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witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by witchcocktor on Nov 15, 2024 8:55:27 GMT
I think a telltale sign of a good RPG is that when you are playing the game for the first time, you are already thinking of your next character. When I played DAI the first time I romanced Solas and did the mage path. I felt so deflated at the end with her standing alone on that balcony. So, how did I deal with that? I started playing again immediately as a male Inquisitor and this time I was going to romance Dorian and do the Templar path. I still went to Redcliffe but then essentially rejected him because he was from Tevinter and went to Therinfall instead, although I did end up disbanding the Templars. So, this not only allowed me to see a completely different side to Dorian but the fact we ended up together was because he had helped my guy overcome his own prejudices. Also, he was really tempted to drink from the Well as he was an elf but in the end he didn't because Dorian said he didn't want to lose him to it. So, essentially Dorian saved him from making a big mistake (well it seemed like that at the time). It is still my favourite world state. I also think the Templar path was more interesting because of the greater insights into Corypheus' character and Calpernia's plot line. I don't think there is the scope in DAV for that sort of variety in approach and role playing. In fact from what I've seen when it comes to romances it is just choosing X instead of Y this time round. They even all have the same formula to them when it comes to how the romance plays out. The only real variety is in which city you save and even that doesn't seem to result in any appreciable difference going forward (unless you are a member of one particular faction, in one particular romance and don't save their city). From what I've been seeing, when people finish DAV it just makes them eager to go back to the old games again and replay them, rather than try another run. Still, you can congratulate yourself that you did actually finish the game. According to this video, you deserve a medal! I love reading about how people eventually came up with their '' canon '' (or at least favorite) Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor, as it's usually not a '' one and done '' deal from the first playthrough of the game. It's fascinating to hear about each players' journey to their canon choice. Sadly Veilguard just doesn't hit the same way, and the emphasis on multiple playthroughs and experimenting with different choices is just not there. There's also just a general lack of handling of topics like religion, politics, race and culture that doesn't add complexity to romances and relationships. Like with your Inquisitor and overcoming prejudices while romancing Dorian, whether that is ingrained in the actual gameplay and roleplaying elements you can interact with in-game, the topic of people having prejudices towards vints is a pretty important piece of Dorian's overall character, story and banter so you'll have ample opportunity to fill in the blanks and come up with your own stories. Another thing that Veilguard is just not good at, inciting that imaginative roleplaying that goes beyond the boundaries of what the game actually offers. Though I do think that the faction thing can work as a small detail and tool in roleplaying. If I really enjoy an RPG, I also tend to finetune the '' perfect '' run in terms of choices. I did this with DA:I and BG3, where I did several runs to find the absolute perfect balance of choices that I could imitate in further runs, perhaps with a few different variations here and there (and the '' perfect '' run usually changes with time anyway). As you said, there is just not enough variety in Veilguard, and quite honestly I was perfectly happy with all my choices in the game from the first run. I don't feel like I'm missing anything by choosing differently, the few choices you do make. And yes, I will take my medal and go back to playing Inquisition during Christmas break. Time for another Male Lavellan + Iron Bull playthrough. Let's gooooo!
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rocketpineapple
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
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rocketpineapple
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
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Post by rocketpineapple on Nov 15, 2024 9:30:14 GMT
I mean I complain a lot about the "thrusting the protag into a leadership role with 0 preparation but insistence they can do it for some reason" BW loves but I feel like this may be the most egregious yet. You're not only just suddenly the leader apparently for some reason the fates of two whole ass cities lie on your shoulders specifically.
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Adia
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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adiel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Adia on Nov 15, 2024 9:41:11 GMT
I encourage everyone to read "The Art of Dragon Age: The Veilguard" book. It's the story we could've actually gotten had Bioware chosen to actually give us what we wanted instead of catering to "modern audience". They had ideas and story art for everything. They just didn't use any of them, for no fricking reason. I'm so pissed thinking about what could've been
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mele
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Post by mele on Nov 15, 2024 9:50:43 GMT
I wrote the paragraph above using "her" instead of "them" before I noticed, and then changed it. It was very annoying This incessant need to label someone, or ourselves, as "an X" ... this identitarianism, is an evil... Possibly you won't understand where I'm getting at because for you, this is all The Truth (TM)...
