emissaryoflies
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by emissaryoflies on Oct 15, 2024 16:50:14 GMT
Getting off topic slightly. I've been seeing more and more people down Origins and people who like it in the fandom. It's strange. It's as if they don't understand that they wouldn't have Veilguard without it. They wouldn't have a franchise without it. You can probably take the argument further and say that you might not have BG3, Divinity series and many other RPG staples without Origins setting the stage for what can be done as far as story telling, character writing and competent world building goes on a AAA level. The same sentiment popped up when people had criticism for Inquisition. Which would have been a far better game had it taken Origins' mission structure instead of the mmo open world approach. It's akin to downing original Terminator fans for not liking the latest iterations. The dismissiveness and disrespect reeks of dishonesty and ignorance. I used to have a somewhat negative opinion on gatekeeping. Turning the corner on that a bit too late it seems.
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Post by ClarkKent on Oct 15, 2024 17:44:23 GMT
Getting off topic slightly. I've been seeing more and more people down Origins and people who like it in the fandom. It's strange. It's as if they don't understand that they wouldn't have Veilguard without it. They wouldn't have a franchise without it. You can probably take the argument further and say that you might not have BG3, Divinity series and many other RPG staples without Origins setting the stage for what can be done as far as story telling, character writing and competent world building goes on a AAA level. The same sentiment popped up when people had criticism for Inquisition. Which would have been a far better game had it taken Origins' mission structure instead of the mmo open world approach. It's akin to downing original Terminator fans for not liking the latest iterations. The dismissiveness and disrespect reeks of dishonesty and ignorance. I used to have a somewhat negative opinion on gatekeeping. Turning the corner on that a bit too late it seems. I do agree to an extent, but Origins isn't above criticism. Andromeda, Inquisition and DA2 rightfully get criticized(by people like me), and I think fans of those games do want to bite back and remind people that Origins wasn't perfect either. It's all a little tribal, but I can't say that it's just a one way thing.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 15, 2024 18:14:35 GMT
Getting off topic slightly. I've been seeing more and more people down Origins and people who like it in the fandom. It's strange. It's as if they don't understand that they wouldn't have Veilguard without it. They wouldn't have a franchise without it. You can probably take the argument further and say that you might not have BG3, Divinity series and many other RPG staples without Origins setting the stage for what can be done as far as story telling, character writing and competent world building goes on a AAA level. The same sentiment popped up when people had criticism for Inquisition. Which would have been a far better game had it taken Origins' mission structure instead of the mmo open world approach. It's akin to downing original Terminator fans for not liking the latest iterations. The dismissiveness and disrespect reeks of dishonesty and ignorance. I used to have a somewhat negative opinion on gatekeeping. Turning the corner on that a bit too late it seems. Some people were like this about ME1 when the Andromeda shitstorm hit too. I think it's what naturally happens when people come to a franchise later and are used to the more action oriented gameplay. It's not the same as when you start with the first game and been a fan for like 15 years. I consider ME1 the best in the franchise even though the gameplay did not age well. But it wasn't about that for me. Yes, I have way more fun replaying 2 and 3 but the storytelling was the best and I don't rate it less now because it didn't age well. I guess when you play the first game later you're missing the nostalgia/memory of how amazing the experience was at the time. There's definitely always a shift in the audience over the years. I remember all the MP dude bros flooding BSN when ME3 came out. They didn't even play the SP! BioWare has ALWAYS tried to reel in the crowd of what was popular at the time and it has arguably made their games worse for it. (I played the hell out of ME3MP, so I kinda love them for creating something amazing almost by accident/greed, ironically). I think these attempts to pander to the masses that may or may not have been due to EA has always been been a bit of a problem leading to different types of players wanting different things from their games. Romance has become a HUGE part of BioWare games for a very vocal group of fans who are probably over-represented on social media. I would hazard a guess that BioWare has more female fans than male ones by now because of it. The more colorful aesthetic is also something that women like more than men probably. I've felt for years that BioWare games are made for straight women and gay people now. Which is fine, I'm a woman myself benefiting from that. But I bet a huge part of their original fanbase feels alienated. And has been since at least DAI. So now you have the people who love what they've seen of Veilguard because it's more like DAI and those who are disappointed that it's again like DAI and not DAO. But then again the internet is not representative of the average player, I bet. And a lot of people will probably buy this game because they liked Dragon Age all those years ago and have fond memories of it. End of story. No drama. Same with a future Mass Effect 5. People buy more of the franchise they have good memories of. Andromeda bombing probably doesn't matter all that much. You tell people that ME5 is a continuation of the trilogy in the Milky Way and millions will be on board again. Nostalgia drives sales like crazy. I'm curious how well DAV will sell just by being a new Dragon Age. Most people don't follow pre-release PR closely. They don't discuss and obsess. They just buy when the game releases or not based on how well they liked the series. My guess anyway. A bad game can sell great just by franchise name/reputation. DA has not had a bad game release yet. Some people were disappointed with DAI but it wasn't mostly negative like MEA. It won GOTY after all. I'm actually worried that if the game has bad writing but sells really well BioWare will be allowed to exist to release more mediocre games. MEA and Anthem didn't lose EA any money at least, right? Otherwise BioWare would probably have been axed by now. I'd much rather see BioWare closed down than suffer through more mediocre releases. But that's just selfish me as a consumer.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Exalt the Dwarf Age!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Oct 15, 2024 19:02:25 GMT
