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Post by Element Zero on Apr 6, 2017 12:59:28 GMT
I don't think it was ever the nature of the content that was a big deal. It was simply refreshing to have a major release actively supported via free DLC for an extended time. The armors and the like were all useless to me, but things like additional animations are always welcome. Honestly, given the reception and buggy state of MEA, it wouldn't hurt BioWare to release a small, free SP DLC, or two. It's not EA's way, so I'm not holding my breath. Still, the iconic rifle from the ad campaign (and a third of the in-game cutscenes) is missing. Should we have to pay for it via DLC, or should BioWare offer a free weapons pack? The Black Emporium was free in Inquisition. ME2 had quite a bit of free content for people who had a new copy of the game and that was then released for everyone later on. and in the Sims 4 (another EA game) they have released quite a lot of free content quite frequently which many assumed they would have to pay for. Hell EA has the "On The House" promo were they give out free games, DLC, and other extra content (They gave out all the DLC for Battlefield 4 and Hardline for free at one point) this seems more down to the "EA can do no right/ CDPR can do no wrong" attitude the Internet has. If that's what you got from my post, then I suggest you read the two I posted prior to it. I own pretty much every BioWare game ever made, and own every bit of the DLC, where applicable. Very little of it has come free. Very few studios/publishers give it away, which is why the free stuff with TW3 was refreshing, even if it was mostly useless to me.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 6, 2017 13:03:53 GMT
ME3, DA2, Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption, Inquisition and other big games with a huge scope released in buggy states. Witcher 3 ran at 20fps throughout several areas and cutscenes on PS4 until Patch 1.10 and it had some streaming issues here and there. DA:I had 2 dialogue wheels in critical scenes that would not show up until 2 weeks into launch when it was patched, then it had a character level up screen that would lock up the game if you pressed the combination of "open menu, confirm, confirm" too fast. Music would play when it shouldn't in Skyhold and other annoying issues.
Andromeda however, is just plain unstable. Every time you open a menu you catch a glimpse of the fact that the 2D UI element is rendered on a 3D map as it quickly adjusts the camera angle. When you close a menu you briefly see the game re-streaming the assets and characters in T-poses being respawned. Idle NPCs have broken poses, the audio crashes in hubs or driving the Nomad sometimes, several lines like Hainley Abrams clearly didn't make it beyond a first draft.
It's unfinished. It's not good enough to be a game that has recently launched being a game of this calibre and a 40-million budget and 5-year cycle. Like Destiny, something went wrong with the production in this game but at least Destiny ran fine, in fact, it was a perfect stable 30fps and minimal mechanical jank. EA or BioWare's higher-paid staff rushed this out the door to reach this fiscal year's quota so BioWare can move forward without having to postpone plans for the entire studio, get on with their intended DLC schedule and so on. I'm just rolling my eyes when I see people trying to excuse everything in this game by making disingenuous comparisons or sugarcoating it and I say this as someone who despite scoring this thing low, I enjoyed it a lot.
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Twitter Guru
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More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 6, 2017 13:08:56 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 6, 2017 13:10:20 GMT
A lot of that "Free DLC" though can be easily argued as cut content being added again later, one of those DLC was New Game + which is standard on release with most other games and all the other stuff is extremely minor when compared to the free content they released for there previous games. I don't think it was ever the nature of the content that was a big deal. It was simply refreshing to have a major release actively supported via free DLC for an extended time. The armors and the like were all useless to me, but things like additional animations are always welcome. Honestly, given the reception and buggy state of MEA, it wouldn't hurt BioWare to release a small, free SP DLC, or two. It's not EA's way, so I'm not holding my breath. Still, the iconic rifle from the ad campaign (and a third of the in-game cutscenes) is missing. Should we have to pay for it via DLC, or should BioWare offer a free weapons pack? They've actually done it in case of DAI - tinting table, golden nug, multiple outfits for Inquisitor, even a few items designed by others in the contest - each and any of these things is actually as or more substantial than, say: a single alternative look of one character that was touted as "free DLC"... but I see people not counting all those items, since they were added to main game via patches. Heck, they've even thrown in some facial animation and lipsync improvements prior to releasing Trespasser - though the difference is so subtle, most people can't even tell.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 6, 2017 13:15:54 GMT
I don't think it was ever the nature of the content that was a big deal. It was simply refreshing to have a major release actively supported via free DLC for an extended time. The armors and the like were all useless to me, but things like additional animations are always welcome. Honestly, given the reception and buggy state of MEA, it wouldn't hurt BioWare to release a small, free SP DLC, or two. It's not EA's way, so I'm not holding my breath. Still, the iconic rifle from the ad campaign (and a third of the in-game cutscenes) is missing. Should we have to pay for it via DLC, or should BioWare offer a free weapons pack? They've actually done it in case of DAI - tinting table, golden nug, multiple outfits for Inquisitor, even a few items designed by others in the contest - each and any of these things is actually as or more substantial than, say: a single alternative look of one character that was touted as "free DLC"... but I see people not counting those all those items were added to main game via patches. Heck, they've even thrown in some facial animation and lipsynch improvements prior to releasing Trespasser - though the difference is so subtle, most people can't even tell. Yeah, they were awesome with DAI's support. I often overlook it because I gave up on DAI after my first playthrough (terrible DA gameplay), sold it, and only played it again after (re)purchasing the GotY Edition. They greatly enhanced the game; but I'm not really up on what was free DLC, what was paid DLC, and what was patched. Getting that stuff all at once made the distinction irrelevant, for me. The additions to DAI were extremely beneficial. If MEA gets similar support, I'll be ecstatic.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 6, 2017 13:35:03 GMT
No doubt BioWare could've reached their target renders for DA:I and MEA if they'd have developed for Scorpio. Holy cow, that's a massive upgrade!
