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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 29, 2018 15:52:53 GMT
I'm fascinated as to how you don't see Alistair, Morrigan, and Cassandra as "not plot relevant" to their games. Without Cassandra starting the Inquisition and Solas' meddling necessitating an Inquisition in the first place, the third game has no plot. And as far as I remember, you can't stop Morrigan from joining, making her and Alistair the only non-optional companions. I don't understand how they'd not be the most plot relevant either. Didn't all other options aside from the male ryder x Cora get way less attention anyhow? I remember the joke being something along the lines of: "Arh! That is where the budget went!" Yes, her animations, especially her romance scene, got the most budget, but pre-patch no other group got close to how little and low quality content m/m romances got. You could easily recreate Reyes and Gil in the CC, that's how little thought went into their design.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 29, 2018 15:53:10 GMT
Reading that Alistair, Cass or Morrigan are not plot-relevant characters is why I have the half of this thread blocked. yeah like they werent mandatory that you can skip like every single lgbt character in DA. Seriously the sealioning is so hard that stinks. Meh. Anyway. Plot relevant lgbt characters that you cant skip and mandatory, that's what I want, for once, I dont care if the character is a she or a he. Iron Bull is my favorite and he's not plot-relevant. DA does a better job than ME mind you, but this is one thing that a so-called lgbtq friendly franchise still doing, Leliana and Zev both can be said to go fuck themselves, and both can be killed, DA2 doesnt count for obvious reasons, Dorian, Sera, Bull are optional to join the Inquisition, and Josephine is not a companion sadly. The starter and always mandatory companions? Make them bi or gay.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 15:55:35 GMT
Plot relevance, to me, is a combination of the following:
* Mandatory involvement in the "main" storyline * Their motivations and/or needs drive the story in some way * High profile, lots of screentime
If you have some combination of these (2 or 3 of them), then you are plot relevant in some way.
Alistair has all three. Morrigan has all three. Cassandra has all three. Liam has two of the three (mandatory involvement in the main storyline and lots of screentime). Reyes has two of the three (mandatory involvement in the main storyline and his motivations drive the main plot).
I suppose looking at it objectively, I say that both Liam and Reyes have limited plot relevance. I certainly wouldn't say that Reyes has more plot relevance than Liam given how little he's actually in the game. But I could see how one could come to the decision that he is plot relevant in some way.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 29, 2018 15:58:06 GMT
Plot relevance, to me, is a combination of the following: * Mandatory involvement in the "main" storyline * Their motivations and/or needs drive the story in some way * High profile, lots of screentime If you have some combination of these (2 or 3 of them), then you are plot relevant in some way. Alistair has all three. Morrigan has all three. Cassandra has all three. Liam has two of the three (mandatory involvement in the main storyline and lots of screentime). Reyes has two of the three (mandatory involvement in the main storyline and his motivations drive the main plot). I suppose looking at it objectively, I say that both Liam and Reyes have limited plot relevance. I certainly wouldn't say that Reyes has more plot relevance than Liam given how little he's actually in the game. But I could see how one could come to the decision that he is plot relevant in some way. Indeed, it's not just how much a character affects the world and the story, but how much screentime they get. Though I guess in that sense, we could just talk about relevancy, instead of plot relevancy.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 29, 2018 16:02:50 GMT
I'm gonna sign 'plot relevancy' up as a term that makes no sense to me along with many other, I suppose.
