luketrevelyan
N4
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 1, 2020 19:40:59 GMT
I'm hyped! I have been waiting a long time to finally get something of actual substance to discuss and it is fun to see everyone's initial impressions and theories even if most will end up being wrong.
For my first PT I'm leaning towards a male dwarf rogue. It has been a while since I played as a dwarf (I think it goes back to a 2013 PT of Origins) so I'm really overdue. Somehow I never have in DAI and my next anticipated PT would likely be a female elf to finally do the Solas romance.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 1, 2020 19:46:03 GMT
Friendship and rivalry had some hiccups but I wish it had been perfected rather than abandoned. I loved that having a character disagree with me meant I still could unlock the same content with them (personal quests, cutscenes, stuff like that), just framed differently. I thought it really added to the roleplaying experience, since I could play my Hawke as I intended, without having to worry about losing content based on not having high enough approval with someone. I'd love for that to come back. Just my personal feelings though. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png) But regardless, I don't actually see it coming back after being absent for a whole game. As long as I like the characters, I will be perfectly happy. I can't wait to learn more about the cast! Well they brought back the atrocious approval system so I don’t see why they can’t revisit or try something less appalling.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 1, 2020 20:07:33 GMT
Friendship/Rivalry was an absolute disaster. If they ever bring it back, it needs to be a part of a bigger system. Like a two axis scale, one being friendship/rivalry and the other being approval/disapproval. Two-axis is an interesting idea, I could imagine something like “Needs You” vs. “Likes You”. With “high need + low like” being stuff like: * needs you to accomplish a task (this mostly already happens in traditional approval systems) * thinks you’re a trainwreck, but seeing that trainwreck makes them feel better about their own life * is physically or emotionally horny for some dumb quirk the PC has, even if they hate the rest of their actions * thinks you’re on the cusp of being converted to their point of view, and is highly motivated to proselytize With the character leaving only if they have both low need and low like for the PC. Or maybe, to make it extra spicy, emotionally reserved characters might leave if they have high “like” but low “need”.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 1, 2020 20:26:24 GMT
I want Leggy fanart!
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 1, 2020 20:46:31 GMT
since I could play my Hawke as I intended, without having to worry about losing content based on not having high enough approval with someone Unless you played a middle of the road Hawke, who didn't have extremist views or changed their views over the course of the game. Then some companions dialogue would not open up at all until you advanced enough on the metre either way. For some reason, on one play through, I complimented Merrill's eyes as a gentle flirt, I think it was in Act 1, and then forgot all about it, proceeding with my Fenris romance. Then in Act 3, the rivalry metre hit the point where the next stage of the romance should trigger and Merrill turned up on my doorstep seeming to think we were in a relationship. It may have been a bug but I think it had something to do with the fact that things only trigger when the metre reached a certain point. Then there was Isabella. If you didn't get that friendship/rivalry metre up enough, you never saw her again after Act 2. I discovered the difference seemed to be to flirt with her, which got friendship points, but then say you had changed your mind when she turned up for sex, because that was literally the only difference between having her come back or leave for good. Also I hated that you felt obliged to hit the heart icon to keep a romance alive and yet would have preferred choosing a different option because I felt that flirting wasn't appropriate at the time. Still that was no worse than the difference between getting Iron Bull's personal quest or not was killing one dragon. First run, I didn't kill any dragons, I was a conservationist, and so never got the personal quest. Went back to just before the Arbor Wilds, killed a dragon and hey presto, now I've got the personal quest. Why should that matter when deciding on whether or not the Qun wish to work with me? So actually I'd rather go back to something along the lines of DAO, split the dialogue between what is general and what is romance related, so I know that the latter is not interfering with my finding out stuff in the former category. That was particularly annoying with Solas, where I had to take the heart icon if I wanted to keep the romance going but that could mean I missed out on quizzing him about something. Mind you, I suppose with Solas that was appropriate as it was probably intentional.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: cardiaheart
