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Post by Little Bengel on May 5, 2021 18:53:20 GMT
This makes me wonder if the First Warden is pushing for coup in the Anderfels, and the conflict in the order is over their involvement in politics. I’m struggling to link this to the Solas plot though. ...have we forgotten the red lyrium-enhanced darkspawn?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 5, 2021 20:06:45 GMT
.have we forgotten the red lyrium-enhanced darkspawn? I haven't, not to mention the red lyrium idol is blighted and Wardens are committed to fighting the blight. Ergo they should be committed to destroying the blighted artifact. Of course, the First Warden may not see it that way.
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Post by Heimdall on May 6, 2021 2:00:57 GMT
This makes me wonder if the First Warden is pushing for coup in the Anderfels, and the conflict in the order is over their involvement in politics. I’m struggling to link this to the Solas plot though. ...have we forgotten the red lyrium-enhanced darkspawn? That is fair, good point. I honestly had forgotten about those.
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Post by theascendent on May 6, 2021 9:17:04 GMT
I am surprised that no one encountered Red Lyrium before since we know that it's Lyrium tainted by the blight and the Darkspawn dwell underground where the main source of Lyrium is found, could they not infect it before or maybe they didn't think they could, maybe the Lyrium has something like blood cells counteracting the blight and the original source of Red Lyrium (Dead Titan maybe) had to be forced to be infected and from there it spread infecting other sources of Lyrium and growing rapidly. Maybe the Lyrium can defend itself from the blight but not from the blighted Lyrium?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 6, 2021 15:00:59 GMT
I am surprised that no one encountered Red Lyrium before since we know that it's Lyrium tainted by the blight and the Darkspawn dwell underground where the main source of Lyrium is found, could they not infect it before or maybe they didn't think they could, maybe the Lyrium has something like blood cells counteracting the blight..... We know from the Descent that the darkspawn seem to actively avoid the deep Deep Roads where the Wellspring Titan could be found. I can't believe that is simply because of the Shy-Brytol guarding the place as they didn't seem that numerous, so there had to be something actively repelling the darkspawn by it mere presence. Could it be the raw lyrium in liquid form? The stuff the dwarves mine is described as crystaline, so maybe effectively dried blood and thus easier to be contaminated by the Blight, whereas the stuff we found flowing from the Wellspring was the living blood of a titan and possibly does have not only immunity to infection but is possibly deadly to darkspawn should they come into contact with it, so they know to steer clear. Otherwise their avoidance of the Wellspring doesn't make sense. It could also explain why the Sha-Brytol have never been infected either. By way of contrast, whilst being too close to raw crystaline lyrium is apparently deadly dangerous and will cause mages to start bleeding from their eyeballs and haemorrhaging internally or just going stark raving mad; our mage companions were able to be close to the lyrium ocean of the Wellspring with no ill effects whatsoever. So clearly there has to be something different about raw blue crystalline lyrium and the liquid streams of silver of lyrium in its purest form. Or maybe red lyrium originated from the magic that subdued the titan, so the original source of the Blight, and it was the Evanuris using it to advance their power that spread it more widely. You may recall that right at the beginning of DAI in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, when we discover red lyrium is there and Varric and Cassandra are questioning how it could be there, Solas says, but is ignored by the other two, that maybe it had to do with the magic connected with the explosion (which means it almost certainly did). In Trespasser we have that account of (Solas?) finding something terrible in the Deep Roads that was clearly associated with the original war with the titans and then ordering his followers to seal off the area. Could it be the Blighted titan that he found and the monsters that had resulted from coming into contact with it? When he raised the Veil to imprison the Evanuris, this strengthened the seal on the Deep Roads monsters, keeping them locked within until Cory and his pals broke into the Black City, thus causing the seals to be breached and the darkspawn to escape. If this is the case, I suspect the blighted titan was the original brood-mother and that is the corrupted beating heart we see in that trailer last year.
