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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ByonicClown
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Post by Tittus on Apr 19, 2022 5:19:15 GMT
Depends on the scope of the choices. ME3 choices involve all the galaxy and important races. It's impossible to make a sequel without defining canon choices. I'd prefer to bury Milk Way altogether and stay in Andromeda. As for DA4, we're to another country and the studio doesn't have to spend that many resources to adapt each choice. I don't see this as a good analogy. Mass Effect is galactic. Now intergalactic. The DA Setting happens on how many planets? A country is more different than a planet in a different star cluster? <Morpheus bemusement> The consequences of the choices affect one region, so if the franchises move away from their respective regions, they don't have to deal with those consequences.
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Apr 19, 2022 6:48:04 GMT
No, I wouldn't be upset. I realize that implementing decisions from a previous game into its sequel can be quite costly if it's not limited to dialog lines and/or codex entries... and it might be better for the overall experience if those resources were spent on the new main storyline and such.
Also, being potentially cranky over a game's story progression ten years later... I wish all my problems were like that.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 19, 2022 8:04:04 GMT
My initial reaction is that if it is a completely new story set in a different time frame then it would be okay. So for Mass Effect, if they had chosen, say, synthesis then that would be the norm for that era and they could even account for the other choices by implying that, just as the catalyst suggested, the cycle would always end up with synthetics and organics at war, so eventually someone would have agreed the solution was to merge them together.
With Dragon Age it is difficult to say without knowing the world state that was going to be canonised. In some ways, if the decision is big enough that it is world changing, like tearing down the Veil or not, then it is hard to see how the actual decision is something that can be subject to player choice because it has such an impact on the nature of the world going forward. Essentially, as with the example I gave for Mass Effect, if they decided the world state was without the Veil, then there would have to be some fudge explanation to account for the choice by the player not to remove it. Otherwise, if they know that is the outcome they would prefer, just don't give the player the choice in the first place. Multiple endings should really only apply to self contained stories where future installments are not planned set in the same world that is impacted by that decision or the next story is far enough in the future that anomalies can be accounted for.
Up to now our decisions haven't really be world changing. Whether or not we chose to do the dark ritual with Morrigan could have been significant but they seemed to have minimised its impact with the events involving him in DAI. The decision at the end of Trespasser was implied to be important but it is clear from the comics and novels that the decision whether to disband the Inquisition or not has been largely irrelevant to its ongoing presence and involvement in plots going forward. Also, the story involving Solas did seem to assume a world state where he and the Inquisitor were on good terms. Otherwise, why would he continue to apologise for his actions to an Inquisitor where there was mutual emnity?
It is curious that DG should be asking this as though opting for a canon choice is not something that has been done in the past, particularly with regard to the associated comics and books. In DG's comic series Alistair is King of Ferelden, Sten is Arishok and on good terms with him (so presumably freed by the HoF). In Asunder Wynne is alive, also Shale and of course Leliana (although her survival had already been established in DA2 and it took to the end of Trespasser to explain why). In the latest comic books Fenris survived but no longer with Hawke or even with good memories of his friends in Kirkwall. I've already mentioned how the decision about whether to disband the Inquisition or not has proven largely irrelevant in associated media.
What I will say is that DG claimed the story in DAI was only half told and that it would be down to his successor, PW, to complete it. Assuming the team has stuck to the original plan for the story, and they could easily have changed direction since he left, DG knows how it was meant to have ended. May be the player will be asked to make a world changing decision as huge as the one at the end of ME3. I'm mindful of the words of Morrigan at the end of the original DAI trailer in 2013: "Will you stand against the darkness or lead this world to its bitter end?" That could mean that ultimately the decision whether or not to remove the Veil is going to be down to us.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 19, 2022 8:05:12 GMT
I wonder why he asks this. Anyway, I dont care much about DA. I can only say I wouldnt want to play a protag's 3rd life and that is about ME.Can I play future ME without Shepard? Maybe, we were all excited about MEA but it didnt capture the spark. Maybe sometimes it's just better to have a finish line to stories.
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Post by fylimar on Apr 19, 2022 8:31:44 GMT
There are things, I could live with and things, I would hate. The worst example is Revan from the KOTOR games. Revan is a black female, totally light side and sane in my games and in SWTOR and the novels we get a white, totally unhinged male. Don't mess with my player characters. I guess the same is true for bloodmage Hawkes and DAI. I can live with some decisions that are made canon, but it never should affect my character.
