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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 9:44:21 GMT
A publishing company can only meaningfully judge on sales (and market intelligence). How are they to know if someone didn't buy a game because they took a 'principled stand' or whether they wanted more multiplayer?They can only make something they hope people will buy and see if it does well. If it doesn't, they may adjust their next product (or even the one after that) but none of this is fast. Well as you said if enough people take this principled stand they'll see sales dropping on those games that are focused on MP, secondly we are lucky to have social media to tell them why (hopefully) many gamers decided to pass on this and that while being fans of the company, they will not blindly follow this new trend. You are right to say that companies cares only for profit however this further prove the point that indeed we consumers have the power to send a message that the treatment MEA got was unbearable and that one should not let it slide. Ultimately we like to criticize companies for their shady practices like D1 DLCs, season passes, sub-par releases and other issues that are rotting the industry but the hard truth is that we are solely to blame because we keep buying their products despite previous bad experiences because we forgive and forget way too fast, because we keep preordering and giving them our money in advance before the game is even finished. If you give the money immediately which incentives the devs have to finish and create a quality products? If we get poor releases I blame partly to people that give their money way too early and way too fast through preorders. If BW will produce in the future more and more co-op MP oriented games is because we SP gamers didn't show restraint and discipline to send a clear message to EA. I'll go as far as saying that if you want the wellbeing of DA and ME to return as deep single player experiences you should NOT encourage EA to make more games like Anthem. You do that by holding your money.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Aug 23, 2017 10:14:44 GMT
The problem the BW fanbase & by extension BW face now, is Anthem. See, if it is a failure, then EA could (& most likely will) see this as another one of BW headline failures, something that has happened with pretty much all of the games in some way since BW became part of EA. ME2 - Despite being now seen as possibly the best in the franchise, was hit for having too much in common with Gears of War, particularly the linear combat style (at least if my memory serves, I wasn't around BSN at the time & am trying to remember people's old posts). DA:2 - Rushed development, reused assets over & over & a lukewarm reception over all, for a lot of people, the weakest entry into the franchise. ME:3 - Endings DA:I - While it won numerous GotY awards, it had lackluster storytelling & a scooby-doo type villain. ME:A - There's been enough in the media for me to not recap it here & now.
So if Anthem bombs, EA might well pull the plug on BW, as they keep ballsing-up in the eyes of the media & public & as something I've said to the guys I work with about our company, companies live & die by their reputation. On the other hand, if Anthem is a runaway success, then this model will be used for future games made by BW. So my thoughts would be this, for Anthem to do ok, make it's money back, a little bit of profit, this will tell EA that BW's rep isn't mud, but gamers of that particular sicker prefer something more.
Of course, most of Anthem's info is still under wraps, BW could have been smart & gone the Borderlands route, a full story that can be played with friends at any time & also leave you with a world to explore, we don't know yet.
So I'm going to be watching the Anthem reveal closely, at the mo, it doesn't appeal to me & the only thing that is making me look at the game is the Bioware sticker on there.
Ok, I think I've said enough on this matter
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 23, 2017 10:26:42 GMT
There is this "cherry-picking" for when people only look at the good stuff.
Is there an equivalent idiom for when people only pick out the bad stuff?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Aug 23, 2017 11:54:07 GMT
Seriously it's like Bioware is insulting the people who liked ME: A. Never mind the fact that these fans have been defending them from the detractors. I'm not surprised. This situation made it clear that the days of them seeing fans as anything more than a number are gone. Indeed in the words of ME it looks like Bioware have been successfully indoctrinated by the looks of it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 13:00:06 GMT
There is this " cherry-picking" for when people only look at the good stuff. Is there an equivalent idiom for when people only pick out the bad stuff? Nose-picking.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 23, 2017 13:19:36 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor
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Post by traks on Aug 23, 2017 13:30:25 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor Now that sounds promising. Funny side note: I recently used the phrasing "they should've been more careful" when discussing the development of MEA, so it's reassuring to hear the same word choice being used now by an EA executive.
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Post by sil on Aug 23, 2017 13:33:44 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor Bring it back with a Quarian Ark DLC. That's what we want. What we need. And then follow it with a sequel in a couple of years.
