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Post by Kaidan Fan on Nov 25, 2017 21:31:50 GMT
CrutchCricket Yes, next time I'm one I'll whip up a few more and send them your way. Ocelot KotFE is okay to play through once and I suggest a force user (it makes more sense that way, imo). It's not awful, but it's definitely not as good as previous stuff. @everyone else: Vector is still #1 
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Post by lilyenachaos on Nov 25, 2017 23:21:10 GMT
CrutchCricket Yes, next time I'm one I'll whip up a few more and send them your way. Ocelot KotFE is okay to play through once and I suggest a force user (it makes more sense that way, imo). It's not awful, but it's definitely not as good as previous stuff. @everyone else: Vector is still #1  Agreed! Although for me he and Aric are tied. Then again, Taris is my favorite planet so I've been told my opinion is all sorts of wrong.  |
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Post by Amirit on Nov 26, 2017 12:08:39 GMT
I started reading the Thrawn novel, which placed me in a Star Wars mood again, so I"m thinking of picking this game up again for a month or so, to replay a few class stories. How is the story going with KOTFE/KOTSOMETHING? The only real problem with KOTFE/... is that it's written for one class only - Jedi Knight. Other force users can look decent enough there but only if they are not following Emperor (no dark maniacs). To be fare this is the case starting from Revan expansion, but KOTFE is manifestation of "JK is the only protagonist" thing. So, if you play JK - it's all fine (well, if you do not (over)think the plot, of course). And well worth to go throw once. |
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Post by Lazarillo on Nov 26, 2017 15:08:55 GMT
I started reading the Thrawn novel, which placed me in a Star Wars mood again, so I"m thinking of picking this game up again for a month or so, to replay a few class stories. How is the story going with KOTFE/KOTSOMETHING? The only real problem with KOTFE/... is that it's written for one class only - Jedi Knight. Other force users can look decent enough there but only if they are not following Emperor (no dark maniacs). To be fare this is the case starting from Revan expansion, but KOTFE is manifestation of "JK is the only protagonist" thing. So, if you play JK - it's all fine (well, if you do not (over)think the plot, of course). And well worth to go throw once. No. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, **** no. KotFEET isn't even close to being written for the Knight. It's also not for only force users. The best fits are Consular, Smuggler, and Inquisitor. Everyone else is tied for second. The only people who should be claiming that the expansions were written for the Knight specifically are the ones with their heads so far up their posteriors from other EU content that they never actually payed attention to the original stories in this game, and the people who, similarly, bought into the all-hype-no-subtance portrayal of said Knight in their own story. |
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Post by The Twilight God on Nov 26, 2017 17:27:12 GMT
I started reading the Thrawn novel, which placed me in a Star Wars mood again, so I"m thinking of picking this game up again for a month or so, to replay a few class stories. How is the story going with KOTFE/KOTSOMETHING? The only real problem with KOTFE/... is that it's written for one class only - Jedi Knight. Other force users can look decent enough there but only if they are not following Emperor (no dark maniacs). To be fare this is the case starting from Revan expansion, but KOTFE is manifestation of "JK is the only protagonist" thing. So, if you play JK - it's all fine (well, if you do not (over)think the plot, of course). And well worth to go throw once. Not really. Without Kira or Scourge it's ruined. It SHOULD be his story, but they ruined that.
Bioware ruins everything they touch now.
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Post by The Twilight God on Nov 26, 2017 17:36:45 GMT
The only real problem with KOTFE/... is that it's written for one class only - Jedi Knight. Other force users can look decent enough there but only if they are not following Emperor (no dark maniacs). To be fare this is the case starting from Revan expansion, but KOTFE is manifestation of "JK is the only protagonist" thing. So, if you play JK - it's all fine (well, if you do not (over)think the plot, of course). And well worth to go throw once. No. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, **** no. KotFEET isn't even close to being written for the Knight. It's also not for only force users. The best fits are Consular, Smuggler, and Inquisitor. Everyone else is tied for second. The only people who should be claiming that the expansions were written for the Knight specifically are the ones with their heads so far up their posteriors from other EU content that they never actually payed attention to the original stories in this game, and the people who, similarly, bought into the all-hype-no-subtance portrayal of said Knight in their own story. Smuugler and Inquisitor? How so?
