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Post by necrowaif on Jun 19, 2024 20:29:49 GMT
I'll also admit some exasperation that the game is relying again on the old "elven magic to fight elven magic" trope to defeat these awakened gods. The game is set in Tevinter, the civilization that literally crushed the remnants of Arlathan - couldn't the PC bring some Tevinter knowledge or artifacts to bear against the Evanuris? a nation built on the bones of the Elven empire mind you... Regardless, I would have preferred to be less reliant on Solas' hand-me-downs. It's just yet another thing that's put me off of Veilguard.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 19, 2024 21:00:36 GMT
a nation built on the bones of the Elven empire mind you... Regardless, I would have preferred to be less reliant on Solas' hand-me-downs. It's just yet another thing that's put me off of Veilguard. What's put me off about the game is a few thing's. The combat. Has DA gone to the grasshoppers with all the hopping seen in the gameplay? What's with the 2 companion thing? Why are companion's not playable anymore? What changed to remove those feature's? If it wasn't for the ability wheel, I would say it's a copy-cat of MEA. MEA's combat was alright, but it took away the power wheel making the squadmate's useless. Varric. He say's friend, referring to Solas, x number of time's believing he can convince Solas not to do what he's doing. What make's him believe he can convince Solas of anything? He seems very devoted to that idea. Where was that devotion before he killed his brother in DA2? At the end of Trespasser, the Inq say's then we find people he doesn't know. Varric stick's out like a sore thumb carrying around that bow of his. The demon's. I like the look of the pride demon from the previous game's better than what was seen in the gameplay.
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 19, 2024 21:37:08 GMT
a nation built on the bones of the Elven empire mind you... Regardless, I would have preferred to be less reliant on Solas' hand-me-downs. It's just yet another thing that's put me off of Veilguard. I get the disappointment and irritation for having to rely on Solas (although so far we don't know if he actually helps us in any tangible way, other then using the Crossroads to move around), but unfortunately, from what Inquisition and Trespasser set up, there was nothing in current Thedas (that we know of), that'd help us in stopping the Evanuris. While at his apex pre-Blight the Imperium could've been considered a dominant power in Thedas on a similar level of pre-Veil Arlathan, the Evanuris were arguably on a different level in terms of power, and that's not even accounting their previous immortality. It does make me wonder *how* we're going to deal with them. It is definitely a problem for Veilguard as a game, but it's something that it was brought from the previous game.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 19, 2024 22:43:28 GMT
I don’t know about that. The Evanuris were immensely powerful in a pre-Veil world; why would they get to retain the same level of nigh-omnipotence in modern Thedas?
I mean, Solas woke up after millennia of sleep and was a Level 1 scrub. Why aren’t they subject to the same restrictions?
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Post by Envisionary on Jun 19, 2024 23:01:01 GMT
The magic is shaping up to be lame from what's been described, including the specializations. Deathcaller (Necromancy again), Evoker (Elementalist), Spellblade ("Combat", probably this iteration's AC/KE)
Neve on ice, Bellara on electricity. Wall of Fire is back for some reason.
It all seems so basic and done before for what appears to be the most magic centric entry.
All that and with even less active abilities, too.
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 19, 2024 23:03:18 GMT
I don’t know about that. The Evanuris were immensely powerful in a pre-Veil world; why would they get to retain the same level of nigh-omnipotence in modern Thedas? I mean, Solas woke up after millennia of sleep and was a Level 1 scrub. Why aren’t they subject to the same restrictions? The reason why they're not subject to the same restrictions, most likely, is because of the different circumstanced between Solas and the Evanuris. The former fell into slumber in the mortal world post-Veil, and lost his powers due to that...but planned to recover them through the orb at first, and then with Mythal's soul. The Evanuris were sealed in the Fade, and weren't subjected to the same situation that lead to Solas' loss of powers. We can debate whether this makes sense or not, but the two situations aren't exactly comparable. I'd say that if they were subject of the same restrictions Solas was, or a restriction where they're not at full power, it'd be a different conversation then the one about the Imperium being able to have weapons or magic able to topple them. The reason Tevinter would possess something to fight them would rely on their weakness and not on the former's might. I admit that my opinion on what transpired from Trespasser is very subjective and could very well be wrong, but I always thought Bioware was foreshadowing a clash with them at full might. If they wouldn't, Solas would've been very well in a position of advantage against them...and killing them would've been a much better option then attempting to re-seal them as he did in the opening, or even just saying he has 'plans' for them.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 19, 2024 23:24:59 GMT
Given how Trespasser ended with the Inquisitor declaring they would do anything to either stop or save Solas, I feel like a conflict with the actual Dread Wolf was what Trespasser actually set up. Mind you, Charter was hinted to be involved in the fight against Solas, and now she’s nowhere to be seen, so I guess plans have changed quite a bit. The magic is shaping up to be lame from what's been described, including the specializations. Deathcaller (Necromancy again), Evoker (Elementalist), Spellblade ("Combat", probably this iteration's AC/KE)
All that and with even less active abilities, too. What’s wrong with calling them “Necromancer” or “Arcane Warrior”? Why go with these edgelord titles?
