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Cerberus is Humanity! Join us today and receive a limited edition commemorative pin!
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November 2016
10k
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by 10k on Mar 4, 2019 20:08:35 GMT
As far as character writing goes, I thought the characters in Anthem were a step above Andromeda. I really enjoyed Faye, more so than the rest. She's the only one that felt truly grounded in her emotions; there were never any unnecessary one liners with her. I enjoyed Haluk as well, though I thought his hostility towards the player felt really weak given the reason. I didn't even play the game and I can remember almost the entire main cast of characters. It is not like this with Andromeda; where I can only remember the names of PeeBee, and Cora. Peebee because she was annoying as hell, and Cora because she was the only character that seems truly fleshed out. Everyone else was forgetful.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 21:25:58 GMT
I haven't played Anthem, but I do have the impression that the serious to humour ratio has changed a bit more towards humour over time in BioWare's games. Dragon Age Origins seemed to be mostly grim with frequent moments of humour to lighten it, while Mass Effect Andromeda seemed mostly comedy with occasional serious moments. I have to disagree slightly that BioWare games have gradually turned from more serious to comedic over the time. I am not claiming that BW games haven't changed over the years, because they most certainly have. The assertion that BW games are same as they ever were is so caved in head stupid, that it's difficult to even argue against. Like if the argument is framed in a manner that "there's humor in every BW game, thus all of them are essentially the same, because none of them is totally devoid of comedy". This type of a total refusal to make quantitative or qualitative differences and distinctions between how much and what kind of, is either dishonest or osmium thick. Back to the original point, if we are looking at only one attribute (a humor or a lack thereof), I claim that there's no clear temporal trend observable in BW games. Baldur's Gate 1&2 are both at times incredibly lighthearted and comedic, Minsc is just the tip of the iceberg or the most extreme example of that. There's tons humorous companions, encounters, quest lines, scenes, companion interactions, items, dialog options, etc. E.g. BG1 has what 25 available companions, and I'd say that around 17 of them are at least sometimes played for laughs (some more than others). The formula is pretty straightforward but quite effective. They typically have couple defining characteristics, which are turned to such extremes that they occasionally come off as comedic*. BG 1&2 are not comedies, they have a plenty of serious and even melodramatic elements (especially the main story line in both). Regardless, the overall tone is a lot more lighthearted than let's say Dragon Age: Origins. Looking at the rest of the BW catalog, I'd say the least humorous BW games are DA:O and Mass Effect 1. Followed closely by KotOR. ME3 is kind of an odd bird, as the vanilla game is quite somber and solemn, but it has Citadel DLC (Leviathan was something in between, Omega I don't even really remember). DA2, ME2 and Jade Empire are clearly closer to BGs rather than to DA:O and ME1 in this regard. Ofc, there's legion of nuances about all of these games, which each could be analyzed ad infinitum (like how ME2 tone shifts considerably depending do you play full Paragon or Renegade. The former is quite straight, but the latter is more akin to an action comedy, although regardless of the style, there's much more levity compared to ME1). This evaluation is really broad strokes, and I am trying to illustrate another point by it. About Andromeda and Anthem (I haven't played the latter, but it seems to follow quite closely Andromeda's path), I'd say that they are a clear break off from the rest of BW's catalog. It's not exactly overabundance of humor and lightheartedness, because both BG2 and Andromeda can be described to be so, yet they are light years apart. It's more a qualitative difference of what kind of humor there is, how and why it is utilized and how it affects the overall experience. Actually I think, Anthem's and Andromeda's lack of seriousness, and quippyness is rather incidental. It's a manifestation of a deeper and more severe problem, rather than a source of them.
* Alora's death-defying optimism and cheerfulness. Coran's constant flirting and womanizing. Edwin's arrogance, egoism and machiavellianism. Eldoth's sleaziness and misogyny. Garrick is a lovesick fool. Jaheira's bossiness and nagging. Kagain's avarice and greed. Khalid is pussywhipped and nervous. Minsc's stupidity and monomania. Montaron's surliness. Quayle is a condescending smrt ass. Safana is a slut. Shar-teel is a militantly misandrist shrew. Skie is whiny and spoilt rotten. Tiax is an insane megalomaniac. Xan's melancholy and pessimism. Xzar's dissociative identity disorder.
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majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 4, 2019 22:05:32 GMT
So what happened? I mean lets have an honest conversation about this. Is it due to most of the old talent gone? Is it because Bioware is experimenting with new styles? Are they trying to recreate the ME3 Citadel DLC character vibe? Is it the MCU affect? I mean what is it? Bioware used to win awards in this category....
I think part of it is just Bioware following trends. But it's not just Bioware, juts look at Marvel, or the new set of Star Wars movies, it's everywhere.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind humor, I just hate humor for the sake or humor, especially when it doesn't fit the moment or scene.
Example, since I mentioned Star Wars. In the beginning of TLJ, the resistance in on the run, they're being decimated, and just when First Order is moving in the kill. You have the whole crank phone call bit. Corney, completely out of place, and the reference doesn't even fit the universe you're in. Then they tried to pivot back to some emotion when Rose's sister died dropping the bombs, but it just didn't work for me. This was comedy thrown in just for the sake of comedy whether it fit or not.
