thebobzilla84
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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thebobzilla84
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Post by thebobzilla84 on Jul 12, 2022 9:53:46 GMT
Not in a player choice driven RPG Canon has its place but that’s not here.
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 21, 2022 8:04:06 GMT
For Dragon Age, I almost don't give a damn. Haven't been able to immerse myself properly in the third game for three years now, and every new thing I hear about the fourth just makes me less and less excited. At this point, Inquisition and Dreadwolf each border on goofy AU fanfiction to my mind compared to the previous games. So... do whatever you want with that. It's already very much not what it used to be. For Mass Effect, I care a little bit more. Canonizing anything in particular in order to build a future game on that would be doing the original trilogy a disservice unless it's framed as a spin-off or 'what-if' scenario rather than a serious sequel. But if it is then... I guess, like the new Star Wars, it'll just be there to be enjoyed if you can stomach it and excluded and derided if you can't. Overall I just think I'm through letting greedy, sexist and childish new writers who don't give a damn about anything but virtue signaling and making money on their own little babies dictate how I'm supposed to enjoy or interpret masterpieces I've been loving for years. That it's David Gaider asking makes it feel a bit more likely that it's in the interest of actually continuing to build on the story. But it's been quite a while since anything well-written came out just because he was involved.
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cailan33
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Post by cailan33 on Aug 22, 2022 23:28:11 GMT
hm i am surprised most voted for "not if the story was cool" cause cool is pretty subjective.
right out of my head i personally just hope that at least these won't be canon:
- leliana being hardned - morrigan sleeping with alistair and especially loghain (just no) - bethany dead (she was too cute sorry) - not helping isabella - nathaniel not being a grey warden witout letting him redeem his families guilt - not helping sten and letting him being hardned
still not a fan of what they did with velanna and especially anders/justice...
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Post by Ieldra on Aug 23, 2022 6:16:20 GMT
Depends.
Discontinuity is OK if you're writing stories featuring the same characters in the same fictional world, but which do not necessarily build on each other. Like, say, Robert E Howard's "Conan" stories, which are often even hard to place in the timeline of their world, unless that is explicitly pointed out by someone.
It's generally not OK if you're writing a multi-part story that coalesces into a whole. In that case, it would be preferable for me to have fewer choices available in the first place that would necessarily affect the sequel, compared to having choices and having them turned about or nullified in the sequel. Also, the choices supposedly affecting the major plot are most important here, so better think long and hard before implementing a choice that changes the world in a work that might have a sequel. I don't need such a choice, but if there is one, I absolutely expect a consistent follow-up.
Mass Effect is a good example for either scenario. MEA is set far along enough in time to be counted as separate, and not part of the trilogy's continuity. So a canonized trilogy ending would have been fine there. Meanwhile, the discontinuities between the parts of the trilogy were jarring.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Aug 23, 2022 23:01:24 GMT
I'll go with "not if the story is cool". A well written story and characters with a canon path ensure progress / development.
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Post by q5tyhj on Aug 31, 2022 20:42:23 GMT
mentioning Dragon Age in this question has to be a red herring, right? I feel like he's really asking about Mass Effect but just threw DA in there to make it slightly less obvious. I don't think there's any decision in the DA games that is even half so controversial as the ME3 endings, or that would be especially relevant to a future sequel.
But no, I wouldn't have a major problem with them canonizing an ME3 ending in order to make a sequel. Its been 10 years, I'm sort of over the ME3 endings at this point- I just want to see quarians and vorcha and drell (and everything else that was left out of ME:A) again.
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Post by General Mahad on Sept 4, 2022 16:00:51 GMT
BioWare’s problem is they have to keep track of so many plot threads that it’s become a hindrance to their characters, story and even universe.
Pick a canon decision and stick to it.
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cuthbertbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 4, 2022 20:28:01 GMT
BioWare’s problem is they have to keep track of so many plot threads that it’s become a hindrance to their characters, story and even universe. Pick a canon decision and stick to it. And why should they do this then they already create DA 4 with an isolated & war-torn place like Tevinter and also a long time gap in mind?
For ME Next i also could see a huge time gap. So no big deal besides maybe the ME 3 endings.