The issue is that only the Knight has immunity to Tenebrae's mind control so the start of KotFE makes no sense with anyone other than the Knight and MAYBE the BH (who may or may not be completely immune to that kind of stuff). He wouldn't need to ask anyone else to kneel.
If you are a darkside inquisitor your character is negated. All the force ghost are just gone. They couldn't even be bothered to address this in the Dream of Empire chapter in which they could have had Valkorian remove them. So it isn't a continuation.
Smuggler??? I'm really curious as to what brought you to that conclusion? If I was going to mention any non-force user (which I never would) I'd say the Agent just because of how big a role Scorpio plays. Tenebrae considers the smuggler to be his greatest foe? LOL!! What?!?
It is the Knight who is prophesized to defeat Tenebrae and take his throne. No one else. Only the Knight is set up as his direct nemesis. You fight the dude in one form or another in all 3 chapters. Based on class story the consular is a distant second.
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Post by Amirit on Nov 26, 2017 18:57:09 GMT
The only real problem with KOTFE/... is that it's written for one class only - Jedi Knight. Other force users can look decent enough there but only if they are not following Emperor (no dark maniacs). To be fare this is the case starting from Revan expansion, but KOTFE is manifestation of "JK is the only protagonist" thing. So, if you play JK - it's all fine (well, if you do not (over)think the plot, of course). And well worth to go throw once. No. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, **** no. KotFEET isn't even close to being written for the Knight. It's also not for only force users. The best fits are Consular, Smuggler, and Inquisitor. Everyone else is tied for second. The only people who should be claiming that the expansions were written for the Knight specifically are the ones with their heads so far up their posteriors from other EU content that they never actually payed attention to the original stories in this game, and the people who, similarly, bought into the all-hype-no-subtance portrayal of said Knight in their own story. Ghmm... Ooook... Have fun playing "smuggler - the most important person in the Universe, that orders around jedi and sith, and beats down Emperor - devourer of the galaxies". One can not argue with a true believer. |
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Post by Kaidan Fan on Nov 26, 2017 19:26:32 GMT
I've played through KotFE and KotET on all 8 classes. My favorite play through was on my Consular (maybe because she is my main and I have a soft spot for her  ) but the story was also good on the JK/Warrior/Inquisitor. On my smuggler/trooper/BH I kept feeling like "why am I here?" My Agent did feel a little better to play than those. But this is all just personal opinion and people can role play their character through the story any way they like. So even though I didn't much like the story on my non force users doesn't mean others can't/won't enjoy it. Even with that, my biggest problem was that the story was exactly the same no matter who you were playing through the story and it got extremely tedious and boring after the first couple times. |
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Post by The Twilight God on Nov 27, 2017 5:56:13 GMT
But this is all just personal opinion and people can role play their character through the story any way they like. So even though I didn't much like the story on my non force users doesn't mean others can't/won't enjoy it. You can enjoy it playing as a probe droid. No one is saying it cannot be enjoyable as any class (or a hypothetical droid). The issue is it makes no sense with most classes (or as a droid). That's just an objective fact.
My biggest problem is it effectively kills off 7 of 8 characters. Offscreen, no less. How undignified is that? Felled by Skytrooper #592 in a ditch somewhere? That's how Darth Nox, the Bar'senthor, the guy who defeated the Emperor, the Wrath, etc. met their end after all they surpassed?
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Post by Kaidan Fan on Nov 27, 2017 6:21:43 GMT
But this is all just personal opinion and people can role play their character through the story any way they like. So even though I didn't much like the story on my non force users doesn't mean others can't/won't enjoy it. You can enjoy it playing as a probe droid. No one is saying it cannot be enjoyable as any class (or a hypothetical droid). The issue is it makes no sense with most classes (or as a droid). That's just an objective fact.
