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Post by slimgrin727 on Dec 22, 2019 19:37:45 GMT
Well it's Sapkowski's experience in post WW2 Poland that formed a lot of his ideas. He does draw from Slavic folklore for monsters and other things. His actual descriptions of architecture and outfits is not particularly slavic but the grim humor and fatalism are. i dunno what formed Sapek's ideas but i do know that, for instance, his depiction of the elves is deconstruction of the western fantasy literature's elves. So it just follows the way of western literature. In a way, the whole Witcher is just another take on the traditional western fantasy. and yes, there is some slavic monsters like stryga and kikimora but there's as many (if not more) non-slavic monsters (vampires, driadas, manticoras etc). most location names are non-slavic (the only distinctively slavic that comes to mind is Novigrad), an overwhelming majority of characters names are non-slavic (Emhyr, Vilgefortz, Triss, Ciri etc.) there is more Celtic and Germanic names and there is more Celtic and Germanic mythology in the Witcher than the Slavic one. Pretty much the only Slavic influence in the setting is a bunch of monsters and a couple of names. But let's face it, most people don't read/watch/play the Witcher for the sake of drowners, kikimoras, and strygas. as of "slavic grim humour and fatalism", i dont believe there's such thing as nationally-specific type of humour or fatalism. It sounds like some woodoo to me tbh. A nation's history does form the mindset of a people, and Poland was a punching bag for centuries. Nothing voodoo about it. I'm not sure why you're intent on minimizing the Slavic influences but they are there. Also, if it was 'just another take' on western fantasy the books wouldn't be so popular. He's almost always spinning the tropes in new ways.
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Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on Dec 22, 2019 19:49:36 GMT
i dunno what formed Sapek's ideas but i do know that, for instance, his depiction of the elves is deconstruction of the western fantasy literature's elves. So it just follows the way of western literature. In a way, the whole Witcher is just another take on the traditional western fantasy. and yes, there is some slavic monsters like stryga and kikimora but there's as many (if not more) non-slavic monsters (vampires, driadas, manticoras etc). most location names are non-slavic (the only distinctively slavic that comes to mind is Novigrad), an overwhelming majority of characters names are non-slavic (Emhyr, Vilgefortz, Triss, Ciri etc.) there is more Celtic and Germanic names and there is more Celtic and Germanic mythology in the Witcher than the Slavic one. Pretty much the only Slavic influence in the setting is a bunch of monsters and a couple of names. But let's face it, most people don't read/watch/play the Witcher for the sake of drowners, kikimoras, and strygas. as of "slavic grim humour and fatalism", i dont believe there's such thing as nationally-specific type of humour or fatalism. It sounds like some woodoo to me tbh. A nation's history does form the mindset of a people, and Poland was a punching bag for centuries. Nothing voodoo about it. I'm not sure why you're intent on minimizing the Slavic influences but they are there. Also, if it was 'just another take' on western fantasy the books wouldn't be so popular. He's almost always spinning the tropes in new ways. "mindset of people" is another voodoo shit tbh. Dafuq does that even mean? When they see a movie, Slavs cry at the scene Germans or Americans laugh at? i'm not minimizing slavic influence, i'm saying the Witcher is not slavic fantasy. It's a western fantasy with slavic elements, and that's it. These are two different matters. Do you have anything to say on my examples of Celtic and Germanic influences in the books? and when i said "just another take", i didnt mean anything derogative by it. By "just another take" I didnt mean "standard because average in quality", I rather meant "standard because there's many other deconstructions and subversions of western fantasy tropes". In other words, "many other takes" but the Sapkowski take, while standard in trying, is definitely good in execution.
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Post by aglomeracja on Dec 22, 2019 19:51:50 GMT
Well it's Sapkowski's experience in post WW2 Poland that formed a lot of his ideas. He does draw from Slavic folklore for monsters and other things. His actual descriptions of architecture and outfits is not particularly slavic but the grim humor and fatalism are. i dunno what formed Sapek's ideas but i do know that, for instance, his depiction of the elves is deconstruction of the western fantasy literature's elves. So it just follows the way of western literature. In a way, the whole Witcher is just another take on the traditional western fantasy. and yes, there is some slavic monsters like stryga and kikimora but there's as many (if not more) non-slavic monsters (vampires, driadas, manticoras etc). most location names are non-slavic (the only distinctively slavic that comes to mind is Novigrad), an overwhelming majority of characters names are non-slavic (Emhyr, Vilgefortz, Triss, Ciri etc.) there is more Celtic and Germanic names and there is more Celtic and Germanic mythology in the Witcher than the Slavic one. Pretty much the only Slavic influence in the setting is a bunch of monsters and a couple of names. But let's face it, most people don't read/watch/play the Witcher for the sake of drowners, kikimoras, and strygas. as of "slavic grim humour and fatalism", i dont believe there's such thing as nationally-specific type of humour or fatalism. It sounds like some woodoo to me tbh. Vampires are slavic too, and commoners are calling Dryads "dziwożony" (wild women en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dziwo%C5%BCona) although wrongly. In Witcher books it's quite common that monstered are refered to by different names, often commoners don't know what the "textbook" name for such monster is.
