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Post by river82 on Jun 23, 2018 22:24:48 GMT
Milbo is an ignorant twat when it came to “precedent.” Very convenient he forgot that Fallout 3 did the same shit 3 YEARS EARLIER with Broken Steel DLC. You can tell he's not worth listening to the second he equated serious art with an industry where profits are the overwhelming motivation. "Don't change it, it's art, stay true to your vision" -> "look son, we're chasing 10 million customers. Shut the fuck up."
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Post by smilesja on Jun 23, 2018 22:55:30 GMT
Milbo is an ignorant twat when it came to “precedent.” Very convenient he forgot that Fallout 3 did the same shit 3 YEARS EARLIER with Broken Steel DLC. You can tell he's not worth listening to the second he equated serious art with an industry where profits are the overwhelming motivation. "Don't change it, it's art, stay true to your vision" -> "look son, we're chasing 10 million customers. Shut the fuck up." You can still see games as art in the industry.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 23:20:13 GMT
Milbo is an ignorant twat when it came to “precedent.” Very convenient he forgot that Fallout 3 did the same shit 3 YEARS EARLIER with Broken Steel DLC. You can tell he's not worth listening to the second he equated serious art with an industry where profits are the overwhelming motivation. "Don't change it, it's art, stay true to your vision" -> "look son, we're chasing 10 million customers. Shut the fuck up." Pretty sad state of affairs here. This type of shit he peddled is why Gamergate came out of the woodwork as far as the gaming media is concerned.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 23, 2018 23:46:36 GMT
Only when ems is below 2600. Surprised the link you gave doesn't mention that. Having ems at 2599 is far from the worst destroy ending. The worst is having ems below 1750 showing Earth being scorched
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Post by smilesja on Jun 24, 2018 1:18:23 GMT
You can tell he's not worth listening to the second he equated serious art with an industry where profits are the overwhelming motivation. "Don't change it, it's art, stay true to your vision" -> "look son, we're chasing 10 million customers. Shut the fuck up." Pretty sad state of affairs here. This type of shit he peddled is why Gamergate came out of the woodwork as far as the gaming media is concerned. And it eventually turned into a witch hunt to journalists who’s views don’t fit theirs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 1:50:11 GMT
Pretty sad state of affairs here. This type of shit he peddled is why Gamergate came out of the woodwork as far as the gaming media is concerned. And it eventually turned into a witch hunt to journalists who’s views don’t fit theirs. Uh, those journalists who were witch-hunted had it coming. Piss off your consumer-base, they will direct their wrath at you. Basic life-lessons those people have not learned.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 24, 2018 3:00:16 GMT
And it eventually turned into a witch hunt to journalists who’s views don’t fit theirs. Uh, those journalists who were witch-hunted had it coming. Piss off your consumer-base, they will direct their wrath at you. Basic life-lessons those people have not learned. Maybe at the beginning but not now.
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Twitter Guru
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 26, 2018 4:35:36 GMT
Michael Gamble @gamblemike I know we’re talkin’ about Anthem...but, I just wanted to say. I appreciate all of the mentions about MEA. Both the criticisms and the praise. We learned a lot there (truly), but it brings me great joy to hear how many of you connected with it deeply. ❤️
[HASH]MET
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jun 26, 2018 6:40:15 GMT
Michael Gamble @gamblemike
I know we’re talkin’ about Anthem...but, I just wanted to say. I appreciate all of the mentions about MEA. Both the criticisms and the praise. We learned a lot there (truly), but it brings me great joy to hear how many of you connected with it deeply. ❤️ At this moment I wish I was at home playing MEA instead of playing this *NDA* at work.. I really connected more deeply by playing it more now on this 2nd trip. Theres so much good in it, at least 87,5% and the atmosphere I'm not sure but I feel like I'm hearing new music in many places, on 1.10 version. Maybe the one I played last year had audiobugs left...