My biggest problem is it effectively kills off 7 of 8 characters. Offscreen, no less. How undignified is that? Felled by Skytrooper #592 in a ditch somewhere? That's how Darth Nox, the Bar'senthor, the guy who defeated the Emperor, the Wrath, etc. met their end after all they surpassed?
Look, I don't like how it was handled and said as much in my post. I don't like that they killed off the other characters, I don't like that the story is more fit for a force user and I don't like that it's bland and repetitive. But don't get all "objective fact" on me. People can enjoy and or role play what they want and it's not up to me to decide it for them or tell them they're wrong if they do or don't. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 27, 2017 14:12:40 GMT
Your desire to cuck for that vapid cunt Kira is always inspirational. Japan was a mistake. A thousand weebs humping a thousand body pillows are still less in denial than you are. Give in to the proper glorious waifu. It's better here. No. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, **** no. KotFEET isn't even close to being written for the Knight. It's also not for only force users. The best fits are Consular, Smuggler, and Inquisitor. Everyone else is tied for second. The only people who should be claiming that the expansions were written for the Knight specifically are the ones with their heads so far up their posteriors from other EU content that they never actually payed attention to the original stories in this game, and the people who, similarly, bought into the all-hype-no-subtance portrayal of said Knight in their own story. wat |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 14:21:59 GMT
I don't get Kira's attraction either, because she subverts everything a Knight should stand for. I was hoping to play Obi Van Kenobi type character as a Knight, but both romances in the story are rather grotesque imo, both Doc and Kira. Theron and Benico in the second gen romances might make more sense, but still nowhere near what I was hoping for. I was so disappointed that the Sith Lord that you pick later in the story was not an LI - now that would have made a great romance. But playing an unattached Knight is probably the best anyway.  |
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Post by The Twilight God on Nov 27, 2017 15:54:14 GMT
You can enjoy it playing as a probe droid. No one is saying it cannot be enjoyable as any class (or a hypothetical droid). The issue is it makes no sense with most classes (or as a droid). That's just an objective fact.
My biggest problem is it effectively kills off 7 of 8 characters. Offscreen, no less. How undignified is that? Felled by Skytrooper #592 in a ditch somewhere? That's how Darth Nox, the Bar'senthor, the guy who defeated the Emperor, the Wrath, etc. met their end after all they surpassed?
Look, I don't like how it was handled and said as much in my post. I don't like that they killed off the other characters, I don't like that the story is more fit for a force user and I don't like that it's bland and repetitive. But don't get all "objective fact" on me. People can enjoy and or role play what they want and it's not up to me to decide it for them or tell them they're wrong if they do or don't. But it is an objective fact.
It makes no sense for a non-force user to be the protagonist for this story. Just like it makes no sense for a droid to be the Outlander. Or it makes no sense for anything save a pureblood or human to play sith warrior. Again, you can enjoy the game with any class/race. I never said you could not. Just pointing out that your enjoyment of something doesn't negate its lore inconsistency.
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Post by The Twilight God on Nov 27, 2017 16:07:55 GMT
I don't get Kira's attraction either, because she subverts everything a Knight should stand for. I was hoping to play Obi Van Kenobi type character as a Knight, but both romances in the story are rather grotesque imo, both Doc and Kira. Theron and Benico in the second gen romances might make more sense, but still nowhere near what I was hoping for. I was so disappointed that the Sith Lord that you pick later in the story was not an LI - now that would have made a great romance. But playing an unattached Knight is probably the best anyway. 
What should a Knight stand for? I thought it was protecting the weak and innocent from harm. You saying a Knight should stand for what... celibacy? That their purpose is to be a beacon for abstinence??? The Knight story doesn't really suffer from the romance. You are perfectly capable of being a hero. Obviously, if you choose that you're not an ideal Jedi. I look at him as a Jolee Bendu type. But that's a choice. You can choose to be the ideal Knight.