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Post by Julilla on May 12, 2021 18:20:08 GMT
I'm wondering if the removal of the Red Lyrium idol in DA2 is what started this off. Perhaps it was something like a magic lock that kept anyone from getting into the area where it was. Bertrand taking off with it started a chain reaction of sorts.
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Post by Heimdall on May 12, 2021 18:30:05 GMT
I’m actually wondering about the crowned griffon on the shield. It makes me wonder if the current First Warden could be a member of the Anderfels royal family, pulling a Sophia Dryden perhaps.
Or the First Warden just has royal ambitions independent of any blood claim.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 12, 2021 20:17:06 GMT
It makes me wonder if the current First Warden could be a member of the Anderfels royal family, pulling a Sophia Dryden perhaps. I wonder if there is some closer royal connection to the Wardens that has been kept secret from the outside world but is known to the First Warden and that is why they feel justified in being involved in the Anderfel's political scene. You may recall that in Last Flight the queen of the Anderfels made having a night of passion with Garahel the condition upon which she would give her aid. I always thought this was a bit rich considering Garahel's forces had just saved her country from the darkspawn but nevertheless he agreed to it. Now I know it is said to be difficult for Wardens to have children but it is not impossible, particularly if you have access to Morrigan type fertility magic. It may even be that the queen convinced Garahel because she was attempting to use a similar ritual to Morrigan but didn't realise there was a limit to how far the Old God soul could jump, so Garahel died anyway. So what if the queen of the Anderfels had a child by Garahel and it was they who inherited the throne on her death? Perhaps the First Warden of that time got to hear of it and noted it down in their records at HQ. This means from then on the First Warden is aware of the fact that the royal line is not only elf bloodied but the Wardens have a claim on the throne. Pretty useful tool for blackmail if the First Warden should want to use it. May be the crown on the shield of either the First Warden or simply Wardens based in the Anderfels is a not so subtle way of reminding the royal family of this connection.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 29, 2021 14:40:37 GMT
So, do you think they are going to revive the Warden civil war plot hinted at in the epilogue to DAI? According to Varric in Trespasser, the situation at Weisshaupt was a mess, even though there seemed no sign of that in Last Flight, but if we assume that it didn't explode as Hawke left in disgust to return to Kirkwall (as also suggested was the fate of Weisshaupt by Varric), then it is possible the trouble only escalated after Hawke's departure.
What we know from WoT: The First Warden is heavily involved with the Anderfels political scene and possibly planning a coup to take over leadership of the country. Meanwhile, the running of the Wardens at Weisshaupt has been pretty much left in the hands of his second in command, the High Constable.
What we know from Last Flight: The First Warden/High Constable was concerned enough about something that caused them to encourage research into instances of darkspawn using blood magic and wardens behaving oddly, also intelligent darkspawn. This suggests that Weisshaupt had heard the rumours out of the south concerning Corypheus, or possibly this was in response to what they knew about the activities of the Architect. Still at least it does mean the leadership hadn't totally abandoned their responsibilities in this respect.
What we know from Tevinter Nights: A warden survivor would have carried warning of the strange new magical pools they had discovered in the Deep Roads that had a disturbing effect on darkspawn, not to mention any wardens who came in contact with them. All available Wardens that could be contacted had been recalled to Weisshaupt. It seems likely this was connected with the latest discovery, although it could also have to do with southern wardens turning up and raising issues with the First Warden or discoveries the researchers had made after the events in Last Flight.
What we know from teaser trailers and concept art: Wardens are definitely going to be involved in the action in DA4. So will this just be a major sub-plot, maybe which needs dealing with before they will give their assistance? Or will it be directly connected with Solas' plans or those of other major players, such as the Executors? For example, those pools have been activated by some ancient magic. Will it actually be the Grey Wardens asking for the assistance of our new hero and their squad to deal with the threat of the pools and through that they discover something more to help in their quest to save the world? Could the latest image of a grey warden be the High Constable rather than the First Warden?