PSN: Natigator1213
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Post by Heart on Sept 1, 2020 21:03:41 GMT
since I could play my Hawke as I intended, without having to worry about losing content based on not having high enough approval with someone Unless you played a middle of the road Hawke, who didn't have extremist views or changed their views over the course of the game. Then some companions dialogue would not open up at all until you advanced enough on the metre either way. For some reason, on one play through, I complimented Merrill's eyes as a gentle flirt, I think it was in Act 1, and then forgot all about it, proceeding with my Fenris romance. Then in Act 3, the rivalry metre hit the point where the next stage of the romance should trigger and Merrill turned up on my doorstep seeming to think we were in a relationship. It may have been a bug but I think it had something to do with the fact that things only trigger when the metre reached a certain point. Then there was Isabella. If you didn't get that friendship/rivalry metre up enough, you never saw her again after Act 2. I discovered the difference seemed to be to flirt with her, which got friendship points, but then say you had changed your mind when she turned up for sex, because that was literally the only difference between having her come back or leave for good. Also I hated that you felt obliged to hit the heart icon to keep a romance alive and yet would have preferred choosing a different option because I felt that flirting wasn't appropriate at the time. Still that was no worse than the difference between getting Iron Bull's personal quest or not was killing one dragon. First run, I didn't kill any dragons, I was a conservationist, and so never got the personal quest. Went back to just before the Arbor Wilds, killed a dragon and hey presto, now I've got the personal quest. Why should that matter when deciding on whether or not the Qun wish to work with me? So actually I'd rather go back to something along the lines of DAO, split the dialogue between what is general and what is romance related, so I know that the latter is not interfering with my finding out stuff in the former category. That was particularly annoying with Solas, where I had to take the heart icon if I wanted to keep the romance going but that could mean I missed out on quizzing him about something. Mind you, I suppose with Solas that was appropriate as it was probably intentional. Oh I definitely agree it wasn't perfect! And I am just talking from my own POV as someone who plays very pro-mage, so certain characters I befriended or rivaled very easily, unlike DAI where I felt like I had to tiptoe around the subject to avoid companions leaving. I like the ideas others have floated in the thread, about some kind of a two-axis scale. But you're right, its still based on a scale where you have to reach a certain threshold in order to activate certain triggers. I guess I just like that scale going in both directions rather than just one. And I don't think you have to take every heart icon to keep the romance going in both DAI and DA2. But I do remember DA2 having quite a few occasions were flirting was your only chance to get friendship points.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 1, 2020 21:31:48 GMT
And I don't think you have to take every heart icon to keep the romance going in both DAI and DA2 I've discovered that is the case with DA2 now but the first time I played it I couldn't be sure. Likewise, I know it didn't affect some companions if you took it or not, which is why I mentioned Solas because there was one particular one, I think it was the first time with him in the Fade, where if you didn't you could lose all chance of starting it. I just found the DAO system easier to follow. Now I never had a problem with Mass Effect with the blue and red interrupts, so may be they could do a variant on that.
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Post by gum on Sept 1, 2020 21:33:12 GMT
I think that a setting like DA4 being a smaller group of people fighting against larger powers is a prime place to try something new with its relationship system or to borrow ideas from DA2 (another smaller setting), considering that my choices as a player probably won't be on the level of leading an Inquisition. I didn't like feeling like I had to constantly cater to what would get approval from my party members just so they wouldn't leave in DAI, but it does make more sense that my choices as a leader would affect whether someone supports or is against my cause.
