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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 18, 2024 15:48:11 GMT
Maybe console is where it'll kill it. Sure seems pretty weak on Steam. Mostly I just look at Youtube content...I remember how much it was before DAI...maybe everyone's in the wait and see mode. Console copies always sell a LOT more than PC, even for Bethesda games. The modding scene may be huge but it's a fraction of the playerbase. I don't remember how much coverage DAI got before release. I spent the pre release hype on BSN and that was all I needed. I'm avoiding DAV content on YT right now because I don't want major spoilers on the thumbnails. So I wouldn't know. I don't think the number of videos on it is necessarily indicative of future game sales. Preorders are a better metric. Which is still wild to me because why would anybody buy a game without waiting for reviews or even hands-on gameplay to make an informed decision? Especially nowadays where so many games release half broken and need extensive patching even if the game is ultimately good. There are so many games I figured I'd enjoy but I never preorder. Full price tops a week from release or so is my highest appreciation for a developer. I didn't even preorder BG3 but was happy to pay full price. I did preorder ME3 and DAI back in the day. Those were exceptions. I don't trust ANY studio anymore to deliver no questions asked. Not even CDPR. Glad I waited like 3 years to play Cyberpunk! I wonder what the preorder ratio to all sales are on average. And if the number varies a lot from game to game. I should look this up...
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Post by Guardian on Oct 18, 2024 15:57:19 GMT
Either this info will be legit once the game comes out, or some of them cause they sound mostly guesses. We knew that taash is non binary, but some people were confused about that. And the interview came after the achievements. It's very easy to guess honestly. Solas as a boss fight was inevitable i knew we will fight him at some point. Isn't the guy on NDA btw? I'm assuming he'll have a big problem if he really worked on the game. That's why for now, I still recommend taking these "leaks" with a dose of salt. Yes, past ones have been proven to be true, and some we already assumed before they were "leaked". But yes, we'll all find out the validity of these leaks when the game gets released. As for the NDA, it's why I find it hard to be legitimate, because it sounds like it'd be easy to figure out who the leaker was. We knew that taash is non binary Called that way back when they were revealed and everyone was no, no it's a she...and I was like that's the ugliest woman ever. I'm totally getting a "Crying Game" vibe from Taash...not touching that. Boy what a melt down that would cause. To be fair, it still probably will cause a meltdown. The usual suspects will latch onto it and just add it to the list of why the game should automatically be terrible. I was thinking Taash was also a guy or non-binary as well. I just feel largly ambivalent about Taash; I feel that way about 90% of the companions, really. Which, is sad, because it looks to be shaping up again like Inquisition companions - all flash, no substance. Especially in the mage department (granted, we know nothing about Emmrich outside of him being part of the Mournwatch, so he's the wildcard still).
I find it baffling that we only have two rogues, and two warriors, but three mages? So far, it has always been an equal number of all three classes (not counting DLC characters). Why the change now? Especially since I don't plan on taking a warrior since I'd probably make one, and unless Emmrich just...dazzles me somehow, I'm taking Lucian as the third slot.
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Post by Guardian on Oct 18, 2024 16:08:49 GMT
I respectfully disagree. In DAO you have Sten being taken aback that anyone would want to be something they are not. Why would a farmer want to be a warrior? Then Bull comes along and all of a sudden the Qun is accomodating of transsexualism. It seems like a weird break in world building to me. I wasn't thinking in terms of the Qun...but more of just a woman wanting to identify as a man...fight like one...live like one. Krem wasn't hitting you on the head with it...kept his mouth shut, worked hard to be a good warrior, and earned the respect of his peers. Yeah, the whole Qun thing has been all over the place from game to game. I suppose this time around they'll be completely accepting of alternative lifestyles...the polar opposite from where they started...and having conveniently forgotten Qamek and its purpose. While I agree with bierkrug it's sort of breaking the world building, I do agree more with helios here - Krem being trans was done within the world lore. Did they bend the Qun in a way to fit that lore? Maybe....you can make a case for or against it. Sten was our very little glimpse into Qunari society; so we only got to see how the Qun worked through his eyes. I think DA 2 expanded it more and made it feel more fleshed out (but Inquisition decided it had to start....making it "friendlier". I think it's also why the only dwarf option we have in Inquisition is a Carta dwarf - can't have any silly highborn dwarves from the warrior, merchant, or gods forbid, noble caste talking about life was like for them).
