inherit
802
0
5,615
B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,791
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 17, 2023 18:40:42 GMT
Thank you. ^ Both of you. My new desktop is beginning to get defined. Btw. I've actually figured out why the PSU has moved to the bottom.  It's sort of the opposite of what Bunny suggested. The old topside PSU sucked out warm CPU air from above. As long as a case is built with sufficient inlets, that works fine. ...But if you had too many case evacuation fans, the PSU would overcook and eventually fail. What has changed is that the GPU is now the biggest heat source in the computer. So instead of pulling all the heat past the CPU and trying to cool the PSU with air heated by both the GPU and CPU, lets put the PSU under the GPU instead. Now it suddenly makes sense to me, and I will not be as annoyed anymore.  I'm pretty deaf when it comes to generic brand discussion of Intel vs AMD and Nvidia vs Radeon. It's all in each generation, not brand. Generally, I can say that Intel has mostly been shit in those periods when I have built a new computer. I know this because I was often forced to use Intel PCs at work, so I could compare. My current laptop has an 8th gen Core i7 though, and that's perfectly fine. Despite being a laptop CPU, it's just as fast as my 12 year old 6-core desktop Phenom II. Maybe even faster at some things. (Actually, before my 120GB SSD broke this spring, and I bought a new faster 450GB SSD, I even thought my laptop was faster.) Same with GPUs. I've had some great Geforce cards and one crappy, and only two Radeons (both Sapphire), but both great. But there have been crappy Radeons, sure. Before AMD bought them, I think they had only made one good card, "R9800"? Don't remember. Back when I purchased my last desktop graphics, 12 years ago, there was a lot of talk about that Nvidias drivers were better and Radeons more flakey. But that must have been inspired by previous generation, because Microsoft's statistics (by then they collected people's crash information) showed the complete opposite. And the HD6990 that I purchased has worked like a clock, for 12 years. It still runs reasonably modern games decently on 2560X1600 resolution. I haven't kept in touch, but I have had the impression that Nvidia has dominated in later years? But you know, things always change. Isn't it AMD that has made all the GPU chips for the last 2 generations of consoles? That might be a reason to go Radeon? I need to find out more about the individual cards, but there is also that the GPU might be just temporary, and be replaced after a couple of years, so no reason to spend too much. Consoles have opted to go with AMD for CPU/APU (Arm-based architecture) and GPUs because they've been generally cheaper to produce and their architecture is better suited for the smaller size, less power-hungry, less 'needy' nature and complexity of Consoles (compared to even mainstream PCs let alone your high-end 4K Gaming PC). Not to mention that Nvidia has always come with a hefty price tag, so to keep the overall price of Consoles down to a somewhat reasonable limit (ie 400 to 600 CAD depending on Platform and Model) AMD products were selected over the Intel and/or Nvidia. Well, the XBox One, XBox Series X and S, PS 4 and PS 5, all have CPU architectures based on AMD's various X86-64 architectures. Not ARM. XBox One and PS 4 had AMD Jaguar architectures, an APU which I believe is slightly related to my old Phenom II, though a new unique design. Series X and S have a Puma architecture, which is more closely related to Ryzen. The CPU technology named 'Zen'. PS 5 too have a Zen type processor, but customized together with Sony. The modern big X86-64 architectures beat ARM both in terms of work/watt and work/transistor count. The original advantage of ARM was that you could make a small CPU that would beat similar sized CISC architectures, or require less power than a bigger CISC that performed the same. So as long as you keep it small enough, small in term of performance and/or small in terms of transistor count, ARM has an advantage. All that launched ARM big time in the phone business. Both Intel and AMD did launch X86 competitors which actually, briefly, had some advantages. However, no one wanted to switch architecture, and particularly not to an architecture that is strictly proprietary to only AMD and Intel. Anyone can license the ARM architecture and design and build a processor. That is why Apple switched to ARM. They wanted their own processor to do their own things with. And that is also why phone makers stick to ARM.
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✜ The Bunny Chaser
2824
0
Nov 26, 2024 12:59:06 GMT
7,728
Energizer Bunny 211
The world just opened up...l'm now hearing sounds that I haven't heard in quite some time!
