OrbitalWings
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Post by OrbitalWings on Aug 20, 2017 15:06:14 GMT
Something really does need to be done about the communication issue, but I'm not sure what BioWare can do with it.
I remember when DAI production was ramping up, they talked about how they wanted to be far more transparent with fans about what they were doing - but that bit them hard when they showed off a couple of features that were eventually removed to improve the gameplay experience & streamline the game, but of course fans reacted predictably and acted like the features had been 'taken' from them.
Because we all wanted to be getting slowed down in mud and there's so many applications for setting boats on fire /s /tangent
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Post by eskiya on Aug 20, 2017 16:19:57 GMT
Something really does need to be done about the communication issue, but I'm not sure what BioWare can do with it. I remember when DAI production was ramping up, they talked about how they wanted to be far more transparent with fans about what they were doing - but that bit them hard when they showed off a couple of features that were eventually removed to improve the gameplay experience & streamline the game, but of course fans reacted predictably and acted like the features had been 'taken' from them. Because we all wanted to be getting slowed down in mud and there's so many applications for setting boats on fire /s /tangent That bit them hard, yeah. But this time they went WAY too far in the opposite direction. They gave close to zero communication with MEA, and now it's bitten them just as hard as being overly open with DAI. I actually think their communication with MEA has made things worse. They really need to find a happy medium. I think if they had been more open with things by saying 'hey, we really want to continue with a DLC, we even teased for it. We're working hard to try and make it happen and we'll let you know when we know.' would have gotten a better reaction than complete silence and then 'sorry nothing for you.'
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Post by haolyn on Aug 20, 2017 16:48:53 GMT
Catherynne Valente @catvalente The book has been in the works much longer than the game has been out
There you go. They decided the Quarian Ark plot would be solved in the book way before the game's release.
And yet they left all the hints about it in the game. It's coming in multiplayer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 16:55:07 GMT
Catherynne Valente @catvalenteThe book has been in the works much longer than the game has been out There you go. They decided the Quarian Ark plot would be solved in the book way before the game's release. And yet they left all the hints about it in the game. It's coming in multiplayer. You see I'm not saying that your assumption is not true but the only thing you can read from her words is that the she started working on the book before the game was published. Her words don't demonstrate that they wanted to solve the Quarian Ark on MP to begin with. This don't outright deny the possibility that after the game reception upon BW request she tweaked her book to complete the story and include the scrapped DLC. It might be very well that what you are assuming is right but it's just an assumption not a certainty.
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Post by haolyn on Aug 20, 2017 17:05:42 GMT
Catherynne Valente @catvalenteThe book has been in the works much longer than the game has been out There you go. They decided the Quarian Ark plot would be solved in the book way before the game's release. And yet they left all the hints about it in the game. It's coming in multiplayer. You see I'm not saying that your assumption is not true but the only thing you can read from her words is that the she started working on the book before the game was published. Her words don't demonstrate that they wanted to solve the Quarian Ark on MP to begin with. This don't outright deny the possibility that after the game reception upon BW request she tweaked her book to complete the story and include the scrapped DLC. It might be very well that what you are assuming is right but it's just an assumption not a certainty. Bioware also stated in their blog post that early on in development they decided the story would continue in APEX missions and novels and they designed the game around that premise.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:11:11 GMT
Bioware also stated in their blog post that early on in development they decided the story would continue in APEX missions and novels and they designed the game around that premise. Could be that what they are saying is right but it could also be that this is just corporate PR to avoid admitting the game was shafted for the bad reception. We really don't know.
