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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 24, 2024 17:15:51 GMT
The girl is literally covered in v's and triangles. I just hope it isn't going to be a repeat of Solas, so this is something I really want to ask her but it never gets brought up in conversation despite being glaringly obvious. It is the one thing that makes me wary as well, although that might not have been such an issue if they hadn't introduced the triangle as a sign of the Executors in DAI. However, the fact they did means it is something that my PC may have heard about, so it isn't just meta knowledge that I have as a player.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Jul 24, 2024 17:18:18 GMT
The girl is literally covered in v's and triangles. I just hope it isn't going to be a repeat of Solas, so this is something I really want to ask her but it never gets brought up in conversation despite being glaringly obvious. It is the one thing that makes me wary as well, although that might not have been such an issue if they hadn't introduced the triangle as a sign of the Executors in DAI. However, the fact they did means it is something that my PC may have heard about, so it isn't just meta knowledge that I have as a player. "Solas, why do you wear that wolf jawbone around your neck? Does it hold some particular significance to you?"
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Post by illuminated11 on Jul 24, 2024 17:23:34 GMT
To take a slightly different angle (hehe), a triangle has three points. Three is a common pattern in oral tradition, especially folk tales, because it's easier to remember. Maybe there's something more whimsical to those pouches, like Dalish oral stories written down and stored in each one.
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Post by fistoffiori on Jul 24, 2024 17:33:37 GMT
Be-lla-ra Lu-ta-ra
Even her names have 3 syllables each!
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Post by celestielf on Jul 24, 2024 17:42:32 GMT
I definitely think the Veil Jumpers have something to do with the Executors, but I also think the Veil Jumpers might not be aware of it. From what little we've seen of the Executors, they're incredibly secretive.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 24, 2024 17:53:21 GMT
I definitely think the Veil Jumpers have something to do with the Executors, but I also think the Veil Jumpers might not be aware of it. From what little we've seen of the Executors, they're incredibly secretive. Yes, people like Bellara and a Veil Jumper Rook are likely just innocents caught up in their schemes without knowing it. The one I've always been most suspicious of is Strife. I didn't buy his tale of being a city elf from Starkhaven in Tevinter Nights and was even more suspicious after the short story Ruins of Reality. He could well be one of their more visible agents passing himself off as an ordinary elf. One thing we know for certain is that they were opposed to the Wolf and Solas thinks them dangerous enough to silence their agent before they could reveal anything useful to Charter. It will certainly be interesting to see how Solas views the Veil Jumpers. Of course, it could turn out that both the Executors and Solas have been using them for their own ends.
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Post by Reznore on Jul 24, 2024 18:12:51 GMT
So no one thinks she could be an ancient elves badly cosplaying a Dalish? Her gauntlett is ancient elven magic and it's designed with triangle all over. She has a big hairdo, ancient elves like having big stuff on their head for whatever reason. Her valasslin are unknown.
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Post by illuminated11 on Jul 24, 2024 18:27:27 GMT
It's possible. I honestly hope we don't have yet another elf hiding their true identity though. If the Executors have infiltrated the Veil Jumpers somehow, I'd much rather another character be the main point of contact. Like Strife, as gervaise mentioned.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 24, 2024 19:26:36 GMT
So no one thinks she could be an ancient elves badly cosplaying a Dalish? From what we have seen of them, they tend to cosplay the Dalish rather well. Then any differences they just put down to the clans "growing apart over time", which the majority of inhabitants who aren't Dalish have no reason to question. Even those who are familiar with Dalish customs are just meant to accept that as true. My Lavellan was constantly being informed that their clan was just different when I objected to certain assertions being made. Now I seem to recall the Game Informer article said something about exploring the variants in culture now we are in a different part of Thedas, including the different vallaslin. Of course, that contradicts the whole premise of the Dalish in wishing to preserve their culture unchanged but I've given up trying to defend the old lore on this. If the writers have decided differences are down to being in a different part of Thedas, who am I to say any different? What will be more annoying is if we are sold that as the excuse for the different vallaslin and then it turns out that they aren't genuine Dalish but we were forced to play the idiots in not spotting it. Even Davrin's vallaslin aren't consistent with previous designs but close enough that slight regional variations could account for it. Bellara's are completely different, though, so I will be interested to hear how she accounts for this and which god she claims to have allegiance to.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 24, 2024 20:31:24 GMT
So no one thinks she could be an ancient elves badly cosplaying a Dalish? Her gauntlett is ancient elven magic and it's designed with triangle all over. She has a big hairdo, ancient elves like having big stuff on their head for whatever reason. Her valasslin are unknown. If we go by what John Epler (her writer) said about her... no? She's supposed to be immensely curious about the past, and particularly how Evanuris were, and wants to learn about them to figure out how the world was. And we already met a few ancient elves/elves clued into what happened in the past, and they weren't like that - they looked at such enthusiasm with something of a wariness or "welp, you know... the past ain't as colorful as you seem to think it was".
