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Post by themikefest on Oct 12, 2024 11:18:51 GMT
Could the lack of choices and having some options/features removed from the game is because of a lack of resources?
My top thing is the removal of the control the companion feature. It was an option. The player is not forced to play as a companion. My understanding it was removed to focus on the main character. Because of that, I drop one star. At the moment, until I play the game, I give it a 4 out of 5 stars.
Another feature is no romances outside of the companions. I believe the reason is to focus on the companions. There's that focus word again. I enjoy romancing a character who is not a companion/squadmate. In DAI, my favorite was Josephine.
Since I mentioned focus twice, I believe it's the word for DA while plot is the word for ME. How did this happen in ME? Plot demanded it happen. Why isn't this in Veilguard? Because focus demands it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 12, 2024 11:21:11 GMT
Bioware did say that if the Keep ever is shut down, they’ll introduce something that’ll act as a substitute so people can still make worldstates for DAI. It'll be a hell of an idea...patching a ten year old (+) game. To be honest, I suspected something more like a remaster of DAI by then that has it built into the game.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 12, 2024 11:21:14 GMT
Could the lack of choices and having some options/features removed from the game is because of a lack of resources? My top thing is the removal of the control the companion feature. It was an option. The player is not forced to play as a companion. My understanding it was removed to focus on the main character. Because of that, I drop one star. At the moment, until I play the game, I give it a 4 out of 5 stars. Another feature is no romances outside of the companions. I believe the reason is to focus on the companions. There's that focus word again. I enjoy romancing a character who is not a companion/squadmate. In DAI, my favorite was Josephine. Since I mentioned focus twice, I believe it's the word for DA while plot is the word for ME. How did this happen in ME? Plot demanded it happen. Why isn't this in Veilguard? Because focus demands it. Take it for what you will but this decision has nothing to do with a lack of time or resources. This was a very deliberate, thought out choice.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 12, 2024 11:30:17 GMT
Could the lack of choices and having some options/features removed from the game is because of a lack of resources? My top thing is the removal of the control the companion feature. It was an option. The player is not forced to play as a companion. My understanding it was removed to focus on the main character. Because of that, I drop one star. At the moment, until I play the game, I give it a 4 out of 5 stars. Another feature is no romances outside of the companions. I believe the reason is to focus on the companions. There's that focus word again. I enjoy romancing a character who is not a companion/squadmate. In DAI, my favorite was Josephine. Since I mentioned focus twice, I believe it's the word for DA while plot is the word for ME. How did this happen in ME? Plot demanded it happen. Why isn't this in Veilguard? Because focus demands it. Take it for what you will but this decision has nothing to do with a lack of time or resources. This was a very deliberate, thought out choice. I never said time. I only said resources. Either way, removing features that were in previous DA games, at least the controlling companion mechanic, reduces replay value. I would like to ask Busche if she was in charge of the previous DA games, would she have removed the control companion mechanic, and in DAI, would she have romances only for the companions?
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Oct 12, 2024 11:31:41 GMT
Could the lack of choices and having some options/features removed from the game is because of a lack of resources? Yes, it is possible. The game was in development hell for years and had a ton of company turnover. If systems were not well documented then that means a lot of legacy information would require a hefty technical debt or lost forever. That being said, only those who work/ed there could know what were purely design decisions vs design decisions based on budget/resources.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 12, 2024 11:34:33 GMT
Take it for what you will but this decision has nothing to do with a lack of time or resources. This was a very deliberate, thought out choice. I never said time. I only said resources. Either way, removing features that were in previous DA games, at least the controlling companion mechanic, reduces replay value. I would like to ask Busche if she was in charge of the previous DA games, would she have removed the control companion mechanic, and in DAI, would she have romances only for the companions? Time is a resource and not just responding to you specifically but everyone making this argument on here. And I certainly would've removed the former and the latter isn't really much of a distinction.