Considering all of the characters past a specific point was easily ignoreable for me, thus not relevant at all.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 29, 2018 16:49:45 GMT
So guys, since there is still a long time between we get actual info, is there any game with romance you are waiting to play or know info? Playing POE2 right now because I had to stop due college and waiting for all the dlcs to be released. Tekehu is everything I wanted lol buff, tol, blue, furry, non-human, kinky, handsome, good boi also he talks about past male lovers too so Bioware should learn some from Obsidian. recently finished DOS2 and Fane was really sweet boi (although Sebille got glitched and ruined my whole gay immersion as usual with female characters lol) I bought Technomancer last year but I couldnt play it yet, hope I can soon. I have my eyes on Pathfinder Kingmaker but the only gay m/m option is kinda problematic, he is in a relationship with Octavia (they are in the verge of break up tho) and if you only choose him Octavia is killed which is utter bullshit since both live if you are in a poly relationship or you dont romance any of them Regongar is still the hottest one tho imo lol you marry him so thats sweet, the fact Octavia has to die is what I'm most angry about Have Greedfall in my wishlist and I hope we can get news soon. And I need to revisit my canon MET, DAI and Skyrim characters again lol I need a Hyperbolic Time Chamber to do all this lol I dont want to give CDPR my money since their transphobic bullshit and hate first person games so C2077 depends on how they treat lgbtq companions, but I will probably buy it second hand if I want to play it.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 29, 2018 17:01:49 GMT
In fantasy, I definitely prefer non-humans over humans if given the choice (ESPECIALLY if the player character is forced to be human)... though there are some human LIs I really like (Morrigan, Isabela, Dorian). Part of that is novelty, as in, this is something you'd never get to experience in real life, so why not here? And part of that is that qunari are huge (and sexy), elves are lithe (and sexy), dwarves are strong (and sexy). Lolol no shame. And humans are balanced in these traits....and thus sexy
Also, you might look for short stocky human, tall skinny human, or extremely tall and muscular human even in RL. The selection is more limited, sure, but it is actually *is* something you can experience IRL. And if it's alien enough to not qualify as human anymore, most likely you wouldn't be interested in the first place.
Naahhh. I mean, I could theoretically go out and find dozens of drastically different-looking people to date irl, but I'm not gonna. And I still find elves and dwarves and qunari better looking than any of the humans. 😋 As for being "too" alien... you underestimate me. Vetra and Garrus, pls and thanks.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 29, 2018 17:06:32 GMT
As for being "too" alien... you underestimate me. Vetra and Garrus, pls and thanks. well already knew that but fitting meme anyhow
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Post by Ieldra on Dec 29, 2018 18:47:28 GMT
And humans are balanced in these traits....and thus sexy
Also, you might look for short stocky human, tall skinny human, or extremely tall and muscular human even in RL. The selection is more limited, sure, but it is actually *is* something you can experience IRL. And if it's alien enough to not qualify as human anymore, most likely you wouldn't be interested in the first place.
Naahhh. I mean, I could theoretically go out and find dozens of drastically different-looking people to date irl, but I'm not gonna. And I still find elves and dwarves and qunari better looking than any of the humans. 😋 As for being "too" alien... you underestimate me. Vetra and Garrus, pls and thanks. Don't get me started on sexual relations with non-humans in SF settings
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 29, 2018 19:33:29 GMT
As for being "too" alien... you underestimate me. Vetra and Garrus, pls and thanks. well already knew that but fitting meme anyhow We're two of a kind, friendo. 😋 Naahhh. I mean, I could theoretically go out and find dozens of drastically different-looking people to date irl, but I'm not gonna. And I still find elves and dwarves and qunari better looking than any of the humans. 😋 As for being "too" alien... you underestimate me. Vetra and Garrus, pls and thanks. Don't get me started on sexual relations with non-humans in SF settings I won't, 'cause then I'll be like.....
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Post by Lady Artifice on Dec 29, 2018 19:42:51 GMT
To resound a point already made, bisexuality and player-sexuality arent the same thing. This is mostly imprtant if you care about being clear with what you want and don't want. Some people, like me, find player-sexuality vaguely unseemly while hoping for numerous bisexual characters. ...We also tend to find the suggestion that four out of 8 people in a group being bisexual is ludicrous to be dumb and slightly infuriating. So, there's that. To be honest unless you have a specific character arc like Dorian that requires explicit sexuality i'm very much i favour of player sexuality from a choice perspective. I don't find the notion of getting a different experience with a character in a different universe(playthrough) as being unseemly. Okay, noted. I still do though.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2018 19:50:58 GMT
@daveliam
In a world, where the "laws" are wrong, the "lawful" can't be "good". In such a world, the "good" is who works against the law.
Oh it's my problem. I really can imagine a knight, who protect the people against the law – but s/he must break the law.