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Post by Solas on Aug 20, 2017 17:13:10 GMT
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Post by haolyn on Aug 20, 2017 17:21:19 GMT
Bioware also stated in their blog post that early on in development they decided the story would continue in APEX missions and novels and they designed the game around that premise. Could be that what they are saying is right but it could also be that this is just corporate PR to avoid admitting the game was shafted for the bad reception. We really don't know. If that was the case they would have phrased the announcement differently and not mention anything about early development. The only other alternative is that they're outright lying.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:26:03 GMT
askagamedev on "What do you think of the official announcement from BioWare that there will be no singleplayer DLC or future content for Mass Effect: Andromeda?" I'm sure people wouldn't have minded that much the lack of DLCs if they didn't put so many unresolved issue in the game with the Quarian ark being the ultimate tease for future content to be released. Additionally DLCs are now the rule for AAA games, the fact MEA didn't get even one was quite strange and new for the average gamer expectations.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 20, 2017 17:39:17 GMT
askagamedev on "What do you think of the official announcement from BioWare that there will be no singleplayer DLC or future content for Mass Effect: Andromeda?" I'm sure people wouldn't have minded that much the lack of DLCs if they didn't put so many unresolved issue in the game with the Quarian ark being the ultimate tease for future content to be released. Additionally DLCs are now the rule for AAA games, the fact MEA didn't get even one was quite strange and new for the average gamer expectations. Maybe they are trying to change the rules, to try and force people to buy the books/comics and play MP (microtransactions) if they want to see how the story goes.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Aug 20, 2017 17:40:06 GMT
askagamedev on "What do you think of the official announcement from BioWare that there will be no singleplayer DLC or future content for Mass Effect: Andromeda?" I'm sure people wouldn't have minded that much the lack of DLCs if they didn't put so many unresolved issue in the game with the Quarian ark being the ultimate tease for future content to be released. Additionally DLCs are now the rule for AAA games, the fact MEA didn't get even one was quite strange and new for the average gamer expectations. No gotta say i'd find it incredibly shoddy even without the massive dangling DLC bait they put in. When DA2(which i love but which had if anything a worse reception) can get 2 DLC's, the unwillingness to produce any to wrap up MEA is pretty galling. As you say putting doubt in gamers minds about whether bioware will be gracious enough to produce any dlcs for future games seems a strange marketing tactic.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 20, 2017 17:40:09 GMT
Could be that what they are saying is right but it could also be that this is just corporate PR to avoid admitting the game was shafted for the bad reception. We really don't know. If that was the case they would have phrased the announcement differently and not mention anything about early development. The only other alternative is that they're outright lying. Yeah it was more that they were stretching themselves thin with DA4 and Anthem rather than reception.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:42:51 GMT
I'm sure people wouldn't have minded that much the lack of DLCs if they didn't put so many unresolved issue in the game with the Quarian ark being the ultimate tease for future content to be released. Additionally DLCs are now the rule for AAA games, the fact MEA didn't get even one was quite strange and new for the average gamer expectations. Maybe they are trying to change the rules, to try and force people to buy the books/comics and play MP (microtransactions) if they want to see how the story goes. I can't speak for the others but with me their new rules will backfire royally. I don't spend a single dime on MP, don't like comics and usually the books I like to read are of a different sort. I would like to game my games....strange isn't it?
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haolyn
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Post by haolyn on Aug 20, 2017 18:04:05 GMT
I still remember a time when the notion of DLC would anger people, who argued they were deliberately being sold an unfinished game. Heck I'm still that person who strongly dislikes story-based DLC as I think it pretty much kills any game's narrative where half the people are playing a different story than the other half, especially when going into sequels (see: Arrival).
No one asked for DLC for Mass Effect in the first place, but we still got it, because that's what the industry was doing.
Now DLC is so ubiquitous that it's become the norm, and people not only expect it, but as demonstrated here they feel like they are owed additional story content in single player form and anything other than that is a betrayal.
Similarly, multiplayer is now becoming the norm, and Bioware seem to have always followed the norm when it comes to the kinds of games they make. Adding multiplayer to DAI, deciding to focus on the multiplayer aspect of MEA, and deciding to develop an entirely new game only in multiplayer all point to this being the direction they are going in, regardless of what their core audience wants.
Besides, despite the reviews and the passionate fans, Bioware games have never been anywhere near as profitable as other, less critically acclaimed games. Many of those are now multiplayer games. Single player DLC costs a lot to make. Multiplayer maps and packs cost far less. The math here is pretty clear.
No one asked for multiplayer in Mass Effect, but we are still getting it, because that's what the industry is doing.