Krem didn't make a big deal of it, and neither did Bull. To both of them, Krem is just Krem - he's a dude. He's reliable, loyal, level-headed and commands the respect of the other Chargers and Bull.
Krem being Transgender is a non-issue. I know some will want to make it an issue, but it's not one. Just like Taash being Non-Binary; it's a non-issue. It's only an issue if it bothers you. But, at the same time, there's a respectful way of treating it, and a blatant way of treating it. With Krem, it was handled properly. We'll have to wait and see how they do it with Taash.
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Oct 18, 2024 16:42:43 GMT
Maybe console is where it'll kill it. Sure seems pretty weak on Steam. Mostly I just look at Youtube content...I remember how much it was before DAI...maybe everyone's in the wait and see mode. Console copies always sell a LOT more than PC, even for Bethesda games. The modding scene may be huge but it's a fraction of the playerbase. That's not quite true anymore. After COVID, there is a considerable amount of PC gamers and it's not longer a market you can ignore. For example as of last year, BG3 sold 10million on steam which would be roughly 50% of sales at that time. Yes console still sales more, however PC accounted for 43% of the gaming market in 2023. Keep in mind, Nintendo is completely console exclusive.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 18, 2024 16:43:57 GMT
Krems was mostly fine. I mean it was a super predictable addition because nowadays it's another checkbox you apparently have to tick. The trans character introduction in MEA was awful, so was the asari pronouns insanity. That was pure cringe modern day politics inserted where it didn't belong. Since MEA is more recent I will base my concerns on that game even if the team was different. But the vibe I get from DAV is more MEA than DAI so far.
The top surgery scars scream virtue signalling but I don't particularly care about that because it doesn't affect anything. It's just an optional body mod that a handful of players can identify with. So that is cool for them and doesn't impact my enjoyment at all.
I care if it's badly implemented virtue signalling where the narrative gets bent and retconned and doesn't fit the universe it's in. Like, in a sci-fi universe nobody should be talking about trans people and body mods because it's just so ordinary there and people can turn themselves into anything they want and others can't even tell. What you were born is completely irrelevant in certain futuristic settings.
What I always liked about BioWare's fictional worlds before MEA (but already having hints of preachiness in DAI tbh) is that they were just inclusive in the way that nobody talked about it. Sexual discrimination is not a thing in their games. That is how it should be. Characters should just be any sexuality and it shouldn't matter. That is what the real world should be like too. It should be ordinary. I always had the opinion that the best way to do inclusivity is to not make a big deal of it. Because it's not a big deal.
But the moment the media gets preachy about it it annoys me. I don't want to be "educated". I don't need that. I don't care about people's sexuality. I just want to watch or read or play a good story with cool characters doing cool things. And I'll romance characters based on how much I like them, even if I have a preference for straight romances. I'll happily switch if the straight options are unappealing. Because it's about personality for me (and looks to some degree, I won't lie). If a trans companion is amazing I might romance them as long as the romance isn't about that. It's not appealing to me as a subject in any romance constellation. But I know to some people it's an important topic so that's just what I personally want from my escapism.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 18, 2024 16:50:17 GMT
Console copies always sell a LOT more than PC, even for Bethesda games. The modding scene may be huge but it's a fraction of the playerbase. That's not quite true anymore. After COVID, there is a considerable amount of PC gamers and it's not longer a market you can ignore. For example as of last year, BG3 sold 10million on steam which would be roughly 50% of sales at that time. Yes console still sales more, however PC accounted for 43% of the gaming market in 2023. Keep in mind, Nintendo is completely console exclusive. Hmm, OK. I adamit the numbers I had in my head were pre-covid, something like 75% console. BG3 probably sold especially well on PC because it attracts the hardcore nerds, lol. Honestly though I would have expected the PC sales to decrease more and more since people play so much on their phones now, plus PC gaming has become pretty expensive lately due to the inflated GPU prices. Which is also why the number of people who play games has skyrocketed. It's the mobile market. They're not necessarily dedicated gamers but people who play a farming game on their commute home. Few people seem to even still buy gaming PCs was my impression. But I guess I was wrong. Interesting!
