Thanks for posting those NeoGAF posts, Hrungr. I think EatChildren made some excellent points and I'm relieved Aaryn Flynn seems to realize that mistakes were made in the marketing of MEA. More than anything, I wish Bioware would have consistency in their marketing. There has be a middle ground between DA:I's "SHOW ALL THE THINGS" marketing and MEA's "The game's coming out in 7-8months. Here's some footage of a developer resizing a rock."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition Prime Posts: 19631 Posts: 6,296 Likes: 8,156
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This still really irks me. There is no good reason for them to not bring all along, so it is just them throwing away more of what made Mass Effect Mass Effect.
This is the kind of vague shit shinobi like to pull. Even if we don't see any Yagh in Andromeda (Which is very likely) he would still be "right".
He was obviously not referring to the Yahg though. I honestly doubt that we're going to have all species in Andromeda.
Another interesting comment from the NeoGaf thread...
Originally Posted by EatChildren
I guarantee whatever they show will be met with vocal criticism as that's just a predictable groupthink in response to modern BioWare irrespective of justification. It probably wont be exactly what some people are expecting or want, and others will nitpick at trivialities that otherwise get a pass in competing franchises.
It's more just the woeful marketing leading up to the reveal that I think has scattered reception. When all is said and done an November 7th blowout may make the leadup cynicism redundant. But nevertheless the efforts gone towards keeping Andromeda a secret while in the same breath still drip feeding details has not worked to their favour.
As it stands the game is in such an unusual place. Officially we've have so little confirmed, information mostly comprised of art assets, early tech demos, and lukewarm teasers, coupled with off-hand announcements in interviews (like learning about the Ryder family). For the person, regardless of fan mania, who just want's to know more about Mass Effect: Andromeda, the specifics have been usually inconsistent and muddied in delivery. It's really hard to pinpoint exactly what the project is, and about if you're not following leaks and other details (and who says the leaked content, like the survey, are even relevant any more?) the marketing arm for Andromeda is a mess.
If the objective was to build a Fallout 4 style hype machine and marketing lead-up, BioWare and EA have failed. They were probably off on the wrong foot right at the start when they first announced the game existing at all, given Bethesda cleverly stayed mum on the project (despite its obvious existence) right up until the reveal. At least in Bethesda's case they could leverage the "we're not talking about the future of Fallout", but EA/BioWare couldn't with Andromeda. In their case they had already announced the game, and so fans kept asking to see more of something they new existed. And those somethings so far have been bunk.
They just need to get it done and dusted, basically. Give people/fans something tangible to talk about. And if there are concerns and worries about certain gameplay elements and content, they can be properly addressed and discussed instead the vague nothingness we have at the moment.
Reply by Aaryn:
You make some really good points.
I can't undo decisions that were made years ago about revealing the existence of the game in development, so we all have to live with that (nobody more so than the MEA team). And we all know why there's an assumption of negativity - good people like Casey leave BioWare, we don't reveal everything about development, etc.
But I think we're through almost all of that now, which means what we show and talk about, starting with the tech demo at the Sony event a few days ago, should be factual, concrete, and meaningful to fans. That does NOT mean we reveal EVERYTHING, but I think we'll be both better armed and in more familiar territory between now and release.
Anyway, hope that helps.
- It'll be interesting to see their marketing approach for the next games. I'm all but certain now they will adopt a marketing approach even closer to Apple/Bethesda's in the future. Essentially - officially say nothing until a few months before release - then go crazy. We'll see with the Secret IP...
And this is why I said BioWare is really wishing that they didn't announce their game so many odd years ago. Of course, at that time, they were prolly figuring on creating another Unreal 3 engine game, then EA came along and said, "We have FB3. BOOM! *mic drop*"
i really like pathfinder's setting but i REALLY don't like how focused on min/maxing the rules are. it's designed from the ground up by and for min/maxer's and autists. the rest of us normies have to play on crayon eater difficulty just to hit a target. j00t Fires Of Heaven www.firesofheaven.org/
goishen : All that stuff was from Frostbite engine even back with the first glimps. DAI at that point the company as a whole had been messing with Frostbite to add in RPG and cinematic control for conversations and actual cutscenes.