6,480
Jan 15, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
January 2017
energizerbunny211
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Rumbler1138
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Sept 17, 2023 21:13:30 GMT
Consoles have opted to go with AMD for CPU/APU (Arm-based architecture) and GPUs because they've been generally cheaper to produce and their architecture is better suited for the smaller size, less power-hungry, less 'needy' nature and complexity of Consoles (compared to even mainstream PCs let alone your high-end 4K Gaming PC). Not to mention that Nvidia has always come with a hefty price tag, so to keep the overall price of Consoles down to a somewhat reasonable limit (ie 400 to 600 CAD depending on Platform and Model) AMD products were selected over the Intel and/or Nvidia. Well, the XBox One, XBox Series X and S, PS 4 and PS 5, all have CPU architectures based on AMD's various X86-64 architectures. Not ARM. XBox One and PS 4 had AMD Jaguar architectures, an APU which I believe is slightly related to my old Phenom II, though a new unique design. Series X and S have a Puma architecture, which is more closely related to Ryzen. The CPU technology named 'Zen'. PS 5 too have a Zen type processor, but customized together with Sony. The modern big X86-64 architectures beat ARM both in terms of work/watt and work/transistor count. The original advantage of ARM was that you could make a small CPU that would beat similar sized CISC architectures, or require less power than a bigger CISC that performed the same. So as long as you keep it small enough, small in term of performance and/or small in terms of transistor count, ARM has an advantage. All that launched ARM big time in the phone business. Both Intel and AMD did launch X86 competitors which actually, briefly, had some advantages. However, no one wanted to switch architecture, and particularly not to an architecture that is strictly proprietary to only AMD and Intel. Anyone can license the ARM architecture and design and build a processor. That is why Apple switched to ARM. They wanted their own processor to do their own things with. And that is also why phone makers stick to ARM. Oh, it was Apple that switched to ARM....My mistake. I stand corrected. Thank you. I knew the Consoles had AMD architectures, but I thought they were arm-based. Though now that you say 'Jaguar' etc that sounds more familiar. I'm not up on Consoles that much, you see...so I appreciate the correction. But I am aware that as powerful as the PS5 and Xbox One X are for their size and market....they are more comparable to a 600 dollar PC than a 2,000 dollar + 4K Gaming rig. And as fun as Consoles can be with groups of friends....I've always thought that PC Gaming and PCs in general were better simply because of their versatility and ability to swap-out and upgrade different pieces of hardware. Not to mention taking SIZE into strict account...it seems as though a full-sized GPU (like the 10, 20, 30 or 40 series GPUs) for 4K Gaming PCs are far more powerful than any GPU found on even the PS5 or Xbox Series X.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
0
5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 18, 2023 0:38:47 GMT
The second way is to do OS level underclocking -its hard to find depending on the OS but should give the same result and will NOT void warranty. Thanks, I'm trying this now! Set it to 99%. I also have the Core Temp app. The PC guy installed it. But I want to try the other method first so I don't have to run that app forever. Yesterday I had own of the system reboot black screen freezes again for the first time since I got it back from the shop. Which may or may not be serious overheating compared to the spike (?) overheating that only results on game crashes. I had the game crash twice too at 69C though. So there seems to be also something going on with the game not liking my PC. My card is definitely not overheating. 70C max. Who knows, maybe all these issues go away with a different game, no idea. My sample of two games doesn't tell me anything. FO4 doesn't overheat but it's an old game, so. I'll see what happens once I start playing Starfield. I'll report back on the undervolting workaround! Just a question when you get the black screen at boot do you also get about three beeps? If so it may be another issue than overheating all together. That beep format is usually a RAM issue not being seated correctly. That said you could try running F4 in a window and see if the same thing happens. I did have weird issues with F4 way back when running it full screen. I have found in the years since that I have less issues running a game in a window mode. For instance F76 crashes on me if I run it full screen but will run fine in a window. However I believe we tried this already... As to Starfield -not to put you off the game but I have heard bad things about it. Chief among them is the horrible glitches and game ending crashes... Also heard that its like playing Feros in ME1 1000 times... Still if it suits your fancy enjoy it before it gets boring.
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✜ The Bunny Chaser
2824
0
Nov 26, 2024 12:59:06 GMT
7,728
Energizer Bunny 211
The world just opened up...l'm now hearing sounds that I haven't heard in quite some time!
