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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 14, 2020 21:49:59 GMT
The best part of immortality is that the chances of any major calamity that can befall an individual goes up exponentially. You’re gonna stub that toe a billion times over, break every bone and contract every disease to plague whatever region you live in, on top of your mind eventually purging older knowledge as your brain runs out of space to retain it. It sounds like a blast. Every major calamity and every major success. Plus everyone in the population benefits from planning for the long term, which aligns incentives across generations in a way that they aren’t aligned in the real world. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m deeply suspicious of how fictional narratives always say “oh, immortality wouldn’t actually be that great because of X, Y, and Z.” To me, it sounds like sour grapes. A way of making us feel ok about the A through W reasons why mortality sucks. And maybe that’s necessary sometimes. Sometimes, we need that comfort to keep going in a world where death isn’t anywhere close to being beaten. But sometimes, I think we should feel a little uncomfortable with the way things are. In summary, if I had a way to climb into heaven and kill Death, I would absolutely do it. I don’t care if it’s hubris, I am shanking that motherfucker with a magic blade as I backflip into the stars. Nope. Time will never grant you the intelligence or aptitude to achieve certain goals, and thanks to the physical limitations of memory retention, you won’t even be able to stack on lifetimes’ worth of experience to supplement it. At some point, time will rob you of those things. At the same time, every major event, from disease outbreaks to war will be totally beyond your control, and no amount of time being alive will do anything about it. Society won’t benefit much at all, except maybe as a fascinating lab experiment to determine what makes this long-lived person tick. Anyone who thinks that death is something best expunged from nature is hopelessly naive. If they could achieve actual immortality, they’ll likely eventually just try to end their long pointless existence themselves, especially when they reach the point where the inevitable, physical breakdown of their bodies makes everyday life unbearable. It would be hilarious to undo death though, and watch the world rapidly consume itself until it transforms into a stifled, toxic wasteland as everyone tries to kill everyone else to make space.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 14, 2020 22:01:56 GMT
No, not really. You could argue Corypheus also had a conscience. But both set those aside for their goal. On the Cory/ Solas front... Cory was at best a 7.5 villain Anything he offers to anyone is entirely to ease his own quest for power. 'Salvation' is his sales pitch, it's not his motivation. This is where they didn't really do justice to Corypheus as a character. There were hints, definitely in the memories of his servant in the Fade and his own memories in the Temple of Dumat, that there was more to this person than just a cackling villain only concerned with his own power. He could have been so much more than they finally made him, partly because he was never the true villain of the story but a side-show that we had to deal with before we moved on to the main feature. To my mind we never saw enough of Corypheus in DAI and I would have welcomed more chances to "ask questions" of him. He actually had potential to be a more interesting villain that Solas. So where I am hopeful is that they don't simply make Solas a more fleshed out Corypheus because Hanako is right and there are a lot of similarities between them, particularly in that their original action ended up destroying the very civilisation they wanted to make better, Solas by bringing it literally crashing down around the elves, Corypheus by releasing the Blight on the world that nearly exterminated the races and reduced the Imperium to a shadow of what it had once been. Neither intended for that to happen when they enacted their plan. Then in Morrigan's words: ’Tis said that Corypheus woke after his long slumber and found the world gone awry. He fought to bring back those days of magic and shadow, to raise himself as a god, and set things right.' Isn't that exactly the same for Solas? The only real difference is that he maintains he doesn't want to be a god, yet he still acts as though he is one. Which is why I hope that it is not as simple as him having nostalgia for the world he destroyed but in fact he is genuinely trying to save the world by the only means he sees necessary. Unlike Corypheus he is not going to embrace the Darkness and let it permeate his being to bring about the world he desires but has some other plan. I also want him eventually to stop shutting out my PC and trust them with the information they need to help the world against the Blight. I am very much the optimist in outlook, so I