But you're right that there are many non slavic themes in the Witcher. When you read it in Polish, there's no doubt that most humans are based on slavs because of the language filled with archaic Polish words, dialects used in Polish rural areas etc. It's really well done, but probably most of it is lost in translation.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Dec 22, 2019 20:44:06 GMT
A nation's history does form the mindset of a people, and Poland was a punching bag for centuries. Nothing voodoo about it. I'm not sure why you're intent on minimizing the Slavic influences but they are there. Also, if it was 'just another take' on western fantasy the books wouldn't be so popular. He's almost always spinning the tropes in new ways. "mindset of people" is another voodoo shit tbh. Dafuq does that even mean? When they see a movie, Slavs cry at the scene Germans or Americans laugh at? i'm not minimizing slavic influence, i'm saying the Witcher is not slavic fantasy. It's a western fantasy with slavic elements, and that's it. These are two different matters. Do you have anything to say on my examples of Celtic and Germanic influences in the books? and when i said "just another take", i didnt mean anything derogative by it. By "just another take" I didnt mean "standard because average in quality", I rather meant "standard because there's many other deconstructions and subversions of western fantasy tropes". In other words, "many other takes" but the Sapkowski take, while standard in trying, is definitely good in execution. Fair enough, I see your point. This is making the rounds: Lol
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Post by Babar Guy on Dec 22, 2019 21:06:20 GMT
"mindset of people" is another voodoo shit tbh. Dafuq does that even mean? When they see a movie, Slavs cry at the scene Germans or Americans laugh at? i'm not minimizing slavic influence, i'm saying the Witcher is not slavic fantasy. It's a western fantasy with slavic elements, and that's it. These are two different matters. Do you have anything to say on my examples of Celtic and Germanic influences in the books? and when i said "just another take", i didnt mean anything derogative by it. By "just another take" I didnt mean "standard because average in quality", I rather meant "standard because there's many other deconstructions and subversions of western fantasy tropes". In other words, "many other takes" but the Sapkowski take, while standard in trying, is definitely good in execution. Fair enough, I see your point. This is making the rounds: Lol There's still plenty of time for him to be a monster. They already kind of revealed that he's not exactly the noble warrior mage that he's initially presented as. When that one wounded mage towards the end of the battle at Sodden was begging for his help he instead brutally crushed his skull with several mace blows. A mercy kill, it wasn't.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Dec 22, 2019 21:52:08 GMT
Ok...I gotta ask the book readers who have also played the games... are the book rock trolls anything like the TW3 ones? Cause if so then I'm really looking forward to seeing them in the show. I know I said Letho was my favorite game character, but I had forgotten about Bart the troll and the troll who was guarding the camp. The shoe trolls were pretty awesome too and the one making his stew and getting attacked by drowners. the rock trolls in the game.
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Post by Kabraxal on Dec 22, 2019 21:52:35 GMT
As someone that despises the books and games... I’m surprised I’m enjoying this series. Whoever the showrunner is seemed to understand that you don’t need to beat people over the heads with darkness, blood, and tits to be mature. It’s weird watching this and not being annoyed by terrible dark fantasy hamfistedness.
Though... who cast Trish? Awful choice. Does not feel like her at all.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Dec 22, 2019 22:10:22 GMT
As someone that despises the books and games... I’m surprised I’m enjoying this series. Whoever the showrunner is seemed to understand that you don’t need to beat people over the heads with darkness, blood, and tits to be mature. It’s weird watching this and not being annoyed by terrible dark fantasy hamfistedness. Though... who cast Trish? Awful choice. Does not feel like her at all. She's a good actress but yeah, I agree she was a bad choice for Triss. It's like she should've been the one playing Geralt's mom and the actress playing Geralt's mom should've been playing Triss. For me it's how old she looks, she doesn't seem young enough for the part.