Or we speak about the "Universal" law? But if the mortal law against this "Universal" law, then the lawbreaking is a virtue. (And sometimes very bloody.)
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Post by Lady Artifice on Dec 29, 2018 20:03:32 GMT
Plot relevance, to me, is a combination of the following: * Mandatory involvement in the "main" storyline * Their motivations and/or needs drive the story in some way * High profile, lots of screentime If you have some combination of these (2 or 3 of them), then you are plot relevant in some way. Alistair has all three. Morrigan has all three. Cassandra has all three. Liam has two of the three (mandatory involvement in the main storyline and lots of screentime). Reyes has two of the three (mandatory involvement in the main storyline and his motivations drive the main plot). I suppose looking at it objectively, I say that both Liam and Reyes have limited plot relevance. I certainly wouldn't say that Reyes has more plot relevance than Liam given how little he's actually in the game. But I could see how one could come to the decision that he is plot relevant in some way. Whereas someone like Zevran could be seen as a very minor boss fight and left alone, or killed, outside of that.
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Post by leadintea on Dec 29, 2018 20:24:41 GMT
Are there any homos that aren't absolutely obsessed with KISAs? My god, any other concepts you'd allow for DA4 in terms of m/m romances/characters? KISA is super limiting lol. The whole KISA thing started because people were tired, and rightfully so, of LGBT characters in Bioware games (most media, unfortunately) typically being roguish, outsiders, promiscuous, or morally dubious and wanted an archetype that didn't fall into one of those. Of course, there are many archetypes that aren't KISAs that fall under the 'lawful good' spectrum, and I would honestly prefer a nerdy scholar type character like Bram Kenric from Jaws of Hakkon, a healer/medic, or a fair-minded chantry member over the KISA, personally.
EDIT: Formatting
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 29, 2018 20:32:38 GMT
I thought this would be fun..... how would you like to meet these theoretical LIs? I seem to have a habit of falling for characters who are actively killing or beating up baddies. And Morrigan, who just saunters in.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 29, 2018 20:42:23 GMT
Are there any homos that aren't absolutely obsessed with KISAs? My god, any other concepts you'd allow for DA4 in terms of m/m romances/characters? KISA is super limiting lol. The whole KISA thing started because people were tired, and rightfully so, of LGBT characters in Bioware games (most media, unfortunately) typically being roguish, outsiders, promiscuous, or morally dubious and wanted an archetype that didn't fall into one of those. Of course, there are many archetypes that aren't KISAs that fall under the 'lawful good' spectrum, and I would honestly prefer a nerdy scholar type character like Bram Kenric from Jaws of Hakkon, a healer/medic, or a fair-minded chantry member over the KISA, personally. Like with any other strange born-in-recent-year labeling. You'd have to have a pretty clear definition of what a KISA is, because it seems that it differes a lot. Not to mention preferences for specific archetypes as you personally pointed out. One could argue, though, that Dorian was a... I fret to use LGTB, but... LGTB scholarly type of love interest, was he not? Then again, when are they actually scholarly? I'll try and sit quietly in the background and hope for the tyupical "sexy bitch" love interest for straight male characters, that said, this love interest does not necessarily have to be straight herself, but at the very least bisexual.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 29, 2018 20:43:06 GMT
I thought this would be fun..... how would you like to meet these theoretical LIs? I seem to have a habit of falling for characters who are actively killing or beating up baddies. And Morrigan, who just saunters in. Imagine meeting Fenris again as a love interest in Tevinter
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 29, 2018 20:48:48 GMT
I thought this would be fun..... how would you like to meet these theoretical LIs? I seem to have a habit of falling for characters who are actively killing or beating up baddies. And Morrigan, who just saunters in. Fenris is my favorite first contact lol I would like something awkward or dorky, I'm very basic I know. Alistair's is very dull despite being my favorite romance, and Bull's is just smash and greet. Isabela's is quite sexy but that's me wanting a male Isabela for ages.