shall continue to place my faith in the writers to deliver until proven otherwise. I certainly agree. I have always said that the maddening thing about him is he is almost two villains at the same time. There is the villain that we don't see, even the villain before DAI: Calm, calculating, thoughtful, and even has a certain sympathy to him. The Corypheus that had it not been for one random accident would've succeeded with his plan in the first ten minutes. The Corypheus that then watched the Inquisitor suceed through blind happenstance and 'fate' time after time. And then there is the rage monster 'raaaggghh blargh muhahaha' Corypeus that we usually have to deal with in person. I would have loved tea time with Corypheus as I like to call it, maybe have us get captured by him or something...alas. But when dealing with these kinds of characters and these types of situations from a literary perspective it does not matter what their simularities are (indeed such simularities are often intentional) but what their differences are. Was Harry Potter just Voldemort 2.0? Was Rey Kylo Ren with lady parts? Was Oliver Queen just a younger version of Malcolm Merlyn? All of these characters had a lot in common with one another but it was what they did with it that defined who they were at the end of the day. I believe Dumbledore made that very point to Harry in...well at least the movie version of Chamber of Secrets. And again in this specific case while its not entirely unfair to call Solas Cory 2.0...it also a grand understatement of why they are so similar and also that their differences are real...or meant to challenge the audience's perception of morality. Well I certainly agree with you there. I do believe that there is a lot more to Solas's plan then he is revealing given that, based on my understanding of the lore, I am about 90% sure that mot of what he tells us in Tresspasser...at least in regards to his plan and the consequences there of...is a lie. So there must be something more to it whether or not he is trying to hunt for a bigger fish...the Blight...then what he is teling us...or if he is trying to encourage us to find a way to stop him in some other fashion we will have to see. Oh and it would be very much in his wheel house to not tell us what things are to see his plan to fruition...the story of the 'slow arrow' comes to mind...and its what Strange told Tony in Endgame...if he tells us what his plan is it might not happen. There is a reason he is keeping secrets, there is a reason he is obsfuscating, there is a reason he is being vague, there is a reason he is not letting us know everything. (I know I dropped a lot of popculture references to other stuff in here so I hope you can understand my points  ) The best part of immortality is that the chances of any major calamity that can befall an individual goes up exponentially. You’re gonna stub that toe a billion times over, break every bone and contract every disease to plague whatever region you live in, on top of your mind eventually purging older knowledge as your brain runs out of space to retain it. It sounds like a blast. That is certainly...one way t do immortality.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 14, 2020 22:40:18 GMT
Nope. Time will never grant you the intelligence or aptitude to achieve certain goals, and thanks to the physical limitations of memory retention, you won’t even be able to stack on lifetimes’ worth of experience to supplement it. At some point, time will rob you of those things. At the same time, every major event, from disease outbreaks to war will be totally beyond your control, and no amount of time being alive will do anything about it. Society won’t benefit much at all, except maybe as a fascinating lab experiment to determine what makes this long-lived person tick. Anyone who thinks that death is something best expunged from nature is hopelessly naive. If they could achieve actual immortality, they’ll likely eventually just try to end their long pointless existence themselves, especially when they reach the point where the inevitable, physical breakdown of their bodies makes everyday life unbearable. It would be hilarious to undo death though, and watch the world rapidly consume itself until it transforms into a stifled, toxic wasteland as everyone tries to kill everyone else to make space. My brain doesn’t even hold most of my current memories, why would I care if it wouldn’t hold more? That’s what we invented writing for. And as far as “inevitable physical breakdown” goes, I would consider that to be incompatible with the concept of immortality. The object of shanking Death is removing that inevitable breakdown, not letting Death weasel its way around the problem with some silly technicality that is, effectively, still death. That’s the kind of monkey-paw ironic twist nonsense that happens in fiction, because stories don’t want to make people sad that death exists in the real world. It’s also irrelevant to elf immortality in Dragon Age, which involves popping into the Fade and/or being Fade spirits to begin with. Any attempt at killing Death IRL would probably go along similar lines, trading the meat bodies in for something more durable. This is why I hate that so many stories go “immortality is Bad Actually”. It gives us such insane tunnel vision when considering possible solutions. We don’t only have to consider the futures where some evil genie is laughing in the background, corrupting our every attempt to make the world a better place. We could, also, imagine worlds that are better. |