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 19, 2024 23:54:52 GMT
Given how Trespasser ended with the Inquisitor declaring they would do anything to either stop or save Solas, I feel like a conflict with the actual Dread Wolf was what Trespasser actually set up. Mind you, Charter was hinted to be involved in the fight against Solas, and now she’s nowhere to be seen, so I guess plans have changed quite a bit. Now in all fairness, we know very little of the game, so there's still overwhelming amount of content and story we are not privy to. BUT, I still agree, the game I envisioned this one being is, especially with how Trespasser ended, completely different from how it actually starts. Why did the Inquisitor stab Tevinter in the map, if our base is in Fade (which I think is cool and all, but... I wanted as much Tevinter as we could get) and our character doesn't seem in any way affiliated with Tevinter, just chanced to be there at the right time, I presume?
Why is Solas sidelined into this co-operative role so early in the game? I think most of us were expecting there to be a catch or a bigger threat that Solas unleashes, but like, this happens almost immediately. Trespasser definitely built up a great villain character, but now instead of chasing Solas, we are chasing blighted ancient elven gods instead while Solas is somehow trapped in the Fade.
How about the full scale invasion of Tevinter by the Qun? I haven't caught up with the lore much post-Tevinter Nights and even my TN knowledge is limited, but apparently now the Antivan Crows are dealing with it somehow? Is that the case? Trespasser made it seem like a big enough plot point that it'd be a big thing in the next game, but apparently not?
And what of the elves that started gathering, presumably to join Solas' cause. Tevinter Nights at least tells us that there are Fen'Harel cultists that are blowing shit up and causing some havoc. Are they still relevant?
While I'm sure many of these things will be answered and explored more thoroughly as you progress the game, the game just isn't at all how I envisioned it and what Trespasser left me to expect, especially in regards to the focus on Solas (as the main antagonist) and maybe Tevinter. Both of these things seem to be sidelined a bit, FOR NOW with out extremely limited knowledge at least.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 20, 2024 9:37:30 GMT
Yeah the Solas situation smells like a major cop out. As if they didn't know how to keep chasing him interesting for a whole game so they came up with this awkward solution to postpone a confrontation indefinitely. I also worry that these circumstances mean that they defanged the dreadwolf and it's all railroaded into him being forced to help and change his plans rather than dealing with the original ethical dilemma of his plans. I too find it very disappointing. This is the beginning of ME3 all over again. Not at all what I imagined. This rush into chaos and action. It's also way too similar to how DAI started. So this already feels a bit uninspired. But yeah, we don't know anything about the plot details. So maybe they did something cool with it.
I completely forgot about the qunari invasion!!! Yeah I really do hope this plot point wasn't dropped entirely. It was set up as a major conflict. And I assumed back in the day they this invasion would maybe be the focus point in the first half of the game, distracting everyone from Solas and his planned apocalypse. Kinda how in Mass Effect you need to make peace between the krogan and turians first before you can forge an alliance to stop the reapers. While this would be retelling the same story again, I guess, it made more sense than how DAV starts.
But yeah, wait and see. Bioware have never been that great with the main plot. They usually make up for it with emotional storytelling. So let's hope the Solas drama hasn't lost its edge. He was imo the best most complex antagonist BioWare ever wrote. So I'm worried about squeezing him into this mostly absent ally role. This game better not end on another cliffhanger leaving most DAI story beats unresolved.
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 20, 2024 12:32:25 GMT
I'm not sure about the qunari invasion plot...that one might not get addressed in this game, I guess, but I do think the Evanuris/Solas plot won't end in a cliffhanger this time around.
Allegedly, the main plot didn't change at all across all the years, since the time they teased about the red book with the 'rook' on it, but it's not something we'll know for sure before someone leaks the details of this game's development.
I do think the name change, if companions truly became more important in terms of plot relevancy and interactions from the original idea to this one, isn't a far-fetched idea. The issue would be about picking Dreadwolf as a name for starters, but I guess that they went for it because it was something that they needed to keep fans interested with the game.
It was always a concern to me, how they'd address the possible presence of Solas and the Evanuris, because I never thought they'd have mentioned them without using them as antagonists for their games. But having them in a plot in this game was always going to be complicated, in terms of balancing them and Solas' presence. And leaving them for another game would mean things would've ended in a cliffhanger, and/or with Solas' win at the end of this game.
Even if I do think Solas will have a big part in this game, and I hope they managed to give players freedom in how to deal with him, and how this hypothetical alliance/truce would work (maybe in an extended and deeper version of TIM-Shepard in ME2), the name change at the time wasn't maybe the best way to announce...especially by following it with that reveal trailer.