The Consular on the other hand feels like it was written to be the ideal Jedi. I could never play a Consular as anything but straight LS. The fast track to master almost demands it. As far as male romance is concerned I'm sorry but Nadia is a 13 year old. I don't care what the codex says. If you look like a kid, act like a kid, walk like a kid, talk like a kid... you're a kid. That's some hebephile nonsense.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 27, 2017 16:20:19 GMT
I don't get Kira's attraction either, because she subverts everything a Knight should stand for. That's a good thing. She snubs and disproves the rigid dogma of the Jedi while staying true to the ideals that make them worthy in the first place. We all know that the whole "thou shalt not marry thing" is complete bullshit. No one had the nerve to call Lucas on it in 2002 but you know it's true. Furthermore, Kira also disproves the hypocrisy of "once you go down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny"... except totally try to redeem every dark-sider you see. Kira is brash, impulsive non-reverent and that's not even getting into her backstory. Every Jedi who's a moron (mainly that Master Kaiden noob) wants to snub for being un-Jedi-like. And yet, apart from the Knight himself she's the only one that is able to throw off the Emperor's control. Granted, she wasn't fully indoctrinated as a Child of the Emperor, but still. By all rights she should've been an Anakin 3000 years before Anakin was even a thing. Yet she perseveres and ultimately becomes a champion of the light, while rejecting the unnecessary dogmatic elements of the Jedi.
I play my Knight as a perfect complement to that. He is entirely incorruptible. He is also entirely not having any of the Council's shit. Romance forbidden? Fuck that. Love may be one of the purest sources of light. Like anything, it can be misused and can cast some pretty deep shadows. But love is human and true harmony is the balance of all those aspects in the light, not denial of them. For all the Jedi's "attachment is forbidden bullshit", the strongest champions of the light either partook or were spawned from the very attachments they denounce (the line of Skywalker, the line of Revan and Bastila etc.). Yoda, Obi-wan and Mace Windu may be impressive, but ultimately they weren't the ones who saved the galaxy. They merely played their part. Maybe some do need to forgo attachments. But I like my attachments, thank you very much and I just curb-stomped the Emperor, who's not attached to anything but himself (never mind the KOTFE nonsense). |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 27, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
The Consular on the other hand feels like it was written to be the ideal Jedi. I could never play a Consular as anything but straight LS. The fast track to master almost demands it. As far as male romance is concerned I'm sorry but Nadia is a 13 year old. I don't care what the codex says. If you look like a kid, act like a kid, walk like a kid, talk like a kid... you're a kid. That's some hebephile nonsense.
Err... no. Nadia is sheltered. She is not a child. She is the same age as Vette, and Risha and actually a year older than Kira. Upbringing plays a large role. I have known people like that. I agree dark side doesn't make sense for the Consular though. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 16:41:20 GMT
I don't get Kira's attraction either, because she subverts everything a Knight should stand for. That's a good thing. She snubs and disproves the rigid dogma of the Jedi while staying true to the ideals that make them worthy in the first place. We all know that the whole "thou shalt not marry thing" is complete bullshit. No one had the nerve to call Lucas on it in 2002 but you know it's true. Furthermore, Kira also disproves the hypocrisy of "once you go down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny"... except totally try to redeem every dark-sider you see. Kira is brash, impulsive non-reverent and that's not even getting into her backstory. Every Jedi who's a moron (mainly that Master Kaiden noob) wants to snub for being un-Jedi-like. And yet, apart from the Knight himself she's the only one that is able to throw off the Emperor's control. Granted, she wasn't fully indoctrinated as a Child of the Emperor, but still. By all rights she should've been an Anakin 3000 years before Anakin was even a thing. Yet she perseveres and ultimately becomes a champion of the light, while rejecting the unnecessary dogmatic elements of the Jedi.
