midnightwolf
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by midnightwolf on Aug 30, 2019 14:44:42 GMT
Benefactor or no?
I recently went back to MEA after two years, and I think all fingers point to him being at least involved. Your thoughts fellow Pathfinders.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 11:50:19 GMT
I could perhaps see him as having been recruited by the Benefactor to act as his eyes an ears aboard the Nexus. As a result, he might know who the Benefactor is, but I doubt that he is the Benefactor himself. From his conversations with Ryder, he just doesn't strike me as the sort of person who had that extensive personal wealth in the Milky Way. It's true the Benefactor likes to work from shadows (which is Reyes' way as well), but I think the Benefactor is at least a layer deeper into the shadows than Reyes. My money is still on Barla Von, who I believe departed the Milky Way on the Quarian Ark and is overheard giving instructions to those involved in finishing the work on that ark as they prepare to depart the Milky Way in haste as the Reapers close in. I think it's even possible that Barla Von is the real Shadow Broker, pretending to be just an agent after having appointed the Yahg Shadow Broker to be his token head of the operation. Liara, after becoming the Shadow Broker learns the truth but continues to protect Barla Von's true identity.
Barla Von disappears from the MEU after the coup. There are bullet holes behind where he was originally standing on the Presidium, but no mention of a body or that he was killed during the coup. However, if TIM (and Cerberus) got wind of him being the Shadow Broker or the Benefactor, that would have certainly made him a target. He may not have planned to be aboard the Quarian Ark, but his plans may have been changing due to the untimely arrival of the Reapers. He stays only long enough for Shepard to rescue a particular group of volus and then just escapes during the coup attempt to somehow get aboard the departing Quarian Ark. No one knows he's there yet since it wasn't part of the original plan....
I don't think the commerce link the Initiative was seeking to establish between the Milky Way and Andromeda is about resources. It's about information... setting up an instantaneous, lag free communications link between the two galaxies via quantum entanglement.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 31, 2019 18:27:28 GMT
I think the Benefactor is actually a group of people operating under a single alias, so Reyes could possibly be a member. If not that, then at least an operative for the Benefactor.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Sept 1, 2019 3:20:02 GMT
I just hope we get to find out for certain because it's in MEA2.  Hope springs and all that... |
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 1, 2019 3:23:22 GMT
No. It's the Shifty Space Cow...
... Or the Space Hamster.
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Post by Serza on Sept 2, 2019 19:47:51 GMT
Like it or not, there's a shitton pointing at the Illusive Man. I'd have to replay the game and reread all the wikia to get at it, but I had like five reasons it's the Illusive Man.
The only real question is, why would he allow the other races, but I suppose he had something in mind - and that's why Garson ended up the way she did.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 3, 2019 1:31:35 GMT
Like it or not, there's a shitton pointing at the Illusive Man. I'd have to replay the game and reread all the wikia to get at it, but I had like five reasons it's the Illusive Man.
The only real question is, why would he allow the other races, but I suppose he had something in mind - and that's why Garson ended up the way she did.
I have yet to see a single thing in the game that suggests TIM is the Benefactor. |
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 3, 2019 10:17:06 GMT
Well, I would like for TIM and Cerberus never to appear again in any capacity in ME, except perhaps for some cameos where you could feed those trolls their own medicine, like those two fools on Kadara.  With that being said, my first thought as the Benefactor appeared was "Oh, I just really, really hope that they are not TIM." Given how TIM/Cerberus could basically do anything that the plot demanded in ME2/ME3, regardless of how unfitting it was, I would not have been suprised though. |
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Post by Serza on Sept 3, 2019 16:15:24 GMT
Like it or not, there's a shitton pointing at the Illusive Man. I'd have to replay the game and reread all the wikia to get at it, but I had like five reasons it's the Illusive Man.
The only real question is, why would he allow the other races, but I suppose he had something in mind - and that's why Garson ended up the way she did.
I have yet to see a single thing in the game that suggests TIM is the Benefactor.
ODSY drives are based on the Tantalus drive core of the Normandy. The Tantalus that is strictly classified and the only organization that is known to have access to the technology is Cerberus.
Alec Ryder needs help with the development of SAM, upon which moment, the Benefactor offers him significant help with that, IF he signs up. Cerberus is known for developing EDI.
The Benefactor also "knows something is coming" as early as "years before" 2184-5 (Garrus goes to his father with the knowledge, and this is mentioned in the same memory as his appearance). The Illusive Man, then still Jack Harper, had his first encounter with a Reaper artifact as early as 2157.
That's three reasons off the top of my mind. I can't, for the love of God, remember the others, but there was at least one more.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 3, 2019 16:43:19 GMT
I have yet to see a single thing in the game that suggests TIM is the Benefactor.