No matter how good or bad this game turns out to be, that trailer made a huge disservice to the game given the impression of a hero shooter, multiplayer game to a lot of people (even more then fans, neutral and unfamiliar ones that you want to attract), and the name change obviously lead to some wrong speculations on the game.
Marketing was often not the strong suit of Bioware, but I'd say they needed a better start this time around, more then ever.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Guardian on Jun 20, 2024 14:35:41 GMT
Yeah the Solas situation smells like a major cop out. As if they didn't know how to keep chasing him interesting for a whole game so they came up with this awkward solution to postpone a confrontation indefinitely. I also worry that these circumstances mean that they defanged the dreadwolf and it's all railroaded into him being forced to help and change his plans rather than dealing with the original ethical dilemma of his plans. I too find it very disappointing. This is the beginning of ME3 all over again. Not at all what I imagined. This rush into chaos and action. It's also way too similar to how DAI started. So this already feels a bit uninspired. But yeah, we don't know anything about the plot details. So maybe they did something cool with it. I completely forgot about the qunari invasion!!! Yeah I really do hope this plot point wasn't dropped entirely. It was set up as a major conflict. And I assumed back in the day they this invasion would maybe be the focus point in the first half of the game, distracting everyone from Solas and his planned apocalypse. Kinda how in Mass Effect you need to make peace between the krogan and turians first before you can forge an alliance to stop the reapers. While this would be retelling the same story again, I guess, it made more sense than how DAV starts. But yeah, wait and see. Bioware have never been that great with the main plot. They usually make up for it with emotional storytelling. So let's hope the Solas drama hasn't lost its edge. He was imo the best most complex antagonist BioWare ever wrote. So I'm worried about squeezing him into this mostly absent ally role. This game better not end on another cliffhanger leaving most DAI story beats unresolved. Yeah...it sounds like they learned the lesson ME 3 taught them a far too late.
So now, it sounds and looks like we're getting a set-up we should have gotten for ME3, and what we got from ME3 should be what we have here in Veilguard...or something like that. Veilguard should be the time to have the ethical dilemma. There's only ever been one ethical dilemma choice in all of DA - and that was during "A Paragon of her Kind" (especially if you played a Dwarf Noble). As I said before - the original game claimed that all major choices were meant to be "difficult". I honestly had no problem with any of them, except for the Dwarves.
Agreed about Solas - so many try to claim this is Loghain, but, it's not really. Sure, at the time, I'd argue he made the right call in order to not slaughter their forces. Doesn't mean what he did was forgivable. And really, I didn't find him that complex; Solas, though... So yeah, this game will either end on a cliffhanger, or, they'll wind up giving us the "everyone lives (Inqy/Rook/etc. all) can all go live their lives forever and ever!" route we should have had with ME3 destroying the reapers.
As I said, if it's the latter, then it's a lesson that while they have learned, it came far too late.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jun 20, 2024 21:14:34 GMT
Yeah the Solas situation smells like a major cop out. As if they didn't know how to keep chasing him interesting for a whole game so they came up with this awkward solution to postpone a confrontation indefinitely. I also worry that these circumstances mean that they defanged the dreadwolf and it's all railroaded into him being forced to help and change his plans rather than dealing with the original ethical dilemma of his plans. I too find it very disappointing. This is the beginning of ME3 all over again. Not at all what I imagined. This rush into chaos and action. It's also way too similar to how DAI started. So this already feels a bit uninspired. But yeah, we don't know anything about the plot details. So maybe they did something cool with it. Sound suspiciously like what happened to the Mage-Templar conflict in DAI...
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 20, 2024 22:15:31 GMT
Yeah the Solas situation smells like a major cop out. As if they didn't know how to keep chasing him interesting for a whole game so they came up with this awkward solution to postpone a confrontation indefinitely. I also worry that these circumstances mean that they defanged the dreadwolf and it's all railroaded into him being forced to help and change his plans rather than dealing with the original ethical dilemma of his plans. I too find it very disappointing. This is the beginning of ME3 all over again. Not at all what I imagined. This rush into chaos and action. It's also way too similar to how DAI started. So this already feels a bit uninspired. But yeah, we don't know anything about the plot details. So maybe they did something cool with it. Sound suspiciously like what happened to the Mage-Templar conflict in DAI... Without knowing the details on how development went and if their words on the main plot being unchanged from years go is correct, I'd say it's a bit different. Trespasser, while focusing on Solas, did set up the plot of the Evanuris, with the former plan's involving the release of the latter, and all the implications that'd come from it. There was little doubts in my mind that the Evanuris would be used as antagonists for a Dragon Age game, but implementing then with Solas was never going to be easy. The Mage-Templar war was put aside for a plot that we had no indication it'd come in the third game. The interview that partially focused on Solas, today, does seem to indicate that the way we're going to establish a 'relationship' with Solas is quite open to different paths, and I do think he's going to have a big part of the game regardless of his temporary confinement.
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