It seems weird to say BioWare is the reason the ability to 'make' a cutscene in frostbite even exist but prior to that ALL 'cutscenes' - that is stuff where you don't have control - was always from your FPS perspective. That is, you never actually see your characters face in BF3 or BF4 'cutscenes'. It's all just moments that take over your personal camera and force you to look at other in-game actors do stuff then look at you and tell you to do something then it's gameplay.
Anyway my bet on 'why' they even showed the next ME game off (or well, assets/in-engine level concepts) it's cause of the end of ME3? All that crazyness that happened at the end of ME3 could leave a lot of questions as to weather or not they would ever make another Mass Effect game at all you know?
Feels more like they wanted to reassure fans there will be more Mass Effect, it wont continue the last trilogy so we don't have to worry about anything. You know, 'we learned from it, we wont do it again but we're still making more of the game you want' kinda reassurance things. Course that's also just resulted in there being jack-shit for information.
Well, upon some more thinking, I think that we're both partially correct. I think that video was released in 2013? So, by that time they were just planning it, working on DA:I, and seeing how amazing it was. With the successes of DAI, and how well they say that FB3 is with shooters, it made it a no brainer.
i really like pathfinder's setting but i REALLY don't like how focused on min/maxing the rules are. it's designed from the ground up by and for min/maxer's and autists. the rest of us normies have to play on crayon eater difficulty just to hit a target. j00t Fires Of Heaven www.firesofheaven.org/
shinobi602 "It's ironic that many are mocking the animations in the game when it's all entirely from the ground up. All new animations. They're using a brand new locomotion system in the game similar to the things Ubisoft is trying to push with For Honor. It's the body locomotion with locked feet and natural gesturing system.
You can see it in the way Ryder walks and transitions into different speeds and turns. Animations look much better than any previous BioWare game."
The new animation/locomotion system sounds interesting and the movement does look good (distracting buttstraps aside... ). Hopefully we'll see some non-humanoid aliens with cool animations in this too...
Movement is nice but I think they should polish landing animation a little more. It seems choppy the way Ryder lands after using jetpack. Maybe it's just me tho.
The mission is to perform the tax returns for every member of the development team then have your worked mocked by commander Vyrnnus.
I loved the bank quest in Witcher 3. Brutally real quest lol. I would love to see the old "ah, you need M1MP form to get access to your locker key" kind of shenanigans on the ark/tempest.
That mission is taken from The Twelve Tasks of Asterix. Great mission, but I liked the conclusion in Asterix more. In the cartoon, Asterix starts asking for permit A-39 instead of A-38, driving the bureaucrats crazy.
As a fan of both Asterix and The Witcher, I also thought this was a great quest.
Post by rapscallioness on Sept 23, 2016 20:56:43 GMT
The physical movement is so much better. My God. So much better. Shep in ME3 had the kind of running animation that only a mother could love.
I'm very interested to see how the female PC moves. I love the way the male PC moves. I hope I love the way the female PC moves, too.
DAI marketing was a bowl of spaghetti. They would start things like companion profiles to be released every month. They would do it one or two times, then just stop. No word to anybody about anything. Then they did that with something else I can't remember, but same thing. Do it a couple times; drop it; never say a word to anybody about it again. Everybody's wondering what happened. Reveals coming out at various cosplay shows that had nothing to do with BW.
The Twitch streams were pretty good. And, true, they showed some things that did not make it to final cut. Imo, that's okay and understandable. I just wish they had dropped a note in their blog, or something, letting people know some adjustments had to be made so those paths were no longer a part of the game.
Even with the dropped companion marketing ideas--just talk to us. Say, hey, that was not working out/we changed our mind about the approach/something. Talk to us. Better to have that stuff out there sooner than later.
edit: the DAI trailers were good, though. Loved them. They were done in-house, I believe? The one with the dragons battling..my favorite. Still.