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Post by biggydx on Oct 18, 2024 16:59:58 GMT
I think most of Inquisitions sales came from console IIRC.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Oct 18, 2024 19:03:02 GMT
I find it baffling that we only have two rogues, and two warriors, but three mages? So far, it has always been an equal number of all three classes (not counting DLC characters). Why the change now? Especially since I don't plan on taking a warrior since I'd probably make one, and unless Emmrich just...dazzles me somehow, I'm taking Lucian as the third slot.
Not exactly. Having uneven class spread is the rule, while even spread is the exception. DAI was the only game that had an even 3 warriors / 3 rogues / 3 mages spread in the main game. DA2 was almost even for the main game: 2 warriors / 2 rogues / 2 mages among the main companions, with Carver and Bethany skewing with a +1 to their respective class for Act 1. Then for DLC, Sebastian can skew towards rogue for the entire game if you have him and Tallis skews towards rogue as well for the DLC she's part of. DAO, however, was heavily skewed towards warriors, with a total of 5 warriors in the main game (Alistair, Sten, Oghren, Loghain, Dog) / 2 rogues / 2 mages. If you add Shale, there were 6 warriors in DAO's main campaign. DAA was even with 2 warriors / 2 rogues / 2 mages, but Leliana's Song had 2 warriors and one mage, Golems of Amgarrak had 2 warriors and a rogue and Witch Hunt had 2 warriors and a mage.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 18, 2024 19:37:07 GMT
I think most of Inquisitions sales came from console IIRC. To an almost absurd point, and they were heavily skewed to the PS4. It was an actual conversation on BSN Prime when they were promoting the weekly DAIMP challenge targets. Old gen consoles were combined and by far the lowest. Then PC, then a big jump to XB1 and another big jump to PS4. Makes sense that people who have played Inquisition would keep to their preferred platform for DAVe.
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Post by fraggle on Oct 18, 2024 21:25:34 GMT
I respectfully disagree. In DAO you have Sten being taken aback that anyone would want to be something they are not. Why would a farmer want to be a warrior? Then Bull comes along and all of a sudden the Qun is accomodating of transsexualism. It seems like a weird break in world building to me. I wasn't thinking in terms of the Qun...but more of just a woman wanting to identify as a man...fight like one...live like one. Krem wasn't hitting you on the head with it...kept his mouth shut, worked hard to be a good warrior, and earned the respect of his peers. Yeah, the whole Qun thing has been all over the place from game to game. I suppose this time around they'll be completely accepting of alternative lifestyles...the polar opposite from where they started...and having conveniently forgotten Qamek and its purpose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chargers aren't following the Qun, they only follow Iron Bull with their merc band. Krem was doing training as a soldier back in Tevinter and has never converted to the Qun. So I don't think that contradicts Sten or the lore? Qamek was at least mentioned/used in one of the Tevinter Nights stories that were setting up Veilguard. Some awful shit that was. But let's see if that actually plays a role in the game.
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Post by shagohad on Oct 18, 2024 22:23:48 GMT
I wasn't thinking in terms of the Qun...but more of just a woman wanting to identify as a man...fight like one...live like one. Krem wasn't hitting you on the head with it...kept his mouth shut, worked hard to be a good warrior, and earned the respect of his peers. Yeah, the whole Qun thing has been all over the place from game to game. I suppose this time around they'll be completely accepting of alternative lifestyles...the polar opposite from where they started...and having conveniently forgotten Qamek and its purpose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chargers aren't following the Qun, they only follow Iron Bull with their merc band. Krem was doing training as a soldier back in Tevinter and has never converted to the Qun. So I don't think that contradicts Sten or the lore? Qamek was at least mentioned/used in one of the Tevinter Nights stories that were setting up Veilguard. Some awful shit that was. But let's see if that actually plays a role in the game. IIRC, and I might not (it's been awhile since I played DAI), in that convo where Bull explains why he doesn't when the Qun to conquer the south he says that the Qun has no problem with trans people. Even though, two games ago, Sten had to disassociate a female warden from her womenhood to be able to see her as a warrior, as the gender roles in the Qun were that strict.
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Post by fortlowe on Oct 18, 2024 23:16:16 GMT
Tourist back with two more cents.That sinking feeling about this game is getting worse all the time. Someone should tell David he is not helping. No one with a brain, pron-brained incel or no, thinks beauty is a frame. It's a spectrum. And obviously from the sales projection, a lot of folks, myself included, find that part of that spectrum is being deliberately left out of this game.