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on May 29, 2021 17:58:46 GMT
Still banking on the First Warden being revealed to be one of the Magisters (#6 - Augur of Mystery) who got into the Black City, the Warden who killed Dumat and lived or both.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on May 30, 2021 1:30:23 GMT
Still banking on the First Warden being revealed to be one of the Magisters (#6 - Augur of Mystery) who got into the Black City, the Warden who killed Dumat and lived or both. I'm curious about how this theory works exactly. Do you mean the first warden ever who invented the process of becoming a warden to help fight the Blight was the Augur of Mystery? Or 'The First Warden' the title that is carried by whoever is currently in charge of the wardens, is currently held by the Augur of Mystery? In which case do you think that they have always been the first warden and that they have been body hoping like Corypheus into every newly promoted candidate effectively engaging in a long line of murders to stay in charge? Or that they are only the newest, current First Warden. The previous ones were just regular wardens? Or do you think the wardens are in on it, the higher ups are fine with a very powerful ghoul (or otherwise immortal being) being in charge, and are engaging in an elaborate ruse to trick the world/the Anderfels/most of their order into thinking they change leadership every decade or two? Hmmm I could see a member of magister sidereel helping to create the joining, and even still advising the wardens now. But if they were controlling the wardens this entire time it might be easier to do that if the first warden was a figure head and they were doing it from the shadows, rather than trying to hide the fact that they are the first warden.
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Post by Iddy on May 30, 2021 2:51:42 GMT
Love the cape. I wish we had capes in the DA games, like in Dragon's Dogma.
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Post by Walter Black on May 30, 2021 20:04:51 GMT
Hate to say it, but I'm beginning to get burnt out on the Grey Wardens. I liked them in the beginning, but sometimes it appears Bioware is using increasingly convoluted plots to justify Warden presences. Let them rest for a game or two, and spotlight other groups.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 30, 2021 20:43:25 GMT
Let them rest for a game or two, and spotlight other groups. Ordinarily I might agree with you, particularly when it comes to the discovery of these strange new pools, which is odd in itself because there was a considerable amount of time from the close of the elven empire to the rise of the darkspawn when the Deep Roads were meant to be a hive of dwarven activity and yet they were not discovered. As it is, they are not necessarily something that the Wardens would ordinarily be concerned about had one of their number not made the discovery, yet I suspect they are going to be caught up in any events concerning these pools. However, with all the hints about the Blight and red lyrium being connected with the ancient elves, and my belief that Solas' determination to drop the Veil may have something to do with that when it comes to saving the elves, it would be surprising if the Wardens didn't get involved in the plot in some way.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 30, 2021 20:58:40 GMT
Another character concept and it's the old and the true, the grey and the blue. Really reminded me the look of the Knights from HOMM5. Not that it's a bad thing.
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Post by Walter Black on May 30, 2021 22:25:21 GMT
Let them rest for a game or two, and spotlight other groups. Ordinarily I might agree with you, particularly when it comes to the discovery of these strange new pools, which is odd in itself because there was a considerable amount of time from the close of the elven empire to the rise of the darkspawn when the Deep Roads were meant to be a hive of dwarven activity and yet they were not discovered. As it is, they are not necessarily something that the Wardens would ordinarily be concerned about had one of their number not made the discovery, yet I suspect they are going to be caught up in any events concerning these pools. However, with all the hints about the Blight and red lyrium being connected with the ancient elves, and my belief that Solas' determination to drop the Veil may have something to do with that when it comes to saving the elves, it would be surprising if the Wardens didn't get involved in the plot in some way. But that's my point, so much of this reads to me like, "make sure we have something taint related for GW fanservice". If it's Dwarven, why not involve the Legion of the Dead? Not everyone trusts the Wardens, so why aren't different governments or the Chantry investigating? It could prove a nice change of pace to explore the mindsets and tactics of those without Warden attributes. From a gameplay standpoint, they could showcase so many different kinds of monsters; new demons, elementals, lost golems, runaway Magister experiments and mutants. Since the Mournwatch was name dropped, we could get new variants of undead. Maybe even DA's version of vampires... Basically, they don't *have* to rely on Grey Wardens and darkspawn as a crutch for scary and cool boss fights.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 31, 2021 7:32:47 GMT