ODSY drives are based on the Tantalus drive core of the Normandy. The Tantalus that is strictly classified and the only organization that is known to have access to the technology is Cerberus.
Alec Ryder needs help with the development of SAM, upon which moment, the Benefactor offers him significant help with that, IF he signs up. Cerberus is known for developing EDI.
The Benefactor also "knows something is coming" as early as "years before" 2184-5 (Garrus goes to his father with the knowledge, and this is mentioned in the same memory as his appearance). The Illusive Man, then still Jack Harper, had his first encounter with a Reaper artifact as early as 2157.
That's three reasons off the top of my mind. I can't, for the love of God, remember the others, but there was at least one more.
1. Only known =/= Only. Plus the ODSY drive operates a lot differently than the Tantalus drive. I don’t even remember the game saying it is based off it. 2. There are multiple people who have developed AI, even down to petty thieves making one to steal money. 3. Likewise there are multiple people who knew about the Reapers or rather something like them. For example Liara saw the pattern of the harvests back before ever meeting Shepard. |
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Post by Serza on Sept 3, 2019 18:49:30 GMT
Where the hell did I... This is what happens when I get back to theories after over a year having forgotten most of it. I look like a fool because I can't source stuff anymore.
Edit: Found something. Apparently the Tempest has the same IES (Internal Emission Sink) as a Normandy-class stealth frigate. Suppose that's where the whole "ODSY=Tantalus on 'roids" could've come from? I can't actually find anything linking ODSY to Tantalus directly as of yet. And the only people in the Milky Way in possession of the IES are... Cerberus.
It is not stated, ever, that the Tantalus is the only core compatible with the IES, but given it's special characteristics (Trilogy codex says it is one of the few, if not THE ONLY core that allows mobility via heat-emitting thrusters, and heat is one of the MAJOR ship detection methods in ME) I'd say they are closely related. Mostly because those characteristics essentially make the drive core a huge part of the entire stealth system, along the IES.
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 4, 2019 12:46:47 GMT
Where the hell did I... This is what happens when I get back to theories after over a year having forgotten most of it. I look like a fool because I can't source stuff anymore.
Edit: Found something. Apparently the Tempest has the same IES (Internal Emission Sink) as a Normandy-class stealth frigate. Suppose that's where the whole "ODSY=Tantalus on 'roids" could've come from? I can't actually find anything linking ODSY to Tantalus directly as of yet. And the only people in the Milky Way in possession of the IES are... Cerberus.
It is not stated, ever, that the Tantalus is the only core compatible with the IES, but given it's special characteristics (Trilogy codex says it is one of the few, if not THE ONLY core that allows mobility via heat-emitting thrusters, and heat is one of the MAJOR ship detection methods in ME) I'd say they are closely related. Mostly because those characteristics essentially make the drive core a huge part of the entire stealth system, along the IES.
The stealth system is from SR-1. The ODSY is as far as I know strictly initiative since it's use is primarily inter galactic. Just as Tantalus is based on IES I guess ODSY is. Common ancestry but ODSY is not Cerberus. Imho. 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 13:46:15 GMT
Where the hell did I... This is what happens when I get back to theories after over a year having forgotten most of it. I look like a fool because I can't source stuff anymore.
Edit: Found something. Apparently the Tempest has the same IES (Internal Emission Sink) as a Normandy-class stealth frigate. Suppose that's where the whole "ODSY=Tantalus on 'roids" could've come from? I can't actually find anything linking ODSY to Tantalus directly as of yet. And the only people in the Milky Way in possession of the IES are... Cerberus.
It is not stated, ever, that the Tantalus is the only core compatible with the IES, but given it's special characteristics (Trilogy codex says it is one of the few, if not THE ONLY core that allows mobility via heat-emitting thrusters, and heat is one of the MAJOR ship detection methods in ME) I'd say they are closely related. Mostly because those characteristics essentially make the drive core a huge part of the entire stealth system, along the IES.
However, Cerberus is not just TIM. He has numerous people working for him including people working on the SR-2. Also, the plans for the SR-1 were probably leaked to TIM in the first place. This means it's likely the Shadow Broker is the one who brokered the information. The SB is said to not play favorites, but rather just sells information to "highest bidder." So, perhaps it is a simple as Jien Garson having made an equivalent bid for the information.
Alternatively, someone working on the SR-2 could have leaked information to the SB. That's why my money is still on Barla Von being the Benefactor. As the financial "fixer" for the elite of the galaxy and at least an agent for the SB (if not the SB himself), he would know about the Initiative, he would know about Jien Garson's money issues, as well as Alec Ryder's... and he'd have access to the wealthy pool to put together the funds to help the Initiative complete its goals.