Hopefully this can get fixed in a Cyberpunk style patch. Shrink the heads to more traditional proportions, leave the hot people you have in there in there, add the hot people you didn't put in there in there, and make the entire party Rooksexual, regardless of pronouns.
Those plausibly doable fixes would likely leave the haters very little fodder to gnaw on, except for the objective merits of the game's narrative and gameplay without compromising the overdue representation this game is rightly championing.
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Post by fraggle on Oct 18, 2024 23:40:02 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chargers aren't following the Qun, they only follow Iron Bull with their merc band. Krem was doing training as a soldier back in Tevinter and has never converted to the Qun. So I don't think that contradicts Sten or the lore? Qamek was at least mentioned/used in one of the Tevinter Nights stories that were setting up Veilguard. Some awful shit that was. But let's see if that actually plays a role in the game. IIRC, and I might not (it's been awhile since I played DAI), in that convo where Bull explains why he doesn't when the Qun to conquer the south he says that the Qun has no problem with trans people. Even though, two games ago, Sten had to disassociate a female warden from her womenhood to be able to see her as a warrior, as the gender roles in the Qun were that strict. Gotcha, for some reason I thought this was all about Krem being a Qun convert when he is not... It was a bit hard to follow the conversation in here. Some posts seem to have been removed for some reason?
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 19, 2024 6:42:24 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chargers aren't following the Qun, they only follow Iron Bull with their merc band. Krem was doing training as a soldier back in Tevinter and has never converted to the Qun. So I don't think that contradicts Sten or the lore? Qamek was at least mentioned/used in one of the Tevinter Nights stories that were setting up Veilguard. Some awful shit that was. But let's see if that actually plays a role in the game. IIRC, and I might not (it's been awhile since I played DAI), in that convo where Bull explains why he doesn't when the Qun to conquer the south he says that the Qun has no problem with trans people. Even though, two games ago, Sten had to disassociate a female warden from her womenhood to be able to see her as a warrior, as the gender roles in the Qun were that strict. There's no contradiction. Sten's problem with a female Warden is that she isn't trans. This doesn't fit the Qun. (You can't actually play a trans character in DA:O, AFAIK)
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 19, 2024 7:00:04 GMT
Since this is the skepticism thread... I'm not sold on the graphics.
Maybe it's just the lighting for the stuff I've seen, but so far the game looks a bit worse than BG3. It shouldn't.
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Post by helios969 on Oct 19, 2024 7:39:31 GMT
Since this is the skepticism thread... I'm not sold on the graphics. Maybe it's just the lighting for the stuff I've seen, but so far the game looks a bit worse than BG3. It shouldn't. Definitely not a high fidelity game...plus it has a weird mishmash between the nice looking environments and more "cartoony" character art style. On the flipside it should look good on a midgrade gaming pc/laptop. Truthfully this bothers me less than the rather wooden-looking facial animations I've seen...I haven't seen much expressiveness in companions or npc's. BG3 did all this substantially better than what I've seen thus far.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 19, 2024 7:46:05 GMT
I haven't seen much expressiveness in companions or npc's. BG3 did all this substantially better than what I've seen thus far. DAV didn't get mocap right? It always makes a huge difference. The Uncharted games from a decade ago still have better facial animations than most games today because of really good mocap. BG3 while really good looks worse too. And then there's TLOU that has facial animations so lifelike it's magical. BioWare has never had good facial animations. It's not something I even expect. So that detail is a handwaved by me. Would it be more immersive if they had decent mocap? Hell, yeah! But bad animations never stopped me from getting emotionally invested in their games before.
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Post by helios969 on Oct 19, 2024 8:18:33 GMT
Out of what females that are available in Veilguard, Harding is my first (and only) choice. As it stands now that's where I'm at...I'd give her a 7.5. I said 7 tops for Neve but for me she's more 6.5...I downgrade her for that ridiculous hat. Bellara I'd rank a 4.5...which is sad since I have a preference for Asian women...plus she seems like she's gonna be PeeBee 2.0. As for Yennefer, I'd sooner go after Philippa before Yen....talk about a REAL Ice Princess I'm guessing you didn't read the books...Philippa is quite a piece of work.