6,480
Jan 15, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
January 2017
energizerbunny211
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Rumbler1138
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Sept 18, 2023 11:37:35 GMT
So when I was closing my original Gaming/Newsletter email over the weekend the last box on the To-Do List that Microsoft reminds you of (such things as settle all outstanding payments, use your Skype Credits etc) the last box on the checklist was "A Reminder of Device Reset: If you want your Device to remain usable after closing this account, please ensure that Device Reset is turned OFF. IF it remains on than another User may be able to use this device after the account is closed" (or something to that effect)..... What does that mean?
The account I closed was NOT the main email address that is actually tied to my Windows OS, it was basically just a junk mail account that I tied to Newsletters and Gaming Services (all of which I copied over and verified to a NEW account BEFORE I deleted this original account). So, what does this notification mean? Is it actually talking about my PC being rendered unusable after I close this account? OR is it talking about the name of the account (johdoe245 or whatever@hotmail.com) being reusable by someone else? Because if that is the case, that's fine. Go ahead. If anyone else wants to use the exact name address for their account after I have given it up (though I highly doubt anyone else will ever think of using the exact address name)....Go for it!
If anyone can please help clarify this for me it wuold be greatly appreciated!
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1817
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:41:17 GMT
11,091
Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
4,198
Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
October 2016
kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 18, 2023 15:37:20 GMT
Just a question when you get the black screen at boot do you also get about three beeps? If so it may be another issue than overheating all together. That beep format is usually a RAM issue not being seated correctly. I don't get a black screen at boot. I get it when the game crashes the system. It's like mostly black with some of the game icons still visible. Screen corruption as it freezes and then crashes the computer into rebooting. That's rare though. Usually the game just crashes. But it crashes at various temperatures right now. And last night I got a blue screen reboot error for just closing the game normally. That's new... this game does not like my computer, it seems. And I don't know why. I can't even start it from the default exe anymore. It freezes at 100% loaded. This started form one day to the next week's ago. I have to use an alternate exe from the game folder. The one that doesn't trigger the Larian launcher. It's one giant clusterfuck on so many levels. I'm still hoping that everything will be fine when I play a different game. Probably not. But we'll see. |
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
0
5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 18, 2023 19:11:18 GMT
Just a question when you get the black screen at boot do you also get about three beeps? If so it may be another issue than overheating all together. That beep format is usually a RAM issue not being seated correctly. I don't get a black screen at boot. I get it when the game crashes the system. It's like mostly black with some of the game icons still visible. Screen corruption as it freezes and then crashes the computer into rebooting. That's rare though. Usually the game just crashes. But it crashes at various temperatures right now. And last night I got a blue screen reboot error for just closing the game normally. That's new... this game does not like my computer, it seems. And I don't know why. I can't even start it from the default exe anymore. It freezes at 100% loaded. This started form one day to the next week's ago. I have to use an alternate exe from the game folder. The one that doesn't trigger the Larian launcher. It's one giant clusterfuck on so many levels. I'm still hoping that everything will be fine when I play a different game. Probably not. But we'll see. That artifacting and graphical description makes me believe its a DirectX or a VS++ Issue -I lean toward the latter since they are the ones that more often cause blue screens. Windows 11 has removed older VS++ & Direct X drivers for "stream-lining" but the trouble is it often removes required files for older software to work. Maybe these will work: Get the Legacy Direct X runtimes: www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=35Install ALL the executables below. Both the x86 and x64 versions and YES get the 2005 one too. learn.microsoft.com/en-US/cpp/windows/latest-supported-vc-redist?view=msvc-160I would also -I know it may seem weird but update your sound drivers and maybe try a new GPU driver -not the most up to date but one from maybe late July. Going to be out the rest of the day so hope this can help.
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inherit
802
0
5,615
B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,791
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 18, 2023 19:48:21 GMT
Why don't cases have front accessible bays any longer? I need to have a card reader/writer. It's even hard to find cases with a reasonable number of 3½ HD bays. I need at least 3. Check out Fractal Design Define 7. There's one 5" bay and several 3" bays (two in the rack, but more can be added, up to six, I believe). That's the case I chose. Well, I'm very frustrated with cases. All have only 2 x 3½ " bays, and then as you try to find bigger, they only increase the number of 2½ " bays. from 2 to 3 to 4 to even 11. -Why? There is not much sensible 2½ " stuff around to mount there, so this is incomprehensible. I need three 3½ " bays. Raw files and photos need to be doubled, for sake of safety, so two drives. Then I need a normal main drive for everything else. I did find one case having four 3½ " bays, but it was rather big and expensive. It seems a better idea is to spend the money on a 4TB SSD 2½ ". But what is this deal about all the 2½ " bays? HDs are hardly made in that form factor any more, most SSD's are ridiculously small, and SSD are supposed to go into the M.2 these days, right? I did check out the FD Define 7. But what I can see it only has two 3½ " bays? Are you sure I can fit three there?