I will never be a Rook with an Antivan Crows background, because Bioware forgot that everyone from that region has a particular accent, and American versus British voice acting won't cover it.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 15, 2024 19:27:58 GMT
I will never be a Rook with an Antivan Crows background, because Bioware forgot that everyone from that region has a particular accent, and American versus British voice acting won't cover it. I didn't even think of that! I wasn't going to play a crow anyway but good point.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 15, 2024 19:29:29 GMT
So. A little over two weeks away. Anyone pre-ordered or planning on buying on release? Speaking for myself, I'm going to wait for reviews and watch some playthroughs before buying. How 'bout y'all? Nope, I only preorder games that I know for sure that I'll like and enjoy. As for DA4... I'll be watching play throughs before deciding to buy or not, and only if it has gotten a price drop (around about £20).
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LawBringerSR2
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Oct 15, 2024 19:37:26 GMT
I will never be a Rook with an Antivan Crows background, because Bioware forgot that everyone from that region has a particular accent, and American versus British voice acting won't cover it. Wait, Crows are not going to have their usual Antivan accent? BORING
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Oct 15, 2024 19:40:37 GMT
So. A little over two weeks away. Anyone pre-ordered or planning on buying on release? Speaking for myself, I'm going to wait for reviews and watch some playthroughs before buying. How 'bout y'all? Nope, I only preorder games that I know for sure that I'll like and enjoy. As for DA4... I'll be watching play throughs before deciding to buy or not, and only if it has gotten a price drop (around about £20). I never preorder any game anymore, and I only buy a game at the outrageous full price after doing some research and concluding I'm really going to like it enough that it's worth its price
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 15, 2024 19:45:40 GMT
Nope, I only preorder games that I know for sure that I'll like and enjoy. As for DA4... I'll be watching play throughs before deciding to buy or not, and only if it has gotten a price drop (around about £20). I never preorder any game anymore, and I only buy a game at the outrageous full price after doing some research and concluding I'm really going to like it enough that it's worth its price I'm really picky about what games I preorder. This year alone I only pre-ordered one game (Space Marine 2).
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 15, 2024 19:49:10 GMT
The last game I pre-ordered was DAI, lol. And only because I wanted the stag mount. I don't even buy on release 99% of the time. There's no reason to pay so much money for a game I could play later, I'll even have the much better experience after the game got patched and maybe even received DLC in the meantime.
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ewigDunkelheit
N3
Exalt the Dwarf Age!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Oct 15, 2024 19:55:09 GMT
Wait, Crows are not going to have their usual Antivan accent? BORING All Crow npcs will have the accent, as far as I know. I was just referring to voice acting for Rook.
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Post by Envisionary on Oct 15, 2024 20:16:04 GMT
I'll be spoiling myself on everything then maybe buying it at a discount like I did with Inquisition and I'll be fine with that.
I don't buy many games day one anymore and this is not one of them to me. Too many things off with it.
Three abilities, lame mage skill trees again, chaotic good Rook, what looks like mostly good natured companions with identical dialogue who don't really exist in combat, forced recruitment, questionable writing, the Keep.
It's a no from me, sis.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Oct 15, 2024 20:33:13 GMT
Getting off topic slightly. I've been seeing more and more people down Origins and people who like it in the fandom. It's strange. It's as if they don't understand that they wouldn't have Veilguard without it. They wouldn't have a franchise without it. You can probably take the argument further and say that you might not have BG3, Divinity series and many other RPG staples without Origins setting the stage for what can be done as far as story telling, character writing and competent world building goes on a AAA level. The same sentiment popped up when people had criticism for Inquisition. Which would have been a far better game had it taken Origins' mission structure instead of the mmo open world approach. It's akin to downing original Terminator fans for not liking the latest iterations. The dismissiveness and disrespect reeks of dishonesty and ignorance. I used to have a somewhat negative opinion on gatekeeping. Turning the corner on that a bit too late it seems. Some people simply have to cut down past classics in order to try and make the New Hotness look better. Especially bad in this case because DAO was a spiritual successor to Bioware's own Baldur's Gate games, which are literally what put them on the map, and continue to be emulated to this day; from Baldur's Gate 3 to Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity games, to Owlcat's Pathfinder games jus tto name a few.
