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Post by burningcherry on May 31, 2022 17:22:54 GMT
This was figured out while repairing Kalence. The way this functionality was supposed to work was: – taking the enemy's base (Bronze) damage value – multiplying it by the difficulty damage modifier (1.25/1.9/2.5/3 B/S/G/P) As it turns out, it's bugged because instead of being multiplied, the damage to return is divided by the modifier. The 5B (+150% damage returned) evolution works fine. Summary of damage return percentages:
| Without 5B | With 5B | | Bronze | 64% | 160% | | Silver | 28% | 69% | | Gold | 16% | 40% | | Platinum | 11% | 28% |
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Ash
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I've quit MEMP. https://youtu.be/ihv3obuGfm4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Capta1nAsh / N7_Ash
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Post by Ash on Jun 1, 2022 1:32:31 GMT
Since you’re crunching numbers. Do any power amps effect blade armour? You know, with it technically being a damage dealing power
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Post by BlackMage on Jun 1, 2022 2:10:05 GMT
Taking the first number 64%, 100% / 1.25 should be 80%?
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Post by burningcherry on Jun 1, 2022 10:18:12 GMT
Since you’re crunching numbers. Do any power amps effect blade armour? You know, with it technically being a damage dealing power According to the code Scab has found, no. Not even your DR matters, only the enemy's base damage, the 5B evolution and the difficulty level. Taking the first number 64%, 100% / 1.25 should be 80%? 100% / 1.25^2 = 64%. It's 80% of the base value and 64% of the real value.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: DoctorDAM, DAMReapers, NSquat
XBL Gamertag: DoctorDAM
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Post by DoctorDAM on Jun 1, 2022 23:45:26 GMT
First, thanks for all the updates to Kalence builder!
And interesting to know that technically it isn't 5b "Damage Returned" bonus that is bugged, but the more general Blade Armor damage returned mechanic on the whole. Though the end result is more or less the same.
But is it really a bug, i.e. what was original intent (not that I would be surprised that it is bugged)? How do powers generally scale with difficulty? And how does enemy melee dmg scale? I'm guessing enemy melee dmg increases with difficulty similar to their other attacks. If so, a fixed (not scaled) damage returned would still have returned more dmg. That is, if enemy Gold melee dmg goes up 2.5x, a fixed 100% dmg returned would also do 2.5x dmg.
And if they wanted to keep it at same absolute dmg (more like fixed gun dmg, unlike power scaling dmg), they would have just divided it ONCE by the scalar. But scalar^2 makes no sense to me. Unless they deliberately wanted to make it weaker (but that doesn't align with any other power scaling).
And what's the deal with Bronze being 1.25x? Why isn't it 1x? Was that a MP balance change made early on to make the game more difficult? So "base" isn't actually used anywhere (well, except in the code)?
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Post by Alfonsedode on Jun 2, 2022 7:49:37 GMT
This was figured out while repairing Kalence. The way this functionality was supposed to work was: – taking the enemy's base (Bronze) damage value – multiplying it by the difficulty damage modifier (1.25/1.9/2.5/3 B/S/G/P) As it turns out, it's bugged because instead of being multiplied, the damage to return is divided by the modifier. The 5B (+150% damage returned) evolution works fine. Summary of damage return percentages:
| Without 5B | With 5B | | Bronze | 64% | 160% | | Silver | 28% | 69% | | Gold | 16% | 40% | | Platinum | 11% | 28% |
looooooooooooooooooooooool
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Post by Alfonsedode on Jun 2, 2022 8:00:31 GMT
100% / 1.25^2 = 64%. It's 80% of the base value and 64% of the real value. base balue is the base damage value dealt by the enemy unit ? and real value is with the out of cover penalty ? Yes, ok, please add it to your table (that it s base on real damage value) ?  Also i m rusty, the base damage value isnt supposed to be the damage value dealt (in cover) by the unit on bronze ? there a 1.25 bronze multiplier ?
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Post by burningcherry on Jun 2, 2022 15:26:19 GMT
@ DoctorDAM Alfonsedode : Strangely, there is a x1.25 modifier even for Bronze. The game takes the "base" values and multiplies them by difficulty modifiers. The Blade Armor probably wanted to avoid diminishing the return value by the player's damage reduction, so instead of taking the real damage dealt, it tries to reproduce what it would be without the player DR, only making an error at this step. So why there is "^2": real damage = base damage * diff modifier return damage = base return percentage * base damage / diff modifier real return percentage = return damage / real damage = base return percentage / (diff modifier)^2 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2022 0:01:27 GMT
I had several BA kills on Scions, of all things, with my BatGuard yesterday. A few Captains too, and maybe others.
I was picked up several times (Preggers and Scion), and never synced. This may have been team DPS more than BA, but it was notable. 150% returned evo was mandatory in my memory, if you were going to take BA.
