flauntyquill
N2
May you always suck the jelly out of life's doughnut.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by flauntyquill on Apr 25, 2019 19:20:49 GMT
Obviously I wouldn't sell it or earn any money from it. I would post it on Nexus mods. You can download and play fan-made adventures from there. A DA4-game wouldn't have to be any different.
I think BW released the Toolkit just so fans could make their own content for DA:O so I'm not sure they would mind all that much if I did just that.
Mods aren't games. Once you go out and declare you're making a game you'll be treading a fine line. Just ask the Star Wars game fans that got cockblocked by Disney and EA. They might have a couple of wisdoms to share. If it's just a question of me using the wrong words, I'll re-phrase and instead of calling it "a game" I'll call it "a stand alone adventure" like the ones available on Nexus mod.
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Post by tatann on Apr 25, 2019 19:43:26 GMT
Now that the stream is done, can we declare time of death ? Nah, Chris Roberts has still ideas how to fix it. They should try that. Selling unreleased Javelins for 1000$ ?
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 25, 2019 20:19:28 GMT
Apart from the legal issues, you will not be able to do anything even approaching a "standalone adventure" with the modding tools available for any BW game from the 2010s. Look at what mods exist for ME3 for example, which is built with the very accessible and well documented UE3. These mods have to be generated by basically modifying the engine of the game directly after everything had already been baked (compiled), which requires using toolsets that modify game files in HEX (and building those toolsets themselves by decompiling game data and figuring out literally which byte does what). The guys who make those mods a frigging geniuses for getting as far as they did and they barely managed to modify existing maps to create something like an extra little level with some enemy spawns and that took them 6 years to figure out. (Mind you, I am not at all diminishing their accomplishments, quite the contrary, I want to emphasize how difficult it is to mod these games and thus how heroic their efforts are). And Frostbite is even worse, less documented, less accessible, less editable. If you ever looked at Frosty Editor, you'd realize why the mods that do exist for DA:I and ME:A are limited to mainly asset and variable edits. And that is already a hell of an accomplishment. Sorry to say but this is a delusion of grandeur. This is not Skyrim (and even for Skyrim which has one of the most powerful mod editors out there, 99% of total conversions either fail or are in limbo for years).
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flauntyquill
N2
May you always suck the jelly out of life's doughnut.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by flauntyquill on Apr 25, 2019 20:26:40 GMT
Apart from the legal issues, you will not be able to do anything even approaching a "standalone adventure" with the modding tools available for any BW game from the 2010s. Look at what mods exist for ME3 for example, which is built with the very accessible and well documented UE3. These mods have to be generated by basically modifying the engine of the game directly after every had already been baked (compiled), which requires using toolsets that modify game files in HEX (and building those toolsets themselves. The guys who make those mods a frigging geniuses for getting as far as they did and they barely managed to modify existing maps to create something like an extra little level with some enemy spawns and that took them 6 years to figure out. (Mind you, I am not at all diminishing their accomplishments, quite the contrary, I want to emphasize how difficult it is to mod these games and thus how heroic their efforts are). And Frostbite is even worse, less documented, less accessible, less editable. If you ever looked at Frosty Editor, you'd realize why the mods that do exist for DA:I and ME:A are limited to mainly asset and variable edits. And that is already a hell of an accomplishment. Sorry to say but this is a delusion of grandeur. This is not Skyrim (and even for Skyrim which has one of the most powerful mod editors out there, 99% of total conversions either fail or are in limbo for years).
Well, I still have ChoiceScript and its ilks. And I am totally okay with keeping the game, or whatever word I should use, to myself and my friends. It wouldn't be the first time I've made a text-based multi-choice game based on a fandom. I know I can't make them available to the gen pop. I just don't want to stand idly by while DA-verse sinks like a knackered lift together with BioWare.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 25, 2019 20:46:38 GMT
Well, I still have ChoiceScript and its ilks. And I am totally okay with keeping the game, or whatever word I should use, to myself and my friends. It wouldn't be the first time I've made a text-based multi-choice game based on a fandom. I know I can't make them available to the gen pop. I just don't want to stand idly by while DA-verse sinks like a knackered lift together with BioWare.
Yep, a text adventure or something like that sounds much more feasible as a fan project. I also doubt BW/EA would mind something like that much if you published it for free on the net, since it would be much closer to something like an interactive fan fiction. It's usually only when projects get to a certain scope that the IP owners get nervous. So I'd say go for it.