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Post by Serza on Sept 4, 2019 16:31:05 GMT
Yeah, but why would the Shadow Broker do this?
And how did he learn enough of the Reaper artifact to believe it was a real threat?
I wish I remembered the rest of it...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 16:53:41 GMT
Yeah, but why would the Shadow Broker do this? And how did he learn enough of the Reaper artifact to believe it was a real threat? I wish I remembered the rest of it... The thing is, for my theory to work, Liara can be the Shadow Broker... or at least not the only Shadow Broker.
So, now let's develop a theory based on the idea that there is a consortium of Shadow Brokers within the MW. AFter Liara takes down the Yahg Shadow Broker, she discovers that she has become a part of this consortium... a group of "elites" members of Milky Way society for whom Barla Von has been handling all their financial secrets. It then becomes possible that she agrees to a two-point plan that was devised a few years earlier. She decides herself just to stay with Shepard to try to fight the Reapers off from within the Milky Way, while others in the Shadow Broker consortium decided earlier to fund the Initiative with an intention to get themselves out of the galaxy eventually. We now know that the Quarian ark (which includes the Volus) left after the Reapers take out the Batarians (this is clear from the book). Barla Von (a member also of the SB consortium) disappears from the Citadel after the coup, so it is possible that he found his way aboard the Quarian Ark. It is also possible that other, as yet, unknown members of the Shadow Broker consortium left aboard the first 3 arks.
I think it's far more likely that the Shadow Broker is involved than Cerberus.
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Post by Serza on Sept 4, 2019 20:58:49 GMT
Liara was nowhere near being the Shadow Broker "Years ago"
In fact it seems like "years ago" is before she meets Shepard, so...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:09:05 GMT
Liara was nowhere near being the Shadow Broker "Years ago" In fact it seems like "years ago" is before she meets Shepard, so... The reason I brought up Liara is most of the reasons I've seen for the SB not being involved in funding the Initiative is that Liara would then have told Shepard about it once she became the SB.
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Post by AnDromedary on Sept 5, 2019 20:58:32 GMT
I still really like the idea of the geth being the benefactor ( dazk introduced me to the idea during my last playthrough, see our discussion starting here and going on for a page or so). It would explain a lot of inconsistencies and explain quite a few things that would otherwise be hard to swallow, not to mention that it would make for a hell of a cool plot twist in an ME:A2. So my money and hope is on the geth. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 21:49:09 GMT
I still really like the idea of the geth being the benefactor ( dazk introduced me to the idea during my last playthrough, see our discussion starting here and going on for a page or so). It would explain a lot of inconsistencies and explain quite a few things that would otherwise be hard to swallow, not to mention that it would make for a hell of a cool plot twist in an ME:A2. So my money and hope is on the geth. I have another role for the geth in ME:A2. My theory is that they didn't need an ark or 600 years to get to Andromeda. The transmitter beam used to scan for golden worlds transported a number of geth programs as pure software along the beam. These geth are the building blocks of the scourge.
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Post by AnDromedary on Sept 5, 2019 21:51:42 GMT
I still really like the idea of the geth being the benefactor ( dazk introduced me to the idea during my last playthrough, see our discussion starting here and going on for a page or so). It would explain a lot of inconsistencies and explain quite a few things that would otherwise be hard to swallow, not to mention that it would make for a hell of a cool plot twist in an ME:A2. So my money and hope is on the geth. I have another role for the geth in ME:A2. My theory is that they didn't need an ark or 600 years to get to Andromeda. The transmitter beam used to scan for golden worlds transported a number of geth programs as pure software along the beam. These geth are the building blocks of the scourge. Well, technically, these two ideas wouldn't even be mutually exclusive.
Though my question for your idea would be: If the geth got transmitted through the ridiculous FTL telescope thing, than what did they get transmitted into? Software transmissions/transfers need a compatible receiver on the other end.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 22:28:27 GMT
I have another role for the geth in ME:A2. My theory is that they didn't need an ark or 600 years to get to Andromeda. The transmitter beam used to scan for golden worlds transported a number of geth programs as pure software along the beam. These geth are the building blocks of the scourge. Well, technically, these two ideas wouldn't even be mutually exclusive.
Though my question for your idea would be: If the geth got transmitted through the ridiculous FTL telescope thing, than what did they get transmitted into? Software transmissions/transfers need a compatible receiver on the other end.
The vault system. It wasn't compatible... hence the development of the scourge and the issues with the vaults shutting down.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 5, 2019 23:08:17 GMT
Its the refund guy.