I play my Knight as a perfect complement to that. He is entirely incorruptible. He is also entirely not having any of the Council's shit. Romance forbidden? Fuck that. Love may be one of the purest sources of light. Like anything, it can be misused and can cast some pretty deep shadows. But love is human and true harmony is the balance of all those aspects in the light, not denial of them. For all the Jedi's "attachment is forbidden bullshit", the strongest champions of the light either partook or were spawned from the very attachments they denounce (the line of Skywalker, the line of Revan and Bastila etc.). Yoda, Obi-wan and Mace Windu may be impressive, but ultimately they weren't the ones who saved the galaxy. They merely played their part. Maybe some do need to forgo attachments. But I like my attachments, thank you very much and I just curb-stomped the Emperor, who's not attached to anything but himself (never mind the KOTFE nonsense). I do not consider Jedi tenants BS or nonsense. For me they are one authentic and original idea of the setting, but one that Lucas rendered badly in the movies, particularly in the cringeworthy dialogue by Anakin. I truly loved that glimpse in the mindset that has passed from the world of extreme individualism. I understand that very few people would have appreciated the ability to RP it & I am glad that Consular allowed me to do so. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 27, 2017 17:10:19 GMT
I do not consider Jedi tenants BS or nonsense. For me they are one authentic and original idea of the setting, but one that Lucas rendered badly in the movies, particularly in the cringeworthy dialogue by Anakin. I truly loved that glimpse in the mindset that has passed from the world of extreme individualism. I understand that very few people would have appreciated the ability to RP it & I am glad that Consular allowed me to do so. I don't think celibate monks are that original as for "authentic"... meh, if you say so. Personally I think Lucas wanted to make Anakin's main source of angst conflict interpersonal (which is a decent instinct to have when writing) but failed to actually make sense while doing so. And hey, you can RP whatever you want, but calling a romance grotesque is a little much. Unless Skadge was somehow romanceable I don't think the term applies. I wouldn't even call Jaesa grotesque and that's about as depraved as you get. Well, faux edgelord depraved, but hey, it's still a PG game lol. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 17:20:08 GMT
I do not consider Jedi tenants BS or nonsense. For me they are one authentic and original idea of the setting, but one that Lucas rendered badly in the movies, particularly in the cringeworthy dialogue by Anakin. I truly loved that glimpse in the mindset that has passed from the world of extreme individualism. I understand that very few people would have appreciated the ability to RP it & I am glad that Consular allowed me to do so. I don't think celibate monks are that original as for "authentic"... meh, if you say so. Personally I think Lucas wanted to make Anakin's main source of angst conflict interpersonal (which is a decent instinct to have when writing) but failed to actually make sense while doing so. And hey, you can RP whatever you want, but calling a romance grotesque is a little much. Unless Skadge was somehow romanceable I don't think the term applies. I wouldn't even call Jaesa grotesque and that's about as depraved as you get. Well, faux edgelord depraved, but hey, it's still a PG game lol. Doc's was grotesque for me. Kira's, well, if not grotesque, then very predictable and had an almost parody-like over-the-top vibe. Just imo, of course. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 27, 2017 17:40:52 GMT
Doc's was grotesque for me. Kira's, well, if not grotesque, then very predictable and had an almost parody-like over-the-top vibe. Just imo, of course. Doc should've been voices by Bruce Campbell. I think that's what they were going for. They probably couldn't get him. I've never seen the romance, wouldn't know what it's like. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 17:56:03 GMT
Doc's was grotesque for me. Kira's, well, if not grotesque, then very predictable and had an almost parody-like over-the-top vibe. Just imo, of course. Doc should've been voices by Bruce Campbell. I think that's what they were going for. They probably couldn't get him. I've never seen the romance, wouldn't know what it's like. I don’t know who Bruse Campbell is, but the romance and the character himself were off-putting to me from the start. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 27, 2017 18:16:17 GMT
I don’t know who Bruse Campbell is, but the romance and the character himself were off-putting to me from the start. Oh that definitely needs to be addressed  Bruce Campbell is the guy from Evil Dead/Army of Darkness. He's hilarious. He was also on Hercules/Xena as Autolycus, King of Thieves.  You can see the resemblance, right? |
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422
September 2016
thetwilightgod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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Post by The Twilight God on Nov 28, 2017 2:00:56 GMT
The Consular on the other hand feels like it was written to be the ideal Jedi. I could never play a Consular as anything but straight LS. The fast track to master almost demands it. As far as male romance is concerned I'm sorry but Nadia is a 13 year old. I don't care what the codex says. If you look like a kid, act like a kid, walk like a kid, talk like a kid... you're a kid. That's some hebephile nonsense.