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inherit
802
0
5,615
B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,791
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 18, 2023 20:24:59 GMT
Reasonably final components now:
AMD Rysen 9 7900
MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk ATX
2 X 32GB DDR5 5600 MHz CL36, brand not decided, maybe Corsair, maybe Kingston.
2 X Seagate Barracuda 8 TB 3½ HD
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inherit
The homeostatic problem-solving structure
8860
0
Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
9,081
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
5,046
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Dragon Age The Veilguard
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 18, 2023 20:32:13 GMT
SATA SSD's > HDD's in everything else except size & price
For OS and/or fast data m.2 SSD > else
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inherit
802
0
5,615
B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,791
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 18, 2023 20:59:08 GMT
SATA SSD's > HDD's in everything else except size & price For OS and/or fast data m.2 SSD > else Of course. The two 8 TB HDs are for data storage. I'm going to have both an M.2 OS drive and one main drive as well. I've just not decided which yet.
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1093
0
1,556
bmwcrazy
1,120
August 2016
bmwcrazy
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Post by bmwcrazy on Sept 19, 2023 2:27:56 GMT
Reasonably final components now: AMD Rysen 9 7900 What about a 7800X3D? Get the 7900 if you really need 12 cores for productivity. If you don't, give the 7800X3D a consideration. The 7800X3D consumes less power than the 7800X and it is much better for gaming type of workload.
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inherit
Another Crazy Finn
11505
0
Nov 22, 2024 14:12:14 GMT
5,391
rewindbutton
2,779
May 2020
rewindbutton
Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR
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Post by rewindbutton on Sept 19, 2023 6:47:28 GMT
Are you sure I can fit three there? The manual says it better than I ever could: Define 7 User GuideIt goes like this: Custom loop: 3x3" + 2x2" (what I have, except I only use the rack, so two 3" drives. But I have the 5" optical drive too.) Optical + AiO: 6x3" + 2x2" Server (everything is air-cooled): 11x3" + 4x2" But what is this deal about all the 2½ " bays? SSDs are the future. Spinning drives are going the way of the dodo. That's why I have those 3" drives; cheap bulk space, seldom accessed, so speed is no issue. Everything software and game related goes into the SSDs. |
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inherit
Another Crazy Finn
11505
0
Nov 22, 2024 14:12:14 GMT
5,391
rewindbutton
2,779
May 2020
rewindbutton
Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR
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Post by rewindbutton on Sept 19, 2023 7:02:09 GMT
AMD Rysen 9 7900 MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk ATX What bmwcrazy said. And maybe balance the build by getting the X670E instead? |
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inherit
802
0
5,615
B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,791
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 19, 2023 12:20:46 GMT
Are you sure I can fit three there? The manual says it better than I ever could: Define 7 User GuideIt goes like this: Custom loop: 3x3" + 2x2" (what I have, except I only use the rack, so two 3" drives. But I have the 5" optical drive too.) Optical + AiO: 6x3" + 2x2" Server (everything is air-cooled): 11x3" + 4x2" But what is this deal about all the 2½ " bays? SSDs are the future. Spinning drives are going the way of the dodo. That's why I have those 3" drives; cheap bulk space, seldom accessed, so speed is no issue. Everything software and game related goes into the SSDs. Thank you so much. A Define 7 it is! It feels good to have taken that step. After that everything becomes more clear. Well, SSDs have the problem that they will stop working. They progressively deteriorate until they can't go on. If the firmware is smart, it will lock it in read only mode, so you can save some data. But you do need to reinstall your OS and your applications on a new drive. This happened to me recently, and I lost the the last Photoshop version (2020 I believe) that would work on my PC (with the help of Intel SSE4 .dll replacement libraries). Those bloody Adobe do not provide 2020 for install any longer, so I effectively lost that application on that particular computer. So I'm not a big fan. However, you gotta adapt. For loading many small files, SSDs are much faster, even on SATA. In fact, even my new upgrade, replacing the old 120GB SSD with a modern 450BG SSD on the same old SATA interface, made the computer like three times faster. -ZAP! -SWISCH! -WOOSCH!My point was more that there aren't even many sensible 2½ " SSDs around anymore. It's all M.2 now. 3½ " HDs otoh, are still highly viable.