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Post by themikefest on Jul 25, 2024 0:19:08 GMT
I don't know didn't think Peebee was THAT bad. She was worst. Will Bellara be like the peepee? Don't know. I will know when I the game.
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Post by Reznore on Jul 25, 2024 5:59:19 GMT
So no one thinks she could be an ancient elves badly cosplaying a Dalish? Her gauntlett is ancient elven magic and it's designed with triangle all over. She has a big hairdo, ancient elves like having big stuff on their head for whatever reason. Her valasslin are unknown. If we go by what John Epler (her writer) said about her... no? She's supposed to be immensely curious about the past, and particularly how Evanuris were, and wants to learn about them to figure out how the world was. And we already met a few ancient elves/elves clued into what happened in the past, and they weren't like that - they looked at such enthusiasm with something of a wariness or "welp, you know... the past ain't as colorful as you seem to think it was". Yeah I read the interview, just thought it might be a twist in her story. Because we have two Dalish elves in DA4, figured having an ancient elf point of view would be cool. Solas and the Evanuris were at the top of the food chain, and we don't have a "normal" ancient elf POV. Abelas was 5 minutes on screen, and Felassan was in a book.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 25, 2024 7:23:00 GMT
She's supposed to be immensely curious about the past, and particularly how Evanuris were, and wants to learn about them to figure out how the world was. In my own head-canon I had Lavellan attend the next Arlathvhen and told them what they had learned. Also gave out lots of cool elven items that I had acquired with the Inquisition (I never sold any ancient elven artifacts even if I had no use for them). Some people accepted their story, some rejected it and suggested they had been influenced by human propaganda, but I assume that gradually word might have spread that not everything in the old narrative might be true. So, I can easily believe Bellara had heard about these revelations and that prompted her to want to discover more. I assume that could also have been the reason that Strife's clan headed north in the first place because clearly they must have once been in the Freemarches for him to have encountered them just outside Starkhaven. Since Lavellan's clan also lived in the Freemarches it seems all the more likely information could have passed between them (assuming my clan survived). Even if the Inquisitor wasn't an elf, there were Dalish helping the Inquisition who presumably would have learned what we discovered and then fed back to their own clans, who passed the information on. Then naturally they would head north for Arlathan Forest because where better to find out about your ancestors than the place where you understood they lived. That much all hangs together plausibly so the clan(s) who headed north are likely genuine. The reason I am suspicious about Strife is that when the book started magically rewriting itself, the Keeper gave it to Strife to deal with. Why would the Keeper give it to Strife, an alleged city elf and not even a mage? Now he is leading the Veil Jumpers. The reason I am suspicious of Bellara is those strange vallaslin and the fixation with triangles. However, it is entirely possible she discovered an old artwork with the vallaslin and may be also discovered there was a significance with triangles for the ancient elves. I just want to be able to ask her or for her to tell me voluntarily. If she is an awakened ancient elf in disguise, I wonder if the tragedy they speak of in her past relates to the moment the Veil was created. A lot of elves died in that and there was that memory in the Vir Dirthara where the elf declared they would kill Fen'Harel if they survived it. They probably didn't but I dare say plenty of others felt the same. If one of those who survived woke up and discovered that Fen'Harel was going to reverse the process, resulting in more wholesale death and destruction, they might well wish to oppose him because they remember how it felt to them to lose those they loved.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 30, 2024 4:36:41 GMT
John Epler is very tired @eplerjc.bsky.social quick DATV correction, and we’be reached out elsewhere to correct - it’s Bellara Lutare, not Lutara
i’m bad at names but I’m not ‘unintentionally make the first and last name rhyme’ bad at names
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 30, 2024 5:15:46 GMT
Lutare is fine, though I didn't have a problem with Lutara, myself.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 30, 2024 7:31:36 GMT
Lutare is fine, though I didn't have a problem with Lutara, myself. I did wonder at the rhyming name and wondered if it was significant. Someone also pointed out the link between the 3 syllable names and her fixation with triangles. However, we can now rest assured that her name is just a name; nothing sinister there. ![:thumbsup:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/bPEwHJpbAIRkokRsvgHh.png)
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Post by RelevantRevenant on Jul 30, 2024 10:55:13 GMT
I've been wondering about her last name because it doesn't sound very Elven to me.
It also reminds me of a Finnish word "lutakko" which means something similar to a bayou in English.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 30, 2024 11:17:50 GMT
I've been wondering about her last name because it doesn't sound very Elven to me. That could indicate she comes from a civilisation with a different tradition or she originally came from a family of city elves. Her first name is more like that of a city elf, for example Briala, Lanaya (who I assume had her name before Zathrian adopted her, Valora or Rinalla. As for clan names, whilst the Dalish claim they trace to ancient elven families, there is no real evidence of that. I'm not sure exactly how city elves acquired their family names but they could be more tied to the regional they come from than elven roots. A thought that just occurred to me. Could Bellara have originated on Seheron? The Fog Dancers say their ancestors learned at the feet of the elves, so there must have been elves living on the island at one point. May be they continued to do so in small numbers. It would also link them to some extent to Par Vollen where the pyramids are as the original culture may have been spread across both islands. It might also account for the different vallaslin because they never were part of Dalish culture.