Err... no. Nadia is sheltered. She is not a child. She is the same age as Vette, and Risha and actually a year older than Kira. Upbringing plays a large role. I have known people like that. I agree dark side doesn't make sense for the Consular though.
You did you not understand about, "I don't care what the codex says"?
It's like taking a 13 year old, putting her in stasis for 17 years, thawing her and saying, "Its cool, she's 30." Act like a kid. Look like a kid (that one is important). Talk like a kid. You're a kid in my book. I don't care what your drivers license says. If you're with a chick that looks and acts 13 I don't see the difference between being with an actual 13 year old. That's just not my thing personally.
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The Twilight God
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 422 Likes: 389
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Jun 24, 2018 15:34:45 GMT
389
The Twilight God
422
September 2016
thetwilightgod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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Post by The Twilight God on Nov 28, 2017 2:02:52 GMT
Doc should've been voices by Bruce Campbell. I think that's what they were going for. They probably couldn't get him. I've never seen the romance, wouldn't know what it's like. I don’t know who Bruse Campbell is, STOP!!!
Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!?!?!?
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Lazarillo
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January 2017
lazarillo
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
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Post by Lazarillo on Nov 28, 2017 4:12:54 GMT
Re: My choices for best Outlander candidate:
I have a whole little writeup I did on the official forums wayyyyyy back while KotFE was still ongoing, and I'm not really in a position to grab that again at the moment (nor do I really feel at the moment like re-writing it from scratch). If people are legitimately curious and all the various "what do you mean?" replies aren't of the patronizing variety, lemme know and I'd be happy to break it down further as to why those specific classes in a coupla days.
That said, it mostly comes down to achievement (not power, power levels are generally equitable in SWtOR and always have been), wit, and leadership, and the three classes I named are also the three classes that best embody those elements to me. Knight's little more than a brute, and I just don't see fighting the Emperor three times, losing twice, and picking up a stalemate once actually should be all that impressive to Valkorion.
Re: Knight romances:
I don't dislike Kira, although she does feel a little...vanilla (like much of the Knight story elements). Her romance was okay, though, not one of my favorite, but serviceable. My only real beef with it was there's no real way to turn her down without just quoting the Jedi code at her. I disliked that I couldn't suggest that she be herself, but that my character simply wasn't interested in that kind of relationship with her. It was all either "be mindful of attachments" or "we'll bang okay". Can't really comment on Doc, never got a Lady!Knight up that high. Although I'm stunned I never realized how much he really is a Bruce Campbell clone.
Re: Consular romances:
I'm a little less qualified to comment on Nadia, since, while I did do her romance arc, it was back near launch, and all my Consulars since then have been female (just don't care much for Nolan North's Consular voice), so I don't remember it very well (outside of the last romance letter, which seemed nice, and the fact that, thankfully, there are no options to take her up on comfort sex while her dad's body is still warm). I do think it's interesting that people give it flack due to Nadia's lack of maturity, but I also so frequently see people suggest Vaylin should have been romanceable. Granted, it might not be the same people. But Vaylin had the level of emotional maturity I might more commonly ascribe to an eight-year-old (and a poorly adjusted one, at that!). Even if it's not the same people, I still feel like it's weird to see the former stigmatized and the latter desired.
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) but the story was also good on the JK/Warrior/Inquisitor. On my smuggler/trooper/BH I kept feeling like "why am I here?" My Agent did feel a little better to play than those.
Be seeing you.
