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Post by samhain444 on Jun 27, 2018 17:16:40 GMT
While that's valid, also remember "word of mouth" due to EA Access was the source of a lot of memes and ridicule...that was EA's call...so was the release window. Not to mention they had 7 additional patches (version 1.04 - 1.10) "fixing" the game by June/July 2017. Even with the flawed issues related to narrative, if they release the game at the end of Q1 2017 (late June 2017), they have technically finished game with polished animations and literally no competition from June 13th -June 27th on XBox, PS4 or Switch. The outcome would have been better... Both of those decisions would need BioWare fully on board. It's not an either/or situation, both BioWare and EA had reasons to release when they did (I'll also note that most games do not release in the Summer months for a vaery important reason in that they don't sell as well, hence why most big games are released in Fall/Winter and have begun to enter late Winter/early Spring) I strongly remember people accusing BioWare of hiding MEA in it's Marketing, opening up the 10 hr demo could have been considered as a way of being open and showing the game - yes that backfired but it was only a matter of time before those animations/bugs were going to be seen anyway. As Mark Darrah notes, it's likely the not letting the embargo open until after early access that was the bad decision, proffessional reviews do tend to have less hyperbolic than fan reactions, it might have helped set the tone differently.
Seriously though, what would happen if you delay MEA? The animation/bugs might get better, but it's now put in a bad release period which will lower sales, and they are still going to be compared to the beloved games released a few months before (reviewers don't tend to forget that quickly), the flaws of the story and characterisation (I loved the game but those areas aren't as good as BioWare normally does) and the too large areas/pacing aren't going to be able to be fixed in that time. It's unlikely to make reviews that much better. You've then paid for 5 months extra development, haven't increased sales, the criticisms are going to be similar but you may avoid the animation/bug gifs - you're not really in a much better position, plus now all your other projects have to be delayed - instead of Feb 2019, Anthem comes out in Fall 2019 (they aren't going to put it in Summer) and is put in the most overcrowded time of the years. DA4 may not come out til 2021 now. And who knows how you'll be able to fit SWTOR dev in? I don't really see much upside in all honesty.
The issues still got patched after release so the necessary resources dedicated to fixing the game were still used regardless of release date....whether released in March or June. Also, "Anthem" was on target for Fall 2018 release and pushed back to Feb 2019 due to Battlefield V release so nothing really changes if they decide to delay it's release. Either way, per full disclosure to investors, ME:A was financially successful and we are likely to get something from the Mass Effect universe again in the future.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 27, 2018 17:25:54 GMT
Both of those decisions would need BioWare fully on board. It's not an either/or situation, both BioWare and EA had reasons to release when they did (I'll also note that most games do not release in the Summer months for a vaery important reason in that they don't sell as well, hence why most big games are released in Fall/Winter and have begun to enter late Winter/early Spring) I strongly remember people accusing BioWare of hiding MEA in it's Marketing, opening up the 10 hr demo could have been considered as a way of being open and showing the game - yes that backfired but it was only a matter of time before those animations/bugs were going to be seen anyway. As Mark Darrah notes, it's likely the not letting the embargo open until after early access that was the bad decision, proffessional reviews do tend to have less hyperbolic than fan reactions, it might have helped set the tone differently.
Seriously though, what would happen if you delay MEA? The animation/bugs might get better, but it's now put in a bad release period which will lower sales, and they are still going to be compared to the beloved games released a few months before (reviewers don't tend to forget that quickly), the flaws of the story and characterisation (I loved the game but those areas aren't as good as BioWare normally does) and the too large areas/pacing aren't going to be able to be fixed in that time. It's unlikely to make reviews that much better. You've then paid for 5 months extra development, haven't increased sales, the criticisms are going to be similar but you may avoid the animation/bug gifs - you're not really in a much better position, plus now all your other projects have to be delayed - instead of Feb 2019, Anthem comes out in Fall 2019 (they aren't going to put it in Summer) and is put in the most overcrowded time of the years. DA4 may not come out til 2021 now. And who knows how you'll be able to fit SWTOR dev in? I don't really see much upside in all honesty.