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Post by smilesja on Sept 14, 2020 22:59:37 GMT
Nope. Time will never grant you the intelligence or aptitude to achieve certain goals, and thanks to the physical limitations of memory retention, you won’t even be able to stack on lifetimes’ worth of experience to supplement it. At some point, time will rob you of those things. At the same time, every major event, from disease outbreaks to war will be totally beyond your control, and no amount of time being alive will do anything about it. Society won’t benefit much at all, except maybe as a fascinating lab experiment to determine what makes this long-lived person tick. Anyone who thinks that death is something best expunged from nature is hopelessly naive. If they could achieve actual immortality, they’ll likely eventually just try to end their long pointless existence themselves, especially when they reach the point where the inevitable, physical breakdown of their bodies makes everyday life unbearable. It would be hilarious to undo death though, and watch the world rapidly consume itself until it transforms into a stifled, toxic wasteland as everyone tries to kill everyone else to make space. My brain doesn’t even hold most of my current memories, why would I care if it wouldn’t hold more? That’s what we invented writing for. And as far as “inevitable physical breakdown” goes, I would consider that to be incompatible with the concept of immortality. The object of shanking Death is removing that inevitable breakdown, not letting Death weasel its way around the problem with some silly technicality that is, effectively, still death. That’s the kind of monkey-paw ironic twist nonsense that happens in fiction, because stories don’t want to make people sad that death exists in the real world. It’s also irrelevant to elf immortality in Dragon Age, which involves popping into the Fade and/or being Fade spirits to begin with. Any attempt at killing Death IRL would probably go along similar lines, trading the meat bodies in for something more durable. This is why I hate that so many stories go “immortality is Bad Actually”. It gives us such insane tunnel vision when considering possible solutions. We don’t only have to consider the futures where some evil genie is laughing in the background, corrupting our every attempt to make the world a better place. We could, also, imagine worlds that are better. Yeah the problem is that people stick too many tired tropes even the negative ones. I think writers need to consider the possibility of something like immortality being a good thing and maybe have a story about a person doing good things (or trying to do good things) with their immortality. |
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 14, 2020 23:12:57 GMT
My brain doesn’t even hold most of my current memories, why would I care if it wouldn’t hold more? That’s what we invented writing for. And as far as “inevitable physical breakdown” goes, I would consider that to be incompatible with the concept of immortality. The object of shanking Death is removing that inevitable breakdown, not letting Death weasel its way around the problem with some silly technicality that is, effectively, still death. That’s the kind of monkey-paw ironic twist nonsense that happens in fiction, because stories don’t want to make people sad that death exists in the real world. It’s also irrelevant to elf immortality in Dragon Age, which involves popping into the Fade and/or being Fade spirits to begin with. Any attempt at killing Death IRL would probably go along similar lines, trading the meat bodies in for something more durable. This is why I hate that so many stories go “immortality is Bad Actually”. It gives us such insane tunnel vision when considering possible solutions. We don’t only have to consider the futures where some evil genie is laughing in the background, corrupting our every attempt to make the world a better place. We could, also, imagine worlds that are better. Yeah the problem is that people stick too many tired tropes even the negative ones. I think writers need to consider the possibility of something like immortality being a good thing and maybe have a story about a person doing good things (or trying to do good things) with their immortality. And to clarify, I think Dragon Age is one of the universes that handles this better than most. Players have a tendency to undervalue immortality, especially with regard to the calculus that Solas is making. But I don’t think I’ve seen the game come down on that side. It sometimes offers options for the PC to favor mortality over immortality, but (as of Inquisition) I don’t think it’s ever put its finger on that scale. It’s an almost cyberpunk stance for a fantasy game to take — “make up your own mind about the merits of immortality.” |