Meanwhile, DA2 is about slightly more down to earth friendships and bonds that are, whether friendship or rivalry, mostly unshakeable throughout the game. I think it'd make a lot of sense to take ideas from DA2 for DA4 from that perspective, though the friendship+rivalry system in DA2 definitely needs a lot of modernization, of course.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 1, 2020 21:50:35 GMT
Meanwhile, DA2 is about slightly more down to earth friendships and bonds that are, whether friendship or rivalry, mostly unshakeable throughout the game. To be honest, whilst I don't want to be constantly worrying if a person might leave just because my points metre isn't high enough, I wouldn't mind if something I did so appalled a companion that they felt compelled to leave or attack me for it. They did that with Leliana over the ashes and they did that with Anders over giving Feynriel to the demon. What surprised me was that if Hawke gave Fenris back to Denarius, they might voice disapproval but no one left over it or tried to stop you. By that stage in the game everyone's metre was likely locked in so of course friendship/rivalry points made little difference. He was participating in gambling/drinking parties with Varric and Donnick, he could potentially be sleeping with Isabella, Averline is the representative of law and order in the city, Sebastian has been showing a lot off interest talking with him, probably to convert him but still, slavery is illegal in the south, supposedly punishable by death, yet Denarius can walk away scot free with his prize and then we're back to business as usual. A fine bunch of friends they were to Fenris. So let them fall out with me if necessary not just over what I do to strangers but also what I do to their supposed friends/team members.
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Post by phoray on Sept 1, 2020 22:17:22 GMT
Soo... hype thread! Anyone got any loose ideas for what kind of character(s) they'd like to play going into DA4? Assuming we have all races and a variety of specializations, what are you thinking/hoping for? Got any thoughts about how they look, what kind of VA you'd like to have? Wanna break out the ol' Alignment Chart? Ex slave who found their way into the Lord of Fortune's Guild. The voices of the slaves my city elf left behind echoes in her soul, so when an opportunity strikes, she'll free them and cause issues for the elite. (Magic optional, but I trend dual wield rogue). I liked Tempest, for example, but would like more acrobatics and stealth takedowns. She will probably fall in love with a blonde Alistair/Cullen type. For my evil playthrough, I want to play a male mage magister reject who doesn't feel special enough and tries to scrape for power using blood magic- he romances for pure lust and/or eventual political power.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 1, 2020 22:18:22 GMT
I didn't like feeling like I had to constantly cater to what would get approval from my party members just so they wouldn't leave in DAI, but it does make more sense that my choices as a leader would affect whether someone supports or is against my cause. I have a strange, contradictory view on this, which is that (1) I also don’t want to feel that anxiety to suck up to party members but (2) some of my most memorable Dragon Age playthroughs have involved party members leaving. There’s something really compelling about a hero who’s got such strong convictions (or glaring flaws) that they’re willing to sacrifice friendships for them. But as a certified non-hero, it’s hard for me to RP that. I often find myself sucking up, especially in my first playthrough. I guess this is almost an argument for hiding approval? Though, Inquisition mostly hid approval, and it still felt too lenient (prior to the option they added in Trespasser).
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Post by themikefest on Sept 1, 2020 22:21:48 GMT
hyped? Not really. The two things I'm looking forward to, besides new characters and locations, is how will Solas be dealt with and what long hairstyles will be available in the character creation screen.