From a gameplay standpoint, they could showcase so many different kinds of monsters; new demons, elementals, lost golems, runaway Magister experiments and mutants. Since the Mournwatch was name dropped, we could get new variants of undead. "Demons, dragons, darkspawn, even the Dread Wolf." It does sound pretty much like business as usual, although that concept art of the "evil god" isn't like anything we've met before. If it's Dwarven, why not involve the Legion of the Dead? Well, of course, technically the Legion of the Dead are specific to Orzammar and that is down south. However, I'm still holding out for some new unique dwarves from Kal-Sharok to be involved. They did drop some hints that something sinister lay behind their survival but that could turn out to be a blessing if it gives them certain immunity and skills against the darkspawn they could definitely be an alternative to the Wardens. Actually, that raises an interesting question. Allegedly the Kal-Sharok dwarves survived for some 900 years without anyone being aware of it. This seems unlikely but even if some groups were aware of the survival of Kal-Sharok, apparently the Orzammar dwarves were not until the Dragon Age. However, one group that you would think would be aware was the Grey Wardens. Kal-Sharok is even located up near the Anderfels and so you would think the links with Weisshaupt would always have been strong, unless for some reason the Kal-Sharok dwarves did not approve of the Wardens. Even so, you would have thought the Wardens would try to have stayed in touch and were in a better position than most to do so. So did they know and keep quite about it? Then again, what about those strange pools the Wardens recently became aware of. Did Kal-Sharok know about them already? Was it utilising the power of the pools to create hybrids to combat the darkspawn that allowed them to survive, the dwarves having discovered a way of retaining control of the minds of the resulting monsters? There has been enough dwarven concept art that my hope for some Kal-Sharok content may be fulfilled and I do wonder if that is going to be connected with these other plot threads that have been hinted at in Tevinter Nights. Either way, I have to admit I'm more fascinated by the prospect of finally meeting the Kal-Sharok dwarves and hearing their hidden history than going to Weisshaupt.
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Samus Aran, your heart is fine <3
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Jun 1, 2021 22:51:38 GMT
Still banking on the First Warden being revealed to be one of the Magisters (#6 - Augur of Mystery) who got into the Black City, the Warden who killed Dumat and lived or both. I'm curious about how this theory works exactly. Do you mean the first warden ever who invented the process of becoming a warden to help fight the Blight was the Augur of Mystery?
Or 'The First Warden' the title that is carried by whoever is currently in charge of the wardens, is currently held by the Augur of Mystery? In which case do you think that they have always been the first warden and that they have been body hoping like Corypheus into every newly promoted candidate effectively engaging in a long line of murders to stay in charge? Or that they are only the newest, current First Warden. The previous ones were just regular wardens? Or do you think the wardens are in on it, the higher ups are fine with a very powerful ghoul (or otherwise immortal being) being in charge, and are engaging in an elaborate ruse to trick the world/the Anderfels/most of their order into thinking they change leadership every decade or two? Hmmm I could see a member of magister sidereel helping to create the joining, and even still advising the wardens now. But if they were controlling the wardens this entire time it might be easier to do that if the first warden was a figure head and they were doing it from the shadows, rather than trying to hide the fact that they are the first warden.Somewhere along the lines of those two, since the Augur was one of the magisters it would make sense they would know how to create joining with darkspawn/old god blood, since they were/probably were around the Old Gods in Tevinter a lot. Although since the Magister is known as the Augur, I'm also baking on that they'll be revealed to have been an Avvar in contrast to Corypheus and The Architect. I think I read though in one of the World of Thedas books that the First Constable is seen as the figurehead now though, instead of the First Warden. At least in the Anderfels anyway, I'm not sure how this ties into their political ambitions. I'll write my thoughts down in the crazy theory centre tomorrow, it also ties in with the Old God Andraste theory I have in my head.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 2, 2021 8:06:39 GMT