The issues still got patched after release so the necessary resources dedicated to fixing the game were still used regardless of release date....whether released in March or June. Also, "Anthem" was on target for Fall 2018 release and pushed back to Feb 2019 due to Battlefield V release so nothing really changes if they decide to delay it's release. Either way, per full disclosure to investors, ME:A was financially successful and we are likely to get something from the Mass Effect universe again in the future. They didn't use the full production team for the 5 months (big difference in cost) and also got all the QA info releasing a game to millions of players provides. I could see them being better if they changed it a month or two, but releasing it in Summer would not be a good move - there's a difference between changing Anthem from Fall to Early Winter and changing MEA from Early Spring to Summer. Summer just isn't a good time. I'm just pointing out it's a much more complicated decision then EA made them for Q4 results - there's a lot of knock on effects to a delay and it's easy to underestimate them. And in the end it was financially sucessful so it's really hard to work out if moving it would have been the better move - I'm still firmly in the camp that MEA need to have astounding reception to help knock off the naysayers who were complaining about the game way before release. I don't think the extra months would have got the reception from critics high enough to silence that.
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Post by dazk on Jun 27, 2018 23:18:41 GMT
Alelo🏍️👌 @alelo the review environment was not a prob, the hype was there, the reviews were there - the probs were: people of the team, the story (esp. characters), the gameplay - the game was a bomb looks wise and had potential - but it had no replay-value and the story had no depth
[HASH]MET Did this guy get past the pre-release 9 hrs, I highly disagree with the no replay value. MEA is one game I have replayed more than any other except ME3 and the benefit is the combat is so flexible in terms of how you can and or want to play it that you can replay the game simply for that alone and not really pay too much attention to the story.
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Post by malgus on Jun 28, 2018 2:41:18 GMT
Mark Darrah is the F'n man...putting himself out there and giving straight answers to what he can. He has guts that's for sure, being honest in this day and age on a controversial project is very risky. As of now people are are let's say "reacting" to his answer, sure MEA had problems at release and should have been delayed (and it was the major factor) BUT the crowded months of march 2017 played into it with tons of critical darling game MEA was thrown in between. But people are reacting only on the little answer he had to give in a very short amount of time in the "123 questions", heck even with a short answer, the guy STILL asked him to shorten it up. Mark darrah was unable to elaborate on his sayings, so people are quick to judge to judge it without thinking of the fucking context. Actually that question should have never been asked for that kind of format, because that's just not something you can answer quickly without people getting upset because many media will not think about the context and want their juicy click.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 28, 2018 4:56:26 GMT
It would be great if they did a standalone expansion like Dishonored: Death of the Outsider. I think that would be the best way to go. A stand alone story that's more linear in scope (in terms of missions and planets) Absolutely my preference at this point. Perhaps carry Ryder with it, optionally. Perhaps with only story 'import' through Archives. Tell something of his/her experienced journeys if ME5 is really going to be so fresh as to not have him/her as the PC. At least with DAI, something more solid of a journey (IMO) was told in the base game, and the DLC added together into something where many to most of us can easily enough understand if the Inquisitor isn't the PC of a DA5. Yes, some of us want the Inquisitor, and some of us want duel-protag, but most of us would at least understand if the choice is made. MEA, I don't really think so. Yes, we'll technically 'get it', but it'd all cast the MEA shadow of missed opportunity. Letting us have that one last adventure can at least send things off, along with creating a development team that may be better prepared for creation of a 'MEA5'. That's how I imagine it, at least. Make it cheaper (as in less new tech, less necessary open-world design), release it within a few years from now, cheaper price to entice, use it as a more proper launching point that MEA itself (IMO) largely failed at being but still tried to exist as. Carry the team over to the next fuller thing if its a success.