So because it's annoying to you to change some pronouns ... it's evil? Really? There's literal wars and genocides going on right now and that's where you draw the line?
You say Taash is a woman because they look like a woman to you, but when you find out a woman is trans suddenly she's not a woman anymore?
You are free to say what you want and you should. But people don't have to put up with it and are free to tell you you're wrong and, if you continue, to exclude you. A NB person existing is proof your sacred Truth TM is wrong. You feel pressured because you have to adjust the pronouns you use? They feel harassment and threats of physical violence, being thrown out on the street and fired, but that's not pressure. I guess you're the real victim here.
I don't like keeping this discussion going, but they keep repeating these points and I feel it's wrong to just let this go unchallanged.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 15, 2024 10:26:29 GMT
I don't like keeping this discussion going....
Neither do I. This is typical of how these discussions go. Am I being deliberately misrepresented? Do people really not understand what I'm saying? Why do people condemn me while I have been saying nothing that could even be remotely construed as morally objectionable from any reasonable viewpoint I can see around me? I will say one thing more: if you think words are a pittance compared to the real evils of the world - with which I agree - then why do you condemn me for not using your words, when I agree with you in everything *but* those words?
I will now stop talking about this.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 15, 2024 10:29:18 GMT
I encourage everyone to read "The Art of Dragon Age: The Veilguard" book. It's the story we could've actually gotten had Bioware chosen to actually give us what we wanted instead of catering to "modern audience". They had ideas and story art for everything. They just didn't use any of them, for no fricking reason. I'm so pissed thinking about what could've been Reading that honestly would just make me more depressed
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
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kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 15, 2024 10:32:50 GMT
Here in the U.K. we now have the equivalent of thought police. If someone posts something on social media that someone else doesn't like, they report them and they get a knock on the door by the police who want to "check their thinking". They haven't actually committed a crime but a "non crime hate incident". That is where all this identity politics has ended up. There are ten times as many incidents of this sort of visit by the police in the U.K. as there are in Russia under Putin! It is okay when the person has a high profile because they have the platform to yell foul about it. Sadly, most ordinary folk are just too afraid to speak up because their can't afford to. There is a huge silent majority out there at least in "western society". The rest of the world just thinks we're bonkers. I had no idea things were this bad already, that's terrifying. Utterly terrifying.
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Oswin
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Emmrich Simp
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Snozzlenut
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Emmrich Simp
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Aug 14, 2016 22:53:17 GMT
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oswin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Snozzlenut
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Post by Oswin on Nov 15, 2024 10:40:01 GMT
If I really enjoy an RPG, I also tend to finetune the '' perfect '' run in terms of choices. I did this with DA:I and BG3, where I did several runs to find the absolute perfect balance of choices that I could imitate in further runs, perhaps with a few different variations here and there (and the '' perfect '' run usually changes with time anyway). As you said, there is just not enough variety in Veilguard, and quite honestly I was perfectly happy with all my choices in the game from the first run. I don't feel like I'm missing anything by choosing differently, the few choices you do make. I love how into BG3 people are, to the point where for a time both my instagram and Reddit algorithms were just BG3 stuff and I was here for it. Because thing is - I don't love BG3 and I really wish I could. When I finished my playthrough of it, I never wanted to play it again. But ask me about it and I have nothing but praise for the game. It's a damn fine game that does so much so right... apart from how horny everyone is . Ask me about any DA game and I will bitch and whine about everything wrong with them as I settle down to play them for the millionth time. I think the chokehold DAO has had over my life with the 'firsts' it gave me has meant that I will always be more forgiving of the series than I should be. It's the ex whose DMs I keep sliding into while drunk while my friends all sit around shouting 'girl, stop, he ain't right for you.' What I will celebrate Veilguard for doing is encapsulating my relationship with this series so beautifully through Solas and Rook. Rook is me. Solas is Dragon Age. There were lines said between them in Act 3 that felt almost like a personal attack because it was like I was Rook getting my hopes up time and again, and TIME AND AGAIN Solas was like 'lol, nope you absolute idiot'. Out of all my criticisms for this game - Solas isn't one of them. I am his biggest fan and I love how much I hated him in this game. Love it. I did actually like Veilgaurd as a game - I just wish it had either been not been a DA game or had been like a side game - aka smaller threat. Much smaller threat. When you think about how much effort it took to take down one Archdemon in DAO and then in Veilguard you did, what, 2 of them? 3 of them? I lost count. I am someone who enjoys playing as characters who have no business being where they are (My BG3 Tav is one of the funniest characters i've RP for that reason), but even this did feel a bit of a stretch. I highly doubt I'll be replaying this game quite the amount I did the previous ones, and not just because I wasn't in a job for the previous ones. But I will be doing a second run to see how a Warden goes at least. At some point.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 15, 2024 10:52:57 GMT