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Post by gum on Sept 1, 2020 22:26:31 GMT
What surprised me was that if Hawke gave Fenris back to Denarius, they might voice disapproval but no one left over it or tried to stop you. By that stage in the game everyone's metre was likely locked in so of course friendship/rivalry points made little difference. He was participating in gambling/drinking parties with Varric and Donnick, he could potentially be sleeping with Isabella, Averline is the representative of law and order in the city, Sebastian has been showing a lot off interest talking with him, probably to convert him but still, slavery is illegal in the south, supposedly punishable by death, yet Denarius can walk away scot free with his prize and then we're back to business as usual. A fine bunch of friends they were to Fenris. So let them fall out with me if necessary not just over what I do to strangers but also what I do to their supposed friends/team members. But this is my issue with a lot of choice-based games to begin with, is that they offer these very extreme, difficult to justify options to the player for what often feels like giving me choices "just because." It feels like the illusion of depth and "meaningful decision making," when in reality it doesn't really make a lot of sense for my characters to make these decisions in the broader narrative or game thematically, other than just allowing me to be edgy when I'm bored on my 10th playthrough. I'm alright with a studio limiting the player's "choice" if it means not giving me options like selling my colleague into slavery and instead focusing on presenting the player with decisions that are more nuanced and thematically supported. Like, yes, this is a dissonance between the writing and gameplay, but I do believe there are many ways to resolve this issue and personally would prefer the route which requires more intentionality in the options they offer to the player. And I think you can make an argument for players dictating the outcome of a game more, even if their actions seem extreme and ill fitting, but I don't personally think DA is the series to actually support that level of extremity when your decisions lead into one another in future games (or fail to lead into each other, depending on how you look at it). Like I think offering the player a ton of somewhat disconnected options at the time was considered a novelty, but I think we're probably at a point in gaming where we can hone in more on focused narrative now, without feeling like we've lost a lot because now we don't have the option to kill all our friends or commit genocide. And I'd also be alright with characters having a fallout with me, but I would love to see ways where this is supported more frequently gameplay-wise rather than just letting the player lose a lot of content and never see that person again, but that's just my opinion. I can see how the loss of this character can be argued to be enough of a consequence in itself, I just think there's ways to play up that drama and tension more, so that players are willing to make decisions that create fallouts rather than feeling the need to cater to each character's opinions. I think the friendship+rivalry meter was beginning to point at this, but obviously didn't reach that point yet in its development, which is why I hold out for someone borrowing some of the ideas it presents.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 1, 2020 22:43:01 GMT
What surprised me was that if Hawke gave Fenris back to Denarius, they might voice disapproval but no one left over it or tried to stop you. By that stage in the game everyone's metre was likely locked in so of course friendship/rivalry points made little difference. He was participating in gambling/drinking parties with Varric and Donnick, he could potentially be sleeping with Isabella, Averline is the representative of law and order in the city, Sebastian has been showing a lot off interest talking with him, probably to convert him but still, slavery is illegal in the south, supposedly punishable by death, yet Denarius can walk away scot free with his prize and then we're back to business as usual. A fine bunch of friends they were to Fenris. So let them fall out with me if necessary not just over what I do to strangers but also what I do to their supposed friends/team members. But this is my issue with a lot of choice-based games to begin with, is that they offer these very extreme, difficult to justify options to the player for what often feels like giving me choices "just because." It feels like the illusion of depth and "meaningful decision making," when in reality it doesn't really make a lot of sense for my characters to make these decisions in the broader narrative or game thematically, other than just allowing me to be edgy when I'm bored on my 10th playthrough. I'm alright with a studio limiting the player's "choice" if it means not giving me options like selling my colleague into slavery and instead focusing on presenting the player with decisions that are more nuanced and thematically supported. Like, yes, this is a dissonance between the writing and gameplay, but I do believe there are many ways to resolve this issue and personally would prefer the route which requires more intentionality in the options they offer to