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Post by river82 on Oct 12, 2024 12:12:36 GMT
Could the lack of choices and having some options/features removed from the game is because of a lack of resources? My top thing is the removal of the control the companion feature. It was an option. The player is not forced to play as a companion. My understanding it was removed to focus on the main character. Because of that, I drop one star. At the moment, until I play the game, I give it a 4 out of 5 stars. Another feature is no romances outside of the companions. I believe the reason is to focus on the companions. There's that focus word again. I enjoy romancing a character who is not a companion/squadmate. In DAI, my favorite was Josephine. Since I mentioned focus twice, I believe it's the word for DA while plot is the word for ME. How did this happen in ME? Plot demanded it happen. Why isn't this in Veilguard? Because focus demands it. It's obviously something they've cared less and less about as time went on. It's one of the original philosophies of old Bioware but old Bioware is close to 30 years old and almost nobody from that place is currently working there anymore. It is true there is only finite resources and it is true that as a smaller studio they have to choose what to care about, it's also true that it hasn't been a priority for a long time. Stuff seems to be more and more of an afterthought
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 12, 2024 12:55:18 GMT
It's obviously something they've cared less and less about as time went on. It's one of the original philosophies of old Bioware but old Bioware is close to 30 years old and almost nobody from that place is currently working there anymore. It is true there is only finite resources and it is true that as a smaller studio they have to choose what to care about, it's also true that it hasn't been a priority for a long time. Stuff seems to be more and more of an afterthought I guess we'll find out how smart a move that was. If the writing is subpar then it doesn't matter anyway to me. We'll see how well this game is received by old fans and the new crowd they've been tailoring this game for apparently. Sounds like a very dumb idea to me to get rid of their trademark feature but I've been surprised at what games that looked like garbage to me sold like hotcakes in the past. I hope their new player base is big enough to sustain them. BioWare already lost me with Andromeda, the last time they received money from me was Trespasser, so my opinion doesn't matter to them. New BioWare does their thing, I buy something else.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 12, 2024 13:01:14 GMT
Could the lack of choices and having some options/features removed from the game is because of a lack of resources? My top thing is the removal of the control the companion feature. It was an option. The player is not forced to play as a companion. My understanding it was removed to focus on the main character. Because of that, I drop one star. At the moment, until I play the game, I give it a 4 out of 5 stars. Another feature is no romances outside of the companions. I believe the reason is to focus on the companions. There's that focus word again. I enjoy romancing a character who is not a companion/squadmate. In DAI, my favorite was Josephine. Since I mentioned focus twice, I believe it's the word for DA while plot is the word for ME. How did this happen in ME? Plot demanded it happen. Why isn't this in Veilguard? Because focus demands it. Take it for what you will but this decision has nothing to do with a lack of time or resources. This was a very deliberate, thought out choice.
Deliberate in the sense that fast action combat demands it. Thought out? ... No. Remember that Busche said they tried for a 4 man team which didn't work out. This means Bio did not properly thought out the consequences of the combat design and had to compromise to keep it = a reduction to a three man team.
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Post by Guardian on Oct 12, 2024 13:44:02 GMT
It's obviously something they've cared less and less about as time went on. It's one of the original philosophies of old Bioware but old Bioware is close to 30 years old and almost nobody from that place is currently working there anymore. It is true there is only finite resources and it is true that as a smaller studio they have to choose what to care about, it's also true that it hasn't been a priority for a long time. Stuff seems to be more and more of an afterthought I guess we'll find out how smart a move that was. If the writing is subpar then it doesn't matter anyway to me. We'll see how well this game is received by old fans and the new crowd they've been tailoring this game for apparently. Sounds like a very dumb idea to me to get rid of their trademark feature but I've been surprised at what games that looked like garbage to me sold like hotcakes in the past. I hope their new player base is big enough to sustain them. BioWare already lost me with Andromeda, the last time they received money from me was Trespasser, so my opinion doesn't matter to them. New BioWare does their thing, I buy something else. Agreed - Modern Day BioWare wants nothing to do with the fans that got them here, and want a modern crowd. Granted, like you said - everyone that started with BioWare is gone (for better or worse, depending on who it is), and I also hope this fanbase they so desperately want sustains them as well. Despite what fanboys think, I don't want BioWare to fail; just because I don't believe they can do no wrong doesn't mean I want them to go under.