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Post by sil on Jun 26, 2018 8:40:33 GMT
Michael Gamble @gamblemike
I know we’re talkin’ about Anthem...but, I just wanted to say. I appreciate all of the mentions about MEA. Both the criticisms and the praise. We learned a lot there (truly), but it brings me great joy to hear how many of you connected with it deeply. ❤️ [HASH]MET Now just go ahead and make that dlc
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Jun 26, 2018 18:07:11 GMT
Michael Gamble @gamblemike
I know we’re talkin’ about Anthem...but, I just wanted to say. I appreciate all of the mentions about MEA. Both the criticisms and the praise. We learned a lot there (truly), but it brings me great joy to hear how many of you connected with it deeply. ❤️ [HASH]MET Now just go ahead and make that dlc fat.gfycat.com/InsistentInnocentDunnart.gif
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Post by sil on Jun 26, 2018 18:30:51 GMT
True... or is it? Pinnacle Station came out nearly two years after ME1. So you never know (but its highly unlikely!)
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Post by dazk on Jun 27, 2018 0:05:30 GMT
Michael Gamble @gamblemike
I know we’re talkin’ about Anthem...but, I just wanted to say. I appreciate all of the mentions about MEA. Both the criticisms and the praise. We learned a lot there (truly), but it brings me great joy to hear how many of you connected with it deeply. ❤️ At this moment I wish I was at home playing MEA instead of playing this *NDA* at work.. I really connected more deeply by playing it more now on this 2nd trip. Theres so much good in it, at least 87,5% and the atmosphere I'm not sure but I feel like I'm hearing new music in many places, on 1.10 version. Maybe the one I played last year had audiobugs left... I agree repeat PT's have given me a better feel for the game and understanding of it and even on PT 14th I am not bored and still finding stuff I have not noticed before. I also swear since half way through my last PT I have been hearing far more ambient NPC conversations than ever before and yes the music seems to have become more prominent especially in combat. Yet I have changed no settings!!!!
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Post by corsair on Jun 27, 2018 0:30:58 GMT
Michael Gamble @gamblemike
I know we’re talkin’ about Anthem...but, I just wanted to say. I appreciate all of the mentions about MEA. Both the criticisms and the praise. We learned a lot there (truly), but it brings me great joy to hear how many of you connected with it deeply. ❤️ [HASH]MET It would be great if they did a standalone expansion like Dishonored: Death of the Outsider.
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Post by sil on Jun 27, 2018 0:33:53 GMT
Michael Gamble @gamblemike
I know we’re talkin’ about Anthem...but, I just wanted to say. I appreciate all of the mentions about MEA. Both the criticisms and the praise. We learned a lot there (truly), but it brings me great joy to hear how many of you connected with it deeply. ❤️ [HASH]MET It would be great if they did a standalone expansion like Dishonored: Death of the Outsider. I think that would be the best way to go. A stand alone story that's more linear in scope (in terms of missions and planets)
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Jun 27, 2018 13:57:55 GMT
True... or is it? Pinnacle Station came out nearly two years after ME1. So you never know (but its highly unlikely!) Hmm, let's wait and see then..... It's nice to see them know there are people that like the game, and honestly i would love to see a continuation.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2018 14:45:36 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah
I’m going to regret this in half an hour but let’s talk “did MEA get a fair shake”
First off, the question was not “is MEA secretly a great game and did mean Nintendo make us fail?” MEA is a deeply flawed game. Especially at launch.
But the review environment was crowded. Nier, Nioh, Horizon, and Zelda all launched in MEAs window. Each does something better than MEA (again, a flawed game)
As a result, even systems that are pretty decent get scrutinized against superiorly implemented ones. Does launching in a different window turn 72% into 90? Certainly not. 72 into 77/78? Maybe.
Does that affect sales? Some. But word of mouth matters so much these days.
And here’s the thing. That’s the nature of the industry. You don’t have full control over when you launch and no control over when others do. DAI benefited by how tough a year 2014 turned out to be for games
You launch the best game you can. MEA has a lot of problems and got lapped by genuinely better games.