the player. And I think you can make an argument for players dictating the outcome of a game more, even if their actions seem extreme and ill fitting, but I don't personally think DA is the series to actually support that level of extremity when your decisions lead into one another in future games (or fail to lead into each other, depending on how you look at it). Like I think offering the player a ton of somewhat disconnected options at the time was considered a novelty, but I think we're probably at a point in gaming where we can hone in more on focused narrative now, without feeling like we've lost a lot because now we don't have the option to kill all our friends or commit genocide. And I'd also be alright with characters having a fallout with me, but I would love to see ways where this is supported more frequently gameplay-wise rather than just letting the player lose a lot of content and never see that person again, but that's just my opinion. I can see how the loss of this character can be argued to be enough of a consequence in itself, I just think there's ways to play up that drama and tension more, so that players are willing to make decisions that create fallouts rather than feeling the need to cater to each character's opinions. I think the friendship+rivalry meter was beginning to point at this, but obviously didn't reach that point yet in its development, which is why I hold out for someone borrowing some of the ideas it presents. Hm, what if having the party member remain locked the PC out of certain content? Like maybe there are questgivers who say “I don’t trust you, I hear you’re friends with X” or something of that nature. So it’s not a choice between more content vs. less content, it’s a choice between companion content vs. quest content.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 1, 2020 22:48:33 GMT
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Post by gum on Sept 1, 2020 22:49:33 GMT
Hm, what if having the party member remain locked the PC out of certain content? Like maybe there are questgivers who say “I don’t trust you, I hear you’re friends with X” or something of that nature. So it’s not a choice between more content vs. less content, it’s a choice between companion content vs. quest content. Yeah, I'm all for stuff like this and I think that kind of interactivity is really neat! It also feels like a more authentic way for the player to interact with the world and I feel like DA2 had similar content with Hawke's personality (though it was pretty minimal). That way there's alternative content to your choices as a player, whereas in games like DAI, if a character leaves you just lost all that content afaik.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Sept 2, 2020 3:27:24 GMT
Oh mates, I’m sooooo frigging hyped for this game! I’m personally really stoked to find out more about the Evanuris (especially after reading a certain story in Tevinter Nights) and I hope that sense of almost supernatural dread is carried forward into the game. I’ve also been rewatching the original teaser trailer for DA4 and I am in LOVE with the music! It has that soaring dragon age sound combined with a mystical and almost apocalyptic feel that I’m in love with! I believe it’s Trevor Morris? Here’s hoping the game score has the same theme! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png)
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Post by colfoley on Sept 2, 2020 4:12:58 GMT
Oh mates, I’m sooooo frigging hyped for this game! I’m personally really stoked to find out more about the Evanuris (especially after reading a certain story in Tevinter Nights) and I hope that sense of almost supernatural dread is carried forward into the game. I’ve also been rewatching the original teaser trailer for DA4 and I am in LOVE with the music! It has that soaring dragon age sound combined with a mystical and almost apocalyptic feel that I’m in love with! I believe it’s Trevor Morris? Here’s hoping the game score has the same theme! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png) Trevor Morris for DA4/ musical God King.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 10:05:07 GMT
There’s something really compelling about a hero who’s got such strong convictions (or glaring flaws) that they’re willing to sacrifice friendships for them. But as a certified non-hero, it’s hard for me to RP that. I often find myself sucking up, especially in my first playthrough. There are times when it shouldn't matter one way or another what your approval metre is, what you do so annoys/offends/shocks them that they leave/attack/refuse to work with you any more. Morrigan - 100% approval - refuse to do Dark Ritual - leaves you to sort out Blight without her. Leliana - (never done this so must assume) - 100% approval - corrupt ashes - attacks you and you are forced to kill her. Alistair - 100% approval - spare Loghain - refuses to work with you. If Loghain sacrifices himself, grudgingly admits you may have made the right call (if he was made king), otherwise becomes a hopeless drunk. That is the sort of thing I am thinking of. Differing motivations why they took the action they did but you crossed a line and that was it, the relationship with them, in whatever form, was over. I was perfectly okay with that. I like companions that think for themselves.