Didn't really want to try and shut you down there before either. Just trying to convey what would likely be involved in a project of even a small scope when it comes to those narrative driven games with high grade visuals and scripting. So whatever you decide to do, I wish you much luck and fun!
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 12:41:51 GMT
Apart from the legal issues, you will not be able to do anything even approaching a "standalone adventure" with the modding tools available for any BW game from the 2010s. Look at what mods exist for ME3 for example, which is built with the very accessible and well documented UE3. These mods have to be generated by basically modifying the engine of the game directly after every had already been baked (compiled), which requires using toolsets that modify game files in HEX (and building those toolsets themselves. The guys who make those mods a frigging geniuses for getting as far as they did and they barely managed to modify existing maps to create something like an extra little level with some enemy spawns and that took them 6 years to figure out. (Mind you, I am not at all diminishing their accomplishments, quite the contrary, I want to emphasize how difficult it is to mod these games and thus how heroic their efforts are). And Frostbite is even worse, less documented, less accessible, less editable. If you ever looked at Frosty Editor, you'd realize why the mods that do exist for DA:I and ME:A are limited to mainly asset and variable edits. And that is already a hell of an accomplishment. Sorry to say but this is a delusion of grandeur. This is not Skyrim (and even for Skyrim which has one of the most powerful mod editors out there, 99% of total conversions either fail or are in limbo for years).
Well, I still have ChoiceScript and its ilks. And I am totally okay with keeping the game, or whatever word I should use, to myself and my friends. It wouldn't be the first time I've made a text-based multi-choice game based on a fandom. I know I can't make them available to the gen pop. I just don't want to stand idly by while DA-verse sinks like a knackered lift together with BioWare.
That is somewhat selfish no?
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flauntyquill
N2
May you always suck the jelly out of life's doughnut.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: Faeryia
XBL Gamertag: flauntyQuill
Posts: 117 Likes: 226
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Post by flauntyquill on Apr 26, 2019 13:18:44 GMT
Well, I still have ChoiceScript and its ilks. And I am totally okay with keeping the game, or whatever word I should use, to myself and my friends. It wouldn't be the first time I've made a text-based multi-choice game based on a fandom. I know I can't make them available to the gen pop. I just don't want to stand idly by while DA-verse sinks like a knackered lift together with BioWare.
That is somewhat selfish no?
Maybe. But since I don't have my own domain anymore I can't host the story or make it available to anyone outside the people I e-mail with. The sites I know that hosts text-based games doesn't allow fandom-works only original ones.
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Post by armass81 on Apr 29, 2019 11:16:47 GMT
Im gonna say its already dead, the old Bioware that is. What they have is a zombified puppet under EAs strings they dangle in front of us, and try to grasp even some of the glory of the past.
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Post by vorchainteriordesign on May 8, 2019 18:51:21 GMT
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flauntyquill
N2
May you always suck the jelly out of life's doughnut.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by flauntyquill on May 15, 2019 9:19:40 GMT
I was one of those who declared BioWare dead the moment they presented the first teaser about Anthem. But after having actually played the game, I've changed my mind. Do I wish Anthem was a RPG more like Mass Effect and Dragon Age? Yes, I do. Do I think what little story there is in Anthem feels like a first draft? A resounding yes. Am I enjoying playing Anthem despite this? Yes, yes I am. I never thought I would enjoy mulitplayer but I am actually having fun. Trust me, no one is more surprised than me. In conclusion, I don't think Anthem in any way has killed BioWare. In fact, it's showed me that there's still some creative juices left. And I'm really curious to see what DA 4 will look like. Hopefully it will be a proper RPG though. One of the things I don't like in Anthem is how little impact I have on the story and the characters. Oh, and third person perspective please. Gotta have that for DA 4. Also, I wish BW would hurry up and release Anthem's Act 2. With no real dialogue options and no choices that impacts the story, there is really no replay value in the main story arc.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 15, 2019 11:37:14 GMT
I was one of those who declared BioWare dead the moment they presented the first teaser about Anthem. But after having actually played the game, I've changed my mind. Do I wish Anthem was a RPG more like Mass Effect and Dragon Age? Yes, I do. Do I think what little story there is in Anthem feels like a first draft? A resounding yes. Am I enjoying playing Anthem despite this? Yes, yes I am. I never thought I would enjoy mulitplayer but I am actually having fun. Trust me, no one is more surprised than me. In conclusion, I don't think Anthem in any way has killed BioWare. In fact, it's showed me that there's still some creative juices left. And I'm really curious to see what DA 4 will look like. Hopefully it will be a proper RPG though. One of the things I don't like in Anthem is how little impact I have on the story and the characters. Oh, and third person perspective please. Gotta have that for DA 4. Also, I wish BW would hurry up and release Anthem's Act 2. With no real dialogue options and no choices that impacts the story, there is really no replay value in the main story arc. They fumbled together MEA. They fumbled together Anthem. They rebooted DA4. I see a pattern of a company struggling. What good is creativity when they dont get the job done to create properly working games anymore?