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Post by leadintea on Dec 29, 2018 20:50:04 GMT
The whole KISA thing started because people were tired, and rightfully so, of LGBT characters in Bioware games (most media, unfortunately) typically being roguish, outsiders, promiscuous, or morally dubious and wanted an archetype that didn't fall into one of those. Of course, there are many archetypes that aren't KISAs that fall under the 'lawful good' spectrum, and I would honestly prefer a nerdy scholar type character like Bram Kenric from Jaws of Hakkon, a healer/medic, or a fair-minded chantry member over the KISA, personally. Like with any other strange born-in-recent-year labeling. You'd have to have a pretty clear definition of what a KISA is, because it seems that it differes a lot. Not to mention preferences for specific archetypes as you personally pointed out. One could argue, though, that Dorian was a... I fret to use LGTB, but... LGTB scholarly type of love interest, was he not? Then again, when are they actually scholarly? I'll try and sit quietly in the background and hope for the tyupical "sexy bitch" love interest for straight male characters, that said, this love interest does not necessarily have to be straight herself, but at the very least bisexual. Ugh, I knew someone was going to bring up Dorian! He may be a scholar, but I felt like he talked mostly about Tevinter, with a few off hand comments scholarly things, than actually getting real into the nitty-gritty of any scholarly topic, at least from what I remember. Plus, I didn't care for his personality. I want someone nerdy and shy, not catty and sarcastic.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 29, 2018 20:53:53 GMT
Like with any other strange born-in-recent-year labeling. You'd have to have a pretty clear definition of what a KISA is, because it seems that it differes a lot. Not to mention preferences for specific archetypes as you personally pointed out. One could argue, though, that Dorian was a... I fret to use LGTB, but... LGTB scholarly type of love interest, was he not? Then again, when are they actually scholarly? I'll try and sit quietly in the background and hope for the tyupical "sexy bitch" love interest for straight male characters, that said, this love interest does not necessarily have to be straight herself, but at the very least bisexual. Ugh, I knew someone was going to bring up Dorian! He may be a scholar, but I felt like he talked mostly about Tevinter, with a few off hand comments scholarly things, than actually getting real into the nitty-gritty of any scholarly topic, at least from what I remember. Plus, I didn't care for his personality. I want someone nerdy and shy, not catty and sarcastic.
Someone like Milo?
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 29, 2018 20:55:26 GMT
Are there any homos that aren't absolutely obsessed with KISAs? My god, any other concepts you'd allow for DA4 in terms of m/m romances/characters? KISA is super limiting lol. The whole KISA thing started because people were tired, and rightfully so, of LGBT characters in Bioware games (most media, unfortunately) typically being roguish, outsiders, promiscuous, or morally dubious and wanted an archetype that didn't fall into one of those. Of course, there are many archetypes that aren't KISAs that fall under the 'lawful good' spectrum, and I would honestly prefer a nerdy scholar type character like Bram Kenric from Jaws of Hakkon, a healer/medic, or a fair-minded chantry member over the KISA, personally.
EDIT: Formatting
Yeah the more I hear about this, the harder time I have really understanding. Because things like '' roguish, outsider, promiscuous, morally dubious '' are either very neutral things outside of morally dubious, which is pretty much a given character trait in a dark fantasy game. I understand wanting masculine gay characters, and wanting gay characters to be more heroic than not, but outside of that it's all just very irrelevant in terms of making gay characters. It's not to say KISA is totally out of my interests, but we just had Dorian, and outside of having his own opinion on slavery, he is pretty much a goody-goody. I don't want another goody-goody gay male again, and that's what KISA's seem to be.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 29, 2018 20:55:29 GMT
I thought this would be fun..... how would you like to meet these theoretical LIs? I seem to have a habit of falling for characters who are actively killing or beating up baddies. And Morrigan, who just saunters in. Imagine meeting Fenris again as a love interest in Tevinter I don't think that'll happen..... Maybe meeting him a slave-hunter or a slave, but he won't be a romance again. I thought this would be fun..... how would you like to meet these theoretical LIs? I seem to have a habit of falling for characters who are actively killing or beating up baddies. And Morrigan, who just saunters in. Fenris is my favorite first contact lol I would like something awkward or dorky, I'm very basic I know. Alistair's is very dull despite being my favorite romance, and Bull's is just smash and greet. Isabela's is quite sexy but that's me wanting a male Isabela for ages. LOL. Yeaaah his awkward giggle is great (tho that's at the second meeting, after he shoves his fist through a slaver's heart 😍).