If I really enjoy an RPG, I also tend to finetune the '' perfect '' run in terms of choices. I did this with DA:I and BG3, where I did several runs to find the absolute perfect balance of choices that I could imitate in further runs, perhaps with a few different variations here and there (and the '' perfect '' run usually changes with time anyway). As you said, there is just not enough variety in Veilguard, and quite honestly I was perfectly happy with all my choices in the game from the first run. I don't feel like I'm missing anything by choosing differently, the few choices you do make. And yes, I will take my medal and go back to playing Inquisition during Christmas break. Time for another Male Lavellan + Iron Bull playthrough. Let's gooooo! Nice to see someone who plays like me. This is why my first run of any RPG is usually not the one featuring the character who will become my favorite. I need to know the limitations the game imposes in terms of storytelling and character expression, before I can decide which kind of story I want to create for which kind of character. Not that it matters for Rook, who is always the same.
I'll go and replay the other DA games as well. Not sure if I'll manage to replay DA2, but I want a continuity of world states. I hope the DA Keep is still functional.
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helios969
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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helios969
Kamisama
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helios969
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
helios969
No Clue
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Post by helios969 on Nov 15, 2024 10:54:48 GMT
You are free to say what you want and you should. But people don't have to put up with it and are free to tell you you're wrong and, if you continue, to exclude you. Okay, you're wrong.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 435 Likes: 887
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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andorvex
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 15, 2024 10:57:44 GMT
But that conflict doesn't go anywhere anyway. That's the point. People are not simple. They won't reach an agreement just like that because we are close to the end of the story. That's silly. I live in a place that is in a very dangerous situation, life threatening, but do you think people united together and stopped arguing? Hell no.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 15, 2024 10:59:10 GMT
I think, I will take my leave in this thread for now, since it's getting too RL for my taste right now and I can use the escapism, games and books bring me atm. This is not a critisicsm btw, for such hard topics, it stays erxtremly healthy here, which is, what I love about this forum.
I want to add, that a lot of policing in speech often doesn't come from us 'woke' people, but from people, who think, they have to speak on our behalf. I had a hetero girl explaining to me, why I should be upset, that BG3 is not more inclusive - she meant, that the topic of homosexuality, trans or general gender identity etc. should be a plotpoint, when no one, me included, asked for it. I just want a good game with a captivating story and interesting characters.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 15, 2024 11:06:41 GMT
Let me elaborate on what rubs me wrong about Taash in a hopefully acceptable manner that touches on things already said here that some people seem adamant on not understanding about gender and identity.
Taash at one point talks about how men wear this and women wear that and it's all stupid and they don't want to be tied down in this narrow fashion. And I keep thinking, no, Taash, YOU are the one putting men and women in rigid boxes of gender cliches! Now of course it's fine for Taash as barely more than a rebellious teenager to have the wrong impression about things. Especially as a qunari. But the game won't let me call out this bullshit, which then makes me wonder why? Because I'm supposed to agree with this simplictic non issue?
Until like 10 years ago people simply wore whatever the fuck they wanted and it didn't result in a weird gender crisis and a tyranny of certain groups of people on this topic. Because you can very well be a woman and not wear makeup and pretty dresses. Women like me. There are straight drag queens. Human beings are a little bit more complex than this weird attitude that Taash has that is frankly super sexist.
I'm not trying to downplay that people who are non conformist are met with ridicule or outright resentment all the time and that's not OK. People should express themselves any way they want as long as they don't restrict the freedom of others. But the way Taash frames her crisis is highly problematic to me. Instead of highlighting individuality and tolerance I see nothing but narrow minded thinking in Taash on what it means to be a man or a woman. Fine for her to be flawed like that but it's NOT presented as such and that troubles me. Rook cannot challenge that attitude.