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Post by jastall on Apr 6, 2017 13:41:41 GMT
The best part is, in regards to romances, TW3 did the exact same thing. The Triss romance was considered unfulfilling by several in comparison to the Yennefer romance, and CDPR patched in a couple of extra scenes to alleviate that. That made them the God-Kings of gamers, generous overlords that grace us with their time and efforts. When Bioware does that? OMG that game was early access, I wasted my life, how can they be so greedy, etc.
The double standard is really blatant.
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Post by r3dl4nce on Apr 6, 2017 13:45:31 GMT
Yeah, they were awesome with DAI's support. I often overlook it because I gave up on DAI after my first playthrough (terrible DA gameplay), sold it, and only played it again after (re)purchasing the GotY Edition. They greatly enhanced the game; but I'm not really up on what was free DLC, what was paid DLC, and what was patched. Getting that stuff all at once made the distinction irrelevant, for me. The additions to DAI were extremely beneficial. If MEA gets similar support, I'll be ecstatic. I think Bioware MUST give a great post-release support with Andromeda. Not because the game has some bugs or things that some people think that need fixing. It's because, even if sales are good, they must show that all the Internet hate that Andromeda got is false or exxagerated, if in some months most of the bugs will be fixed, the games will get some missing polishing, in the future people will remember Andromeda for what is really is, a great Mass Effect game, so thay can sell DLC or ME:A2 without problems
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Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 6, 2017 13:55:19 GMT
ME3, DA2, Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption, Inquisition and other big games with a huge scope released in buggy states. Witcher 3 ran at 20fps throughout several areas and cutscenes on PS4 until Patch 1.10 and it had some streaming issues here and there. DA:I had 2 dialogue wheels in critical scenes that would not show up until 2 weeks into launch when it was patched, then it had a character level up screen that would lock up the game if you pressed the combination of "open menu, confirm, confirm" too fast. Music would play when it shouldn't in Skyhold and other annoying issues. Andromeda however, is just plain unstable. Every time you open a menu you catch a glimpse of the fact that the 2D UI element is rendered on a 3D map as it quickly adjusts the camera angle. When you close a menu you briefly see the game re-streaming the assets and characters in T-poses being respawned. Idle NPCs have broken poses, the audio crashes in hubs or driving the Nomad sometimes, several lines like Hainley Abrams clearly didn't make it beyond a first draft.It's unfinished. It's not good enough to be a game that has recently launched being a game of this calibre and a 40-million budget and 5-year cycle. Like Destiny, something went wrong with the production in this game but at least Destiny ran fine, in fact, it was a perfect stable 30fps and minimal mechanical jank. EA or BioWare's higher-paid staff rushed this out the door to reach this fiscal year's quota so BioWare can move forward without having to postpone plans for the entire studio, get on with their intended DLC schedule and so on. I'm just rolling my eyes when I see people trying to excuse everything in this game by making disingenuous comparisons or sugarcoating it and I say this as someone who despite scoring this thing low, I enjoyed it a lot. Agreed it's a good fun game and I finished my first run last night but yeah it's unstable I've either had problems with stuttering either coming out of menu's back into the action and also in cutscenes as well and considering it's an RPG you do have to come in and out of menu's a lot in these sorts of games to choose what powers to unlock or upgrade and such like that as you level up and progress through it. I also experienced quite a number of crashes as wel especially again in cutscenes in fact during the final mission it was crashing like every 5 minutes or so which was bad and cretainly made it hard for me to actually finish the game because of it. I got there though but it wasn't easy.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 6, 2017 13:57:02 GMT
TW3 released 16 free DLCs among them new quests, animations and looks for characters, they also made changes to the UI in the paid Expansion Packs, no one had issue with that lol. The difference is the bar for quality when it launched only being improved upon later whereas MEA has gotten panned by not just fans but critics for being unfinished and is now getting statements followed with patches and it does raise some eyebrows. Doens't mean Polygon aren't being disingenuous about their narrative though.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 6, 2017 13:57:07 GMT
Don't think i've ever seen this much drama around the release of a game. Its quite frankly very embarrassing for everyone involved in this. Indeed, some of the reviewers should be ashamed of themselves...