Although since the Magister is known as the Augur, I'm also baking on that they'll be revealed to have been an Avvar in contrast to Corypheus and The Architect. Now thinking about this I realise this theory isn't as crazy as it first appears. The use of the term Augur doesn't necessarily point to an Avvar connection since the ancient Neromenians appeared to have similar beliefs to the Avvar about reincarnation, more specifically that their heroes would be reborn as dragons. Which, of course, is also in keeping with the beliefs of the Cult of Andraste at Haven, who were an offshoot of the Alamarri, just like the Avvar. So it would seem the term Augur was probably used by early humans to indicate the member of the community who was responsible for communicating with and knew the most about the spirit world. What points to a closer connection between the High Priest of Razikale and the Avvar is the fact that when Razikale had gone silent, the priesthood sought answers in the Frostback Basin. This seems peculiar if they had no prior knowledge of the area. In DAO we were given the impression that the limit of the Imperium's influence in the south was pretty much the fortress at Ostagar. This was an outpost constructed to keep watch for barbarian invasion from the south into the more fertile and useful areas to the north. Whilst the Imperium may have conducted the odd foray beyond this initially to see if there was anything useful there, clearly they didn't feel there was anything worth fighting over. Yet the priesthood not only sought answers far beyond the previous limit of Tevinter interest in the area but even knew the specific location that would fit their purpose. What we do not know is whether they did get any answers. The inscriptions seem to show they had lost contact with the north before their ritual, so who knows what happened to them afterwards. Did they in fact make contact with the Magister Sidereal, the Augur of Mystery, even if Razikale remained silent? Or was it the Augur of Mystery who suggested the location to them? Sadly, a precise date was not given for their enterprise, whether it was before or after the assault on the Black City, although the reference to a throne that does not exist might suggest the latter. Is the reason their messages to the capital went unanswered the fact that the Blight had begun and the rest of the Imperium had other rather pressing matters to attend to? The idea that one of the Magisters Sidereal was involved with the Joining Ritual sounds crazy at first but the Wardens had to have got their ideas about the Joining from someone. I mean who would normally come up with the idea that drinking your enemies' blood is going to make you immune to them, let alone adding a drop of darkspawn blood to the mix? Now it was originally suggested in the lore that it was elven slaves recruited to the Wardens who came up with the idea of the Joining. I'm pretty sure that had to have been based on some earlier lore they were familiar with or some contact with a spirit of the Fade because, whilst they would be familiar with blood magic, it is something of a leap from that to the Joining. Of course, it is possible that it was Mythal who spoke to them from the Fade. In fact, it is not entirely ridiculous to suggest that Mythal was Razikale, considering that unlike the other elven gods we know she was definitely present in the Fade and it would also make sense for her to cover her identity if she didn't want her enemies to recognise her until she had rebuilt her power sufficiently. Whilst some of the other Old Gods appear to have changed gender over time, Razikale has always been female. People have questioned why, if the Old Gods were elven, they would have sanctioned the attack on the city in Arlathan Forest. Well, in the case of Mythal, she might have had a very good reason if the rulers there were the priesthood of the other Evanuris who had murdered her. If her aim was to ultimately to free and restore her People, then bringing down the corrupt hierachy would have been an important step towards that goal. Then if Tevinter became corrupted by power and its capital (a city of which she was chief patron) no longer listened to the wisdom of Razikale, might she not have withdrawn and encouraged her priesthood (through their dreams) to seek answers in the south? Meanwhile, she guided the Grey Wardens, through their elven members, into developing the Joining Ritual that would ultimately allow her to capture the souls of the Old Gods. (We don't know how successful she was with this but the possibility was there). Finally, in order to free her city (Minrathous) and the slaves, she answered the prayers of a young Alamarri woman seeking the aid of the gods for her people and ensured that her path crossed with that of Shartan, who was seeking the same. However, back to the First Warden. Even if the founder of the Grey Wardens wasn't the actual Magister Sidereal of that name, it is entirely possible it was founded by one of their successors to the title. I think a Magister Sidereal would have resulted in a quicker victory over the Arch-demon. After all, Dumat was around for another 100 years or so before they got the better of him. Another thing to consider is that the Intelligent Darkspawn only seemed to surface after his demise and Corypheus at least seemed unaware of that fact but was drawn to his remains. That led me to another theory that each of the Magisters was drawn to the location of their own particular god. The Architect certainly ended up reviving his god, Urthemiel, so what if the others did the same. So start of each Blight is dependent on the respective Magister breaking through and reviving their god, not simply the darkspawn. Also, according to the Core Rule Book, in one version of the founding of the Order we actually have a name for the First Warden of that time, Carinus. Now it also says that not everyone acknowledges this version of the story but presumably the Warden archives would know. There is also some mention of Carinus and "his circle". If we assume Circle rather than circle, it is quite possible that Carinus was a mage and the reason the story was altered in the south was because of the Chantry's propaganda against mages. So, if he was a mage, then we come back to the idea that the First Warden could have been the Augur of Mystery, a high priest of Razikale.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 2, 2021 11:40:04 GMT