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Post by aglomeracja on Dec 22, 2019 22:27:55 GMT
As someone that despises the books and games... I’m surprised I’m enjoying this series. Whoever the showrunner is seemed to understand that you don’t need to beat people over the heads with darkness, blood, and tits to be mature. It’s weird watching this and not being annoyed by terrible dark fantasy hamfistedness. Though... who cast Trish? Awful choice. Does not feel like her at all. Indeed surprising given that this series is really close to the source material except there's even more tits. Blood and darkness levels are about the same. Both books and games are dark fantasy, but not as dark as Game of Thrones for instance.
Ok...I gotta ask the book readers who have also played the games... are the book rock trolls anything like the TW3 ones? Cause if so then I'm really looking forward to seeing them in the show. I know I said Letho was my favorite game character, but I had forgotten about Bart the troll and the troll who was guarding the camp. The shoe trolls were pretty awesome too and the one making his stew and getting attacked by drowners. the rock trolls in the game. Trolls are only mentioned in the books, but never actually appear. Their depiction in games was purely CPR's invention as far as I know. It was pretty good though
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 22, 2019 23:30:27 GMT
As someone that despises the books and games... I’m surprised I’m enjoying this series. Whoever the showrunner is seemed to understand that you don’t need to beat people over the heads with darkness, blood, and tits to be mature. It’s weird watching this and not being annoyed by terrible dark fantasy hamfistedness. Ha, not ham fisted or beating over the head with that stuff. That’s a good one.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 23, 2019 0:01:02 GMT
I'll be checking it out tonight.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 23, 2019 0:22:49 GMT
you can't fucking end the last episode like that and then make me wait for a year or longer before there's more of this I thought the soundtrack was pretty good all around. Gave me TW3 feels at times. When I do get around to reading the books I'll have all the soundtracks queued up and ready to go.
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2019 0:29:22 GMT
Rotten tomatoes - critic score 57%, audience score 92% The disconnect between critics and general audiences in the movie industry is very, very real. Almost to the point where if you want to make a lot of money for your film one of the best things you can do is ignore critic advice (their snobbery of plot and the audiences desire for plot is just the tip of the iceberg for this.)
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2019 0:57:20 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Dec 23, 2019 1:28:42 GMT
The best advice I can give anyone creative...ignore EVERYONE
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 23, 2019 1:58:26 GMT
Yes, I'm aware of the clues. As I said, I've read the first few books. But you don't get the first real clue that they are time skipping back and forth until you're a few episodes in, which leaves it somewhat confusing in the moment. I knew Yenn's backstory had to happen long before the other storylines, but only because I'm familiar with the series. A newcomer would not know what was going on with the timeline until they caught one of those clues peppered in several episodes later. As far as the other two, since Freya/Ciri does not look 11/12, I thought they'd changed her story to occur at an older age. (It wasn't until near the end of the season where a line of dialogue lets you know her age.) And if they changed hers, why not mess with Geralt's timeline too? Until the episodes you mentioned, there was no indication as to when they'd intended Geralt's scenes to take place in relation to Ciri's or Yenn's. Knowing when they happen in the books doesn't mean they did the same thing in the show. I enjoyed the show overall, but I think they could have handled the time skips a lot better. Also, I think it would've helped if things were better explained in general. For instance when I watched the Striga curse episode, I was wondering if viewers that don't have some prior knowledge would even really understand what the heck is happening. Haha.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 23, 2019 2:36:14 GMT
I've only managed to finish up to ep 3, so far, but for those who've finished the season (or decided to stop watching), there is a new poll where you can give it a score. Original (will you watch?) poll archived in the OP.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Dec 23, 2019 4:57:51 GMT
As someone that despises the books and games... I’m surprised I’m enjoying this series. Whoever the showrunner is seemed to understand that you don’t need to beat people over the heads with darkness, blood, and tits to be mature. It’s weird watching this and not being annoyed by terrible dark fantasy hamfistedness. Though... who cast Trish? Awful choice. Does not feel like her at all. Indeed surprising given that this series is really close to the source material except there's even more tits. Blood and darkness levels are about the same. Both books and games are dark fantasy, but not as dark as Game of Thrones for instance.