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Post by fairdragon on Apr 19, 2022 10:38:48 GMT
I have no problem with that, but it depends on how it is served to me. Leliana history was brought across clumsily, if at all (and that makes me sad). If they had tied the whole thing better into DA2 story-wise, the idea of the spirit would have been very cool.(But it looks like they don't care.) You just have to approach it cleverly, then I think it would work.
I love choices and i find it better if they have consequence. But I also play games without choices and I'm very happy with it.
What really matters is the story! and there we have the victory of dragon age origins. It caters the desires of multiple groups of players through the Choices.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 19, 2022 11:29:14 GMT
Choices? Who cares? Leliana can die in DAO, but shows up in DA2/DAI. No big deal. I'm sure there are others.
Would I have a problem with the choices Bioware uses for the next DA game? Probably not.
On the old forum, Mike Gamble tweeted we respect players choice when asked about the ME3 ending. That tweet was incorrect. The guy telling the story to the kid changed the story when the cut was released. He also said the details have changed over time. He can change the story again. I doubt his story told to the kid is the same as the story told to him. The teaser suggests Bioware already has made a couple of choices canon. Dead reapers are shown suggesting red is the ending. Showing t'soni who can die in ME3.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Apr 19, 2022 12:11:41 GMT
Really would be better for MENext if the timeskip was there and whatever ending of ME trilogy was, was hundreds of years ago. It can be mentioned in some side conversation but IMHO would be better just to go forward again. New team etc.
I would not be upset, I just want more gaming in DA and ME universe.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 19, 2022 12:23:34 GMT
There are things, I could live with and things, I would hate. The worst example is Revan from the KOTOR games. Revan is a black female, totally light side and sane in my games and in SWTOR and the novels we get a white, totally unhinged male. Don't mess with my player characters. I guess the same is true for bloodmage Hawkes and DAI. I can live with some decisions that are made canon, but it never should affect my character. It is totally fucked up in licensed franchises. Many people narrating the same story at their own take doesnt play out. In the end Bioware is the narrator. In how the player's immersion to the protag breaks authorship is hard to say but if you live, enjoy and suffer wth the protag while commanding their actions you take a bit authorship.
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Post by wickedcool on Apr 19, 2022 14:04:53 GMT
I’d be ok with it. I remember the varric rumors and whirring I’d have to replay da2. We have this in the tapestry so I hope it continues
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This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
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Post by Norstaera on Apr 19, 2022 14:50:30 GMT
I don't have a canon pt among the dozens I've played. There are choices I make more often than others, but no canon Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor.
Do I want to be able to import a world-state and have my choices respected? Yes. That said, if in the interests of a better story some of those choices are either nullified or set in concrete, I'm okay with that. Especially if those instances are kept to a minimum AND there's a good/logical reason. Be nice if there was some codex entry explaining how they got there. For instance, say Bioware wants Leliana to be Divine. If your choice was different, then explain how she got there. Maybe Cassandra stepped down, realizing she was not the best suited for the job. Or there were too many assassination attempts against Vivienne, resulting in many deaths of other Chantry members as collateral damage. At least acknowledge our choices via some sort of logical story telling.
Otherwise, the Warden lives? He's off somewhere on a special project in DAI. His relationship with his companions colors DAI via dialog or codex/epilogs. The same can be said for other choices. Works for me. One choice that didn't matter in DAI, and I wish it had, was siding with either the mages or the templars in DA2. Seems to me that could have at least flavored the Hinterlands more as well as the dialog surrounding whose help you were seeking to seal the Breach.
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 19, 2022 19:27:26 GMT
In my mind, if I'm given a choice in a video game, I would like that choice respected. I don't necessarily need to see the impact of that choice from game to game, but I don't want my personal canon to be invalidated. If it's too difficult to respect these choices, then stop including them.