What points to a closer connection between the High Priest of Razikale and the Avvar is the fact that when Razikale had gone silent, the priesthood sought answers in the Frostback Basin. This seems peculiar if they had no prior knowledge of the area. In DAO we were given the impression that the limit of the Imperium's influence in the south was pretty much the fortress at Ostagar. This was an outpost constructed to keep watch for barbarian invasion from the south into the more fertile and useful areas to the north. Whilst the Imperium may have conducted the odd foray beyond this initially to see if there was anything useful there, clearly they didn't feel there was anything worth fighting over. Just a point of fact that Fort Drakon was also a Tevinter fortress. It’s confusing and easy to overlook because the name makes us think of Orlais, but Kordillus never set foot in Ferelden. By some coincidence, the fortress and river nearby must have been named for the Tevinter family his father came from, I assume. I’ll only add to your point that we’ve been told the Avvar were the most successful of the three Alamarri tribes in fighting the Tevinter, so it would have taken a lot for them to build an outpost so deep in their territory.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 2, 2021 15:43:53 GMT
I am surprised that no one encountered Red Lyrium before since we know that it's Lyrium tainted by the blight and the Darkspawn dwell underground where the main source of Lyrium is found, could they not infect it before or maybe they didn't think they could, maybe the Lyrium has something like blood cells counteracting the blight and the original source of Red Lyrium (Dead Titan maybe) had to be forced to be infected and from there it spread infecting other sources of Lyrium and growing rapidly. Maybe the Lyrium can defend itself from the blight but not from the blighted Lyrium? I suspect that lyrium can’t be corrupted through normal means, ie. proximity to the darkspawn. While it is the “blood of the Titans,” that doesn’t mean it’s an organic substance. It’s still a mineral, and quite a lethal one at that.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 2, 2021 16:26:31 GMT
I suspect that lyrium can’t be corrupted through normal means, ie. proximity to the darkspawn. While it is the “blood of the Titans,” that doesn’t mean it’s an organic substance. It’s still a mineral, and quite a lethal one at that. I also suspect that the writers haven't really thought this through all the implications of the narrative they have started on this one. Back in DAO and throughout the lore in WoT lyrium is a mineral, whether blue or red and they just appear to be different variants of the substance. Then in DAI they through a whole new concept in the mix, that red lyrium is corrupted with the Blight. Naturally the thought would be, how? Also, why this lyrium and not all the rest of the stuff in the Deep Roads considering how long the darkspawn have been down there. We also got the information that it seems capable of being "grown" on living matter, even to the extent of the microbes in the soil. This could partly account for its spread on the surface but still doesn't really make a lot of sense since, again, why wasn't it more common in the Deep Roads? So there must be some way of stopping its spread, just as the Blight remains contained to a specific area, such as Lothering and hasn't extended further than that. Finally, in the Descent, we have the revelation that lyrium is the blood of titans, so now it is not a mineral at all but an organic substance. In its purest form it is liquid. This makes its corruption by the Blight more understandable but opens a whole new can of worms. For example, was it red lyrium that started the Blight or the Blight that corrupted the lyrium? Why are darkspawn actively repelled by pure lyrium and why has that living titan remained un-corrupted when lyrium is capable of being infected? Somehow they are going to have to come up with an explanation for all this that is consistent and makes sense but I wouldn't be surprised if they just hand wave away any anomalies for the sake of the story.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 2, 2021 18:17:09 GMT
While I think we'll learn the truth in DA4, I suspect we'll learn that the ancient elves magically infused lyrium with the Blight in order to create a far more powerful variant of lyrium. I also think we'll learn that the "Ancient Thaig" in DA2 was not dwarven at all, but elven in nature.