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Post by NotN7 on Sept 4, 2022 21:20:51 GMT
mentioning Dragon Age in this question has to be a red herring, right? I feel like he's really asking about Mass Effect but just threw DA in there to make it slightly less obvious. I don't think there's any decision in the DA games that is even half so controversial as the ME3 endings, or that would be especially relevant to a future sequel. But no, I wouldn't have a major problem with them canonizing an ME3 ending in order to make a sequel. Its been 10 years, I'm sort of over the ME3 endings at this point- I just want to see quarians and vorcha and drell (and everything else that was left out of ME:A) again. I agree from what I have seen Playing DA there is nothing that's needs to be cannon? Me3 well yes they screwed up the ending so there will need to be a cannon ending SOoooooooo, Bioware suck it up and do what you have to do to continue Me serries. I won't judge stuff happens BUT! learn from it.
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Remmirath
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Remmirath
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Post by Remmirath on Sept 5, 2022 0:41:53 GMT
I would be upset, and I'd rather have fewer choices than a greater possibility of one or more of them becoming canon.
Of course, it's already happened, to some extent. I can certainly deal with it. But I'd rather not. Part of the continuing appeal of DA for me is carrying the choices the last character made forward. I do realize that all the choices are probably becoming something of a nightmare to work with, but I'd prefer to just not see the impact due to being farther removed from the things that happened rather than have something decided as canon.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on Nov 13, 2022 2:48:22 GMT
I'd be bothered because at the very least, I don't think there's a single (major?) story choice in any ME/DA game that I don't think Bioware can weave around to acknowledging. It'd be their deliberate choice to canonize it and ignore the past. I know they can and will often *functionally* and *practically* ignore the past, but literally doing it is their optional choice that they really really don't need to make.
For DA worldstates, I'd prefer some wacky imagination if need be. I actually love the Leliana lyrium silliness as long as the writers have it on some level of priority to address it in a cool way later. For ME3 endings, I'd prefer that if there can't be more substantial consequences, a sequel-game that must default to a path (say, Destroy), sets it up in a way that other paths very well happened as well, but it all led to this one-path-but-hybrid outcome, acknowledging your choice in the little ways that budget allows.
I just don't think its impossible to recognize any choice. They're all things we do that had outcomes. Bioware can calibrate what those outcomes are and how respectful they are to our agency, but they can always do *something* at *some point*, even a point they can't even forsee today but could be an amazing experience many years from now.
And with the time gaps between games in the timelines, there's really no excuse to at least minimize the effect of choices while acknowledging their existence and allowing these choices to potentially mean bigger things later on. To me, there's little reason to turn it into *nothing*, even if there can often be reasons to make it just a little slightly-adjustable-text-blurb for now.
If Bioware wants, say, a wrecked and rebuilding post-ME3 galaxy, I'd prefer that rather than canonize Destroy and nothing more, that instead there's a sort of mystery of what's exactly happened in a time period since, that has resulted in a largely-Destroy-like result but also includes elements of Control and Synthesis and takes nods to what may have happened since those endings as well - it just happens that Bioware needs to tell a story of a 'wrecked and rebuilding post-ME3 galaxy' more than explicitly 'post-Destroy'. The former allows much more storytelling opportunities anyway; if you chose Control, maybe there's little adjustments to choices now that wouldn't be there if you chose Destroy. The overall narrative has its core that rarely get swayed, but there's acknowledgement that you wanted some sort of outcome from your Control choice. You may not get all you want, but the writers get tested to explore what they can do that reflects what you wanted.
I don't love everything Trespasser did about unifying several major choices in DAI. I get it, but I don't love it. But they still personal-canonized (recognized) the DAI choices. Recognizing, allows future opportunities that de-canonizing does not, or at least doesn't do as easily and comfortably. I know there's a general route they want several major characters, factions like the Chantry and Circles, and events to go. Okay! But it is nice if writers and designers are put into the place where they should explore what our choices mean for these things, and ideally, split some effects off into very different feeling experiences. They can't do everything. They may have to ignore a thing for a while. But its nice to know we made a choice, and it did things in a certain way. I think a more conservative (while reforming) Chantry has the opportunity to have certain outcomes happen, while a reforming (while still conservative) Chantry can do the same. Why make it all the same by a default? Let us have the fun. That fun doesn't have to be immediately mindblowing, super expensive, or a whole other quest path. The fun can be in the nuances of conversation, or the aesthetics of an area, or the political tones in a storyline, or it can even be almost nothing at all, until a future game that cares more about it.
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officerdonnz
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The Fat Controller
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by officerdonnz on Nov 13, 2022 7:16:12 GMT
This kind of reminds me about that when you play SWTOR canon wise Reven was male end of story and though I don't ever recall it being mentioned that the Jedi Exile was female. Never mind the fact that Revan and the Jedi Exile could be either gender in the KotOR games.
I don't much care at this point personally as I just can't get enthusiastic about DA anymore.
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