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Post by colfoley on Sept 14, 2020 23:17:55 GMT
Yeah the problem is that people stick too many tired tropes even the negative ones. I think writers need to consider the possibility of something like immortality being a good thing and maybe have a story about a person doing good things (or trying to do good things) with their immortality. And to clarify, I think Dragon Age is one of the universes that handles this better than most. Players have a tendency to undervalue immortality, especially with regard to the calculus that Solas is making. But I don’t think I’ve seen the game come down on that side. It sometimes offers options for the PC to favor mortality over immortality, but (as of Inquisition) I don’t think it’s ever put its finger on that scale. It’s an almost cyberpunk stance for a fantasy game to take — “make up your own mind about the merits of immortality.” to be fair that is becoming more BioWare's mo and DAs..."make up your own mind no matter what the issue is". |
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,024 Likes: 3,563
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 14, 2020 23:18:15 GMT
Nope. Time will never grant you the intelligence or aptitude to achieve certain goals, and thanks to the physical limitations of memory retention, you won’t even be able to stack on lifetimes’ worth of experience to supplement it. At some point, time will rob you of those things. At the same time, every major event, from disease outbreaks to war will be totally beyond your control, and no amount of time being alive will do anything about it. Society won’t benefit much at all, except maybe as a fascinating lab experiment to determine what makes this long-lived person tick. Anyone who thinks that death is something best expunged from nature is hopelessly naive. If they could achieve actual immortality, they’ll likely eventually just try to end their long pointless existence themselves, especially when they reach the point where the inevitable, physical breakdown of their bodies makes everyday life unbearable. It would be hilarious to undo death though, and watch the world rapidly consume itself until it transforms into a stifled, toxic wasteland as everyone tries to kill everyone else to make space. Time also doesn't grant you the intelligence to calculate the exact time of the day, either. But you have that capacity anyway, thanks to the cybernetic extension of your brain that is the phone in your pocket, given to you by time and the ingenuity of others. It won't even be that long before it's inside your actual head, and you'll be able to perfectly store your memories on it too. I don't remember if there's any kind of memory-imprinting magic in Dragon Age, but it should certainly not be beyond the bounds of possibility and could be developed if and when necessary. You know, given time. It seems like your image of immortality is simply someone living forever and flailing around accepting every possible ordinary misfortune that may befall them while only regretting that they can't control everything to perfection, without actually doing anything about any of it, or thinking of coordinating that effort with others. Doesn't seem a particularly plausible, let alone inevitable, model of a species ambitious and powerful enough to already have attained immortality. I agree that simply assuming that the removal of death will make the world better is naive, but that also doesn't mean that it couldn't, and certainly not for the reasons you're pointing out here.
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legbamel
N3
Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: legbamel
XBL Gamertag: Legbamel
Posts: 708 Likes: 1,491
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
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Post by legbamel on Sept 14, 2020 23:22:23 GMT
I'm super hyped, even if the train seems to be stuck at one station right now. The hints at meaty lore about new locations have me drooling!
I'm also curious to see how much of Solas's plans revolve around the rapid proliferation of the Blight. People seem so focused on Ancient Elf vs Modern People that they blow right past The Egg's concerns regarding what the Wardens were up to and the spread of red lyrium. I get the idea that it's a major reason for why he has to act, and act soon. It adds a lot more dimension than simplifying it to "I miss muh peeps" if dropping the Veil is the only way to get enough people with the power to stop the Blight from corrupting the whole of Thedas. If the world is toast without the chaos and upheaval dropping the Veil will cause, I say drop it!