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 6, 2017 14:00:15 GMT
Don't think i've ever seen this much drama around the release of a game. Its quite frankly very embarrassing for everyone involved in this. Indeed, some of the reviewers should be ashamed of themselves... I think the biggest culprit is how toxic this internet culture has become. I also noticed however, that the staff at Gamespot are new and very young (I think my age, around 22-25) and they have sort of the same mentality as us internet-posters do. Knee jerk reactions and stirring the pot unprofessionally because they're too emotionally caught up. I dunno what has happened to Journalism in terms of what it requires anymore because it really seems like there's a lack of professionalism that's increasing and I guess too many internet-culture bandwagons to jump onto. Then there's also the good point they raised on IGN that it just seems like Mass Effect has become a "toxic brand" which I agree with. ME3, EA rumors and EA's "worst company in america" thing did wonders for it.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 6, 2017 14:02:52 GMT
Don't think i've ever seen this much drama around the release of a game. Its quite frankly very embarrassing for everyone involved in this. Well, there was Mass Effect 3. And No Man's Sky was a pretty good drama too. I like the game, despite agreeing with almost all criticism. At the same time, the message from Flynn did feel like something you'd get from an early access developer.
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N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 6, 2017 14:07:29 GMT
Don't think i've ever seen this much drama around the release of a game. Its quite frankly very embarrassing for everyone involved in this. Indeed, some of the reviewers should be ashamed of themselves... yeah I think story wise and the gameplay for the most part is fine but for me the area that needs most attention is the game is stabilty as the stuttering and constant crashing I experienced in the 1 playthrough I've done was beyond funny. I never had these problems with DAI so I don't know what happened there considering it's the same engine and everything. The game was barely holding together I don't mind the occasional crash as that's to be expected but crashing every 5 minutes while trying to complet ethe final mission was beyongd funny and rather infuriating frankly. My patience was tested to it's limits last night when it was happening.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 6, 2017 14:10:00 GMT
And as with the ME3 scenario, IT'S A FUCKING GAME, not a piece of Mozart. ... Around 1/4 of Mozart's works were unfinished, so Mozart appeared to have a fairly 'flexible' approach to composition. Often he would get the critical path laid down and leave 'side content' to fill in later. On that basis, BioWare and Mozart may well have rather a lot in common...
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 6, 2017 14:15:15 GMT
And as with the ME3 scenario, IT'S A FUCKING GAME, not a piece of Mozart. ... Around 1/4 of Mozart's works were unfinished, so Mozart appeared to have a fairly 'flexible' approach to composition. Often he would get the critical path laid down and leave 'side content' to fill in later. On that basis, BioWare and Mozart may well have rather a lot in common... And again we just prove that the whole "game is art, therefore X" debates are dumb. It's not even up for debate but the inception of this whole argument came from ME3's ending because it seemed like it was artistic and Casey coined "Artistic integrity", and all journalists just gobbled it up like idiots. Everyone were played.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 6, 2017 14:18:49 GMT
Indeed, some of the reviewers should be ashamed of themselves... I think the biggest culprit is how toxic this internet culture has become. I also noticed however, that the staff at Gamespot are new and very young (I think my age, around 22-25) and they have sort of the same mentality as us internet-posters do. Knee jerk reactions and stirring the pot unprofessionally because they're too emotionally caught up. I dunno what has happened to Journalism in terms of what it requires anymore because it really seems like there's a lack of professionalism that's increasing and I guess too many internet-culture bandwagons to jump onto. Then there's also the good point they raised on IGN that it just seems like Mass Effect has become a "toxic brand" which I agree with. ME3, EA rumors and EA's "worst company in america" thing did wonders for it. Probably a discussion for a separate thread, but (for example) GameSpot's 6/10 was in my view opportunistic journalism from the 'look at the funny faces, lol' school of journalism. If people buy the game in huge numbers (which they seem to be doing) then the brand is fine, whatever some cool reviewers say. Anyway, looking forward to some tweets when the patch drops...