Blair Brown @thefiddzz DDs/Producers - how do you ask these questions of your devs? 1. What are you working on? 2. How long to do that? 3. Is it done yet?
Cori Nicole May @genevrael From a distance, holding chocolate and/or alcohol in outstretched hands?
Karin Weekes @karinweekes Cori is wise and accurate in this matter.
David Gaider @davidgaider I bit of mincing supplication also works wonders.
Jeff Theriault fieldflux 1. None of your business. 2. As long as I want. 3. No.
Blair Brown @thefiddzz
Jeff Theriault fieldflux You're no longer privileged to know what I'm doing.
Blair Brown @thefiddzz True story.. .but just wait till the day you come back on my team muhahahaha
This still really irks me. There is no good reason for them to not bring all along, so it is just them throwing away more of what made Mass Effect Mass Effect.
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What are we, now? Mother Teresa?
Besides, you have to make room for the new aliens and Bio can't do that if everyone from the MW is brought along. Or, if it makes you happy, Bio can say they brought an ARK full of a, b, c and d species but the ARK never made it...
Morpheus: "know what happened happened and that it could not have happened in any other way".
Movement is nice but I think they should polish landing animation a little more. It seems choppy the way Ryder lands after using jetpack. Maybe it's just me tho.
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How odd. I was thinking about that too, while I watched the 4k tech Video. It's like he goes into a fetal position (unnatural to me) when he jumps, then slams when he hits the ground.... same animation over and over.
This animation does require some "polishing", imo.
Morpheus: "know what happened happened and that it could not have happened in any other way".
DAI marketing was a bowl of spaghetti. They would start things like companion profiles to be released every month. They would do it one or two times, then just stop. No word to anybody about anything. Then they did that with something else I can't remember, but same thing. Do it a couple times; drop it; never say a word to anybody about it again. Everybody's wondering what happened. Reveals coming out at various cosplay shows that had nothing to do with BW.
I had forgotten all about that. Their marketing really has been a hot mess over the last few years.
I realise I'm probably in the minority (and maybe this should go in the Unpopular Opinions thread) but I would personally prefer a less-is-more approach. I kind of hated all the live streams and whatnot they did leading up to the release of Inquisition--like when they did the "we play the first 20 minutes" or whatever it was. I had to be very careful about what I did and didn't read or watch because I didn't want them ruining that 'first play through' feeling for me.
So, I am certainly curious to see how they handle Andromeda. There's a lot riding (hurr-hurr) on this game after the various debacles over the years, but I'm already quietly preparing for an early evacuation from the forums and gaming press in the event they decide to go all out and (over)show their hand again. >.<
Thanks for posting those NeoGAF posts, Hrungr. I think EatChildren made some excellent points and I'm relieved Aaryn Flynn seems to realize that mistakes were made in the marketing of MEA. More than anything, I wish Bioware would have consistency in their marketing. There has be a middle ground between DA:I's "SHOW ALL THE THINGS" marketing and MEA's "The game's coming out in 7-8months. Here's some footage of a developer resizing a rock."
Personally, I prefer the Apple/Bethesda approach of showing us the goods once they have everything locked down and as as close to "final release" as they can. That said, I'd love to see more novels, comics, hb books, spin-off games, etc. to help fill the time between releases...
The new animation/locomotion system sounds interesting and the movement does look good (distracting buttstraps aside... ). Hopefully we'll see some non-humanoid aliens with cool animations in this too...
Movement is nice but I think they should polish landing animation a little more. It seems choppy the way Ryder lands after using jetpack. Maybe it's just me tho.
Agreed, the jetpack landings are... a little odd. Not offensively so, but "off" a bit, not quite natural feeling.
DAI marketing was a bowl of spaghetti. They would start things like companion profiles to be released every month. They would do it one or two times, then just stop. No word to anybody about anything. Then they did that with something else I can't remember, but same thing. Do it a couple times; drop it; never say a word to anybody about it again. Everybody's wondering what happened. Reveals coming out at various cosplay shows that had nothing to do with BW.
I had forgotten all about that. Their marketing really has been a hot mess over the last few years.