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Post by traks on Aug 23, 2017 13:37:16 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor Bring it back with a Quarian Ark DLC. That's what we want. What we need. And then follow it with a sequel in a couple of years. That train is out of town and we have to let it go. Now it's about coming back with a bang - and IMO about not waiting too long to come up with a plan for the future.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 14:09:21 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor At the very least, we know there is still a Mass Effect team. Overall, that's a positive statement and pretty much confirms the franchise isn't stone cold dead. Although I worry that EA's definition of "relevant" may mean multiplayer. And I doubt that the "fresh, exciting place" is going to be Andromeda. Still, I'm willing to wait for a while if it means they work out how to do it properly.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 23, 2017 14:11:07 GMT
My take from that response is that EA/Bioware hasn't given up on Mass Effect.
However, it sounds like they might be reconsidering the Andromeda direction.
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Post by kettbehemoth on Aug 23, 2017 14:14:42 GMT
'sup peeps!
I found some stuff on the personal Twits of Benoit the MEA level designer. Wishin him teh best i fhe's moving on as it sounds like.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 23, 2017 14:31:33 GMT
Unlikely. Bioware is so far the only studio that used to create quality, story-driven games for EA. I also I wouldn't wish failure for Anthem, as it may be a cash cow that will fund other, more ambitious (in terms of premise) projects. Well frankly Anthem is a showing that their priorities changed from quality story-driven games to shooters because it's EA. I really don't care about this BW if their Destiny is to produce MP focused games then it's better they fail. I certainly will not support MP focused games and EA ruining gaming studios to force them creating more of the same. I might be a fan of past BW games but I certainly will not support the cash cow. I reward deep and polished SP experiences where the customers are valued and you don't get to abandon the game a couple of months after its release. No I don't give a damn about EA considering unprofitable, I'll make my little stand on this and punish EA for not valuing SP games as they should. Not going to change anything in the big picture but at least I feel better with my conscience. I wished many self-proclaimed SP gamers would take a principled stance on this so that we could make our voice heard through our wallets. ...You seem to know a lot more about Anthem than the average consumer. How do you know it's just a shooter? If we didn't know about the details (and we don't yet know details about Anthem), ME would be one as well. Also - both DA and most ME have been produced under EA. Both were/are 'cash cows' as well.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 23, 2017 14:40:26 GMT
There is this " cherry-picking" for when people only look at the good stuff. Is there an equivalent idiom for when people only pick out the bad stuff? Confirmation bias. For both picking out good or bad.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 23, 2017 14:45:15 GMT
There is this " cherry-picking" for when people only look at the good stuff. Is there an equivalent idiom for when people only pick out the bad stuff? Confirmation bias. For both picking out good or bad. Ye, that goes along - I was thinking of a less scientific idiomatic expression, tho.
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Post by Solas on Aug 23, 2017 14:54:43 GMT
'sup peeps! I found some stuff on the personal Twits of Benoit the MEA level designer. Wishin him teh best i fhe's moving on as it sounds like. thats so shit. poor dude
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Post by OrbitalWings on Aug 23, 2017 15:03:17 GMT
Very encouraging that the EA Executive Vice President 'gets' what happened with the game - didn't deserve the sheer level of negativity it got, definitely released with unacceptable issues, but play it today and it's in a really good state - and pretty much confirmed the franchise isn't dead.
Just a shame it does seem the Andromeda story is over - I really worry about what hoops they'll have to jump through in future to make whatever new take on Mass Effect they produce different from both the original trilogy AND Andromeda.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Aug 23, 2017 15:37:48 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor That last bit, " we don't know yet, but we will" sounds and awful lot like "when we can, we will" and we all know how that turned out...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 15:51:57 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor That last bit, " we don't know yet, but we will" sounds and awful lot like "when we can, we will" and we all know how that turned out... They should apply to patent that phrase. Maybe it will come handy in the future.