[HASH]MET
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2018 14:50:45 GMT
Kevin @themoralskepticWhat I tell people who ask me is, "Andromeda is a good sci-fi RPG, but it isn't a good Mass Effect game." I think a mistake was made w/ early access to a game that wasn't ready for it, and this "poisoned the well" for reviews. Conspiracy theorist in me suspects EA meddling. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahI certainly think it was a mistake to have the review embargo lift AFTER the early access hit DmtryArcane @jameslindner6Would you agree that, even disregarding the animation errors, that the game still had problems? Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahYes Lycis @justlycisYeah if you would actually care about word of mouth, Bioware would have delayed ME:A and fixed the most concerning issues atleast. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahSometimes that isn’t an option
Alelo🏍️👌 @alelo the review environment was not a prob, the hype was there, the reviews were there - the probs were: people of the team, the story (esp. characters), the gameplay - the game was a bomb looks wise and had potential - but it had no replay-value and the story had no depth
it was kinda the opposite of DA2 - DA2 lacked in environment but had quiet a nice story and characters - it was fun to replay too
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah
I agree that the flaws of MEA and DA2 are kind of opposites. They are interesting to compare to each other David Burns @davewburns @biomarkdarrah The Kotaku article put a lot of the blame on engine, and a scope that was too ambitious. Any thoughts on that?
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah It was too big
[HASH]MET
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Post by samhain444 on Jun 27, 2018 15:42:55 GMT
Mark Darrah is the F'n man...putting himself out there and giving straight answers to what he can.
The thing that stood out for me:
"You don’t have full control over when you launch" = EA wanted this released 2016 Q4, regardless of its state.
Further confirmed by this:
"Lycis @justlycis Yeah if you would actually care about word of mouth, Bioware would have delayed ME:A and fixed the most concerning issues atleast.
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah Sometimes that isn’t an option"
We also know EA wanted a new Dragon Age game and wanted it out in 14 months.
EA has obviously given BioWare the opportunity to make games it wouldn't otherwise be able to like "Mass Effect 2" and "Anthem" but, with that, only BioWare has to deal with the fallout of releases like "DA2" and "ME:A" because, to EA, it's just another game in their schedule of releases.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 27, 2018 15:59:31 GMT
Mark Darrah is the F'n man...putting himself out there and giving straight answers to what he can. The thing that stood out for me: "You don’t have full control over when you launch" = EA wanted this released 2016 Q4, regardless of its state. Further confirmed by this: "Lycis @justlycis Yeah if you would actually care about word of mouth, Bioware would have delayed ME:A and fixed the most concerning issues atleast. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah Sometimes that isn’t an option" We also know EA wanted a new Dragon Age game and wanted it out in 14 months. EA has obviously given BioWare the opportunity to make games it wouldn't otherwise be able to like "Mass Effect 2" and "Anthem" but, with that, only BioWare has to deal with the fallout of releases like "DA2" and "ME:A" because, to EA, it's just another game in their schedule of releases. Not necessarily EA - don't forget the longer they worked on MEA, the longer Anthem, SWTOR and even DA4 weren't getting the resources they needed either, the longer they have to delay future products. Yes MEA needed more polish for bugs, animations but the fundamental flaws weren't going to be able to fixed in 5 months, perhaps ever without completely redoing the game. Sometimes you just have to ship, as the amount of improvement you can put in, isn't going to justify the resources taken from your other projects. This is also probably a similar reason why they didn't make DLC, those resources were needed elsewhere.
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Post by sil on Jun 27, 2018 15:59:34 GMT
Kevin @themoralskepticWhat I tell people who ask me is, "Andromeda is a good sci-fi RPG, but it isn't a good Mass Effect game." I think a mistake was made w/ early access to a game that wasn't ready for it, and this "poisoned the well" for reviews. Conspiracy theorist in me suspects EA meddling. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahI certainly think it was a mistake to have the review embargo lift AFTER the early access hit DmtryArcane @jameslindner6Would you agree that, even disregarding the animation errors, that the game still had problems? Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahYes Lycis @justlycisYeah if you would actually care about word of mouth, Bioware would have delayed ME:A and fixed the most concerning issues atleast. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahSometimes that isn’t an option
Alelo🏍️👌 @alelo the review environment was not a prob, the hype was there, the reviews were there - the probs were: people of the team, the story (esp. characters), the gameplay - the game was a bomb looks wise and had potential - but it had no replay-value and the story had no depth
it was kinda the opposite of DA2 - DA2 lacked in environment but had quiet a nice story and characters - it was fun to replay too
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah
I agree that the flaws of MEA and DA2 are kind of opposites. They are interesting to compare to each other David Burns @davewburns @biomarkdarrah The Kotaku article put a lot of the blame on engine, and a scope that was too ambitious. Any thoughts on that?