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Post by RelevantRevenant on Jul 30, 2024 11:55:41 GMT
I've been wondering about her last name because it doesn't sound very Elven to me. That could indicate she comes from a civilisation with a different tradition or she originally came from a family of city elves. Her first name is more like that of a city elf, for example Briala, Lanaya (who I assume had her name before Zathrian adopted her, Valora or Rinalla. As for clan names, whilst the Dalish claim they trace to ancient elven families, there is no real evidence of that. I'm not sure exactly how city elves acquired their family names but they could be more tied to the regional they come from than elven roots. A thought that just occurred to me. Could Bellara have originated on Seheron? The Fog Dancers say their ancestors learned at the feet of the elves, so there must have been elves living on the island at one point. May be they continued to do so in small numbers. It would also link them to some extent to Par Vollen where the pyramids are as the original culture may have been spread across both islands. It might also account for the different vallaslin because they never were part of Dalish culture. Excellent points, thank you! I don't think we know of too many elves with family names, either? Mainly the Elven Wardens in DAO and Inquisitors who were then referred to by using their family names, which then leads me to wonder if Davrin is the Warden's first or last name? I suppose it's not entirely out of the question that they might both be from a society of elves we've yet to encounter in DA lore.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 30, 2024 17:06:09 GMT
I suppose it's not entirely out of the question that they might both be from a society of elves we've yet to encounter in DA lore. Or just haven't encountered in game. In the Last Court there was a strange group of elves in the Tirashan, apparently quite violent with blood red vallaslin. It was suggested that perhaps they were worshipers of the Forgotten Ones. They were meant to have had worshipers of them in the old Dales, who were driven out as unwelcome, so could have headed west. Leliana also referred to them in Trespasser I seem to remember. Also, back before DAI I think there was some sort of hint that there were still other groups of elves out there who linked back through groups that had never been enslaved, presumably because those that were enslaved came exclusively from Arlathan Forest. At the time, I remember us discussing perhaps how one of these might be the clan to which Felassan belonged and we thought Solas might be from the same clan (which was true in a way) but then we met Abelas and the Sentinels of the Arbor Wilds and it seemed like it may have been referring to them. However, it does seem as though there could be multiple enclaves, perhaps loyal to different gods or none at all. So, I don't have a problem with Bellara or Davrin being from a group of elves we haven't met before or read about (because most information is based off the travels of Genitivi) but I would just like them to be honest about it if they are. Incidentally, another reason I am deeply suspicious of Strife is his name. How did he get that? It is not a city elf or a Dalish name and the latter do not have a tradition of naming the clan members in that way. We know ancient elves have names that indicated some attribute, like Pride or Sorrow, which can change over time, but they do not give us the name in common speech but elven, hence Solas and Abelas. Strife is an oddity of naming, like he translated his elven name so the Dalish clan would think it was just his name as a city elf in Starkhaven because they didn't know any better. At present I am far more wary of him than either Bellara or Davrin, particularly as he has such a devotion to Andruil and can read ancient texts so well a Dalish Keeper defers to him when it comes to doing so.
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Post by g_scoundrel on Jul 30, 2024 17:10:45 GMT
Lutare sounds very Italian to me.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 30, 2024 21:08:53 GMT
henchmannumber21 @alexdevos.bsky.social Is Lutare a family name or the name of her dalish clan?
John Epler is very tired @eplerjc.bsky.social family name
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 31, 2024 5:56:21 GMT
Lutare sounds very Italian to me. Google translate said: Lutare [Portuguese (Brazil)] = fight.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 31, 2024 7:21:04 GMT
Lutare [Portuguese (Brazil)] = fight. Well in world the elven word "Bel" means "Many", as in Asha'belannar, Woman of many years, and "Ar" means "I" or "Me". That would be slightly concerning as in elven her name would mean "I am many". Then if her family name means the same as the Portuguese she could be from a family of fighters or connected in some way with the Arcane Warriors. Then the leader of the Veil Jumpers is Strife. Coincidence? Hmm, perhaps it would be better to wait and see what Bellara has to say for herself. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that John Epler just thought it was a nice sounding name with nothing more significant than that.
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Post by sloth on Jul 31, 2024 13:20:03 GMT
Lutare sounds very Italian to me. Google translate said: Lutare [Portuguese (Brazil)] = fight.
"fight" is actually "Luta" or the verb "Lutar" in Brazilian Portuguese, without the "e" but maybe it was inspired by the word? or it is a combination with the word "lottare", that means "to fight" in italian? they already have the mage with Ice spells named "Neve", which means "Snow" in Brazilian Portuguese, so...
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