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Post by traks on Aug 20, 2017 18:05:26 GMT
.......N7....... @stingtowwe
with @caseydhudson back in #Bioware Believe me.. its not the last thing we have seen of #masseffect they will be back with a vengenace.
Casey Hudson @caseydhudson Yes! I love #MassEffect too much to not want to work on it again in the future. Thanks for the support - it means everything to our team. Sounds good. It'll probably take some time until we hear about future plans, but at least it sounds like Casey Hudson wants to continue Mass Effect.
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Post by DoctorFox on Aug 20, 2017 18:10:34 GMT
.......N7....... @stingtowwe
with @caseydhudson back in #Bioware Believe me.. its not the last thing we have seen of #masseffect they will be back with a vengenace.
Casey Hudson @caseydhudson Yes! I love #MassEffect too much to not want to work on it again in the future. Thanks for the support - it means everything to our team. Sounds good. It'll probably take some time until we hear about future plans, but at least it sounds like Casey Hudson wants to continue Mass Effect. I want to believe but i'm not sure it can happen now. Bioware could be in for another backlash because they have lost the trust of too many fans. It may well adversely affect Anthem's sales when the game releases. If no one trusts Bioware and their new game doesn't sell well, EA will absolutely obliterate their main studio just like they have done to the Montreal one. Then there won't be a team to create a new Mass Effect game.
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Post by mattjamho on Aug 20, 2017 18:16:14 GMT
Sad, but not unexpected.
The silver lining? Remember when DA2 cancelled its final DLC to start work sooner on DAI? Hopefully they've learned a LOT from Andromeda, put it too good use, and get cracking on the next Mass Effect game.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 20, 2017 18:24:50 GMT
Sad, but not unexpected. The silver lining? Remember when DA2 cancelled its final DLC to start work sooner on DAI? Hopefully they've learned a LOT from Andromeda, put it too good use, and get cracking on the next Mass Effect game. I suspect the "next Mass Effect game" is Anthem...
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Post by sil on Aug 20, 2017 19:09:21 GMT
Sad, but not unexpected. The silver lining? Remember when DA2 cancelled its final DLC to start work sooner on DAI? Hopefully they've learned a LOT from Andromeda, put it too good use, and get cracking on the next Mass Effect game. I suspect the "next Mass Effect game" is Anthem... As in Anthem is actually Mass Effect, or that Anthem is replacing Mass Effect?
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 20, 2017 19:23:17 GMT
.......N7....... @stingtowwe
with @caseydhudson back in #Bioware Believe me.. its not the last thing we have seen of #masseffect they will be back with a vengenace.
Casey Hudson @caseydhudson Yes! I love #MassEffect too much to not want to work on it again in the future. Thanks for the support - it means everything to our team. Jo Berry @joanna_Berry It really does. Thank you all 💙 Momiji Mii @momijimii I personally love the game, and was so surprised by the negativity. Love your work on Suvi, Cora and Kallo, etc btw! Jo Berry @joanna_BerryThank you so much! Can't take credit for Suvi--but I had fun writing Cora and Kallo (and other folks). Glad you enjoyed MEA 🙂 Momiji Mii @momijimii Oops! I always think of Suvi and Kallo together. Btw, my current Ryder had to turn down Cora today, heartbreaking scene! 😢 Wonderful writing, acting and cinematography in the whole scene! Jo Berry @joanna_Berry The scene on Eos? Thanks. I liked how that scene came together (though I felt bad for writing it...) @julesvoices & @taylorson were great. Tom Taylorson @taylorsonOne of my favorites to work on. Depending upon which path we were recording, it was either "oh that's sweet" or "ooo harsh " 😁
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Post by Iakus on Aug 20, 2017 19:27:19 GMT
I suspect the "next Mass Effect game" is Anthem... As in Anthem is actually Mass Effect, or that Anthem is replacing Mass Effect? The latter
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Post by sil on Aug 20, 2017 19:28:21 GMT
As in Anthem is actually Mass Effect, or that Anthem is replacing Mass Effect? The latter Yeah, I agree.