It's a damn shame these things are hardcoded in the exe. This seems like it would be a really simple hex edit, if we knew the location.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Jun 13, 2022 7:47:46 GMT
I had several BA kills on Scions, of all things, with my BatGuard yesterday. A few Captains too, and maybe others. I was picked up several times (Preggers and Scion), and never synced. This may have been team DPS more than BA, but it was notable. 150% returned evo was mandatory in my memory, if you were going to take BA. It's a damn shame these things are hardcoded in the exe. This seems like it would be a really simple hex edit, if we knew the location. LOLbronze then ? ;p
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2022 18:14:38 GMT
I had several BA kills on Scions, of all things, with my BatGuard yesterday. A few Captains too, and maybe others. I was picked up several times (Preggers and Scion), and never synced. This may have been team DPS more than BA, but it was notable. 150% returned evo was mandatory in my memory, if you were going to take BA. It's a damn shame these things are hardcoded in the exe. This seems like it would be a really simple hex edit, if we knew the location. LOLbronze then ? ;p Naw, Gold PuG. Had a BatSent hosting, so for racial Jimming I chose another Bat. Legit saw Blade Armor in my kill feed more often than expected. How dare you... I haven't played Bronze in public in probably 8 years. Bronze is for soloing to finish a challenge. Oh... you were commenting on my skill level, attacking my pride? A jedi craves not these things. 1v1 me babby, I will destroy you! |
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Post by Alfonsedode on Jun 17, 2022 10:58:49 GMT
yes lets 1v1 !!
(BA does more damage on bronze, almost no damage on gold as far as i understood)
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Post by burningcherry on Jun 20, 2022 0:51:48 GMT
I had several BA kills on Scions, of all things, with my BatGuard yesterday. A few Captains too, and maybe others. I was picked up several times (Preggers and Scion), and never synced. This may have been team DPS more than BA, but it was notable. 150% returned evo was mandatory in my memory, if you were going to take BA. It's a damn shame these things are hardcoded in the exe. This seems like it would be a really simple hex edit, if we knew the location. The new Legendary Explorer actually allows to read a source code (no idea how they achieved that). This is also how we got the incendiary ammo self-stacking explained.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 17:20:25 GMT
I had several BA kills on Scions, of all things, with my BatGuard yesterday. A few Captains too, and maybe others. I was picked up several times (Preggers and Scion), and never synced. This may have been team DPS more than BA, but it was notable. 150% returned evo was mandatory in my memory, if you were going to take BA. It's a damn shame these things are hardcoded in the exe. This seems like it would be a really simple hex edit, if we knew the location. The new Legendary Explorer actually allows to read a source code (no idea how they achieved that). This is also how we got the incendiary ammo self-stacking explained. Interesting. So, theory time - We have access to source code. That would indicate a decompiler has been made. If a decompiler has been made, it is logical to assume a compiler has also been made or is being worked on. We need the hex value of a fixed BA code, which could be obtained from the compiler and then checking out the result. Fuzzy a little there, and I have very rarely edited game .exe so experience level is low. If we have the hex value of a fixed portion of code, we would then need the value of the broken code as well... so that we could search the me3.exe for that value and replace with new value from our fixed code. Rinse and repeat for all the broken things, Shockwave first on the list. ... Then, we get DMCA'd by BioWare for fixing their game, but Eric Fagnan sends us new balance changes anyway because Lord Fagnan. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 17:54:51 GMT
yes lets 1v1 !! (BA does more damage on bronze, almost no damage on gold as far as i understood) Name host - should be equally painful for both of us. Weapons and kits, location - Pistols at dawn? Thunderdome? I have never Thunderdumbed. But we can find out which one of us is Thunderdumber  ... Regarding my BA post, you make a fine point, and also ignore the obvious. Almost =/= None Almost none > None BA does sufficient damage to kill on all difficulties. You have to constantly put yourself in situations where it staggers enemies. Which means you are in melee range all day and doing lots of melee, not all heavy. It is a risky way to play BatGuard off-host, but it was mostly successful and I did indeed see BA in the killfeed quite a bit. Including against Brutes, as I think I mentioned? IAMZAE!!!!!! |
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Post by almurat89 on Jun 20, 2022 22:04:23 GMT
That would be really nice to see some kind of "unofficial community patch".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2022 0:27:53 GMT
That would be really nice to see some kind of "unofficial community patch". My skills have always been limited to scripting in "near"-human language, like kotorscript/biowarescript/cdprscript. I understand simple algorithm, I understand how game calls are made by in-engine/LUA script to cause animations to happen, dialog options to appear, triggers for game events etc. This means I am a decent hobbyist programmer. Learned from Applesoft Basic and dBase3. This means I can follow and comprehend English pretty well, am not a complete moron, and also cannot at all understand assembly or anything in the hex world that doesn't have a pretty close in-English comment I can read on the side. And if I can see and read that, I still will need to trial-n-ERROR a LOT to get anything positive happening. So, engine level coding is simply beyond me, happy and unashamed to admit. However, so many people are much better at that, and many other things, than me. I wish for this and would be glad to offer any assistance to modder friends that are members here (I have donated the monies to some of you, because I am cool like that. Small monies, because I am not rich like that) A Community ME3MP Patch would be a creamy GIF moment for me, and also a lot of fun to play afterwards. Even if I did nothing but talk about it. |
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