be substantiated because we can't go into space to view ourselves, this is something that can be done. Get a telescope. Look. You make the extraordinary claim that the Earth is other than what we have long known to be true. Therefore, the burden is on you to get out a telescope and look. Give us video evidence of what you see. Either see China or see the ice wall.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jan 17, 2019 6:14:23 GMT
I've asked for the next logical step toward your position. My position is that direct evidence supports no conclusion, so I draw none. I remain at the only rational default position (the one held by infants), complete and total uncertainty. As long as the evidence is consistent with more than one model, no conclusion is warranted.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jan 17, 2019 6:18:44 GMT
Also, your vanishing point argument is defeated by a telescope. If I point a telescope down the hallway, I absolutely CAN see the end. So with a bigger telescope, why can't I see China? So how can we go about verifying or falsifying this China claim? We can test it. Find a place with an identifiable object at the horizon/vanishing point when viewed with the naked eye. Look at it with telescopes of varying strengths (or just one telescope as long as it's substantially stronger than binoculars (most commercially available telescopes are refractors, while most homemade telescopes are relfectors - either should work as long as it can focus well). If you can see past the object to objects beyond it with the telescope, then it truly was a vanishing point and not a horizon. If you cannot see any further, then it's a horizon.
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Post by lennybusker on Jan 17, 2019 6:53:52 GMT
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Post by Sifr on Jan 17, 2019 8:45:11 GMT
Also how are the stars in the Southern Hemisphere different from those found in the Northern Hemisphere? If the Earth was indeed flat, wouldn't a powerful enough telescope still be able to view stars from both hemispheres at any point on the Earth?
If the Earth is flat, why can't us Northerners see the Southern Cross and why can't Australians see Polaris?
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 17, 2019 9:06:14 GMT
Also, your vanishing point argument is defeated by a telescope. If I point a telescope down the hallway, I absolutely CAN see the end. So with a bigger telescope, why can't I see China? So how can we go about verifying or falsifying this China claim? We can falsify this China claim with one picture. Sylvius the MadObjects in foreground appear larger then objects in background. So even with the claim that a powerful enough telescope could see China, China would be obscured by all the foreground objects that precede it.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 17, 2019 9:23:45 GMT
Only appears to set due to perspective. ^ In this 20 second clip, zooming on apparent sunset brings it back up into the sky because it's just an illusion that it sets. For another video demonstration of sunsets and perspective; ^ Timestamped to relevant point, but stick around for an additional minute or two to see sun time lapses of this in action. And if you use a drone to get high enough; ^ You actually see sun fade into the distance before it appear to set due to perspective.
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