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Post by helios969 on Oct 19, 2024 8:21:13 GMT
I haven't seen much expressiveness in companions or npc's. BG3 did all this substantially better than what I've seen thus far. DAV didn't get mocap right? It always makes a huge difference. The Uncharted games from a decade ago still have better facial animations than most games today because of really good mocap. BG3 while really good looks worse too. And then there's TLOU that has facial animations so lifelike it's magical. BioWare has never had good facial animations. It's not something I even expect. So that detail is a handwaved by me. Would it be more immersive if they had decent mocap? Hell, yeah! But bad animations never stopped me from getting emotionally invested in their games before. Huh, I thought they did mocap...that would actually explain a lot. I'm thinking back to Inquisition and I think the cutscene facial animations of companions were plenty expressive. What's changed?
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 19, 2024 8:24:59 GMT
Huh, I thought they did mocap...that would actually explain a lot. I'm thinking back to Inquisition and I think the cutscene facial animations of companions were plenty expressive. What's changed? I actually don't know. but it would be a first and seeing how serviceable the animations are I just assumed no mocap again. There's no way mocap looks this bad,lol.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 19, 2024 8:36:52 GMT
I'm guessing you didn't read the books...Philippa is quite a piece of work. Super off topic but yeahhh, Philippa is not a nice person. After reading the books it's even difficult to pick Triss. Triss is a lot less annoying and dumb and backstabbing in the games though so I can't blame people for picking her over Yen. Yennefer just protects her kind heart really well as a necessity given the people she deals with. Philippa is a cold bitch!And in the game she's not even particularly sexy imo. And her voice is really off putting and old sounding. Always bothered me. Neve looks good in her casual outfit without that awful hat to me. It's that flat bored voice that puts me off. Really liked her in that short story, and when I get round to playing this game I plan on romancing her with male Rook. Harding looks average to me but miles better than in DAI where she had a potato head. Love her voice actress though. Liara stole my heart in ME3 and I almost dumped Kaidan for her. We'll see if Harding does the same.
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Post by helios969 on Oct 19, 2024 8:51:20 GMT
Super off topic but yeahhh, Philippa is not a nice person. After reading the books it's even difficult to pick Triss. Triss is a lot less annoying and dumb and backstabbing in the games though so I can't blame people for picking her over Yen. Yennefer just protects her kind heart really well as a necessity given the people she deals with. Philippa is a cold bitch!And in the game she's not even particularly sexy imo. And her voice is really off putting and old sounding. Always bothered me. One of the things I really liked about the books were how flawed the characters were: Philippa plain cold-hearted (though for some reason I did find her sexy in the game - don't know why), Trish definitely more likeable in the game, hated Yen in the game but after reading the series and seeing what she went through and endured for Ciri really prefer her now. Neve looks good in her casual outfit without that awful hat to me. It's that flat bored voice that puts me off. Really liked her in that short story, and when I get round to playing this game I plan on romancing her with male Rook. I agree with her hair down she does look better...like in all these sorts of things the personality will end up mattering more than the pure physical. Harding looks average to me but miles better than in DAI where she had a potato head. Love her voice actress though. Liara stole my heart in ME3 and I almost dumped Kaidan for her. We'll see if Harding does the same. I actually really love her redesign...cheekbones and eyes in particular. I don't care for them going overboard on the freckles though. But since the companions are pretty much a DEI checklist they had to go overboard to make sure we all knew she was a ginger.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 19, 2024 8:55:40 GMT
Philippa is hot but the hottest babe in Witcher is Iorveth.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 19, 2024 9:13:50 GMT
But since the companions are pretty much a DEI checklist they had to go overboard to make sure we all knew she was a ginger. Wait, are gingers an oppressed group now too??? I thought ginger women were always considered hot. It's ginger men who have it rough, it seems.
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Post by helios969 on Oct 19, 2024 9:23:44 GMT
But since the companions are pretty much a DEI checklist they had to go overboard to make sure we all knew she was a ginger. Wait, are gingers an oppressed group now too??? I thought ginger women were always considered hot. It's ginger men who have it rough, it seems. Actually, dunno...though as a ginger man I did pretty well when I was young...I guess it just depends. As far as oppressed groups go isn't that pretty much everyone nowadays? LOL. Seems like...too much victim mentality in society.
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