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
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Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on May 15, 2019 14:53:52 GMT
I was one of those who declared BioWare dead the moment they presented the first teaser about Anthem. But after having actually played the game, I've changed my mind. Do I wish Anthem was a RPG more like Mass Effect and Dragon Age? Yes, I do. Do I think what little story there is in Anthem feels like a first draft? A resounding yes. Am I enjoying playing Anthem despite this? Yes, yes I am. I never thought I would enjoy mulitplayer but I am actually having fun. Trust me, no one is more surprised than me. In conclusion, I don't think Anthem in any way has killed BioWare. In fact, it's showed me that there's still some creative juices left. And I'm really curious to see what DA 4 will look like. Hopefully it will be a proper RPG though. One of the things I don't like in Anthem is how little impact I have on the story and the characters. Oh, and third person perspective please. Gotta have that for DA 4. Also, I wish BW would hurry up and release Anthem's Act 2. With no real dialogue options and no choices that impacts the story, there is really no replay value in the main story arc. They fumbled together MEA. They fumbled together Anthem. They rebooted DA4. I see a pattern of a company struggling. What good is creativity when they dont get the job done to create properly working games anymore? That depends, do players even want creativity in the first place?
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Post by Pounce de León on May 15, 2019 14:58:51 GMT
They fumbled together MEA. They fumbled together Anthem. They rebooted DA4. I see a pattern of a company struggling. What good is creativity when they dont get the job done to create properly working games anymore? That depends, do players even want creativity in the first place? Quite a few do, I guess.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 23, 2019 14:49:21 GMT
That depends, do players even want creativity in the first place? Quite a few do, I guess. Dedicated players do. The mainstream, maybe not. Then what is the issue? IMO it's that gaming has gotten too big and has to appeal to the widest audience, and because of that we gradually lost the finesse, care and emphasis on creativity even from companies that were defined by it such as BioWare.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 23, 2019 15:08:55 GMT
Dedicated players do. The mainstream, maybe not. Then what is the issue? IMO it's that gaming has gotten too big and has to appeal to the widest audience, and because of that we gradually lost the finesse, care and emphasis on creativity even from companies that were defined by it such as BioWare. I tend to buy smaller games now. "AA". The last AAA I bought was Anno 1800 and that is a bit niche too. I often still see interesting and creative concepts there. Maybe not at launch - but often I get games after they are already well-seasoned.
Of the big franchises I use basically nothing.
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Post by tatann on May 23, 2019 17:24:00 GMT
Dedicated players do. The mainstream, maybe not. Then what is the issue? IMO it's that gaming has gotten too big and has to appeal to the widest audience, and because of that we gradually lost the finesse, care and emphasis on creativity even from companies that were defined by it such as BioWare. I tend to buy smaller games now. "AA".
If not already done, I recommend you check at Focus catalog, they're quite good at "AA"
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Post by vorchainteriordesign on May 23, 2019 20:51:57 GMT
I tend to buy smaller games now. "AA".