The one exception to this rule is if I made a bad choice for yucks and it led to, say, the suicide mission failing at the end of ME2, or the destruction of the entire world. Obviously those kind of choices can't be facilitated in a sequel.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 20, 2022 13:59:55 GMT
Curious why he’s even asking, since he no longer works for BioWare. Probably just being a jerk, trying to stir up fears he knows people have with this subject. Well, this is the creator of Morrigan and Shale after all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2022 15:28:52 GMT
There are things, I could live with and things, I would hate. The worst example is Revan from the KOTOR games. Revan is a black female, totally light side and sane in my games and in SWTOR and the novels we get a white, totally unhinged male. Don't mess with my player characters. I guess the same is true for bloodmage Hawkes and DAI. I can live with some decisions that are made canon, but it never should affect my character. It is totally fucked up in licensed franchises. Many people narrating the same story at their own take doesnt play out. In the end Bioware is the narrator. In how the player's immersion to the protag breaks authorship is hard to say but if you live, enjoy and suffer wth the protag while commanding their actions you take a bit authorship. This post made me ask this question. Is the reason DG is asking this, is because his company wants to license one of those franchises and has a super-secret deal in the works and is being sneaky? X to Doubt. But, it would conveniently explain the why of this question.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 20, 2022 17:16:58 GMT
I can sort of tolerate the minor canonizations on the fringe but very anti anything major. I hope dragon age never make the sort of bad decisions that left mass effect in its horrible quagmire of having to decide on the scale of the canonization rather than whether to or not.
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theascendent
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Apr 20, 2022 17:40:16 GMT
The Mass Effect trilogy was ultimately the story of Commander Shepard and the Reapers. Any future game in that setting would need to take into account the players choices. Dragon Age is the story of Thedas, with each playable character having their time in the sun to enjoy the setting and contribute to the overall story. If a certain decision must be taken away from the players so certain continuity is maintained (notable example, Cullen will always be in Kirkwall no matter what happened in Ferelden) so that the overall status of the world makes sense. That is fine with me.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Apr 21, 2022 1:50:49 GMT
It is totally fucked up in licensed franchises. Many people narrating the same story at their own take doesnt play out. In the end Bioware is the narrator. In how the player's immersion to the protag breaks authorship is hard to say but if you live, enjoy and suffer wth the protag while commanding their actions you take a bit authorship. This post made me ask this question. Is the reason DG is asking this, is because his company wants to license one of those franchises and has a super-secret deal in the works and is being sneaky? X to Doubt. But, it would conveniently explain the why of this question. The game summerfall studios is working on and which is being published by humble, Stray Gods: The Role-playing Musical, involves choices and dialogue trees (or rather lyric trees). So he's probably asking because he's writing that.
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Post by Fredward on Apr 21, 2022 7:08:43 GMT
Depends on the scale of the choice for me. Don't give me the opportunity, say, to decide whether the Veil is up or down at the end of DA4 if you're gonna override the choice in subsequent games anyway. But if you needed Bull to betray the Inquisitor for some reason then I guess I could forgive you? I have a habit of changing playthrough choices via the Keep if they lead to more content or angsty outcomes anyway. Like for example, if it turns out whoever we left in the Fade actually gets superpowers or becomes some kind of Fade entity then I'm not letting Stroud have it I can tell you that much lol.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 21, 2022 13:57:59 GMT
Don't care about retcons and forced canon if the result is a good story. Never cared for Leliana in DAO, found her interesting in DAI, so I'm glad they brought her back. I wish Morrigan's kid could have played a bigger role. Such a waste. Shouldn't have made it a player choice. Bad call.
Too many choices cripple the freedom of future narratives. As much as I like all the little details in BioWare games that can change, or even bigger choices, I'm fine with fewer of them in favor of a great story.
While I hope they pick destroy for the next Mass Effect game, I'd play green or blue too. I really don't care. I never expected there to be another Mass Effect game after THAT ending however. And I was fine with that. I love wildly different outcomes at the end of a game or franchise for replay value. Trying to keep going after that to make more money is stupid. So tough luck, BioWare. If you want a post reaper war game you have to pick a canon. I doubt too many fans would mind. So they might as well do it, I guess.
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cuthbertbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 21, 2022 16:16:41 GMT
The more i think about it the more i doubt that retcons in DA 4 would be a big deal. Sure maybe there are some from DAO, DAA or DA 2 but to DAIs credit it plays pretty safe regarding its main characters. Only Hissrad is dead and i doubt that they bring him any major form back beside some cameo. Blackwall / Thom Rainier should be dead if hanged like Nathaniel before if this option was chosen but again we haven´t seen him die onscreen. But to be fair i really doubt that they do much more with Blackwall. His story is done and he isn´t that beloved. The only DAI fates which i don´t mind to be retconned would be Ser Barris and maybe Servis.