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 29, 2018 20:56:16 GMT
Like with any other strange born-in-recent-year labeling. You'd have to have a pretty clear definition of what a KISA is, because it seems that it differes a lot. Not to mention preferences for specific archetypes as you personally pointed out. One could argue, though, that Dorian was a... I fret to use LGTB, but... LGTB scholarly type of love interest, was he not? Then again, when are they actually scholarly? I'll try and sit quietly in the background and hope for the tyupical "sexy bitch" love interest for straight male characters, that said, this love interest does not necessarily have to be straight herself, but at the very least bisexual. Ugh, I knew someone was going to bring up Dorian! He may be a scholar, but I felt like he talked mostly about Tevinter, with a few off hand comments scholarly things, than actually getting real into the nitty-gritty of any scholarly topic, at least from what I remember. Plus, I didn't care for his personality. I want someone nerdy and shy, not catty and sarcastic.
Yeah, I don't think Dorian talked much about any scholarly topics. I do think he was more concerned with Tevinter's history in the form of Corypheous being bad for the current existing Tevinter, and how Corypheous existing completely shattered Dorian's views on the Tevinter Imperium.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 21:00:22 GMT
@daveliam In a world, where the "laws" are wrong, the "lawful" can't be "good". In such a world, the "good" is who works against the law. Oh it's my problem. I really can imagine a knight, who protect the people against the law – but s/he must break the law. Or we speak about the "Universal" law? But if the mortal law against this "Universal" law, then the lawbreaking is a virtue. (And sometimes very bloody.) Well that's why I don't think "good" is necessary, personally. I think a lawful evil character that follows the same criteria that I mentioned could be argued to be a KISA type as well. Especially for an "evil" PC playthrough. I think this is different than a "Robin Hood" type, that is more 'chaotic good'. They perceive a problem with the laws and break them to do greater good. I see a difference between those two trope types. I'd like to see the former (personally, I'd like to see a lawful good type, but I could also go for a lawful neutral type as well). Plot relevance, to me, is a combination of the following: * Mandatory involvement in the "main" storyline * Their motivations and/or needs drive the story in some way * High profile, lots of screentime If you have some combination of these (2 or 3 of them), then you are plot relevant in some way. Alistair has all three. Morrigan has all three. Cassandra has all three. Liam has two of the three (mandatory involvement in the main storyline and lots of screentime). Reyes has two of the three (mandatory involvement in the main storyline and his motivations drive the main plot). I suppose looking at it objectively, I say that both Liam and Reyes have limited plot relevance. I certainly wouldn't say that Reyes has more plot relevance than Liam given how little he's actually in the game. But I could see how one could come to the decision that he is plot relevant in some way. Whereas someone like Zevran could be seen as a very minor boss fight and left alone, or killed, outside of that. Exactly. Zevran could be a minor boss fight and then killed. Leliana doesn't even have to be met. She's easily missed. And then there's Sera, Dorian, and Bull. All are optional. And only Dorian has any plot relevance (and that's really only in the mage path, too). I thought this would be fun..... how would you like to meet these theoretical LIs? I seem to have a habit of falling for characters who are actively killing or beating up baddies. And Morrigan, who just saunters in. I like the 'reluctant partner' approach where you are assigned to work together but it's not your choice at first. I also like the 'purposefully recruit a team of experts thing' where you seek out people because of what they can do for you. It's more of an ME2 thing, but I wouldn't mind seeing it in DA.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 29, 2018 21:01:52 GMT
Dorian was a big nerd (in a good way), interested in magical research, archiving, not a fan of the outdoors (especially the cold)... but I can see someone wanting someone who has that more at the forefront of their personality.
Like Safiya from NWN2. 😍 Scholarly, lonely, quiet Red Wizard with dubious morals?? Yes please.
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