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah It was too big
[HASH]MET It'd be nice to hear why he thinks no DLC happened. We all suspect the reasons for it, but it'd be interesting to hear it from the horses mouth. Though I still say it isn't justified, whatever the reason. Bioware/EA are a huge company and should've worked to win back the fans through patches and DLC. If No Man's Sky can be still fixing its game after a disastrous launch, then Bioware/EA could've done so too. They must know that how they handled ME:A's post release will impact how ME fans and Bioware fans will respond to Anthem.
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Post by samhain444 on Jun 27, 2018 16:15:51 GMT
Mark Darrah is the F'n man...putting himself out there and giving straight answers to what he can. The thing that stood out for me: "You don’t have full control over when you launch" = EA wanted this released 2016 Q4, regardless of its state. Further confirmed by this: "Lycis @justlycis Yeah if you would actually care about word of mouth, Bioware would have delayed ME:A and fixed the most concerning issues atleast. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah Sometimes that isn’t an option" We also know EA wanted a new Dragon Age game and wanted it out in 14 months. EA has obviously given BioWare the opportunity to make games it wouldn't otherwise be able to like "Mass Effect 2" and "Anthem" but, with that, only BioWare has to deal with the fallout of releases like "DA2" and "ME:A" because, to EA, it's just another game in their schedule of releases. Not necessarily EA - don't forget the longer they worked on MEA, the longer Anthem, SWTOR and even DA4 weren't getting the resources they needed either, the longer they have to delay future products. Yes MEA needed more polish for bugs, animations but the fundamental flaws weren't going to be able to fixed in 5 months, perhaps ever without completely redoing the game. Sometimes you just have to ship, as the amount of improvement you can put in, isn't going to justify the resources taken from your other projects. This is also probably a similar reason why they didn't make DLC, those resources were needed elsewhere. While that's valid, also remember "word of mouth" due to EA Access was the source of a lot of memes and ridicule...that was EA's call...so was the release window. Not to mention they had 7 additional patches (version 1.04 - 1.10) "fixing" the game by June/July 2017. Even with the flawed issues related to narrative, if they release the game at the end of Q1 2017 (late June 2017), they have technically finished game with polished animations and literally no competition from June 13th -June 27th on XBox, PS4 or Switch. The outcome would have been better...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 27, 2018 16:24:50 GMT
Kevin @themoralskepticWhat I tell people who ask me is, "Andromeda is a good sci-fi RPG, but it isn't a good Mass Effect game." I think a mistake was made w/ early access to a game that wasn't ready for it, and this "poisoned the well" for reviews. Conspiracy theorist in me suspects EA meddling. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahI certainly think it was a mistake to have the review embargo lift AFTER the early access hit DmtryArcane @jameslindner6Would you agree that, even disregarding the animation errors, that the game still had problems? Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahYes Lycis @justlycisYeah if you would actually care about word of mouth, Bioware would have delayed ME:A and fixed the most concerning issues atleast. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahSometimes that isn’t an option
Alelo🏍️👌 @alelo the review environment was not a prob, the hype was there, the reviews were there - the probs were: people of the team, the story (esp. characters), the gameplay - the game was a bomb looks wise and had potential - but it had no replay-value and the story had no depth
it was kinda the opposite of DA2 - DA2 lacked in environment but had quiet a nice story and characters - it was fun to replay too
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah
I agree that the flaws of MEA and DA2 are kind of opposites. They are interesting to compare to each other David Burns @davewburns @biomarkdarrah The Kotaku article put a lot of the blame on engine, and a scope that was too ambitious. Any thoughts on that?