If not already done, I recommend you check at Focus catalog, they're quite good at "AA" GAAAAH MAKE US USE GOOGLE?! WE WOULD ROAST YOU IF NOT FOR HELPFUL VALUE OF POST. AAAAARH, THIS ONE LIVES. ELCOR WILL THANK YOU, I CANNOT.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 24, 2019 11:13:52 GMT
That depends, do players even want creativity in the first place? Besides the flying, what was so creative about Anthem? And even that is not implemented in any special way.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 24, 2019 11:39:23 GMT
That depends, do players even want creativity in the first place? Besides the flying, what was so creative about Anthem? And even that is not implemented in any special way. Is buggy as heck. If not creative it's still bold to sell it with straight face.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
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PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on May 24, 2019 12:26:31 GMT
That depends, do players even want creativity in the first place? Besides the flying, what was so creative about Anthem? And even that is not implemented in any special way. The tarsis portions were unique in their 'BioWare way' so the attempt to marry up an interactive narrative with the gameplay portions was there. They apparently failed at it though as all the changes I've seen has limited the amount of time you actually stay in the fort now. Though my comment was less specific about Anthem, more general about the overall audience.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 24, 2019 12:55:17 GMT
The tarsis portions were unique in their 'BioWare way' so the attempt to marry up an interactive narrative with the gameplay portions was there. It wasn't something new, though. ToR already did that and in a far better way than Anthem did. Only difference was that Anthem limited you to a single town. Which was a bald move, no doubt, but arguably towards the wrong direction. Though my comment was less specific about Anthem, more general about the overall audience. I think people want creativity in new features and adding content and variety. If all the creativity goes into cutting corners, people are not going to be appreciative with the final product, regardless of developer.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
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Post by linksocarina on May 24, 2019 17:55:16 GMT
The tarsis portions were unique in their 'BioWare way' so the attempt to marry up an interactive narrative with the gameplay portions was there. It wasn't something new, though. ToR already did that and in a far better way than Anthem did. Only difference was that Anthem limited you to a single town. Which was a bald move, no doubt, but arguably towards the wrong direction. Though my comment was less specific about Anthem, more general about the overall audience. I think people want creativity in new features and adding content and variety. If all the creativity goes into cutting corners, people are not going to be appreciative with the final product, regardless of developer. True, though few games get away without cutting a corner just due to economics. For Anthem yes that was done before, but it was not done in a game in this genre, a looter shooter type of game. I guess my argument would be this is Bioware's take on a looter shooter, and it didn't work for various reasons,so they are flattening that out to be more standard but less unique. I don't know if that's the right move or not, but it is the safe move now so the game endures.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 25, 2019 11:58:41 GMT
True, though few games get away without cutting a corner just due to economics. I don't think Anthem quite "got away" with cutting corners. They sold their game on the fabricated premise of the 2017 demo and that carried them only that far. Which is quite, to be frank, but not enough, at the same time. For Anthem yes that was done before, but it was not done in a game in this genre, a looter shooter type of game. I don't think Anthem does narrative better than, say, Borderlands 2. The story is as railroaded in either game and about as entertaining. You could argue that the Lore of Anthem is deeper, but its potential is nowhere near realized, so I can't award points to someone for presenting the proverbial ball and not subtract them for dropping it, in equal measure. I guess my argument would be this is Bioware's take on a looter shooter, and it didn't work for various reasons,so they are flattening that out to be more standard but less unique. I don't know if that's the right move or not, but it is the safe move now so the game endures. Which will only help bury it further amidst the more established and expanded competition. I understand that Bioware could only do so much in the time, resources and material they had available, but in the current competitive gaming industry, it is not going to be enough. Bioware does not exist in a vacuum, with an infinite amount of people throwing money at their feet.
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Post by armass81 on May 29, 2019 23:16:59 GMT
I was one of those who declared BioWare dead the moment they presented the first teaser about Anthem. But after having actually played the game, I've changed my mind. Do I wish Anthem was a RPG more like Mass Effect and Dragon Age? Yes, I do. Do I think what little story there is in Anthem feels like a first draft? A resounding yes. Am I enjoying playing Anthem despite this? Yes, yes I am. I never thought I would enjoy mulitplayer but I am actually having fun. Trust me, no one is more surprised than me. In conclusion, I don't think Anthem in any way has killed BioWare. In fact, it's showed me that there's still some creative juices left. And I'm really curious to see what DA 4 will look like. Hopefully it will be a proper RPG though. One of the things I don't like in Anthem is how little impact I have on the story and the characters. Oh, and third person perspective please. Gotta have that for DA 4. Also, I wish BW would hurry up and release Anthem's Act 2. With no real dialogue options and no choices that impacts the story, there is really no replay value in the main story arc. They fumbled together MEA. They fumbled together Anthem. They rebooted DA4. I see a pattern of a company struggling. What good is creativity when they dont get the job done to create properly working games anymore? But that Bioware magic.... it will save us in the end...
Wont it?
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Post by elanor on Jun 1, 2019 8:14:00 GMT
I'm actually happy that Anthem is a bust after they ditched Andromeda for it. But I don't know if there is a point to having a hope that DA4 will be good...
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