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Post by SwobyJ on Aug 20, 2017 19:56:49 GMT
I still remember a time when the notion of DLC would anger people, who argued they were deliberately being sold an unfinished game. Heck I'm still that person who strongly dislikes story-based DLC as I think it pretty much kills any game's narrative where half the people are playing a different story than the other half, especially when going into sequels (see: Arrival). No one asked for DLC for Mass Effect in the first place, but we still got it, because that's what the industry was doing. Now DLC is so ubiquitous that it's become the norm, and people not only expect it, but as demonstrated here they feel like they are owed additional story content in single player form and anything other than that is a betrayal. Similarly, multiplayer is now becoming the norm, and Bioware seem to have always followed the norm when it comes to the kinds of games they make. Adding multiplayer to DAI, deciding to focus on the multiplayer aspect of MEA, and deciding to develop an entirely new game only in multiplayer all point to this being the direction they are going in, regardless of what their core audience wants. Besides, despite the reviews and the passionate fans, Bioware games have never been anywhere near as profitable as other, less critically acclaimed games. Many of those are now multiplayer games. Single player DLC costs a lot to make. Multiplayer maps and packs cost far less. The math here is pretty clear. No one asked for multiplayer in Mass Effect, but we are still getting it, because that's what the industry is doing. Looks like there's going to be space in the market for what Mass Effect covers (space opera shooter RPG with dialogue focus)... or rather, covered?
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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Aug 20, 2017 19:58:31 GMT
Now DLC is so ubiquitous that it's become the norm, and people not only expect it, but as demonstrated here they feel like they are owed additional story content in single player form and anything other than that is a betrayal. We're not just talking about the Quarian Ark, but it's somewhat of a focus because it was largely teased and it was a post-game content and we thought it would be the first DLC for Andromeda. Have a story and finish it in game, even if you have to charge us for DLC. It's somewhat different from the old days, sure, but you're still puting all those stories in-game. To put it into a different media, like books and comics is something to be frowned upon, since it is a conclusion of all the Quarian Ark events that were teased A LOT in-game. See the Original Trilogy for example. The books expanded Mass Effect for us, introduced us to new plot and characters, while making some references to the game trilogy. You didn't need one to understand the other. Grayson, Sanders, the whole Ascension Project being sabotaged by Cerberus wasn't that important in the second and third game, and it was only mentioned. Another example, Star Wars. You don't need the Expanded Universe to understand the whole plot of the movies. And the plot was introduced, constructed and concluded in the movie saga, not needing other sources to complement it. What Bioware is doing is basically spreading one story and its conclusion to different kind of sources. Want to tell a story about a lost Ark? Fine. But don't mention in-game to be solved later in the future by a book that many won't read. It feels like they're saying "Buy it or you won't get the conclusion to it"
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Post by Andrew Waples on Aug 20, 2017 20:07:34 GMT
Now DLC is so ubiquitous that it's become the norm, and people not only expect it, but as demonstrated here they feel like they are owed additional story content in single player form and anything other than that is a betrayal. We're not just talking about the Quarian Ark, but it's somewhat of a focus because it was largely teased and it was a post-game content and we thought it would be the first DLC for Andromeda. Have a story and finish it in game, even if you have to charge us for DLC. It's somewhat different from the old days, sure, but you're still puting all those stories in-game. To put it into a different media, like books and comics is something to be frowned upon, since it is a conclusion of all the Quarian Ark events that were teased A LOT in-game. See the Original Trilogy for example. The books expanded Mass Effect for us, introduced us to new plot and characters, while making some references to the game trilogy. You didn't need one to understand the other. Grayson, Sanders, the whole Ascension Project being sabotaged by Cerberus wasn't that important in the second and third game, and it was only mentioned. Another example, Star Wars. You don't need the Expanded Universe to understand the whole plot of the movies. And the plot was introduced, constructed and concluded in the movie saga, not needing other sources to complement it. What Bioware is doing is basically spreading one story and its conclusion to different kind of sources. Want to tell a story about a lost Ark? Fine. But don't mention in-game to be solved later in the future by a book that many won't read. It feels like they're saying "Buy it or you won't get the conclusion to it"Well, you needed to have watched ANH to have Rouge One have any impact. I'm somewhat tempted to let the Internet spoil it for me.
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