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inherit
802
0
5,615
B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,791
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 19, 2023 12:22:35 GMT
Reasonably final components now: AMD Rysen 9 7900 What about a 7800X3D? Get the 7900 if you really need 12 cores for productivity. If you don't, give the 7800X3D a consideration. The 7800X3D consumes less power than the 7800X and it is much better for gaming type of workload. The “X3D” Rysen CPUs have more L3 cache, courtesy of chip stacking (thus “3D”).. I have no doubt about that this makes an otherwise identical CPU faster. However, they are not identical. The Ryzen 9 7900 has 50% more L1 cache space and 50% more L2 cache space than the Ryzen 7 7800X3D. Even though each core doesn't have more L1, L2, 7900 still have the advantage in single-threaded benchmarks, probably due to how modern Oses and schedulers work. And it also easily walks away from the 7800X3D in multithreaded work environments, of course, as it's 12 cores vs 8. The 7800X3D does run game benchmarks faster. That hints that there might be other applications it will also run faster. But in my experience, many cores have always aged well (software wise). I'll rather have more of pedestrian cores, than fewer bleeding edge revving. The 7900 is 65/88 Watt, the 7800X3D is 120/162 Watt.
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inherit
802
0
5,615
B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,791
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 19, 2023 12:24:06 GMT
AMD Rysen 9 7900 MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk ATX What bmwcrazy said. And maybe balance the build by getting the X670E instead? I'm not going to involve myself with any hysterical clock lock-synching overclocking whatever. I'm going to run on stock memory clocks for mainstream memory, 5600, and let the CPU driver run the CPU at default ratings. I'm never going to notice that my USB is not vaporfastest possible. The only thing X670, X670E brings to my table is PCIe 5.0 For what? All the SSD M.2 are PCIe 4.0. All the graphics cards are PCIe 4.0. If there is anything PCIe 5.0 out there, I bet it's very expensive, just like the X670 boards. And then we have that people don't seem happy with their X670 boards?
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1093
0
1,556
bmwcrazy
1,120
August 2016
bmwcrazy
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Post by bmwcrazy on Sept 19, 2023 16:31:11 GMT
The “X3D” Rysen CPUs have more L3 cache, courtesy of chip stacking (thus “3D”).. I have no doubt about that this makes an otherwise identical CPU faster. However, they are not identical. The Ryzen 9 7900 has 50% more L1 cache space and 50% more L2 cache space than the Ryzen 7 7800X3D. Even though each core doesn't have more L1, L2, 7900 still have the advantage in single-threaded benchmarks, probably due to how modern Oses and schedulers work. And it also easily walks away from the 7800X3D in multithreaded work environments, of course, as it's 12 cores vs 8. The 7800X3D does run game benchmarks faster. That hints that there might be other applications it will also run faster. But in my experience, many cores have always aged well (software wise). I'll rather have more of pedestrian cores, than fewer bleeding edge revving. The 7900 is 65/88 Watt, the 7800X3D is 120/162 Watt. The 7800X3D is more efficient than you think. Don't go by the official 120-watt TDP threshold rating. In reality, it actually only uses a maximum of 88 watts exactly like the 7900. While it has less L1 and L2 cache compared to the 7900, it has the advantage of having all eight cores on a single CCD. So you never need to worry about any potential issues from improperly configured OS scheduler. I'm seriously considering having a simple eight-core with 3D V-Cache for my next gaming PC build. The main reason is that modern games are getting more and more CPU bound. I pretty much need the fastest CPUs for games like Starfield to fully take advantage of the RTX 4090. 