That's where the plea for another way comes from...help him find a different path that doesn't mean agony, fear, chaos, and death from Blight or dropping the Veil. What would that be?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 14, 2020 23:23:41 GMT
And to clarify, I think Dragon Age is one of the universes that handles this better than most. Players have a tendency to undervalue immortality, especially with regard to the calculus that Solas is making. But I don’t think I’ve seen the game come down on that side. It sometimes offers options for the PC to favor mortality over immortality, but (as of Inquisition) I don’t think it’s ever put its finger on that scale. It’s an almost cyberpunk stance for a fantasy game to take — “make up your own mind about the merits of immortality.” to be fair that is becoming more BioWare's mo and DAs..."make up your own mind no matter what the issue is". And when it comes to genocide, frighteningly many Bioware fans seem to be all for it.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 14, 2020 23:31:46 GMT
to be fair that is becoming more BioWare's mo and DAs..."make up your own mind no matter what the issue is". And when it comes to genocide, frighteningly many Bioware fans seem to be all for it. I don't believe anyone condones genocide... Just look at it like this, there is literally zero evidence that his plan will cause genocide other than his say so and in fact everything else we know contradicts his claim. His plan may be trying to prevent genocide. Either, if we take it at some face value, of his own people. Or of all of Thedas if some of my suppositions prove correct. Afterall it's not too much of a leap to conclude that Thedas is, RIGHT NOW, between the blight, the encroaching Fade, and virtually every other thing in DA, points to Thedas is dying. And once it goes it will destroy all life, which Solas could be trying to prevent. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 14, 2020 23:36:05 GMT
And when it comes to genocide, frighteningly many Bioware fans seem to be all for it. I don't believe anyone condones genocide... Just look at it like this, there is literally zero evidence that his plan will cause genocide other than his say so and in fact everything else we know contradicts his claim. His plan may be trying to prevent genocide. Either, if we take it at some face value, of his own people. Or of all of Thedas if some of my suppositions prove correct. Afterall it's not too much of a leap to conclude that Thedas is, RIGHT NOW, between the blight, the encroaching Fade, and virtually every other thing in DA, points to Thedas is dying. And once it goes it will destroy all life, which Solas could be trying to prevent. You've been on the Mass Effect threads. You know how many love the idea of the Destroy ending, even with the collateral damage. Now on this thread most people are supporting Solas wiping out all modern races for reasons they pull out of thin air to defend him. Look at it this way, there is zero evidence that his plan will not cause genocide and in fact everything else we know contradicts that claim. So he'll genocide half to possibly save the other half? That's still genocide, so thanks for making my point.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,024 Likes: 3,563
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 14, 2020 23:41:31 GMT
And when it comes to genocide, frighteningly many Bioware fans seem to be all for it. I'm curious again. On a purely ethical level, does the fact that you're blatantly misrepresenting and slandering people you've never met, whose actual politics you've never tried to learn and whom you actually refuse to hear out disturb you at all?
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 15, 2020 0:14:20 GMT
My brain doesn’t even hold most of my current memories, why would I care if it wouldn’t hold more? That’s what we invented writing for. And as far as “inevitable physical breakdown” goes, I would consider that to be incompatible with the concept of immortality. The object of shanking Death is removing that inevitable breakdown, not letting Death weasel its way around the problem with some silly technicality that is, effectively, still death. That’s the kind of monkey-paw ironic twist nonsense that happens in fiction, because stories don’t want to make people sad that death exists in the real world. It’s also irrelevant to elf immortality in Dragon Age, which involves popping into the Fade and/or being Fade spirits to begin with. Any attempt at killing Death IRL would probably go along similar lines, trading the meat bodies in for something more durable. This is why I hate that so many stories go “immortality is Bad Actually”. It gives us such insane tunnel vision when considering possible solutions. We don’t only have to consider the futures where some evil genie is laughing in the background, corrupting our every attempt to make the world a better place. We could, also, imagine worlds that are better. Yeah the problem is that people stick too many tired tropes even the negative ones. I think writers need to consider the possibility of something like immortality being a good thing and maybe have a story about a person doing good things (or trying to do good things) with their immortality. To establish it as a good thing, there needs to be a practical benefit for it beyond “I get to do more things for a longer period of time.”