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Post by alexy on Apr 6, 2017 14:27:01 GMT
And as with the ME3 scenario, IT'S A FUCKING GAME, not a piece of Mozart. ... Around 1/4 of Mozart's works were unfinished, so Mozart appeared to have a fairly 'flexible' approach to composition. Often he would get the critical path laid down and leave 'side content' to fill in later. On that basis, BioWare and Mozart may well have rather a lot in common... We could probably find tens of different examples of artists supporting this method. Truth is, it doesn't matter if it's used by game developers, genius composers or what have you. What's important is that it's generally a good method to work on projects: tackle the important issues first, then work on the rest later. People can be mad that they were charged full price for something that they were intending to change, but at the same time I don't think some issues were initially considered something to be addressed down the road, like animations. I know that article is an opinion, but then again it's blowing things out of proportion. Or, at least, I don't remember Polygon writing something like this when AC: Unity came out. So it doesn't really feel fair, regardless of their enjoyment of the game.
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 6, 2017 14:30:16 GMT
Indeed, some of the reviewers should be ashamed of themselves... yeah I think story wise and the gameplay for the most part is fine but for me the area that needs most attention is the game is stabilty as the stuttering and constant crashing I experienced in the 1 playthrough I've done was beyond funny. I never had these problems with DAI so I don't know what happened there considering it's the same engine and everything. The game was barely holding together I don't mind the occasional crash as that's to be expected but crashing every 5 minutes while trying to complet ethe final mission was beyongd funny and rather infuriating frankly. My patience was tested to it's limits last night when it was happening. Initially I had problems with crashes on the PC, but it was really a heatsink problem, and since I properly installed a new fan it has been running really smooth. MEA does however put significanly more strain on the system than my other games.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 6, 2017 14:31:15 GMT
And as with the ME3 scenario, IT'S A FUCKING GAME, not a piece of Mozart. ... Around 1/4 of Mozart's works were unfinished, so Mozart appeared to have a fairly 'flexible' approach to composition. Often he would get the critical path laid down and leave 'side content' to fill in later. On that basis, BioWare and Mozart may well have rather a lot in common... All Kafkas novels are unfinished.
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Post by Ajna on Apr 6, 2017 14:32:38 GMT
All my stuttering and freezing after prolonged play disappeared as soon as I threw in another 8gb of RAM, it runs as smooth as an Angara's arse now.
That's my random comment of the day.
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Post by brownfinger on Apr 6, 2017 14:34:49 GMT
It's not inconceivable to me that after hundreds of years of human social progress, maybe transgender discussions can be substantially more free and open than they are in 21st century society. Again, I think it was an attempt by the writer to make a normal thing appear... well, normal. Ryder did ask what brought her to Andromeda, and was clearly looking for her story. Rub any combination of brain cells together and people may find that logical discourse is preferable to the baser instincts of poo-flinging outrage.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 6, 2017 14:39:48 GMT
I think the biggest culprit is how toxic this internet culture has become. I also noticed however, that the staff at Gamespot are new and very young (I think my age, around 22-25) and they have sort of the same mentality as us internet-posters do. Knee jerk reactions and stirring the pot unprofessionally because they're too emotionally caught up. I dunno what has happened to Journalism in terms of what it requires anymore because it really seems like there's a lack of professionalism that's increasing and I guess too many internet-culture bandwagons to jump onto. Then there's also the good point they raised on IGN that it just seems like Mass Effect has become a "toxic brand" which I agree with. ME3, EA rumors and EA's "worst company in america" thing did wonders for it. Probably a discussion for a separate thread, but (for example) GameSpot's 6/10 was in my view opportunistic journalism from the 'look at the funny faces, lol' school of journalism. If people buy the game in huge numbers (which they seem to be doing) then the brand is fine, whatever some cool reviewers say. Anyway, looking forward to some tweets when the patch drops... Eh, not necessarily. If you hype a lot of people into buying the game right out of the gate, only for it to be a gigantic piece of cr*p, the same wouldn't really be called a "success" (look at No Man's Sky) What ultimately matters is staying power. Does the game sell well, not just the first week or two, but does it stay popular for months? Or do people lose interest? Or go toxic? I give Mass Effect more cr*p than most, and even I say it's too soon to tell with MEA.
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Post by sil on Apr 6, 2017 14:47:10 GMT
Are there any twitter updates?
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MegaIllusiveMan
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I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: MegaIllusiveMan
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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 6, 2017 14:48:03 GMT
Anyway, looking forward to some tweets when the patch drops... About that...Do we know what time the patch is suposed to be released?Never mind. Found it. To those that want to know, it's 8 AM PT(4 PM UK) Patch
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