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 23, 2017 15:51:57 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor That last bit, " we don't know yet, but we will" sounds and awful lot like "when we can, we will" and we all know how that turned out... I think it is honest though in the sense that they know they are going to do "something", they just aren't sure what. Go to the Bioware store, I'd say 70% is Mass Effect related merchandise. They are still taking deposits for a "Thane" statue...a character that hasn't been around for over 5 years. The franchise, while beaten up a bit, has "legs", they just need to know where to let it run.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 16:02:46 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor Interesting excerpt thanks for sharing! The bolded part though seems to appear like they probably won't continue on Andromeda. It's a speculation on my part but the word fresh kind make me feel they want to abandon the story that was told to offer either a different perspective on Andromeda or even a return to the MW. Though it seems that Ryder story won't continue. It seems like they want to restart from scratch again. We will see in the future.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 23, 2017 16:04:18 GMT
That last bit, " we don't know yet, but we will" sounds and awful lot like "when we can, we will" and we all know how that turned out... I think it is honest though in the sense that they know they are going to do "something", they just aren't sure what. Go to the Bioware store, I'd say 70% is Mass Effect related merchandise. They are still taking deposits for a "Thane" statue...a character that hasn't been around for over 5 years. The franchise, while beaten up a bit, has "legs", they just need to know where to let it run. Well then, I think the only thing we can do is try and let them figure it out and see what comes out of it. TBH, I was never much into ME (yet, maybe), but I heard enough about controversy with ME3 ending that I thought it was ballsy that they tried to restart the franchise with Andromeda. Even if not a complete failure (I still have to be amused that even with portion of player community determined to hang dogs on BW, it is considered a failure if they release a game that is only fine and not superb) the gambit didn't pay off and now it's time for re-calibrations.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 23, 2017 16:11:13 GMT
Patrick Söderlund (EA's Executive Vice President) interview with GameReactor Interesting excerpt thanks for sharing! The bolded part though seems to appear like they probably won't continue on Andromeda. It's a speculation on my part but the word fresh kind make me feel they want to abandon the story that was told to offer either a different perspective on Andromeda or even a return to the MW. Though it seems that Ryder story won't continue. It seems like they want to restart from scratch again. We will see in the future. You never know, it could be a jump ahead a century or two into Andromeda's future when the colonization effort is much better established. Either way, I doubt we'll see a direct continuation of Ryder's story.
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 23, 2017 16:14:58 GMT
I think it is honest though in the sense that they know they are going to do "something", they just aren't sure what. Go to the Bioware store, I'd say 70% is Mass Effect related merchandise. They are still taking deposits for a "Thane" statue...a character that hasn't been around for over 5 years. The franchise, while beaten up a bit, has "legs", they just need to know where to let it run. Well then, I think the only thing we can do is try and let them figure it out and see what comes out of it. TBH, I was never much into ME (yet, maybe), but I heard enough about controversy with ME3 ending that I thought it was ballsy that they tried to restart the franchise with Andromeda. Even if not a complete failure (I still have to be amused that even with portion of player community determined to hang dogs on BW, it is considered a failure if they release a game that is only fine and not superb) the gambit didn't pay off and now it's time for re-calibrations. Mass Effect is my favorite gaming franchise and I lurked on the original BSN boards over the past decade so I got to see the initial reactions to all three games. The funniest one was seeing how many people talked Mass Effect 2 as "betrayal" of Mass Effect 1 and how "dumbed down" the game became only to see people, just two years later, lament why Mass Effect 3 couldn't have more like that classic, Mass Effect 2. The Mass Effect 3 ending controversy was epic...people sent cupcakes to BioWare (three different colors, same flavor), get the BBB and a PAX charity involved, just to name a few. The response, to put it lightly, was extreme. In terms of "Mass Effect Andromeda", I think it could have worked. They needed to spend another year polishing the animations and tightening the narrative but, if they gave it the effort they gave the original trilogy, they would have stuck the landing on this one. Unfortunately, the development was in disarray and it showed in what they released...and I really like the game.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 23, 2017 16:16:55 GMT
Interesting excerpt thanks for sharing! The bolded part though seems to appear like they probably won't continue on Andromeda. It's a speculation on my part but the word fresh kind make me feel they want to abandon the story that was told to offer either a different perspective on Andromeda or even a return to the MW. Though it seems that Ryder story won't continue. It seems like they want to restart from scratch again. We will see in the future. You never know, it could be a jump ahead a century or two into Andromeda's future when the colonization effort is much better established. Either way, I doubt we'll see a direct continuation of Ryder's story. So running away instead of trying to fix the problem?
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