Ok...I gotta ask the book readers who have also played the games... are the book rock trolls anything like the TW3 ones? Cause if so then I'm really looking forward to seeing them in the show. I know I said Letho was my favorite game character, but I had forgotten about Bart the troll and the troll who was guarding the camp. The shoe trolls were pretty awesome too and the one making his stew and getting attacked by drowners. the rock trolls in the game. Trolls are only mentioned in the books, but never actually appear. Their depiction in games was purely CPR's invention as far as I know. It was pretty good though It is dark, but yes it has a lighter side and it isn't as heavy as Game of Thrones...which is good, there were scenes that actually made me giggle a bit. Jeskier/Dandilion was good comic relief and there were times I anticipated when Geralt was going to mutter a frustrated "Fuck!" under is breath. So then, it sounds like there won't be any trolls in the show then...that makes me sad. The way they are depicted in the game is great and I was looking forward to maybe seeing one in the future. *sigh*
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 23, 2019 5:19:08 GMT
While the casting was spotty i think the show's weakness will be in it's choice of generic English architecture, and costume for it's identity over Polish inspired ones, or just it's entire budget in general. it's CD Project speaking in you. the show is based on the books which were never either Polish or Slavic fantasy. There's just a bunch of monsters from slavic folk tales, and that's it. most of the Witcher's names are either Celtic or German, the plot and the tropes are distinctively Western European (some king Arthur legend in action, too). I have no idea why people keep on calling The Witcher "slavic fantasy" or keep expecting some Slavic shite in there. I know that Sapowski's influences for the TW novels were pan european but the show is too generic in it's costume design and architecture, while visually it pulls more from English influences over other countries barring Nilfgaard. Having Polish and slavic visuals feature more prominently with the other european countries' irl styles corresponding to their inverse counterparts would make it more distinct from it's contemporaries.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 23, 2019 5:25:51 GMT
So about Cahir showing up Vilgefortz, and making him bleed. How does this make you feel?
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Post by Kabraxal on Dec 23, 2019 6:39:11 GMT
As someone that despises the books and games... I’m surprised I’m enjoying this series. Whoever the showrunner is seemed to understand that you don’t need to beat people over the heads with darkness, blood, and tits to be mature. It’s weird watching this and not being annoyed by terrible dark fantasy hamfistedness. Though... who cast Trish? Awful choice. Does not feel like her at all. Indeed surprising given that this series is really close to the source material except there's even more tits. Blood and darkness levels are about the same. Both books and games are dark fantasy, but not as dark as Game of Thrones for instance.
Ok...I gotta ask the book readers who have also played the games... are the book rock trolls anything like the TW3 ones? Cause if so then I'm really looking forward to seeing them in the show. I know I said Letho was my favorite game character, but I had forgotten about Bart the troll and the troll who was guarding the camp. The shoe trolls were pretty awesome too and the one making his stew and getting attacked by drowners. the rock trolls in the game. Trolls are only mentioned in the books, but never actually appear. Their depiction in games was purely CPR's invention as far as I know. It was pretty good though More tits yes... but the games reveled in blood and sex with no context while the books tried but failed to be more...... subtle. But the books are older and the foundation of modern dark fantasy so I hate it less for the non cliches (in its time) and more for poor writing/translation that fumbles the delivery. It’s definitely no SoIaF though... that series is a raging dumpster fire of overused cliches, sex, violence, and bad writing. Why CDPR tried to tack more towards that then the source I’ll never understand.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Dec 23, 2019 7:01:27 GMT
So about Cahir showing up Vigelfortz, and making him bleed. How does this make you feel? Makes zero sense. Vilge is one of the most powerful mages in the books. Geralt, Yen and Regis had to team up to fight him and Geralt still barely prevailed.
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Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on Dec 23, 2019 7:38:36 GMT
Ok...I gotta ask the book readers who have also played the games... are the book rock trolls anything like the TW3 ones? theres no detailed depiction of trolls in the books, nor is there any encounter with them. They're just briefly mentioned here and there.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 23, 2019 8:23:00 GMT
So about Cahir showing up Vigelfortz, and making him bleed. How does this make you feel? Makes zero sense. Vilge is one of the most powerful mages in the books. Geralt, Yen and Regis had to team up to fight him and Geralt still barely prevailed. It seems like Netflix's Cahir is a vet, and top tier swordsman and Vilgefortz was neutered in terms of his martial abilities while his magical prowess is still iffy. Mind you based on Cahir's showing Netflix's potential Leo will have to be a monstrous swordsman in order to offset Cahir's skill.
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Post by wickedcool on Dec 23, 2019 14:05:11 GMT
I liked it a lot. Needs some work -hedgehog guy looked like a broadway costume and the time jumping in each episode will be difficult for casual viewers
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