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 28, 2018 5:05:43 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahI’m going to regret this in half an hour but let’s talk “did MEA get a fair shake” First off, the question was not “is MEA secretly a great game and did mean Nintendo make us fail?” MEA is a deeply flawed game. Especially at launch. But the review environment was crowded. Nier, Nioh, Horizon, and Zelda all launched in MEAs window. Each does something better than MEA (again, a flawed game) As a result, even systems that are pretty decent get scrutinized against superiorly implemented ones. Does launching in a different window turn 72% into 90? Certainly not. 72 into 77/78? Maybe. Does that affect sales? Some. But word of mouth matters so much these days. And here’s the thing. That’s the nature of the industry. You don’t have full control over when you launch and no control over when others do. DAI benefited by how tough a year 2014 turned out to be for games You launch the best game you can. MEA has a lot of problems and got lapped by genuinely better games. [HASH]MET This just gave me more hope for Bioware than the last years of marketing, public relations, and deflection. "MEA is a deeply flawed game. Especially at launch." - Don't regret this. We know this. Even those that ended up loving it. "As a result, even systems that are pretty decent get scrutinized against superiorly implemented ones." - This is true. I had issues with, for example, MEA's inventory system even if it wasn't 'bad' and its bugs 'not severe' enough to hate it. Other games come with better and cleaner inventory systems and I just feel that little bit of resentment watching my partner play them. "Certainly not. 72 into 77/78? Maybe." - I agree. He even couched it properly with 'maybe' instead of a presumptuous 'yes'. "But word of mouth matters so much these days." - It does. MEA WOM was very poor. Anthem's I'd say is still currently a big range that I'll settle on 'moderate'. Dragon Age has potential to have great WOM if they do it right, providing hope for a potential Mass Effect game several years from now. There is doomsaying about Anthem being the wrecking ball to Bioware's derelict house, and Dragon Age (if not cancelled) being the sad ashes. Prove them wrong. (Even if Anthem ends up not for me, I can respect a good game, I can have hope for how the retaining RPG elements perform, and I can look towards Dragon Age positively.. I really *can*.) "DAI benefited by how tough a year 2014 turned out to be for games" - Such a relief to have this much of a suggestion of how aware they were that the GOTY 2014 would not have GOTYed other years, whether 2013 or 2015. Not that its some terrible game, but that its flaws that existed were marked and not to be ignored for the future. (I'd still have preferred some months of more patching though, and a free utter overhaul of the final section, and even 1-2 more DLC if they were great enough, heh.) This makes me feel better. Don't regret writing it.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 28, 2018 6:56:08 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahI’m going to regret this in half an hour but let’s talk “did MEA get a fair shake” First off, the question was not “is MEA secretly a great game and did mean Nintendo make us fail?” MEA is a deeply flawed game. Especially at launch. But the review environment was crowded. Nier, Nioh, Horizon, and Zelda all launched in MEAs window. Each does something better than MEA (again, a flawed game) As a result, even systems that are pretty decent get scrutinized against superiorly implemented ones. Does launching in a different window turn 72% into 90? Certainly not. 72 into 77/78? Maybe. Does that affect sales? Some. But word of mouth matters so much these days. And here’s the thing. That’s the nature of the industry. You don’t have full control over when you launch and no control over when others do. DAI benefited by how tough a year 2014 turned out to be for games You launch the best game you can. MEA has a lot of problems and got lapped by genuinely better games. [HASH]MET This just gave me more hope for Bioware than the last years of marketing, public relations, and deflection. "MEA is a deeply flawed game. Especially at launch." - Don't regret this. We know this. Even those that ended up loving it. "As a result, even systems that are pretty decent get scrutinized against superiorly implemented ones." - This is true. I had issues with, for example, MEA's inventory system even if it wasn't 'bad' and its bugs 'not severe' enough to hate it. Other games come with better and cleaner inventory systems and I just feel that little bit of resentment watching my partner play them. "Certainly not. 72 into 77/78? Maybe." - I agree. He even couched it properly with 'maybe' instead of a presumptuous 'yes'. "But word of mouth matters so much these days." - It does. MEA WOM was very poor. Anthem's I'd say is still currently a big range that I'll settle on 'moderate'. Dragon Age has potential to have great WOM if they do it right, providing hope for a potential Mass Effect game several years from now. There is doomsaying about Anthem being the wrecking ball to Bioware's derelict house, and Dragon Age (if not cancelled) being the sad ashes. Prove them wrong. (Even if Anthem ends up not for me, I can respect a good game, I can have hope for how the retaining RPG elements perform, and I can look towards Dragon Age positively.. I really *can*.) "DAI benefited by how tough a year 2014 turned out to be for games" - Such a relief to have this much of a suggestion of how aware they were that the GOTY 2014 would not have GOTYed other years, whether 2013 or 2015. Not that its some terrible game, but that its flaws that existed were marked and not to be ignored for the future. (I'd still have preferred some months of more patching though, and a free utter overhaul of the final section, and even 1-2 more DLC if they were great enough, heh.) This makes me feel better. Don't regret writing it. Or maybe DAI deserved the praise it got and the GOTY was legitimate.
