AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 3,159 Likes: 9,167
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angryfrozenwater
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Sept 15, 2021 15:58:55 GMT
I am fairly new to the series and recently completed all three games for the firs time. Anyway there is something that has been bothering me since completing ME2. What was The Illusive Man's goal for Shepard in ME2? I mean why did he want to bring back Shepard with his morality intact? Why didn't he let Miranda implant a control chip into Shepard? Why did he want an unaltered Shepard? I mean when I played ME1 I was a full Paragon, did he not know that Shepard would not follow his extreme orders? In ME1 Shepard killed many of the experiments done by Cerberus. At the end of the Suicide Mission when The Illusive Man tells Shepard not to destroy the Collector's Base. I was expecting TIM to pull the kill switch he secretly had implanted into Shepard's brain when he said no. Instead TIM invested billions of credits to bring back Shepard, only to have him say no when TIM would tell him to do something extreme. That makes no sense. If I was TIM I would have installed a kill switch and then when Shepard is on the Collector base activate the switch once he refuses. Also I know that TIM recruited Joker and Chakwas because they were familiar faces. But did he not think that they would both betray him in the end? I believe that all TIM wants is power. Like any narcissist, TIM believes that he is smarter than anyone else. Obviously, TIM is incredibly rich, so he will use that wealth to gain that power. He needs to control the reapers. And Shepard is, like anyone else, just a tool to advance his goal. Like we know, TIM will fail, but that doesn't keep him from trying. TIM believes that Shepard is determined to stop the reapers. So, TIM wants to convince Shepard to take his side. Messing with Shepard's mind, may demotivate Shepard or damage Shepard's determination. And that is why TIM behaves that way. I have given up to blame the plot holes in the story, because there are too many. All that I have left is take the game's lore literally and close an eye here and there. That way I can enjoy the game to some degree.
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DragonEffect
N2
Pathfinding my way through life.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 209 Likes: 461
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DragonEffect
Pathfinding my way through life.
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dragoneffect
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by DragonEffect on Sept 16, 2021 20:30:45 GMT
There's no logical or rational explanation for a magnate to spend billions of whatever the currency in the fictional future of ME is just to bring one human back from the brink of death (along with their ship and crew). The whole argument of "we need Shepard back, exactly as they were, with their personality intact" follows the hero worship logic, which has a purely emotional appeal: the fate of the world, the universe, etc lies in the hands of a single individual, who is given extraordinary abilities, such as superpowers, the authority to act where others cannot, leadership skills, access to advanced technology and unusually powerful weapons and/or incredible luck. Not to forget plot armor. The hero just can't die until their mission is complete.
Shepard's resurrection by TIM's hands - it was actually Miranda's, but she followed his orders - was just a convenient plot device, nothing more.
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AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 3,159 Likes: 9,167
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angryfrozenwater
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Sept 23, 2021 15:26:35 GMT
There's no logical or rational explanation for a magnate to spend billions of whatever the currency in the fictional future of ME is just to bring one human back from the brink of death (along with their ship and crew). The whole argument of "we need Shepard back, exactly as they were, with their personality intact" follows the hero worship logic, which has a purely emotional appeal: the fate of the world, the universe, etc lies in the hands of a single individual, who is given extraordinary abilities, such as superpowers, the authority to act where others cannot, leadership skills, access to advanced technology and unusually powerful weapons and/or incredible luck. Not to forget plot armor. The hero just can't die until their mission is complete. Shepard's resurrection by TIM's hands - it was actually Miranda's, but she followed his orders - was just a convenient plot device, nothing more. Agreed. Hero worship is why we play games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age. However, that plot device is part of the resurrection story. TIM mentions specifically that he doesn't want to change Shepard. Unlike Miranda, who admits that she wanted to implant a security device in Shepard. She even apologizes for that later on.
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At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
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lordmoral
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by lordmoral on Sept 27, 2021 20:45:02 GMT
Has no one stopped to think when we find put that Cronos station is in the same Cluster as Noveria? We ran into a Cerberus Fighter base there, which now makes sense as a defensive emplacement, and that the entire Noveria Board of Directors might have been the ones below TIM? That planet screams as a giant Cerberus front in which most of the galaxy dirty experiments were conducted, do you think there were plans to make Noveria have as many missions as both Rannoch and Tuchanka?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 27, 2021 20:59:44 GMT
Has no one stopped to think when we find put that Cronos station is in the same System as Noveria? We ran into a Cerberus Fighter base there, which now makes sense as a defensive emplacement, and that the entire Noveria Board of Directors might have been the ones below TIM? That planet screams as a giant Cerberus front in which most of the galaxy dirty experiments were conducted, do you think there were plans to make Noveria have as many missions as both Rannoch and Tuchanka? It’s not in the same system. It’s in the same cluster, but still light years away. And the station moves constantly. I’m sure Cerberus was involved in some of the businesses in Noveria (we do take down a small base there in ME3), but we know a lot of other groups were too.