Trademark features might be not desired anymore by the modern audience? I'm not sure, and I can't say because I don't have any data to look at or reference. I haven't heard anyone complain about a game like BG3 being difficult because of party management in combat, but again, I don't know. I'm not going to claim to know, or pretend that I know this as certainty as I'm sure some might here. I don't think we'll ever know the reasoning behind this decision. Time and resources can be always pointed to, sure, but the truth is we don't know.
But yes, if the writing is subpar, as it has been for the last couple of games, then this is all moot (for me, anyway). I've said before, for me, Veilguard has a rather low bar to clear, given the meh feeling Inquisition left me with. But if it comes out with writing like Andromeda had, well...that's not going to be a good start.
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Post by Frost on Oct 12, 2024 14:06:27 GMT
The thing I hate most about the game, reducing abilities to 3, was a design choice and had nothing to do with resources. That’s why I am not optimistic that it will get fixed in future games. They don’t see any problem with reducing mages to only 3 abilities, so it won’t get fixed.
They only have 3 classes, and they couldn’t even handle designing combat for that small number. Compare that with BG3, which has lots of classes with unique mechanics, so you can choose what you like to play. BG3 is not just rogue, rogue, and more rogue like Veilguard. BG3 is all about having choices. Bioware no longer sees the value in having choice.
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Post by fistoffiori on Oct 12, 2024 15:07:54 GMT
Not here to argue (as you'll tell from my post!), nor make excuses, but my two penneth on writing:
It's ME and DA veterans writing the story, some like Mary Kirby (still pissed off she and others were laid off) etc - There's not much crossover with Anthem and MEA, John Dombrow (previously Garrus' writer and wrote Davrin for Veilguard) was on MEA, but most of Veilguard's writers were on Inquisition or earlier, they're DA folk. They had a bunch of Lore-loving fans on a community council. Also, we've seen just the same few missions of act 1 so far.
Yes I have my own reservations (and a dose of skepticism) about story and writing etc considering not much of our world is coming over, but still, the writers are some of the writers of previous games.
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Post by akots on Oct 12, 2024 16:28:30 GMT
Not here to argue (as you'll tell from my post!), nor make excuses, but my two penneth on writing: It's ME and DA veterans writing the story, some like Mary Kirby (still pissed off she and others were laid off) etc - There's not much crossover with Anthem and MEA, John Dombrow (previously Garrus' writer and wrote Davrin for Veilguard) was on MEA, but most of Veilguard's writers were on Inquisition or earlier, they're DA folk. They had a bunch of Lore-loving fans on a community council. Also, we've seen just the same few missions of act 1 so far. Yes I have my own reservations (and a dose of skepticism) about story and writing etc considering not much of our world is coming over, but still, the writers are some of the writers of previous games. I don't want to sound too judgemental but all these people you mention are auxiliary or secondary writers who might not have an ability to grasp the big picture. They might be professional with good language and some skill. However, none of them, to the best of my knowledge, have anything global like designing the plot on a scale or world building. Garrus's lines are funny and all good because of how they fit in the world of Mass Effect and cannot stand on their own. Same goes for the rest. DA world is largely the creation of Gaider, being the collective effort of all developers of course. Still, the vision and direction has been set by Gaider, who is an exceptionally talented author, and this creation of his has been successful in most of its aspects.
IMHO, Mass Effect has been a vision of Hudson largely realized by Kapryshin, although ME universe is more of a collective effort, while Kaprysin's contributions had been mainly directed at the story and overall emotional layout.
So, all these excellent people you mention seems to need a guide that points in the right direction. While Hudson might have had a serious role in Anthem, the direction was not well implemented mostly due to the lack of any story and even an effort to create something like a story. One can say that this was all a plan. Then, one can say that the plan has failed.