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah It was too big
[HASH]MET It'd be nice to hear why he thinks no DLC happened. We all suspect the reasons for it, but it'd be interesting to hear it from the horses mouth. Though I still say it isn't justified, whatever the reason. Bioware/EA are a huge company and should've worked to win back the fans through patches and DLC. If No Man's Sky can be still fixing its game after a disastrous launch, then Bioware/EA could've done so too. They must know that how they handled ME:A's post release will impact how ME fans and Bioware fans will respond to Anthem. Yeah, I want to know when and why they stabbed those of us who supported and liked the game in the back.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 7,936
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Top
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Post by bshep on Jun 27, 2018 16:47:15 GMT
Not necessarily EA - don't forget the longer they worked on MEA, the longer Anthem, SWTOR and even DA4 weren't getting the resources they needed either, the longer they have to delay future products. Yes MEA needed more polish for bugs, animations but the fundamental flaws weren't going to be able to fixed in 5 months, perhaps ever without completely redoing the game. Sometimes you just have to ship, as the amount of improvement you can put in, isn't going to justify the resources taken from your other projects. This is also probably a similar reason why they didn't make DLC, those resources were needed elsewhere. While that's valid, also remember "word of mouth" due to EA Access was the source of a lot of memes and ridicule...that was EA's call...so was the release window. Not to mention they had 7 additional patches (version 1.04 - 1.10) "fixing" the game by June/July 2017. Even with the flawed issues related to narrative, if they release the game at the end of Q1 2017 (late June 2017), they have technically finished game with polished animations and literally no competition from June 13th -June 27th on XBox, PS4 or Switch. The outcome would have been better... Yes. I would say 1.04 would have been a nice start for the game. If i remember right most animation bugs were fixed by that version. But then EA wouldn't be able to put the game into the profits widow from that end-start or year quarter.
Lack of DLC was probably because of what happened with SW Battlefront 2 needing people to finish the game until the release on november.
Anyway, Mark is a champion for asking/answering those questions. And it was nice to see most answers were very level headed.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 27, 2018 17:09:34 GMT
Not necessarily EA - don't forget the longer they worked on MEA, the longer Anthem, SWTOR and even DA4 weren't getting the resources they needed either, the longer they have to delay future products. Yes MEA needed more polish for bugs, animations but the fundamental flaws weren't going to be able to fixed in 5 months, perhaps ever without completely redoing the game. Sometimes you just have to ship, as the amount of improvement you can put in, isn't going to justify the resources taken from your other projects. This is also probably a similar reason why they didn't make DLC, those resources were needed elsewhere. While that's valid, also remember "word of mouth" due to EA Access was the source of a lot of memes and ridicule...that was EA's call...so was the release window. Not to mention they had 7 additional patches (version 1.04 - 1.10) "fixing" the game by June/July 2017. Even with the flawed issues related to narrative, if they release the game at the end of Q1 2017 (late June 2017), they have technically finished game with polished animations and literally no competition from June 13th -June 27th on XBox, PS4 or Switch. The outcome would have been better... Both of those decisions would need BioWare fully on board. It's not an either/or situation, both BioWare and EA had reasons to release when they did (I'll also note that most games do not release in the Summer months for a vaery important reason in that they don't sell as well, hence why most big games are released in Fall/Winter and have begun to enter late Winter/early Spring) I strongly remember people accusing BioWare of hiding MEA in it's Marketing, opening up the 10 hr demo could have been considered as a way of being open and showing the game - yes that backfired but it was only a matter of time before those animations/bugs were going to be seen anyway. As Mark Darrah notes, it's likely the not letting the embargo open until after early access that was the bad decision, proffessional reviews do tend to have less hyperbolic than fan reactions, it might have helped set the tone differently.
Seriously though, what would happen if you delay MEA? The animation/bugs might get better, but it's now put in a bad release period which will lower sales, and they are still going to be compared to the beloved games released a few months before (reviewers don't tend to forget that quickly), the flaws of the story and characterisation (I loved the game but those areas aren't as good as BioWare normally does) and the too large areas/pacing aren't going to be able to be fixed in that time. It's unlikely to make reviews that much better. You've then paid for 5 months extra development, haven't increased sales, the criticisms are going to be similar but you may avoid the animation/bug gifs - you're not really in a much better position, plus now all your other projects have to be delayed - instead of Feb 2019, Anthem comes out in Fall 2019 (they aren't going to put it in Summer) and is put in the most overcrowded time of the years. DA4 may not come out til 2021 now. And who knows how you'll be able to fit SWTOR dev in? I don't really see much upside in all honesty.
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