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At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
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lordmoral
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Post by lordmoral on Sept 27, 2021 21:24:09 GMT
Has no one stopped to think when we find put that Cronos station is in the same System as Noveria? We ran into a Cerberus Fighter base there, which now makes sense as a defensive emplacement, and that the entire Noveria Board of Directors might have been the ones below TIM? That planet screams as a giant Cerberus front in which most of the galaxy dirty experiments were conducted, do you think there were plans to make Noveria have as many missions as both Rannoch and Tuchanka? It’s not in the same system. It’s in the same cluster, but still light years away. And the station moves constantly. I’m sure Cerberus was involved in some of the businesses in Noveria (we do take down a small base there in ME3), but we know a lot of other groups were too. Thanks for the correction on its location, but I am sure the place stays where it is at as that is the star that we saw in ME2 now, you don't have access to Binaryx Helix samples the way Cerberus does unless they have many more companies in your pocket, we know that at least the Volus aided Cerberus during the Collector crisis.
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AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 3,159 Likes: 9,167
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Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
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AngryFrozenWater
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angryfrozenwater
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Oct 1, 2021 21:08:01 GMT
According to Javik there were people like Saren and TIM in his cycle as well. It makes you wonder if Saren and TIM were "planted". TIM and his mercenaries fought against anybody, just like Saren and the geth. Both were intrigants. This would weaken any resistance before the harvest. When TIM and company would be fully indoctrinated they could aid in the harvest.
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At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
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lordmoral
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Post by lordmoral on Oct 1, 2021 21:22:08 GMT
According to Javik there were people like Saren and TIM in his cycle as well. It makes you wonder if Saren and TIM were "planted". TIM and his mercenaries fought against anybody, just like Saren and the geth. Both were intrigants. This would weaken any resistance before the harvest. When TIM and company would be fully indoctrinated they could aid in the harvest. Cerberus was to be the Collectors for the next cycle, Cronos Station would have been moved over beyond the Omega 4 Relay to be used as DNA analytics.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 3, 2021 1:56:50 GMT
According to Javik there were people like Saren and TIM in his cycle as well. It makes you wonder if Saren and TIM were "planted". TIM and his mercenaries fought against anybody, just like Saren and the geth. Both were intrigants. This would weaken any resistance before the harvest. When TIM and company would be fully indoctrinated they could aid in the harvest. I've said this all along about TIM. He's been influenced by the Reapers since he implanted himself with Reaper-based technology. Kind of like Saren. Saren was Synthesis, of course. TIM was the illusion of Control, but really Synthesis.
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Oct 3, 2021 3:51:40 GMT
According to Javik there were people like Saren and TIM in his cycle as well. It makes you wonder if Saren and TIM were "planted". TIM and his mercenaries fought against anybody, just like Saren and the geth. Both were intrigants. This would weaken any resistance before the harvest. When TIM and company would be fully indoctrinated they could aid in the harvest. I've said this all along about TIM. He's been influenced by the Reapers since he implanted himself with Reaper-based technology. Kind of like Saren. Saren was Synthesis, of course. TIM was the illusion of Control, but really Synthesis. Wow! I never thought of it that way. Good Job!
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AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 3,159 Likes: 9,167
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Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
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AngryFrozenWater
3,159
August 2016
angryfrozenwater
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Oct 3, 2021 15:35:53 GMT
I've said this all along about TIM. He's been influenced by the Reapers since he implanted himself with Reaper-based technology. Kind of like Saren. Saren was Synthesis, of course. TIM was the illusion of Control, but really Synthesis. Wow! I never thought of it that way. Good Job! Shepard: Sovereign's controlling you through your implants. Don't you see that? Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strength of both, the weakness of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is your destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth.
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
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talyn82
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talyn82
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Talyn82
Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Oct 3, 2021 17:02:07 GMT
Wow! I never thought of it that way. Good Job! Shepard: Sovereign's controlling you through your implants. Don't you see that? Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strength of both, the weakness of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is your destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth. I don't know how I missed those lines when I last completed LE1. But thank you for posting that.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 3, 2021 17:59:18 GMT
Wow! I never thought of it that way. Good Job! Shepard: Sovereign's controlling you through your implants. Don't you see that? Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strength of both, the weakness of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is your destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth. Others should take note that, yes, Sovereign was in the process of pushing forward Synthesis. Make of that what you will.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 3, 2021 21:30:37 GMT
According to Javik there were people like Saren and TIM in his cycle as well. It makes you wonder if Saren and TIM were "planted". TIM and his mercenaries fought against anybody, just like Saren and the geth. Both were intrigants. This would weaken any resistance before the harvest. When TIM and company would be fully indoctrinated they could aid in the harvest. Vigil already talked about that in ME1. When talking about Saren, he mentions something like “Saren may be Sovereign’s most visible pawn, but I doubt he was the first.” Then of course the idea that the Rachni Wars were caused by Sovereign by affecting the Rachni, hence why the last queen wants to help fight them.
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AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 3,159 Likes: 9,167
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Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
1353
0
Sept 26, 2021 14:40:11 GMT
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AngryFrozenWater
3,159
August 2016
angryfrozenwater
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Oct 3, 2021 21:39:12 GMT
According to Javik there were people like Saren and TIM in his cycle as well. It makes you wonder if Saren and TIM were "planted". TIM and his mercenaries fought against anybody, just like Saren and the geth. Both were intrigants. This would weaken any resistance before the harvest. When TIM and company would be fully indoctrinated they could aid in the harvest. Vigil already talked about that in ME1. When talking about Saren, he mentions something like “Saren may be Sovereign’s most visible pawn, but I doubt he was the first.” Then of course the idea that the Rachni Wars were caused by Sovereign by affecting the Rachni, hence why the last queen wants to help fight them. Yeah. You are right. It has been a long time. I need to replay it again to refresh my memory.
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