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Oct 15, 2024 21:02:24 GMT
Wait, Crows are not going to have their usual Antivan accent? BORING All Crow npcs will have the accent, as far as I know. I was just referring to voice acting for Rook. I was referring to the player character too
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Post by Guardian on Oct 15, 2024 22:16:56 GMT
Getting off topic slightly. I've been seeing more and more people down Origins and people who like it in the fandom. It's strange. It's as if they don't understand that they wouldn't have Veilguard without it. They wouldn't have a franchise without it. You can probably take the argument further and say that you might not have BG3, Divinity series and many other RPG staples without Origins setting the stage for what can be done as far as story telling, character writing and competent world building goes on a AAA level. The same sentiment popped up when people had criticism for Inquisition. Which would have been a far better game had it taken Origins' mission structure instead of the mmo open world approach. It's akin to downing original Terminator fans for not liking the latest iterations. The dismissiveness and disrespect reeks of dishonesty and ignorance. I used to have a somewhat negative opinion on gatekeeping. Turning the corner on that a bit too late it seems. I do agree to an extent, but Origins isn't above criticism. Andromeda, Inquisition and DA2 rightfully get criticized(by people like me), and I think fans of those games do want to bite back and remind people that Origins wasn't perfect either. It's all a little tribal, but I can't say that it's just a one way thing. Exactly - no such thing as a perfect game. I love ME 2 - it's the best of the trilogy; to say NOTHING of it's giant plot holes in the story is an understatement. I'll be the first to say that the story of 2 is hot garbage. But that cast and the character stories more than made up for it. 1 has the most solid story, and in a vacuum, it can't be beat. However, compared to 2 and 3 for combat, 1 just feels like pressing the "I win" button. Origins had it's fair share of issues too - as did both BG I and BG II. As I said, no game is perfect - there will always be things about a game to go, "Why did they do that/make that choice?" This is why I don't get the other fans that claim that Andromeda was the best thing since ME 1. I hope the wardens aren't given the idiot ball again. They probably will be, my guess is because since they "aren't certainly heroic" by the current thoughts coming out of BioWare, my guess is they're going to be beaten with the idiot stick again, to justify why you'll be taking control of them. Remember - Grey Wardens, while their actions overall are heroic, they are by-any-means-necessary, including everyone's favorite school of magic - Blood Magic! So, my guess is we'll be shown that, once again, the Wardens are "bad" because they got fooled into the calling, or that somehow the joining is linked to blood magic, is why they're being manipulated or some dumb reason like that, and therefore should be overthrown and taken out and reformed.
I'd be shocked if they weren't planning the same thing with the Crows, given how we keep hearing things about the "Anvtivan Crow Civil War" (I know it's been said on these boards recently...I forget specifics). I think it's why we know little of the Lords of Fortune and why the Shadow Dragons are fighting to rebel against Tevinter traditions.
Probably because of the religious overtones of the mage/templar conflict that has still been building (despite "resolving" in Inquisition), is why it's pretty much being largely ignored. Inquisition kind of really sealed and hammered home why the Templars are "bad". Now, I think by showing us Tevinter, we're seeing why the mages are "bad". I could be reaching with this last bit, who knows?