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,024 Likes: 3,563
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 15, 2020 0:23:41 GMT
To establish it as a good thing, there needs to be a practical benefit for it beyond “I get to do more things for a longer period of time.” Would you generally prefer to die in fifty years, rather than tomorrow? If the answer is yes then time means something to you as a raw resource, and, all else being equal, having more of it would generally be better.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 15, 2020 0:31:01 GMT
To establish it as a good thing, there needs to be a practical benefit for it beyond “I get to do more things for a longer period of time.” Would you generally prefer to die in fifty years, rather than tomorrow? If the answer is yes then time means something to you as a raw resource, and, all else being equal, having more of it would generally be better. That’s not really a rebuttal to what I said, and this argument’s flaw is that it’s just weighing two finite values. Preferring to live another 50 years as opposed to just less than 24 hours isn’t the same as choosing between any number of years vs theoretical eternity. What’s the practical upshot of living forever that our normal life processes couldn’t accomplish in the greater whole? The question I’m posing isn’t a matter of individual preference. Presenting immortality as a good thing in a story doesn’t work if it’s based solely on what that individual character wants to do. How does it help society? What’s improved as a result? What does it do for any given species that makes things inherently better?
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Post by smilesja on Sept 15, 2020 0:31:39 GMT
I don't believe anyone condones genocide... Just look at it like this, there is literally zero evidence that his plan will cause genocide other than his say so and in fact everything else we know contradicts his claim. His plan may be trying to prevent genocide. Either, if we take it at some face value, of his own people. Or of all of Thedas if some of my suppositions prove correct. Afterall it's not too much of a leap to conclude that Thedas is, RIGHT NOW, between the blight, the encroaching Fade, and virtually every other thing in DA, points to Thedas is dying. And once it goes it will destroy all life, which Solas could be trying to prevent. You've been on the Mass Effect threads. You know how many love the idea of the Destroy ending, even with the collateral damage. Now on this thread most people are supporting Solas wiping out all modern races for reasons they pull out of thin air to defend him. Look at it this way, there is zero evidence that his plan will not cause genocide and in fact everything else we know contradicts that claim. So he'll genocide half to possibly save the other half? That's still genocide, so thanks for making my point. I’m pretty sure people who chose destroy weighed the options and consequences. |
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 15, 2020 0:36:57 GMT
to be fair that is becoming more BioWare's mo and DAs..."make up your own mind no matter what the issue is". And when it comes to genocide, frighteningly many Bioware fans seem to be all for it. Genocide in a game can spice things up. No one wants to send real people to gas chambers (except some fringe elements we dare not mention), but killing people in games is fun. Destroying the reapers is technically genocide, regardless of the geth, but we like it just fine.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 15, 2020 0:42:01 GMT
to be fair that is becoming more BioWare's mo and DAs..."make up your own mind no matter what the issue is". And when it comes to genocide, frighteningly many Bioware fans seem to be all for it. I know that you are all about Solas here, but... ever since Bioware and some players try to push the "it was their own fault" narrative with regards to the destruction of the Dales, yeah. Any justification of RoA, especially Meredith's, could be also valid. Oh, and the Chantry and the Qun are all about cultural genocide, and while nobody cares about the former, the latter frequently induces knee-jerk reactions and some kind of red scare panic for some reason You've been on the Mass Effect threads. You know how many love the idea of the Destroy ending, even with the collateral damage. You don't need to go that far. Just look at anyone who is seriously pro-Cerberus.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 15, 2020 0:44:59 GMT
I’m not sure how BioWare would even finagle this kill-all choice. Like, I just want to kill Solas, preferably with a giant magical club on his egg head. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to beat a single elf like he owes me money and stop his magica-Thanos fade snap whatever the hell it is he’s trying to do.