In the year 2170, a guy approached a vendor on the Citadel with the idea to get a refund for a product he didn't purchase if he was able to moan and groan enough. It worked. After a couple of years, he decided to hire others to do the same. By the mid 2170's he had hundreds of refund guys working for him. In 2178, he founded the Refund Guy Corporation. Over the next few years, the corporation took in billions of credits from refunds. When Big Boss Refund Guy was having lunch with a friend, he learned that a Jein Garson was planning a trip to Andromeda to do some sightseeing, but was running low on resources. He decided to help her out. At this time, it's unknown if Big Boss refund guy made the trip to Andromeda or not, but a few of his workers did make the trip.
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Post by dazk on Sept 6, 2019 1:43:00 GMT
I still really like the idea of the geth being the benefactor ( dazk introduced me to the idea during my last playthrough, see our discussion starting here and going on for a page or so). It would explain a lot of inconsistencies and explain quite a few things that would otherwise be hard to swallow, not to mention that it would make for a hell of a cool plot twist in an ME:A2. So my money and hope is on the geth. Thanks for the tag AnDromedary Yeah I think Reyes may be a lackey for the MB but not the actual MB. I think it was the Geth working with SAM with their motivations being that a symbiotic AI with an organic would be a bridge to better understanding between AI and Organics and that they also in the morning war had proven that they valued or couldn't calculate the impact of wiping out their Organic Creators and thus potentially having all organics harvested. Legion also seemed very intent on building a bridge between AI and organics. I also cannot conceive that Alec could create an AI alone and that SAM was probably co-built by the Geth with or without Alec's knowledge and that SAM and The Geth would have been able to obtain/provide the funding when Garson ran out of cash. The Geth telescope is a clue and I also think SAM asking Ryder about laws for AI's is a clue based on the fact that he may have been complicit in Garson's murder and that maybe Reyes comes in as either the person that did or organised it. The reason being that she may have been close to figuring out that SAM/The Geth were the MB but its been too long for me to remember the basis for that. Anyway mostly wild speculation and there are heaps of better theories and evidence based in a couple of other threads on this. @upagain I like your idea for the Geth getting to the Andromeda system. Not sure about them being something to do with the scourge as I can't see what the motivation would be for them to destroy The Jardaan's work unless you are saying that it was a consequence of there method of travel or something that happened to them in transit.
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Post by dazk on Sept 6, 2019 1:44:50 GMT
I have another role for the geth in ME:A2. My theory is that they didn't need an ark or 600 years to get to Andromeda. The transmitter beam used to scan for golden worlds transported a number of geth programs as pure software along the beam. These geth are the building blocks of the scourge. Well, technically, these two ideas wouldn't even be mutually exclusive.
Though my question for your idea would be: If the geth got transmitted through the ridiculous FTL telescope thing, than what did they get transmitted into? Software transmissions/transfers need a compatible receiver on the other end.
If its a re-purposed relay wouldn't it just transmit/transfer them like a spaceship but as data?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 9:41:06 GMT
I still really like the idea of the geth being the benefactor ( dazk introduced me to the idea during my last playthrough, see our discussion starting here and going on for a page or so). It would explain a lot of inconsistencies and explain quite a few things that would otherwise be hard to swallow, not to mention that it would make for a hell of a cool plot twist in an ME:A2. So my money and hope is on the geth. Thanks for the tag AnDromedary Yeah I think Reyes may be a lackey for the MB but not the actual MB. I think it was the Geth working with SAM with their motivations being that a symbiotic AI with an organic would be a bridge to better understanding between AI and Organics and that they also in the morning war had proven that they valued or couldn't calculate the impact of wiping out their Organic Creators and thus potentially having all organics harvested. Legion also seemed very intent on building a bridge between AI and organics. I also cannot conceive that Alec could create an AI alone and that SAM was probably co-built by the Geth with or without Alec's knowledge and that SAM and The Geth would have been able to obtain/provide the funding when Garson ran out of cash. The Geth telescope is a clue and I also think SAM asking Ryder about laws for AI's is a clue based on the fact that he may have been complicit in Garson's murder and that maybe Reyes comes in as either the person that did or organised it. The reason being that she may have been close to figuring out that SAM/The Geth were the MB but its been too long for me to remember the basis for that. Anyway mostly wild speculation and there are heaps of better theories and evidence based in a couple of other threads on this. @upagain I like your idea for the Geth getting to the Andromeda system. Not sure about them being something to do with the scourge as I can't see what the motivation would be for them to destroy The Jardaan's work unless you are saying that it was a consequence of there method of travel or something that happened to them in transit. I'm not suggesting it was intentional that the geth set off the scourge to harm the Jaardan. I'm thinking it was more of an unforeseen accident... a side effect of their transmitter beam.
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