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
0
5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 19, 2023 16:59:49 GMT
Check out Fractal Design Define 7. There's one 5" bay and several 3" bays (two in the rack, but more can be added, up to six, I believe). That's the case I chose. Well, I'm very frustrated with cases. All have only 2 x 3½ " bays, and then as you try to find bigger, they only increase the number of 2½ " bays. from 2 to 3 to 4 to even 11. -Why? There is not much sensible 2½ " stuff around to mount there, so this is incomprehensible. I need three 3½ " bays. Raw files and photos need to be doubled, for sake of safety, so two drives. Then I need a normal main drive for everything else. I did find one case having four 3½ " bays, but it was rather big and expensive. It seems a better idea is to spend the money on a 4TB SSD 2½ ". But what is this deal about all the 2½ " bays? HDs are hardly made in that form factor any more, most SSD's are ridiculously small, and SSD are supposed to go into the M.2 these days, right? I did check out the FD Define 7. But what I can see it only has two 3½ " bays? Are you sure I can fit three there? Its going to be hard to find a case that will give you that option. As hard drives physical sizes have gotten smaller -proportionately the PC cases have also decreased in size. Just as the USB Thumb Drive surplanted DVD and CD ROM Drives the bays that once supported huge drives are no longer needed and are basically a depreciated item and have been axed out. That doesn't mean you can't find cases to match you needs but it will be a chore to find. You would be better off getting whatever case you would fancy and then just getting a USB hard drive rack: All I advise is if your data needs to be back upped a lot then for the storage disk(s) I would recommend an WD Red Pro or SG Iron Wolf Pro -due to their supposed installed data recovery software. However if you want a system to never fail and didn't want to go all into the SSD flare and wanted to stick to the basics then you could even build the system using EXOS drives. Sure. It isn't as fast as a Nvme drive but it will do the job required.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 19, 2023 17:00:21 GMT
Reasonably final components now: AMD Rysen 9 7900 MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk ATX 2 X 32GB DDR5 5600 MHz CL36, brand not decided, maybe Corsair, maybe Kingston. 2 X Seagate Barracuda 8 TB 3½ HD Good looking build. You made a good CPU/MB choice. You may have missed it but here is Steve of GN on it: The Corsair will probably be the cheapest RAM you will be able to find. Kingston version is going to run you at current an extra $30. With Barracuda drives being the entry level SG drives if you create, delete, recreate data it will wear the drive out quicker. Just for storage or reading should be ok. Though the warranty on SG Barracuda's is usually 2 years so after that your going to be shelling it out to replace a dead drive -if you even take that route.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
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5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 19, 2023 17:02:57 GMT
The “X3D” Rysen CPUs have more L3 cache, courtesy of chip stacking (thus “3D”).. I have no doubt about that this makes an otherwise identical CPU faster. However, they are not identical. The Ryzen 9 7900 has 50% more L1 cache space and 50% more L2 cache space than the Ryzen 7 7800X3D. Even though each core doesn't have more L1, L2, 7900 still have the advantage in single-threaded benchmarks, probably due to how modern Oses and schedulers work. And it also easily walks away from the 7800X3D in multithreaded work environments, of course, as it's 12 cores vs 8. The 7800X3D does run game benchmarks faster. That hints that there might be other applications it will also run faster. But in my experience, many cores have always aged well (software wise). I'll rather have more of pedestrian cores, than fewer bleeding edge revving. The 7900 is 65/88 Watt, the 7800X3D is 120/162 Watt. The 7800X3D is more efficient than you think. Don't go by the official 120-watt TDP threshold rating. In reality, it actually only uses a maximum of 88 watts exactly like the 7900. While it has less L1 and L2 cache compared to the 7900, it has the advantage of having all eight cores on a single CCD. So you never need to worry about any potential issues from improperly configured OS scheduler. I'm seriously considering having a simple eight-core with 3D V-Cache for my next gaming PC build. The main reason is that modern games are getting more and more CPU bound. I pretty much need the fastest CPUs for games like Starfield to fully take advantage of the RTX 4090. I may be wrong but from what I have gathered B.H.D. is making a photo taking/editing studio PC and gaming will be secondary.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
0
5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 19, 2023 17:21:05 GMT