Another example from the same movie is when Leia scolds Poe and tells him that he has to think strategically and that everything can't be solved by getting in his X-wing and blasting everything. Then later on when they get attacked again he says permission to get in my X-wing a blast things. The humor fits here based on what happened earlier.
Bioware in the OT did more of the latter, whereas Andromeda did a lot more of the former. Just comedy thrown in for the sake of some comedy quota. Also, there were too many times when the only choices were professional and casual. Obviously you didn't want Ryder to sound like the long time vet, but the problem was that casual wasn't casual, it was humor. Corny humor a lot of the time. It should have been it;s own choice like sarcastic Hawke, and it would have worked fine.
This doesn't even count the times where you had no control over it.
Ok, so to play devils advocate.... ....what if I told you that the "comedy for sake of comedy" IS what the genric mainstream audience wants? I mean the MCU is FULL of this "comedy quota" stuff and yet no critic ever complains about it nor do the casual fans. Take the opening of Thor Ragnorok for example when Thor was captured in the chains. Completely out of place but the whole theater cracked up in laughs. Then you have movies that get torn apart because they didnt fill the comedy quota such as Man of Steel and BvS.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 7,936
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bshep
We destroy them or they destroy us.
4,444
August 2016
bshep
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Mar 4, 2019 22:19:37 GMT
There is only a handfull of characters who i could consider to be a comedy relief in the whole game. The overall tone in Anthem is more serious than Andromeda. The only ones who fit this classification are the bartender, Neeson (who was pretty much a Conrad Verner), the woman from the regulator store who talks about pets and the "sexy danger" freelancer. Sure there may be some humor in quests like the ones involving Brin or Mathias but it is mostly punctual, never dictating the whole tone of the story.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,869 Likes: 3,483
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ahglock
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Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Mar 4, 2019 22:31:11 GMT
I think part of it is just Bioware following trends. But it's not just Bioware, juts look at Marvel, or the new set of Star Wars movies, it's everywhere.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind humor, I just hate humor for the sake or humor, especially when it doesn't fit the moment or scene.
Example, since I mentioned Star Wars. In the beginning of TLJ, the resistance in on the run, they're being decimated, and just when First Order is moving in the kill. You have the whole crank phone call bit. Corney, completely out of place, and the reference doesn't even fit the universe you're in. Then they tried to pivot back to some emotion when Rose's sister died dropping the bombs, but it just didn't work for me. This was comedy thrown in just for the sake of comedy whether it fit or not.
Another example from the same movie is when Leia scolds Poe and tells him that he has to think strategically and that everything can't be solved by getting in his X-wing and blasting everything. Then later on when they get attacked again he says permission to get in my X-wing a blast things. The humor fits here based on what happened earlier.
Bioware in the OT did more of the latter, whereas Andromeda did a lot more of the former. Just comedy thrown in for the sake of some comedy quota. Also, there were too many times when the only choices were professional and casual. Obviously you didn't want Ryder to sound like the long time vet, but the problem was that casual wasn't casual, it was humor. Corny humor a lot of the time. It should have been it;s own choice like sarcastic Hawke, and it would have worked fine.
This doesn't even count the times where you had no control over it.
Ok, so to play devils advocate.... ....what if I told you that the "comedy for sake of comedy" IS what the genric mainstream audience wants? I mean the MCU is FULL of this "comedy quota" stuff and yet no critic ever complains about it nor do the casual fans. Take the opening of Thor Ragnorok for example when Thor was captured in the chains. Completely out of place but the whole theater cracked up in laughs. Then you have movies that get torn apart because they didnt fill the comedy quota such as Man of Steel and BvS. Could be. But I suspect there is a difference in what people want in a 2 hour burst vs a 40 hour stretch. Also for things like Superman. He’s just not a dark character so being dark and somber didn’t fit. I didn’t hear people complain about lack of comedy in the Batman movies, because it fit.
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ioannisdenton
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: Demis_Denton
Posts: 654 Likes: 844
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ioannisdenton
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August 2016
ioannisdenton
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Demis_Denton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Mar 5, 2019 10:59:03 GMT
Nah they were good enough. Its just we spend way less time with them and did not get them out in the field at all! They were constrained in the fort where the real game is outside. Faye was Great!
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Sah291
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Prime Posts: 1,240
Prime Likes: 1340
Posts: 862 Likes: 1,935
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Sah291 on Mar 5, 2019 13:01:05 GMT
Nah they were good enough. Its just we spend way less time with them and did not get them out in the field at all! They were constrained in the fort where the real game is outside. Faye was Great! They did get more interesting the more you talked to them, and especially as they developed their own little subplots. The quippy one liners are more prevalent at the very beginning of the game, when characters are first introduced, but then again there wasn't much story yet to ground them in. Some of the more interesting NPCs don't appear until later. I think there is a lot of potential there if they can continue to use them to reveal the lore and give them something to do.