I realise I'm probably in the minority (and maybe this should go in the Unpopular Opinions thread) but I would personally prefer a less-is-more approach. I kind of hated all the live streams and whatnot they did leading up to the release of Inquisition--like when they did the "we play the first 20 minutes" or whatever it was. I had to be very careful about what I did and didn't read or watch because I didn't want them ruining that 'first play through' feeling for me.
So, I am certainly curious to see how they handle Andromeda. There's a lot riding (hurr-hurr) on this game after the various debacles over the years, but I'm already quietly preparing for an early evacuation from the forums and gaming press in the event they decide to go all out and (over)show their hand again. >.<
Totally agree. I nearly had full-on meltdown when they said they were streaming the first 20 min. of DAI. Yeah, I hope they don't over-show they hand as well, I want some mystery going in. I don't need to know all the companions, all the planets we're visiting, etc.. Ideally, I'd just want to see enough to get a good sense of the game/gameplay/a few of the companions and that's it.
DAI marketing was a bowl of spaghetti. They would start things like companion profiles to be released every month. They would do it one or two times, then just stop. No word to anybody about anything. Then they did that with something else I can't remember, but same thing. Do it a couple times; drop it; never say a word to anybody about it again. Everybody's wondering what happened. Reveals coming out at various cosplay shows that had nothing to do with BW.
I had forgotten all about that. Their marketing really has been a hot mess over the last few years.
I realise I'm probably in the minority (and maybe this should go in the Unpopular Opinions thread) but I would personally prefer a less-is-more approach. I kind of hated all the live streams and whatnot they did leading up to the release of Inquisition--like when they did the "we play the first 20 minutes" or whatever it was. I had to be very careful about what I did and didn't read or watch because I didn't want them ruining that 'first play through' feeling for me.
So, I am certainly curious to see how they handle Andromeda. There's a lot riding (hurr-hurr) on this game after the various debacles over the years, but I'm already quietly preparing for an early evacuation from the forums and gaming press in the event they decide to go all out and (over)show their hand again. >.<
Yes, definitely preparing for an early evac. I'm even thinking about passing on any squadmate info, as much as possible because there's some special magic about that blind first PT. Although, in DAO I did miss some companions because I did not know. I almost missed Lelianna in that tavern. I did miss Sten on my first DAO PT. Oops! lol.
I would like to see some gameplay. Get a better feel about the game without spoiling story or squadmates. I do need to know more about the game before I decide if I want to pick it up at some point.
Maybe N7 day will be that time, and I can go dark after that.
edit: Or maybe I can hide out in the DA forums after N7 day? That might work? Right?
Movement is nice but I think they should polish landing animation a little more. It seems choppy the way Ryder lands after using jetpack. Maybe it's just me tho.
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How odd. I was thinking about that too, while I watched the 4k tech Video. It's like he goes into a fetal position (unnatural to me) when he jumps, then slams when he hits the ground.... same animation over and over.
This animation does require some "polishing", imo.
You mean bring his legs up? He doesn't go 'fetal' he just brings his legs up which is something people do often to get better clearance. As far as the landing, it's rather fast and, if you drop from 10 feet your gonna do roughly the same thing all be it you'll stay down longer. Generally you have to use your legs for absorption and that'll result in you needing to use your hands . Most people who do that kinda thing consistently (like free running or Parkour) will go into a roll when doing it to re-direct that momentum.
Honestly I think it looks more um, 'comic book hero'. The stance in air is very super hero visually all be it not as crazy as say a spider-man. And the landing looks far more '3 point' minus the extended leg nonsense. If he was falling from that height and not going into a roll I'd expect the landing to be a lot harder. Keep in mind the jetpack is just throwing him up, it's not consistently on while he lands.
edit: watching the video s'more also kinda shows the stance mid air changes depending on how fast/far you go. The legs don't come up unless hes been in the air a certain distance for that super hero-y pose. Looks more like hes bracing for the inevitable impact. You wouldn't want your legs straight when your falling, gadda bend and prepare to absorb/redirect.