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Post by witchcocktor on Sept 2, 2020 12:48:48 GMT
I hope we get non-human gays ![:wub:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/scRQRZMETVOTXDUFItkV.png) Gay elf dude supremacy! It's pretty interesting how few elves have been shown in the concept art though. Only the pole wielding, seemingly balding elf dude has been very clearly an elf and a '' possible '' companion. Though I guess previous games hasn't had several elves either, but you'd think elven point of view would be even more important this time around.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 13:12:24 GMT
Though I guess previous games hasn't had several elves either, but you'd think elven point of view would be even more important this time around. Well I suppose the in world reason why people are going to be a bit careful about recruiting elves, if they know about Solas, is that they might be his agents. Still they could be agents of the Qun, in fact Tallis was an agent of the Qun, and yet apparently that didn't stop us, even though we may have just kicked the Arishok's ass and been attacked by hordes of elves supporting him. So may be they are keeping the elven input largely a surprise, apart from that one image. Come to think about it, we didn't see many dwarves either. Just that one image of an archer who was probably a dwarf. One of the reasons I doubted that eight person picture was anywhere close to the finalised version of companions was that there were no obvious dwarven or elven characters in it and the majority looked human. If I am allowed to play an elf, I'd quite like to have at least one elven option for romance, preferably bisexual so I can keep my options open about the gender I play but I'm nothing if not adaptable. When my male Lavellan discovered Solas was off limits but Dorian was very much on the table (yes that was a play on words), suddenly all those old Tevinter prejudices didn't seem so important anymore. Well he did resist a little, I'm not that easy. I know many people want a gay KISA. What about a gay elf KISA?
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Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by witchcocktor on Sept 2, 2020 13:39:26 GMT
Though I guess previous games hasn't had several elves either, but you'd think elven point of view would be even more important this time around. Well I suppose the in world reason why people are going to be a bit careful about recruiting elves, if they know about Solas, is that they might be his agents. Still they could be agents of the Qun, in fact Tallis was an agent of the Qun, and yet apparently that didn't stop us, even though we may have just kicked the Arishok's ass and been attacked by hordes of elves supporting him. So may be they are keeping the elven input largely a surprise, apart from that one image. Come to think about it, we didn't see many dwarves either. Just that one image of an archer who was probably a dwarf. One of the reasons I doubted that eight person picture was anywhere close to the finalised version of companions was that there were no obvious dwarven or elven characters in it and the majority looked human. If I am allowed to play an elf, I'd quite like to have at least one elven option for romance, preferably bisexual so I can keep my options open about the gender I play but I'm nothing if not adaptable. When my male Lavellan discovered Solas was off limits but Dorian was very much on the table (yes that was a play on words), suddenly all those old Tevinter prejudices didn't seem so important anymore. Well he did resist a little, I'm not that easy. I know many people want a gay KISA. What about a gay elf KISA? I'll take any non-human gay, KISA or not. When some people mean KISA, they mean the whole pretty boy (virginal) knight thing that Alistair and Cullen represented, which I was never into, so I wouldn't be at loss if there was no such options for dudes this time around. From the current set of companions, only the probably hornless massive qunari dude seems like something I'd be interested in having as an option. The other dudes look pretty boring as of now. Elf x elf is not my thing personally lmao.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 14:57:17 GMT
Elf x elf is not my thing personally lmao. To be honest, after Solas, I may have learned my lesson about automatically going for the elf guy. I just have this thing about elves. In real life my name even means Elf War in the Anglo Saxon from which it derives and I looked willowy and elven when I was younger. I shall probably play it cautious this time round, though. May be I might even not play an elf.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 16:42:56 GMT
I’m still waiting for a strong stoic knightly KISA type for gay guys. That’s my number 1 pick. And I’d be happy with any race, even an elf for that type. But in general regarding race, I’d prefer anything other than an elf. Clearly I favor dwarves so that’s my first pick (a dwarf Rock Knocker KISA type please), but I’d also be happy with Qunari or even a boring human.
Gay guys have had 2 humans, 2 elves, and 1 Qunari. And 2 warriors, 2 mages, and a rogue. So for variety’s sake, maybe a dwarf warrior and a Qunari mage? I’d be happy with that.
Of the character types we’ve seen, I like the idea of a grey Warden but he’ll likely be a human or elf based on that accent. I can also get behind that tall bare armed Qunari guy. Hell, depending on the what that staff wielding elf is like, I might be into him. He’s wearing armor and robes so if he’s a battlemage and has that KISA quality, I could get into that.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 2, 2020 16:54:52 GMT
I keep seeing you guys say this. I don't know what this means.
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