This is all just a theory, but I do think they're trying to redeem or reform "evil/grey" factions as to make Thedas a "friendlier, more welcoming" place. And why the Qun keeps getting changed, and while I do agree sacrificing the Chargers is a dick move, those that still did it should not be shamed for their choices, is what it feels like.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 16, 2024 6:05:49 GMT
Origin problem was like the overall experience was a blast, but moment to moment it was like "oh no the fade, start to weep" "Oh joy I'm now in the Deep Road, torrent of tears". But otherwise the origin idea was wonderful, and I don't think any game did it since? Companions were quite good for their time. Your actual origin and sometimes romance option could have quite the influence. Human (non mage) could end up King/Queen consort. Morrigan/Alistair story was nicely weaved into the main plot. Played mages and had lots of spells. Could be a healer too. Wild times. Loghain as a secret companion. The warden could be a total psycho. Several high points, Ostagar. The Broodmother ( ) the Landmeet, the final battle. Ending choice,sacrifice yourself, a fellow warden or get involved in a shady ritual to save the soul of your swore ennemy without even knowing what it is, really. It was quite rich roleplay wise and we're never getting that again from Bioware.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 16, 2024 6:17:29 GMT
The last game I pre-ordered was DAI, lol. And only because I wanted the stag mount. I don't even buy on release 99% of the time. There's no reason to pay so much money for a game I could play later, I'll even have the much better experience after the game got patched and maybe even received DLC in the meantime. I hardly ever buy on release either. A lot of times I can't, since I deliberately use a gaming rig that's well behind the times.(I'm not sure my potato will actually run Veilguard. I'm below min on the CPU, although I've gotten away with that before. Last year I made exceptions for BG3 since I was in EA, and Starfield since I wanted to experience the jank for myself. The latter was a bit disappointing, since it mostly ran well. I did have one fun bug where my ship's bridge started sticking out of the hull at a bizarre angle and everywhere we landed we'd destroy the spaceport. But I expected more.
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on Oct 16, 2024 9:05:20 GMT
Getting off topic slightly. I've been seeing more and more people down Origins and people who like it in the fandom. It's strange. It's as if they don't understand that they wouldn't have Veilguard without it. They wouldn't have a franchise without it. You can probably take the argument further and say that you might not have BG3, Divinity series and many other RPG staples without Origins setting the stage for what can be done as far as story telling, character writing and competent world building goes on a AAA level. The same sentiment popped up when people had criticism for Inquisition. Which would have been a far better game had it taken Origins' mission structure instead of the mmo open world approach. It's akin to downing original Terminator fans for not liking the latest iterations. The dismissiveness and disrespect reeks of dishonesty and ignorance. I used to have a somewhat negative opinion on gatekeeping. Turning the corner on that a bit too late it seems. Keep in mind that many of those people are the same seal-clappers that will tell you MEA was a good or great game and will make any rationalization to excuse current changes people are pushing back against. For too many of them as long as they get their silly romances it's all good...no matter how much slop they have to eat along the way.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Oct 16, 2024 9:20:36 GMT
Ugh.
Just watched a gameplay video and BioWare is doing it again - the good old "we're standing here having a little chat when we really should be getting our asses in gear and DO something". Remember the Chargers vs Qunari decision in DAI? You can see the action going on in the background, you want to rush in and sort it out, but nooo, you're forced into a conversation so you can "make a decision". And sure enough, in the video I watched Rook and his gang do the same thing... twice within a few minutes of gameplay. They're talking to people in very obvious mortal danger and instead of rushing in and cutting them loose and maybe applying some healing magic or potions, they stand there and chat.
What's next, asking directions to the nearest pub from a random villager while he's being gnawed on by two darkspawn?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Oct 16, 2024 9:45:39 GMT
Origin problem was like the overall experience was a blast, but moment to moment it was like "oh no the fade, start to weep" "Oh joy I'm now in the Deep Road, torrent of tears". But otherwise the origin idea was wonderful, and I don't think any game did it since? Companions were quite good for their time. Your actual origin and sometimes romance option could have quite the influence. Human (non mage) could end up King/Queen consort. Morrigan/Alistair story was nicely weaved into the main plot. Played mages and had lots of spells. Could be a healer too. Wild times. Loghain as a secret companion. The warden could be a total psycho. Several high points, Ostagar. The Broodmother ( ) the Landmeet, the final battle. Ending choice,sacrifice yourself, a fellow warden or get involved in a shady ritual to save the soul of your swore ennemy without even knowing what it is, really. It was quite rich roleplay wise and we're never getting that again from Bioware. You just reminded me why I love Origins. The Grey Wardens are the biggest YottaChads in the DA universe and nobody can't convince me otherwise
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 16, 2024 9:50:24 GMT