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∯ Alien Wizard
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ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 15, 2024 11:12:07 GMT
Another... less than flattering review, from Spell&Shield. That was harsh. Perhaps a bit too harsh, but I do agree that the flaws he mentions are indeed significant flaws. And I also agree that what the game does best is make me want to replay the other DA games. Or some other classic RPGs.
As for the medal, well, he played his first run on Nightmare. I agree with him about the combat mostly, but playing on Nightmare is not a representative way to play the game and no good basis for a game review, even if, by a streak of luck, it worked for him in past games. I would never play my first run on a difficulty I can't change.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 435 Likes: 887
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andorvex
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 15, 2024 11:19:32 GMT
A really well made review I recently watched and don't know if people posted here already: I really like the editing and they work done into bringing up many many examples of bad writing
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 15, 2024 11:28:04 GMT
There is no logic to it. In fact all it comes down to in the end is the presence of Rook. The rationale is that Rook by virtue of the Lyrium dragger calls Ghilan'nain to earth (and the dragon) which otherwise would snipe out of range. What you make of that rationale is your call but that's the rationale that is presented.
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dis_Op2399
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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tripgodblossom
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Post by dis_Op2399 on Nov 15, 2024 11:34:03 GMT
This time last week I was still feeling restless and itchy about the game, so with a free weekend ahead of me I grabbed a month of EA Play thinking the price might be worth it for the purportedly decent end section. I'm about 25 hours in so far, recruited all the companions and have done a decent amount of side content. What I hadn't really anticipated, likely due to all the drama around release and my own passion for the series, was just how boring it would be. I'm at the stage now where I have to force myself to keep playing. Obviously a lot has already been said about the quality of companions and just how tepid it all is, but it really doesn't hit home until you're actually playing and find your mind drifting off to household chores, despite the subject matter being something you've spent ten years thinking about. The scenic but linear runs of your character following a companion while they tell about (not show) themselves feels so curated and game-y that I found myself longing for the freedom of the Hinterlands. What doesn't feel curated is the combat encounters though. Taking the worst spongey and messy aspects of Inquisition and tying them to a solo dodge roller with two companion abilities every 40 seconds is utterly mind numbing. Combat has the basic adrenaline rush any dodge roller gives, but stretched out over stodgy enemy health pools means burn out ensues quickly. It also feels like the camera can't keep up half the time. Dumping full party combat for this is just sad. It feels lonely because your two companions are essentially playing a different game and any camaraderie is gone as a result. The cheerleading they do offer becomes grating and occasionally they're just in the way. Also if I see one more artefact/ wisp/ blight-pipe door puzzle I'm going to scream. Maybe mage and rogue play a lot better, but I just can't ever see myself going back through this game to find out. In past games I could've tested all classes by simply switching to a companion. No such luck here. At this point I'm not even sure I can face continuing one playthrough.
Andromeda is a useful comparison. That game always felt like fanfiction to me, earnest but lacking the gravitas of previous entries. Combat there was solid and built on its predecessors, albeit with messy open world encounters. It also had the massive advantage of being a spin-off. So far Veilguard feels more like AI writing, uncannily soulless and weak on the details. Some of the magic mechanical jargon especially, often around Bellara, is hideous. Jumping genres to ARPG puts the game against competition that is so high up in the stratosphere comparatively that the only way it was gonna keep up was with its party system, but that is almost entirely gone. Dragon Age's strengths always lay in its companions and party, and to see that lost mechanically in combat and qualitatively in story content really is tragic. The greatest loss for me though is the world of Thedas as a whole. People moaned about the War Table, but it made the world feel vibrant and brought the extended lore to the surface. With Veilguard I don't feel immersed in a living world, or have have much sense of all that history. Coming down from Inquisition's world shaping politics and army commanding magnitude to a little treehouse gang who are somehow facing an even bigger threat was never going to work. The disneyfication of it all just amplifies this glaring contradiction even more.
I had months of pessimism, and a week of confirmation, for my expectations to adjust, yet it's still surprising how genuinely low quality the game actually feels in the playing. Credit where it's due though - custom difficulty, hair physics, performance, out of combat animation and graphics (as opposed to art style) are all strong points.
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