We'll see how Weekes fairs in DAV. The Masked Empire was not bad, I really liked the book. However, it were considerably weaker than Gaider's books despite better overall technical writing quality language-wise. My impression 10 years after reading it is that it failed to leave a long-lasting imprint, being just a good book with a decent but not very memorable story. I hesitate to call it a story About Nothing although it comes fairly close due to general lack of emotion or inspiration.
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Post by phoray on Oct 12, 2024 16:41:11 GMT
I watched some Warrior vs Rogue Vs Mage builds/synergies yesterday. Warrior is Avenger Hulk Smash with so much magic they may as well have been a mage. The mage actually threw fewer sparks and had a smaller footprint. The rogue was the only thing that looked remotely realistic and akin to the Dragon Age we've played so far. I heard from somewhere we can turn off all the blinking neon colors in the settings? I'm just hoping the modders community can fix some of this. I'd download them every time.
Also, the mage PEW PEW is just different colors. Red, blue, green, white. And what is up with the damage? 2056? "Big number make my brain happy" much?
Edit: also, that necromancy spell is clearly blood magic. 🤦🏻♀️
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Post by emissaryoflies on Oct 12, 2024 16:43:34 GMT
Alright. I can dig that. But I wonder what happens to BioWare when EA is breathing down their necks for 10 years of developmental hell to put out a hit. Andromeda was strike one. Anthem was worth two strikes, but we'll call it one. Strike two. We know EA has killed studios for much less. Pandemic anyone?
BioWare may be looking at this as a 'catch all' title because they desperately need the game to sell well and receive critical acclaim. They want to appeal to everyone and it appears they're heavily leaning into the progressive aspects of that and it may be to their detriment, if you look at 2024 alone. If you look at that first trailer alone. They're veterans, true. Lots of veterans fall off for one reason or another. I simply hope they have remembered what got them their name and veteran status in the first place. Telling great stories, honoring choices, and honoring their fanbase. Lets hope Gaider is an exception and not the rule. Because BioWare is just a name to EA. And the reaper only cares about one thing. Profits.
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Post by akots on Oct 12, 2024 17:21:31 GMT
And the reaper only cares about one thing. Profits. EA has some "sale expectations". IDK how they calculate these. Neither Anthem nor MEA were financial disasters. Both games brought in some money, which might have been less than expected by some EA clerks but my understanding is that the margins were still fairly impressive. Bad reviews for bad movies or games does not mean that these movies or games are not profitable. Many viewers/players go for a name or style of action. There is considerable audience for stupid bad comedies with flat jokes, tasteless plotless violence action, and other genres. Every taste must be catered, especially these days of relatively fierce competition. There is also some peculiar differences between the entertainment industry and the rest of the economy. Bad or low quality food is usually priced lower than something really tasty, and same goes for cars, services, etc. However, all big studio games are priced similarly regardless of their quality based on some obscure developmental budget. Movie tickets and streaming are also equal in price for a good versus a bad movie. Jurassic World had a budget of around $150 million and brought in over $1.5 billion from the box office despite being terrible in all aspects. I guess, people simply like to watch dinosaurs. So, it is an industry, and yes, making money seems to be a priority.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 12, 2024 17:53:40 GMT
I'm done blaming EA for Bioware's lack of creative vision the past 9 years. Granted, EA pushed the live service idea on them, OK. That definitely didn't help with Bioware's identity crisis. Anthem was most likely a product of that. Trying to please EA. OK. But I doubt EA is responsible for the tone of the game, the Disney-like airbrush look, the childlike lines of Bellara. The God awful enemy design... Whatever is up with 1984 Minrathous. The boring bits of dialogue we've seen so far. This was all BioWare. This is what they want the game to be like. Apparently it's AMAZING.
Having veterans like Weekes still working at BioWare doesn't seem to mean much anymore. Their focus as a studio has changed and those who remained got on board. Those who didn't like the new direction have left. People change. It's normal. Creative visions can change, devs try new things. That is all fine in principle. Nothing new they've been trying has been a critical success yet though. We'll soon know with DAV. So I hope whatever new target audience they're aiming for again will be pleased so that financially it was worth it for them to piss off and alienate their faithful old fans like that. Again. That's the only IP left now, so good luck!