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Apr 21, 2022 18:41:52 GMT
The question only makes sense at the start of a franchise. After the marketing promised time after time that decisions are carried over to next titles, the question becomes irrelevant.
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Post by smudjygirl on Apr 23, 2022 23:06:37 GMT
I generally don't care much so long as the game I'm playing lets me enjoy my choices having an effect. That being said if they made a companion death canon, or if the choice put in a character I don't like in power (Harrowmont...)I might be sore about it for half a second before getting over myself. So long as the choice doesn't completely obliterate my previous choices I don't care. Like, it didn't matter to me about Leliana coming back. I just find her to be kind of dry as a character.
Right now I can't think of a particular choice that would upset me, save maybe my Warden Queen being kicked off the throne in favour of Anora., but even that is one or two worlds in a million at this point They already tend to nerf some of the stories/choices I get emotionally invested in (Hawke not doing much in the Mage/Templar war, for example. The choice at the end of Trespasser won't directly feature either knowing what we know about the series) I kind of expect it in Dragon Age to a certain extent
I guess I will play Dragon Age regardless so even if I don't like it at first, I will eventually,
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is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 24, 2022 0:05:28 GMT
I'm all for it. Devs don't have insight into the future and don't know how certain decisions they've made will pan out. Some choices they've presented to players may end up being more difficult to implement than they presumed, sometimes it doesn't fit in with the story of future games, and so on and so forth. Personally, I've always thought the ability to carry over decisions you've made in one game to carry on into future games was a cute feature at best, but not one necessary to my enjoyment of a game. The way people frothed at the mouth regarding Leliana, for example, has always come across as peak weirdo behavior to me, sorry, especially since there was a reasonable enough explanation the devs could concoct for bringing her back. For me, I'd rather the devs trample over players' individual canon to create a coherent, tightly woven story for the whole. Ideally, they'd try and preserve as many choices as they could, but I think they should do whatever to create a good story even if it means canceling all carryover decisions.
I pretty much agree with you, to me personally the player choice is a nice gimmick but too me for both Dragon Age and Mass Effect both series has it's impossible to keep track and account for all the decisions, outcomes, choices and consequences that players have made over the games, expansions, and DLC that these game franchises have plus all the other media like novels, comics, anime movies, live action web series, and so on that is often considered "canonical" and what you have is a giant mess, you can't even get DAO and it's expansion and DLC to connect to the DA severs anymore (at least on XB1) so my decisions that I import into DAI are based on a website that is more like a pain in the ass mini game and doesn't do a great job of explaining some the more complex relationships and conflicts throughout the series. It's OK but the time is coming for something like 30 year time jump or canon that BioWare can use to tell stories without tripping over who became Divine Victoria or what was the fate of Inquisition, or in Mass Effect how did Shepard save the Milky Way Galaxy, etc.
I see more value in a direct sequel to MEA than a direct sequel to ME3.
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Post by Gwydden on Apr 24, 2022 15:38:10 GMT
I wouldn't mind. In practice, carrying choices between games means that none of them is bound to matter much. And each game should be able to stand on its own. I could see an argument for importing saves in a series like the Mass Effect trilogy, where you play the same character for three games. Not so much for something like Dragon Age, where each game has a new protagonist and, for the most part, a new setting and plot.
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Felya87
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Felya87 on Apr 25, 2022 14:17:57 GMT
I'd have little problems with "in world choices". A king choosen by my Warden, for example, could die and their place being taken by someone else with a completely different political view, a group my Inquisitor dismantled could be rebuild by a new group in power, or a temple my character didn't discover/closed off could be open by a group of adventurers/archeologists later. The world would continue even without my character input, so, as long as it is given an aknowledge of my previous choice, I'm fine with a previous decision being redacted. But if is going to touch my character personal journey, I'm not not ok. I never liked Hawke, so I had little problem with them in DAI, but if my Warden was put in that place, with a preimposted personality/view on stuff, I would have been very annoyed. I was much more happy with how the Warden was handled in DAI: not seen, old companions/lovers talking about them, and with the intention to reunite when the adventure was over.
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