I don't believe the Titans are organic beings. They're a different form of life completely unlike anything else that exists in Thedas. Thus, their "blood" can be a mineral, because that's just the word we're using to describe something beyond our understanding.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 3, 2021 3:08:33 GMT
I suspect that lyrium can’t be corrupted through normal means, ie. proximity to the darkspawn. While it is the “blood of the Titans,” that doesn’t mean it’s an organic substance. It’s still a mineral, and quite a lethal one at that. I also suspect that the writers haven't really thought this through all the implications of the narrative they have started on this one. Back in DAO and throughout the lore in WoT lyrium is a mineral, whether blue or red and they just appear to be different variants of the substance. Then in DAI they through a whole new concept in the mix, that red lyrium is corrupted with the Blight. Naturally the thought would be, how? Also, why this lyrium and not all the rest of the stuff in the Deep Roads considering how long the darkspawn have been down there. We also got the information that it seems capable of being "grown" on living matter, even to the extent of the microbes in the soil. This could partly account for its spread on the surface but still doesn't really make a lot of sense since, again, why wasn't it more common in the Deep Roads? So there must be some way of stopping its spread, just as the Blight remains contained to a specific area, such as Lothering and hasn't extended further than that. Finally, in the Descent, we have the revelation that lyrium is the blood of titans, so now it is not a mineral at all but an organic substance. In its purest form it is liquid. This makes its corruption by the Blight more understandable but opens a whole new can of worms. For example, was it red lyrium that started the Blight or the Blight that corrupted the lyrium? Why are darkspawn actively repelled by pure lyrium and why has that living titan remained un-corrupted when lyrium is capable of being infected? Somehow they are going to have to come up with an explanation for all this that is consistent and makes sense but I wouldn't be surprised if they just hand wave away any anomalies for the sake of the story. I wouldn't say that we know that liquid is it's pure or natural form. Unless I'm forgetting something the only references to liquid lyrium are the way golems are made (by putting molten lyrium through eyes of the armour onto the living dwarf volunteer) and in the sha brytol codex where there was a pool of titans blood in the room where they seal themselves in their armour. Here it doesn't specify whether the pool is kept hot as in the golem case but since it's a man-made(so to speak) room it seems less likely it would be in its natural state (also entombing themselves in their armour with liquid lyrium seems to similar to caridans process to be a coincidence). We haven't actually seen any for ourselves yet as far as I know? Of course it is entirely possible that when inside the body/veins of the Titan the lyrium is hot and therefore molten and that it cools and hardens when it leaves the body, but the "heart" that partially shattered and created the guardian to protect the Titan was solid, as were the various veins climbing up the walls. Perhaps we weren't deep enough or perhaps the lyrium grows more like crystals. (And red lyrium distinguishes itself by being able too do so quicker) I agree it's interesting that most of the lyrium in the deep roads appears uncorrupted. Makes it seem as if either the Titan has to be corrupted for its blood to be (and perhaps only one Titan had been so far) or that more than exposure has to be done to lyrium for it to get infected. Eg. Blight magic/blood magic experiment. With regard to the theory of a Titan being the source of the blight, they're so huge and the evanuris killed atleast one. It brings to mind the importance of properly burying your dead so as not to contaminate your water supply (or lyrium supply?) and avoiding contact with diseased bodies. How do you do that when the body is gigantic and underground already? When you don't even know when your standing over it and eventually people forget that it even existed? How long does it take a titan to decompose? The Titan in The Descent had the Buried sea, who knows which above ground water source/ocean that eventually connects to. How would the Dwarven Kingdoms have known if an underground lake or river or whatever water source they were drinking from had passed through a corrupted area? Through a corrupted Titan? When they had expunged them from the memories? No wonder they fell.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 3, 2021 7:58:17 GMT
