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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 13, 2021 1:25:27 GMT
No, I believe that synthetics want to live. And if you choose Destroy, they will reach the logical conclusion that organics will destroy them since that's what organics always do. So they'll act not in a sense of dominance but defense. Likewise organics will respond in kind. Leading to a cyclical genocide. This whole argument about dominance you pulled out of thin air. hence my dismissal of it. Oh really? Last I checked it wouldn't be a Reaper that wiped out the Geth or all other synthetic life if Destroy is chosen. A human does that, and add to that all the other organics who did the same like the Council races after the Morning War or at least tried like the Quarians, and it goes far beyond just the Reapers destroying synthetics. Let's do some math: The reapers are around for about 1 billion years. The average time between harvests is about 50,000 years. That means that the reapers have exterminated galactic civilizations about 20,000 times, give or take a few genocides. And you still believe that future synthetics would come to the conclusion that somehow the organics were at fault here. You must really like the reapers, because, like I said, you defy all logic. No. I never said that the synthetics would absolve the Reapers of their acts or think that was organics fault (seriously, stop making shit up that I never said and trying to pin it on my argument). The data I'm saying they'll look at that makes them know they can't trust organics is the list of attempted or successful genocides on synthetics by organics from the races of this cycle, the culmination of which being Shepard committing galactic genocide. In short, they wouldn't trust organics or beings like the Reapers. At most they would only trust other synthetics. ut at least they don't have to worry aout the Reapers since they'd be dead, leaving only organics to worry about.
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AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Dec 13, 2021 1:28:21 GMT
Tsss. Each time I counteract your point, you claim that it has nothing to do with your point. You defy all logic. Your point is simple: You believe that synthetics want to dominate organics, like it is some universal law. Time after time the reapers have proven to be evil and corrupt other synthetics in their quest to exterminate organics. If there is one law then it is that the reapers are evil. There are no known examples of synthetics, who want to dominate organics, unless they were driven to do so by the reapers. In that light the dominance issue is very important. The leviathans thought that they were the apex race and thus believed they were entitled to dominate all other races. Obviously organics fight among themselves, but the leviathans believed that taking out synthetics would be easier in their quest to enslave the galaxy. So in that mindset, which has no empathy, they created an intelligence to make sure that tribute does not flow from a dead race. Obviously that evil mindset was inherited by the Intelligence and the reapers. Both the geth and the zha'til never had such a mindset. It is a myth driven by robophobia. About the trust: You believe that maybe somewhere in the future, when new synthetics are created, the destroy option would cause the synthetics to distrust organics. I cannot look into the future, but I am sure that synthetics are not stupid and they would also see that only the reapers were responsibe for the destruction of other synthetics species. The geth and the zha'til are good examples of that, which is why I brought them up. For future reference, the Geth behavior in the cycle is such that it contradicts what Javik went through, the Protheans took it out on some machines in their cycles but then the Reapers came. The Geth were a variable that evolved beyond the simple Synthetic vs Organics and with the Primes freed, it shows that apperantly they don't need the Reaper code to survive now obviously, the code likely infected those regular programs and Legion was making so many advances with the Reaper code fragments he kept. EDI (if paragon choices are allowed) comes to the conclusion that the Reapers are abominations and should herself be required to be made non functional just to stop the repulsiveness of the Reapers she is willing to do so. That is all the support from one of the often quoted parties of why Destroy is bad, the Geth came at similar conclusions that the Reapers, while technological advanced, weren't Gods and understood that they were mere tools under them: Edit: Javik says: "Even our machines were not this irrational," that represented a deviation. How many others happened and the Catalyst and the Leviathans ignored those or never noticed? Yes. I understand that. Our cycle appears to be unique, because of what we know now. But consider this: AI was outlawed before the reapers came. Now that we know some more facts, we know that the quarians started the Morning War and that the geth were acting in self defense. And we know that the geth who were attacking us were in fact the heretics. Did Javik knew the full extent of why the synthetics acted the way they did in his cycle? Or were the protheans acting in the same fashion as we did towards the geth? He doesn't go into much detail, except here:
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Post by lordmoral on Dec 13, 2021 1:39:26 GMT
For future reference, the Geth behavior in the cycle is such that it contradicts what Javik went through, the Protheans took it out on some machines in their cycles but then the Reapers came. The Geth were a variable that evolved beyond the simple Synthetic vs Organics and with the Primes freed, it shows that apperantly they don't need the Reaper code to survive now obviously, the code likely infected those regular programs and Legion was making so many advances with the Reaper code fragments he kept. EDI (if paragon choices are allowed) comes to the conclusion that the Reapers are abominations and should herself be required to be made non functional just to stop the repulsiveness of the Reapers she is willing to do so. That is all the support from one of the often quoted parties of why Destroy is bad, the Geth came at similar conclusions that the Reapers, while technological advanced, weren't Gods and understood that they were mere tools under them: Edit: Javik says: "Even our machines were not this irrational," that represented a deviation. How many others happened and the Catalyst and the Leviathans ignored those or never noticed? Yes. I understand that. Our cycle appears to be unique, because of what we know now. But consider this: AI was outlawed before the reapers came. Now that we know some more facts, we know that the quarians started the Morning War and that the geth were acting in self defense. And we know that the geth who were attacking us were in fact the heretics. Did Javik knew the full extent of why the synthetics acted the way they did in his cycle? Or were the protheans acting in the same fashion as we did towards the geth? He doesn't go into much detail, except here: So judging by that video the Reapers don't want synthesis developed by others, they want control over the process by the looks of it, even the Protheans gave that race a wide breath. It is such a shame that these type of conversations can't be had in the Normandy between: Legion, Javik EDI, Ashley and Tali. Thanks Bioware/EA for ME3. |
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Post by themikefest on Dec 13, 2021 1:54:06 GMT
Destroy is the way to go. The reapers were never needed. Look at this cycle and previous cycle. Both times organics were defeating the machines, but in comes that reaper interference. They are not the solution. They are the problem.
Both green and blue have the reapers remain. That's a no-go for me. I also believe the green ending was done for comedians to use for their opening act to give the audience a good laugh.
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AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 2,652 Likes: 7,627
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Dec 13, 2021 2:13:55 GMT
Yes. I understand that. Our cycle appears to be unique, because of what we know now. But consider this: AI was outlawed before the reapers came. Now that we know some more facts, we know that the quarians started the Morning War and that the geth were acting in self defense. And we know that the geth who were attacking us were in fact the heretics. Did Javik knew the full extent of why the synthetics acted the way they did in his cycle? Or were the protheans acting in the same fashion as we did towards the geth? He doesn't go into much detail, except here: So judging by that video the Reapers don't want synthesis developed by others, they want control over the process by the looks of it, even the Protheans gave that race a wide breath. It is such a shame that these type of conversations can't be had in the Normandy between: Legion, Javik EDI, Ashley and Tali. Thanks Bioware/EA for ME3. It appears to be that way. I think if a species wants transcendence then I would prefer the way the zha went about it, because I assume there was an opt-in. Syntesis the way the reapers wanted it, offers no opt-in, nor an opt-out. Like the leviathans they wanted absolute control over everything and synthesis would be forced galaxy wide. Going back to what I wrote earlier: In that light the other options don't make sense. Why would the brat transfer control to Shepard when its goals were not met? And why would it want to destroy itself and the reapers? Especially after the comforting words of Sovereign, it doesn't make sense. "We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it." - Sovereign.
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AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 2,652 Likes: 7,627
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Dec 13, 2021 2:28:18 GMT
Another thing that is puzzling is the reach of the beams. Do they cover the entire galaxy or only those locations with an active mass relay? If it is the latter then I have many more questions.  |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 13, 2021 2:42:27 GMT
Another thing that is puzzling is the reach of the beams. Do they cover the entire galaxy or only those locations with an active mass relay? If it is the latter then I have many more questions.  We see in the cutscene that the waves spread across the entire galaxy. So the former.
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