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2,137
SofNascimento
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sofnascimento
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 11, 2016 10:35:53 GMT
I am so curious to see how our 'gray choices' in dialog and decisions will shape our Ryder's 'role', both in what we can do and how our protag will be perceived by other game characters. I recall in ME-2 that if the ME-1 Shepard did not save the Council then (only) a few Citadel deinzens would say nasty things to or about Shep. I am so interested to see how role-playing will be improved in Andromeda. There were many decisions in ME-2 and -3 that were defined by BW as right or wrong that I disagreed with. I like to think that all of my decisions are right! Lol. I'd argue no decisions were defined as right and wrong by Bioware. I don't know why some many people have this odd view of P/R being right or wrong, good or bad... Andromda won't have it but the decisions will still be pretty much the same. Save a guy or don't save a guy. Do this or do that.
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zipzap2000
Zip has left the building.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by zipzap2000 on Nov 11, 2016 10:48:38 GMT
Tying classes and weapon use to the skill tree actually proves my point. Where you say convoluted I say it had depth. Could you elaborte? For example, how a Adept carrying a Sniper Rifle that he can't even aim is depth? Or having to level up several levels until your weapon actually becomes useful and not make combat less of a chore? No matter if you're a soldier or a Vanguard. The only cool thing about weapon skill was the unique-ish (and very simple) ability tied to each weapon. But those are still in ME2 and ME3, but in a much more elaborated way. If I'm not mistaken each skill in Mass Effect had 12 points to purchase, from those, between 9 and 10 were stuff like "use 1 skill point to 1% increase and damage". How is that depth as well? Of course a Vanguard can't aim a Sniper rifle in ME1 he's not trained to use it. If it wasn't the case you'd simply be able to pick up any gun at all and ignore what the game just told you about your class. (No longer the case but that's actually irrelevant here) Thats a different complaint though really. Tying your weapon use to your class and having you advance your skill with each weapon is no different to assigning points towards bows or daggers. With that example in mind. Lets say I want to go close in combat simply because the character seems the type. Similar to tanking a rogue assigning pts to strength and constitution/armour to do more damage and take a harder hit. I ignore pistol slots as best I can and try boost my health and shields/barrier/armour and shotgun etc. Forcing me to make trade offs early on and plan skill points out ahead with my character. Adding in mods regardless of how bad the inventory system was, expands on that further. Your character no longer is just a renegade who lives and dies where the action is, he blasts away with toxic rounds as he's closing. Playing the debilitator role as well. Adding in those functions allows you to roleplay the combat as well as well as the character. Giving you another layer to work with.
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 11, 2016 11:06:18 GMT
He can't in ME2 as well. Difference being you don't have to carry a weapon you can't use. Moreover, class aside, Shepard should be able to use any weapons, that's why I believe ME3 take on it is the best.
Expect that most of those skill points would be wasted. Most points you use to increase health and damage would be 1% increments or something as meaningless as that. So instead of unlocking one skill that gives you a meaningful 10% increase in health, what ME1 does is ask you to spend 10 skill points in 10 skills that will give you 1% increased health each.
What you just talked about is 100% in ME2 as well. Do you want to increase your health? Sure, there is the skill to do just that, which also will increase damage for your shotgun. In the end, you might want to choose between more damage or more health. Not to mention, you have powers like Biotic Charge that would make your Vanguard totally different from a soldier with a shotgun.
But turns out you prefer to use the pistol for a battle? You can! You won't feel like Shepard is a child with a gun just because you dindn't spend several skill points in a skill tree. ME is not a turn based RPG or even action-ish RPG like KoTOR or Baldur's Gate, but a shooter. ME1 was that as well, it just sucked at it.
And what does it mean, really? Your weapon has a cool green effect to it, that's about it. Weapon mods in ME1 are very much inconsequential. Now compare a Vanguard with incendiary ammo or freeze ammo. Two very different ways to tackle a battle. That kind of meaningful difference is nowhere in ME1. You can only imagine it there. (and sometimes the stats they change are noticiable).
You can do that in ME2 and ME3 as well.
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zipzap2000
Zip has left the building.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by zipzap2000 on Nov 11, 2016 12:25:59 GMT
He can't in ME2 as well. Difference being you don't have to carry a weapon you can't use. Moreover, class aside, Shepard should be able to use any weapons, that's why I believe ME3 take on it is the best. Expect that most of those skill points would be wasted. Most points you use to increase health and damage would be 1% increments or something as meaningless as that. So instead of unlocking one skill that gives you a meaningful 10% increase in health, what ME1 does is ask you to spend 10 skill points in 10 skills that will give you 1% increased health each. What you just talked about is 100% in ME2 as well. Do you want to increase your health? Sure, there is the skill to do just that, which also will increase damage for your shotgun. In the end, you might want to choose between more damage or more health. Not to mention, you have powers like Biotic Charge that would make your Vanguard totally different from a soldier with a shotgun. But turns out you prefer to use the pistol for a battle? You can! You won't feel like Shepard is a child with a gun just because you dindn't spend several skill points in a skill tree. ME is not a turn based RPG or even action-ish RPG like KoTOR or Baldur's Gate, but a shooter. ME1 was that as well, it just sucked at it. And what does it mean, really? Your weapon has a cool green effect to it, that's about it. Weapon mods in ME1 are very much inconsequential. Now compare a Vanguard with incendiary ammo or freeze ammo. Two very different ways to tackle a battle. That kind of meaningful difference is nowhere in ME1. You can only imagine it there. (and sometimes the stats they change are noticiable). You can do that in ME2 and ME3 as well. Now you're arguing gameplay. Not Role Playing or the skill tree or how one can add depth to the other,
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
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104
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8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 11, 2016 12:36:48 GMT
I am so curious to see how our 'gray choices' in dialog and decisions will shape our Ryder's 'role', both in what we can do and how our protag will be perceived by other game characters. I recall in ME-2 that if the ME-1 Shepard did not save the Council then (only) a few Citadel deinzens would say nasty things to or about Shep. I am so interested to see how role-playing will be improved in Andromeda. There were many decisions in ME-2 and -3 that were defined by BW as right or wrong that I disagreed with. I like to think that all of my decisions are right! Lol. I'd argue no decisions were defined as right and wrong by Bioware. I don't know why some many people have this odd view of P/R being right or wrong, good or bad... Andromda won't have it but the decisions will still be pretty much the same. Save a guy or don't save a guy. Do this or do that. It's not about P/R choices being labeled right or wrong. It's because they it's believed Paragon choices often had the better outcome, as if Bioware wanted to imply that they were the right ones to pick.