I would have much rather seen them pull a BG3. A game made for all the nerds who've been starved for years for something like this, ironically among them many DAO lovers, an RPG so good that it draws in new crowds just through the overwhelming praise. THAT is what any studio should do. I bet BG3 was a lot of people's first CRPG. Hell, maybe even RPG. I too didn't have any clue about D&D. Totally overwhelmed. And it was fine. People ARE willing to learn new things if the game seems worth it. If you're worried the average gamer is too stupid or easily frustrated to learn your game, so you make it "easily accessible", then you neither respect your old fans nor the future gamers you hope to address. You treat them like children, so maybe that's why the game feels like it was made for children.
Dumping your loyal fanbase for some elusive new generation of gamers is such a shitty move, and the grinch in me wants to see this game flop hard as a result. But maybe it won't, maybe Bioware knows what kids these days want, I dunno. Most of their staff is probably much younger than me by now. They apparently like wildly different things. So maybe this is some kind of tragic generational rift, and I'm the old woman yelling at clouds.
Maybe what gamers a generation or two younger than me want is playing dress-up and fulfilling personal (sex) fantasies. Fashion and romance with a light plot tacked on where the details don't matter. Looks like BioWare does have that covered this time. Look at the glorious hair!
I know I'm being totally unfair. We haven't seen enough of the game. But that's what everyone said about Andromeda and it turned out exactly as I thought going by the promo material. I stopped huffing copium a long time ago.
I won't be spreading my gremlin vibes anywhere but this thread until release. I hope those who still look forward to this game get something satisfying.
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Post by emissaryoflies on Oct 12, 2024 18:05:35 GMT
EA has some "sale expectations". IDK how they calculate these. Neither Anthem nor MEA were financial disasters. Both games brought in some money, which might have been less than expected by some EA clerks but my understanding is that the margins were still fairly impressive. Bad reviews for bad movies or games does not mean that these movies or games are not profitable. Many viewers/players go for a name or style of action. There is considerable audience for stupid bad comedies with flat jokes, tasteless plotless violence action, and other genres. Every taste must be catered, especially these days of relatively fierce competition. To your point, the preorders are 'within expectations'. I'm assuming that's good. But I wonder what's going to happen upon release. And yes Andromeda was profitable and Anthem was profitable, but where are they now? Anthem was whisked away to never be thought of again. No franchise there. No future there. Andromeda received so much universal derision that it turned Bioware Montreal into a 'support studio' and damn near killed the Mass Effect IP. No future profits. Only very short term gains. They had to run right back to the trilogy for their money, leaving Ryder to rot. I really hope the 'modern audience' shows up for this one. They've chased away more than a few of their hardcores already.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 12, 2024 18:18:28 GMT
Jurassic World had a budget of around $150 million and brought in over $1.5 billion from the box office despite being terrible in all aspects. I guess, people simply like to watch dinosaurs. So, it is an industry, and yes, making money seems to be a priority. It will never stop to depress me how well shitty stuff sells. Often bad products sell better than quality products. Sometimes it just comes down to price and most people simply cannot afford better and thus never know what they're missing out on. But this cannot be said for cheap entertainment. A lot of people have no appreciation for art or a deep story. They want mindless entertainment to forget their worries. I would probably be a really bad judge on what will be a hit and would NOT lead a studio to success . I mean, I KNOW. Just look at all the lazy big sports titles. Look at Pokemon being the same game, slightly worse each year. People still buy this shit and I cannot for the life of me understand why. I have a dear friend who even agrees that Pokemon has become shit but she still buys them! I guess most people simply like the predictable experience and don't care how much companies are trying to milk them for all they're worth. Which is funny because BioWare is NOT giving people the same experience as before. And ironically, that's what I wanted, lol. I want old BioWare back. But I'll never get it back. At least the marketing should have made that very clear for everyone. So at least we can't call it false advertising.