All Crow npcs will have the accent, as far as I know. I was just referring to voice acting for Rook. I was referring to the player character too May be Rook was trained specifically to be an undercover operative in other lands, so they have been taught to use an accent that doesn't shriek "I'm from Antiva." Lucanis has a strong accent but I don't think he is into socialising, just striking from the shadows. It might also explain why Varric thought Rook would be a good second in command because they weren't obviously from their country of origin. The same would apply to a Rook from the Mourn Watch, since I assume the majority of them would be natives of Nevarra but perhaps they were originally recruited from outside that country, hence the different accent.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 16, 2024 9:53:41 GMT
Getting off topic slightly. I've been seeing more and more people down Origins and people who like it in the fandom. It's strange. It's as if they don't understand that they wouldn't have Veilguard without it. They wouldn't have a franchise without it. You can probably take the argument further and say that you might not have BG3, Divinity series and many other RPG staples without Origins setting the stage for what can be done as far as story telling, character writing and competent world building goes on a AAA level. The same sentiment popped up when people had criticism for Inquisition. Which would have been a far better game had it taken Origins' mission structure instead of the mmo open world approach. It's akin to downing original Terminator fans for not liking the latest iterations. The dismissiveness and disrespect reeks of dishonesty and ignorance. I used to have a somewhat negative opinion on gatekeeping. Turning the corner on that a bit too late it seems. Keep in mind that many of those people are the same seal-clappers that will tell you MEA was a good or great game and will make any rationalization to excuse current changes people are pushing back against. For too many of them as long as they get their silly romances it's all good...no matter how much slop they have to eat along the way. As much as I enjoy romances in RPGs, the way they overtake some fandom in a major way is bizarre. They're fun, or drama fueled and add something to a game but when you have a 100 hours RPG it's a drop in a bucket. Same as overtly companion focused stuff, sometimes it makes sense to have little slice of life moments, but in small doses. As much as I enjoy BG3, the added epilogue kinda bored me? Don't really care to hear about your farm animals, how you're now a teacher or you're adopting orphans. There's virtual novel or farm games like Stardew Valley if I want some of that. Rather have companion reactive to main plot or with interesting side quests.
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helios969
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Post by helios969 on Oct 16, 2024 10:19:29 GMT
Keep in mind that many of those people are the same seal-clappers that will tell you MEA was a good or great game and will make any rationalization to excuse current changes people are pushing back against. For too many of them as long as they get their silly romances it's all good...no matter how much slop they have to eat along the way. As much as I enjoy romances in RPGs, the way they overtake some fandom in a major way is bizarre. They're fun, or drama fueled and add something to a game but when you have a 100 hours RPG it's a drop in a bucket. Same as overtly companion focused stuff, sometimes it makes sense to have little slice of life moments, but in small doses. As much as I enjoy BG3, the added epilogue kinda bored me? Don't really care to hear about your farm animals, how you're now a teacher or you're adopting orphans. There's virtual novel or farm games like Stardew Valley if I want some of that. Rather have companion reactive to main plot or with interesting side quests. Pretty much feel the same way. This stuff should be in addition to good storytelling...but it's gotten to the point where you're getting that instead of good story...Me, I'd much rather have fade-to-black cutscenes and/or tactic acknowledgement to confirm romance choices if it means I get major impact of stuff like drinking from the well and old god baby. I think it's poor resource management when sex scenes and companion banging is more of a priority than past choices coming to fruition. To me it's all about good storytelling...something Bioware used to be know for. Now, well...I guess we'll see...but it no longer seems to be the case.
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Post by ClarkKent on Oct 16, 2024 10:19:49 GMT
I do think Bioware got a bit lost in the sauce when it comes to companions, and romances.
Inquisition's quality was heavily concentrated in the companions and the inner circle. In Andromeda the companions had more dialogue, and just general content, than any of the prior Mass Effect companions did before.
And what did both of these games have in common? A dull storyline with a lame core villain.
Which I do believes highlights that Bioware seem to design their games backwards. I think you need a compelling story first, and then build the companions along with it - not the other way round.
For the record, I'm actually playing through ME2, and I don't think the main story is trash lol. It's fit for purpose. It may take a backseat to the companion stories, but that's built into the narrative itself. The collector mystery, the illusive man, and the suicide mission are all still compelling.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 16, 2024 12:04:41 GMT
Bioware companions have traditionally been a real strength. ME2 is still my all time favourite game.
Definitely have a real concern over all this talk about intimate(non romantic) relationships on top of my growing sense of finding less and less of them i love per game. Personally i was loved DA2's approach, where i had real fun clashing with Sebastian etc while i was bonding with Issy etc. Even in Inquisition i really appreciated the potential sheer hatred of sera relationship, trying to kill the demon cole on encountering it. I wouldn't describe any of that as intimate. Does that mean that our level of choice has been reduced? Is it going to be even more of the horrible 'wicked grace' nonsense from Inquisition.
This will be first Bioware RPG i won't be buying at launch. That's mainly a negative response to the teasers(on top of being burned by awful Andromeda). Whether it'll be utter bargain bin purchase only(to get closure) i guess time and knowledge of its nature will tell.
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