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2,137
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1,316
Aug 27, 2016 13:51:04 GMT
August 2016
sofnascimento
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 11, 2016 12:49:24 GMT
Now you're arguing gameplay. Not Role Playing or the skill tree or how one can add depth to the other, I'm arguing that things that have impact on the game are better than thigns that just let you pretend you're Shepard is any different, even though he is not. And as I said, any roleplaying ME1's skill tree allowed you to do ME2's and ME3's did as well. Unless of course, if an N7 soldier that doesn't know how to use a pistol is something you do want to roleplay then ME2 and ME3 will fall short there.
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Nov 23, 2024 11:57:59 GMT
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Sartoz
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August 2016
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 11, 2016 12:49:39 GMT
I am so curious to see how our 'gray choices' in dialog and decisions will shape our Ryder's 'role', both in what we can do and how our protag will be perceived by other game characters. I recall in ME-2 that if the ME-1 Shepard did not save the Council then (only) a few Citadel deinzens would say nasty things to or about Shep. I am so interested to see how role-playing will be improved in Andromeda. There were many decisions in ME-2 and -3 that were defined by BW as right or wrong that I disagreed with. I like to think that all of my decisions are right! Lol. I'd argue no decisions were defined as right and wrong by Bioware. I don't know why some many people have this odd view of P/R being right or wrong, good or bad... Andromda won't have it but the decisions will still be pretty much the same. Save a guy or don't save a guy. Do this or do that. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸ If done properly I agree. For example, Paradox Interactive came out with a new game called Tyranny. The developer too did away with "good" and "bad" decisions. In the game there are two factions that support an evil overlord that has conquered the world. One faction is merciless and will kill you even if you surrender. The other is merciful if you surrender but then you must serve them and their evil master. ... decisions, decisions... Those interested for more details on their implementation click on the Spoiler.
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Aug 27, 2016 13:51:04 GMT
August 2016
sofnascimento
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 11, 2016 12:51:04 GMT
I'd argue no decisions were defined as right and wrong by Bioware. I don't know why some many people have this odd view of P/R being right or wrong, good or bad... Andromda won't have it but the decisions will still be pretty much the same. Save a guy or don't save a guy. Do this or do that. It's not about P/R choices being labeled right or wrong. It's because they it's believed Paragon choices often had the better outcome, as if Bioware wanted to imply that they were the right ones to pick. I always felt both were pretty much the same.
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zipzap2000
Zip has left the building.
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August 2016
zipzap2000
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by zipzap2000 on Nov 11, 2016 13:16:44 GMT
Now you're arguing gameplay. Not Role Playing or the skill tree or how one can add depth to the other, I'm arguing that things that have impact on the game are better than thigns that just let you pretend you're Shepard is any different, even though he is not. And as I said, any roleplaying ME1's skill tree allowed you to do ME2's and ME3's did as well. Unless of course, if an N7 soldier that doesn't know how to use a pistol is something you do want to roleplay then ME2 and ME3 will fall short there. You can't blame the skill tree because you tried to use a gun the game told you that you weren't allowed to use. You do that entirely on your own. In most cases you actually have to go out of your way to find or buy one worth using anyway and then head through a confusing inventory system to do that first.
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 11, 2016 18:14:35 GMT
At least ME2 actually left unusable weapons away from our loadout, whereas everyone had the same exact arsenal makeup but couldn't use half of them.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,289 Likes: 50,645
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August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Nov 11, 2016 19:32:32 GMT
And what does it mean, really? Your weapon has a cool green effect to it, that's about it. Weapon mods in ME1 are very much inconsequential. Now compare a Vanguard with incendiary ammo or freeze ammo. Two very different ways to tackle a battle. That kind of meaningful difference is nowhere in ME1. You can only imagine it there. (and sometimes the stats they change are noticiable). Wait, what? Granted teh bonuses got higher and higher as the game progressed, but mods in ME1 were quite consequential! Even game-changers! No way in hell would I face down a krogan without poison or incendiary ammo! Unlike in ME2 and ME3 where Shepard can't even find that button on the weapon if the wrong class was picked, because...I dunno, the ammo was put in backwards?
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