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Post by dis_Op2399 on Oct 12, 2024 19:24:50 GMT
The thing I hate most about the game, reducing abilities to 3, was a design choice and had nothing to do with resources. That’s why I am not optimistic that it will get fixed in future games. They don’t see any problem with reducing mages to only 3 abilities, so it won’t get fixed. They only have 3 classes, and they couldn’t even handle designing combat for that small number. Compare that with BG3, which has lots of classes with unique mechanics, so you can choose what you like to play. BG3 is not just rogue, rogue, and more rogue like Veilguard. BG3 is all about having choices. Bioware no longer sees the value in having choice. Acksually there's the Devil May Cry/ fighting game special moves too! Wouldn't want to have any of those icky skill bars would you? No party based CRPG for you, we wouldn't want to scare off those dumb kids now would we? They need buttons to mash! This whole "how do you do fellow kids" angle about new players is so profoundly patronising, and young people can probably smell it a mile off. They care about good games just like anyone else. Elden Ring didn't jump to 25 million sales by dumbing down, brightening up and goofing out with garish colours. It was obtuse, dark and weird. FromSoft stuck to their guns just like Larian with BG3. Of course there were a few naysayers calling them Dark Souls 4 and Divinity Original Sin 3, but the sales and awards speak for themselves. Plenty of people had Inquisition as their first DA game and weren't frightened away. If something is good people will adapt and get on board.
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emissaryoflies
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 152 Likes: 429
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Post by emissaryoflies on Oct 12, 2024 21:25:53 GMT
Bg3 is something of an acidic indictment of the culture wars. It ticks every imaginable box without you really noticing/caring and does so without being sanctimonious, preachy or derivative. It’s a shame that it’s a miracle in today’s market.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 12, 2024 21:40:57 GMT
Since I'm still catching up on some stuff I've only now seen some of the outfits in this game and like everything else in the art department it's a major WTF. www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/s/KzQ9J2FbQkUsually I'm the last person you want to ask about fashion because I dislike most armor/outfits in games, including most stuff in BG3. But judging by the comments, they really ARE absolutely hideous. Like, what even is picture 9?? Or 12?!? Honestly, at this point I'm just laughing. And apparently whoever designed these said they wanted to give cosplayers a challenge?! Yeah, OK, I guess they succeeded... But who would want to cosplay any of them?? And who goes about their job with that incentive? I don't understand. I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone. The devs have said so many bizarre things, I wonder if we should send somebody to rescue them from whatever insane prison they're being held at. This is all unreal to me. I try not to be mean usually on a personal level but every single aspect of this game has terrible design imo. These can't be the same people who designed stuff for the Mass Effect trilogy. I'm sorry, but the designers of DAV are not good. I can't believe they greenlit these outfits... Or the enemy designs, or...
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Post by themikefest on Oct 12, 2024 22:15:38 GMT
Since I'm still catching up on some stuff I've only now seen some of the outfits in this game and like everything else in the art department it's a major WTF. www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/s/KzQ9J2FbQkUsually I'm the last person you want to ask about fashion because I dislike most armor/outfits in games, including most stuff in BG3. But judging by the comments, they really ARE absolutely hideous. Like, what even is picture 9?? Or 12?!? Honestly, at this point I'm just laughing. I like the comment made for #9. That's the diaper outfit.
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emissaryoflies
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 152 Likes: 429
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Sept 6, 2018 13:10:40 GMT
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Sept 4, 2018 15:11:40 GMT
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emissaryoflies
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by emissaryoflies on Oct 13, 2024 0:01:50 GMT
“Yaas slayed”. I mean. Need I go on? Mourn watch really got fucked. Lords of fortune isn’t all bad simply out of gaudiness. And the rest is very bland with few exceptions. I wonder how the hats are.
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Post by ClarkKent on Oct 13, 2024 0:51:02 GMT
Yes, I think most of the outfits look passable, but the purple background again does not flatter things here.
I'm not as hard on the game as some here, but I do look at these screenshots, and I'm reminded how all over the place the visual direction is for this game. If I didn't know it was DAV I legitimately could not guess what genre this game is meant to be.
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