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legbamel
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Post by legbamel on Sept 15, 2020 1:08:00 GMT
And when it comes to genocide, frighteningly many Bioware fans seem to be all for it. I know that you are all about Solas here, but... ever since Bioware and some players try to push the "it was their own fault" narrative with regards to the destruction of the Dales, yeah. Any justification of RoA, especially Meredith's, could be also valid. Oh, and the Chantry and the Qun are all about cultural genocide, and while nobody cares about the former, the latter frequently induces knee-jerk reactions and some kind of red scare panic for some reason You've been on the Mass Effect threads. You know how many love the idea of the Destroy ending, even with the collateral damage. You don't need to go that far. Just look at anyone who is seriously pro-Cerberus. I foresee the red lyrium pics becoming a Red Scare meme...
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 15, 2020 1:10:41 GMT
That’s not really a rebuttal to what I said, and this argument’s flaw is that it’s just weighing two finite values. Preferring to live another 50 years as opposed to just less than 24 hours isn’t the same as choosing between any number of years vs theoretical eternity. What’s the practical upshot of living forever that our normal life processes couldn’t accomplish in the greater whole? The question I’m posing isn’t a matter of individual preference. Presenting immortality as a good thing in a story doesn’t work if it’s based solely on what that individual character wants to do. How does it help society? What’s improved as a result? What does it do for any given species that makes things inherently better? Yes, it is. What you tried to say was that time doesn't have value simply for being added potential, which clearly isn't the case since the only time you would ever want to shorten your lifespan would be under the certainty that the remaining time would feel worse than death - or in the hope that the effects of your death would be momentous enough that nothing you might do with your life would compare. Nobody behaves as if time on Earth is meaningless, no matter how little or much we're talking about. Therefore it means something. As to the obvious practical benefits to society, expertise would accumulate. Instead of trained experts spending a finite amount of time working to expand our knowledge and understanding and capabilities before (hopefully) being replaced, skilled manpower would simply continue to grow in every field we wanted it to. Imagine if Einstein had been immortal, and had continued to work on the problems of the universe since 1955 and stood alongside Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton and Stephen Hawking today, leading our scientific revolution with their genius, accelerating our progress, helping us solve all sorts of problems in unimaginable ways we otherwise never would have thought of before society crumbled due to one catastrophe or another. Imagine if people had the time to actually experiment and find the professions that fit them, rather than just taking their best shot while they're young and dumb and living with the choice along with maybe two or three other half-baked careers at most before dying without ever realizing how it feels to be excited to go to work because it's somewhere you matter. Instead of worrying over lack of fulfillment and regretting time wasted, people could apply themselves and keep searching for their purposes until they actually found them. And then find another. And another, while society's pool of talent grew rather than diminished. Obviously immortality wouldn't necessarily make things inherently better. All sorts of things could go wrong, we could put ourselves on any number of disastrous developmental paths. Disaster would be inevitable at some point, sure, because nothing actually lasts forever. But pretending that immortality couldn't help or improve our existence is silly.
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Post by Reznore on Sept 15, 2020 1:46:50 GMT
Obviously immortality wouldn't necessarily make things inherently better. All sorts of things could go wrong, we could put ourselves on any number of disastrous developmental paths. Disaster would be inevitable at some point, sure, because nothing actually lasts forever. But pretending that immortality couldn't help or improve our existence is silly. If immortality has been a thing I don't know like a couple of hundred years ago, you and I probably wouldn't be here. You'd have to stop having new people at one point.
Immortality wouldn't improve much, we can already leave datas behind the next generations can pick up and work upon.
You have more chances of things getting wrong and stale for very little gain or none at all beyond "I'm forever. Yay" Like you said nothing lasts forever, things breaks down and changes all the times and humans are part of the same process. I understand the yearning, but imho it's a selfish and short-sighted one.
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mousestalker
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Post by mousestalker on Sept 15, 2020 2:01:42 GMT
This thread is for DA4 optimism. Please stay on point. There are many other threads for other DA4 topics. If one of the existing topics does not fit what you want to discuss then please start another one.  |
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Post by smilesja on Sept 15, 2020 2:38:05 GMT
So anything you all are looking forward to?
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 15, 2020 2:42:25 GMT
-Turned into private message-
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