The manual says it better than I ever could: Define 7 User GuideIt goes like this: Custom loop: 3x3" + 2x2" (what I have, except I only use the rack, so two 3" drives. But I have the 5" optical drive too.) Optical + AiO: 6x3" + 2x2" Server (everything is air-cooled): 11x3" + 4x2" SSDs are the future. Spinning drives are going the way of the dodo. That's why I have those 3" drives; cheap bulk space, seldom accessed, so speed is no issue. Everything software and game related goes into the SSDs. Thank you so much. A Define 7 it is! It feels good to have taken that step. After that everything becomes more clear. Well, SSDs have the problem that they will stop working. They progressively deteriorate until they can't go on. If the firmware is smart, it will lock it in read only mode, so you can save some data. But you do need to reinstall your OS and your applications on a new drive. This happened to me recently, and I lost the the last Photoshop version (2020 I believe) that would work on my PC (with the help of Intel SSE4 .dll replacement libraries). Those bloody Adobe do not provide 2020 for install any longer, so I effectively lost that application on that particular computer. So I'm not a big fan. However, you gotta adapt. For loading many small files, SSDs are much faster, even on SATA. In fact, even my new upgrade, replacing the old 120GB SSD with a modern 450BG SSD on the same old SATA interface, made the computer like three times faster. -ZAP! -SWISCH! -WOOSCH!My point was more that there aren't even many sensible 2½ " SSDs around anymore. It's all M.2 now. 3½ " HDs otoh, are still highly viable. Yes I agree. Card SSD's are fast... not Nvme fast but fast. And some companies still make them like Team Group. Your issue is yet another reason I don't think I will EVER use SSD's. When SSD's fail they fail like a Porsche crumpling around a tree - nothing usually is recoverable -maybe somethings but its a loosing battle if the drive is indeed EOL. Where as when any non SSD fails you first see tire come off. axel falling behind. fenders a mile back. Again both types fail but regular 3 1/2 drives let you know its on its way out long before a SSD can -especially if you know what your looking for.
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Post by bmwcrazy on Sept 19, 2023 17:26:37 GMT
I may be wrong but from what I have gathered B.H.D. is making a photo taking/editing studio PC and gaming will be secondary. It's still something to consider. If you use primarily Photoshop, the performance difference between the two is actually very small. In fact, the 7800X3D actually out performs the 7900 a little bit in Photoshop using PugetBench.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
0
5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 19, 2023 17:44:33 GMT
I may be wrong but from what I have gathered B.H.D. is making a photo taking/editing studio PC and gaming will be secondary. It's still something to consider. If you use primarily Photoshop, the performance difference between the two is actually very small. In fact, the 7800X3D actually out performs the 7900 a little bit in Photoshop using PugetBench. Not me. I use DaVinci Resolve and Sony Vegas -I don't care. I started with it as Vegas and it will remain Vegas!. In my opinion IF they were gaming alone I would agree with you but since their PC is in the designs to be a sort of workstation... That gaming is at worst probably trivial in their case. NOT saying they don't game at all. However I believe B.H.D does use Photoshop so the questions are what other programs are also used and would they benefit from the X3D or not?
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B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,791
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 19, 2023 18:35:14 GMT
I may be wrong but from what I have gathered B.H.D. is making a photo taking/editing studio PC and gaming will be secondary. It's still something to consider. If you use primarily Photoshop, the performance difference between the two is actually very small. In fact, the 7800X3D actually out performs the 7900 a little bit in Photoshop using PugetBench. I'm quite sure the Ryz 7 7800X3D is an excellent CPU. I'd just rather have 12 cores. Except for games, the Ryz 9 7900 is 34% faster on average. But as I said previously, if the X3D is faster in games, it might very well be faster on something else too. However, that's not the typical case. I had a "slow clock" dual core, when everybody else raved about 4.6 GHz and single-thread performance. I had a triple core when everybody else had a dual core. I had a six core when everybody else had a quad core. I'm used to it. I do play games sometimes, but I'm sure I'll be happy enough.
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Post by bmwcrazy on Sept 19, 2023 18:42:09 GMT
Not me. I use DaVinci Resolve and Sony Vegas -I don't care. I started with it as Vegas and it will remain Vegas!. For video editing, you're probably better off using a software that can take advantage of GPU hardware acceleration, like your RTX 3070 Ti that's still in the box. Haha. However, the difference between a 7900 and a 7800X3D in photo editing is very minimal compared to your FX 8370 and Ryzen 5900X. You just need to retire your FX 8370 and start using that 5900X. That you can actually notice the difference.
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