I don't believe the Titans are organic beings. They're a different form of life completely unlike anything else that exists in Thedas. Thus, their "blood" can be a mineral, because that's just the word we're using to describe something beyond our understanding. Bianca says the following about lyrium: "Lyrium is alive! Or....something like it. Blight doesn't affect minerals. Only animals." This is a a definite statement concerning the nature of red lyrium. Whilst Bianca would seem to admit that she doesn't completely understand what lyrium is in terms of a living being, since she doesn't know about the titans, she states definitively what it is not. So unless the writers were trying to deliberately mislead us, we must assume that what we had previously been told was wrong. In fact it is likely they were setting us up for the revelation in the Descent about the relationship between the titans and lyrium. Lyrium is not a mineral, it is an organic substance that is effectively the blood of a living being. Of course it is entirely possible that when inside the body/veins of the Titan the lyrium is hot and therefore molten and that it cools and hardens when it leaves the body, This does seem like a good explanation for the difference between the lyrium we find in the Wellspring and the stuff the dwarves mine. The latter has effectively become detached from the living being and thus has solidified, just as drops of blood do outside the body. I agree it's interesting that most of the lyrium in the deep roads appears uncorrupted. Makes it seem as if either the Titan has to be corrupted for its blood to be (and perhaps only one Titan had been so far) or that more than exposure has to be done to lyrium for it to get infected. Eg. Blight magic/blood magic experiment. This does seem likely. Either its corpse became corrupted through the magic that killed it or the titan wasn't killed but subdued but again the magic used corrupted it (that beating red heart in the video last year would suggest it isn't dead). I've pointed out before that Solas mentions at the Shrine of Sacred Ashes that perhaps the reason for the presence of red lyrium there was the magic used in the explosion. Cassandra and Varric are too engrossed in each other to pay attention to what he says but it seems he was probably speaking from experience. The explosion was caused by the magic released from an elven orb of power and Solas thinks that could have corrupted the lyrium at the site. Remember Oghran says the Shrine was built over a mountain full of the stuff and this could account for the healing properties of the ashes. Then someone re-positioned the camera in the final battle with Corypheus to show an image of Mythal in the floor tiles, suggesting the Shrine was built over an earlier one dedication to Mythal. From what we know from Trespasser, Mythal was involved with the mining of lyrium, so that figures. So when Solas suggests that elven magic corrupted the lyrium, that seems likely to me and points to what happened in the past. Here it doesn't specify whether the pool is kept hot as in the golem case but since it's a man-made(so to speak) room it seems less likely it would be in its natural state ( also entombing themselves in their armour with liquid lyrium seems to similar to caridans process to be a coincidence). We haven't actually seen any for ourselves yet as far as I know? There definitely seems to be some sort of link there and Caradin likely discovered something in the Deep Roads, either pictures or runes from an earlier period, that gave him his ideas. Seeing as the general trend of the writers is to imply the Evanuris as responsible, directly or indirectly, for everything bad that has happened in the world, my money at present would be on June having been the creator of the original process that Caradin re-discovered. Golems were definitely around at a much earlier period because of their presence in the Ancient Thaig and also the fact that the Juggernaut Golems were gifted to Tevinter long before the era of the Blights. It is also interesting that Meredith was able to animate the statues in Kirkwall through the power of red lyrium.
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