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Little Bengel
N3
Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 954 Likes: 2,626
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2,626
Little Bengel
Partying like it's 1999
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February 2017
geminifreak
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 5, 2019 15:05:53 GMT
I haven't played Anthem, but I do have the impression that the serious to humour ratio has changed a bit more towards humour over time in BioWare's games. Dragon Age Origins seemed to be mostly grim with frequent moments of humour to lighten it, while Mass Effect Andromeda seemed mostly comedy with occasional serious moments. I have to disagree slightly that BioWare games have gradually turned from more serious to comedic over the time. I am not claiming that BW games haven't changed over the years, because they most certainly have. The assertion that BW games are same as they ever were is so caved in head stupid, that it's difficult to even argue against. Like if the argument is framed in a manner that "there's humor in every BW game, thus all of them are essentially the same, because none of them is totally devoid of comedy". This type of a total refusal to make quantitative or qualitative differences and distinctions between how much and what kind of, is either dishonest or osmium thick. Back to the original point, if we are looking at only one attribute (a humor or a lack thereof), I claim that there's no clear temporal trend observable in BW games. Baldur's Gate 1&2 are both at times incredibly lighthearted and comedic, Minsc is just the tip of the iceberg or the most extreme example of that. There's tons humorous companions, encounters, quest lines, scenes, companion interactions, items, dialog options, etc. E.g. BG1 has what 25 available companions, and I'd say that around 17 of them are at least sometimes played for laughs (some more than others). The formula is pretty straightforward but quite effective. They typically have couple defining characteristics, which are turned to such extremes that they occasionally come off as comedic*. BG 1&2 are not comedies, they have a plenty of serious and even melodramatic elements (especially the main story line in both). Regardless, the overall tone is a lot more lighthearted than let's say Dragon Age: Origins. Looking at the rest of the BW catalog, I'd say the least humorous BW games are DA:O and Mass Effect 1. Followed closely by KotOR. ME3 is kind of an odd bird, as the vanilla game is quite somber and solemn, but it has Citadel DLC (Leviathan was something in between, Omega I don't even really remember). DA2, ME2 and Jade Empire are clearly closer to BGs rather than to DA:O and ME1 in this regard. Ofc, there's legion of nuances about all of these games, which each could be analyzed ad infinitum (like how ME2 tone shifts considerably depending do you play full Paragon or Renegade. The former is quite straight, but the latter is more akin to an action comedy, although regardless of the style, there's much more levity compared to ME1). This evaluation is really broad strokes, and I am trying to illustrate another point by it. About Andromeda and Anthem (I haven't played the latter, but it seems to follow quite closely Andromeda's path), I'd say that they are a clear break off from the rest of BW's catalog. It's not exactly overabundance of humor and lightheartedness, because both BG2 and Andromeda can be described to be so, yet they are light years apart. It's more a qualitative difference of what kind of humor there is, how and why it is utilized and how it affects the overall experience. Actually I think, Anthem's and Andromeda's lack of seriousness, and quippyness is rather incidental. It's a manifestation of a deeper and more severe problem, rather than a source of them.
* Alora's death-defying optimism and cheerfulness. Coran's constant flirting and womanizing. Edwin's arrogance, egoism and machiavellianism. Eldoth's sleaziness and misogyny. Garrick is a lovesick fool. Jaheira's bossiness and nagging. Kagain's avarice and greed. Khalid is pussywhipped and nervous. Minsc's stupidity and monomania. Montaron's surliness. Quayle is a condescending smrt ass. Safana is a slut. Shar-teel is a militantly misandrist shrew. Skie is whiny and spoilt rotten. Tiax is an insane megalomaniac. Xan's melancholy and pessimism. Xzar's dissociative identity disorder. Reading this, I realize my knowledge of Bioware is severely limited by being born in the same year as BG1. My first experience with Bioware was through the Mass Effect trilogy (starting with ME2 in 2010), and then Dragon Age three years later. I'd like to try and break my head against a game like Baldur's Gate someday, though.
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Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 5, 2019 18:38:47 GMT
There is only a handfull of characters who i could consider to be a comedy relief in the whole game. The overall tone in Anthem is more serious than Andromeda. The only ones who fit this classification are the bartender, Neeson (who was pretty much a Conrad Verner), the woman from the regulator store who talks about pets and the "sexy danger" freelancer. Sure there may be some humor in quests like the ones involving Brin or Mathias but it is mostly punctual, never dictating the whole tone of the story. Yeah, for the most part, there's not a whole lot of quips to go around in Anthem. Haluk and Faye generally play it pretty straight, maybe having a lighthearted thing to say, but nothing ridiculous, and Owen was never really played up for laughs more than just having some personal quirks and mannerisms that made him awkward (Tassyn's response to him seemed pretty spot on). Brin is probably the only character consistently used for her gimmick as the really socially awkward character. I think Sayrna's real problem was that Kristen Schaal's voice really stands out and reminds people too much of Louise Belcher.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 5, 2019 18:54:44 GMT
Brin is probably the only character consistently used for her gimmick as the really socially awkward character. One of the reasons she is my favorite character in the game.
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Vortex13
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Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Vortex13 on Mar 5, 2019 18:56:43 GMT
Dax is the worst.
The amount of cringe and 'forced humor' whenever she speaks is like nails on a chalkboard.
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