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Post by river82 on Jun 28, 2018 6:59:44 GMT
This makes me feel better. Don't regret writing it. Agreed. After a while people tire of the spin, so this was a welcomed breath of fresh air. I especially like the part where he said it wasn't just the bugs and animations which were flawed in Andromeda and that the scope was too large. Both points are fairly obvious but it made me feel that in the future Bioware will have more up front discussions with the community.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 28, 2018 7:10:21 GMT
You with all of this “honesty” coming out from Mark l hope he acknowledges the passionate fans who supported ME: A despite the reception it got. I hope he doesn’t ignore them just to solely appeal to those who didn’t like the game.
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Post by bshep on Jun 28, 2018 7:23:40 GMT
I say he is doing a good job with both so far.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 28, 2018 7:30:50 GMT
I say he is doing a good job with both so far. Doesn't seem that way to me.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 28, 2018 7:53:19 GMT
But yeah ME:A fans are likely going to get abandoned.
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Post by river82 on Jun 28, 2018 8:05:36 GMT
But yeah ME:A fans are likely going to get abandoned. They were abandoned the second Montreal closed down, which effectively killed any post release extra content. And they never got any reason for the shut down, nor did they receive an explanation of when it was planned (for example if EA had planned to shut Montreal down before Andromeda released why leave their fans hanging so long for an answer on Single player DLC content? It would have been pretty obvious that none was coming. Stringing them along wasn't cool, but I don't know much about that situation because my interest in Andromeda at that point was low) Bioware's communication is horrible. That part of modern Bioware really needs improving imo.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Jun 28, 2018 14:02:35 GMT
You with all of this “honesty” coming out from Mark l hope he acknowledges the passionate fans who supported ME: A despite the reception it got. I hope he doesn’t ignore them just to solely appeal to those who didn’t like the game.That's exactly what i thought of yesterday. I think that they can have a second chance, take their time and make a good game. This way they can bring back both the people who did like/ didn't like it. But yeah ME:A fans are likely going to get abandoned. That's my fear :/
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Post by samhain444 on Jun 28, 2018 14:55:30 GMT
If you want substantive remarks in regards "Mass Effect Andromeda", you are probably going to want to track Mike Gamble or Fernando Melo's comments as Mark Darrah has only had involvement with the "Dragon Age" and "Anthem IP's". Correct me if I'm wrong on that but I believe that to be the case. Obviously, I'm sure he has an understanding of the issues the game's production faced but I don't think he'd be involved in the creation or development of a new "Mass Effect" game. If you had to "@" someone, you are probably better off doing it to Casey Hudson.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 28, 2018 17:42:40 GMT
You with all of this “honesty” coming out from Mark l hope he acknowledges the passionate fans who supported ME: A despite the reception it got. I hope he doesn’t ignore them just to solely appeal to those who didn’t like the game. I doubt this will happen. Especially from ME-related devs, they have not at all neglected acknowledgement of the fans that think its was better than its wider reputation, nor do they lack acknowledgement of its better parts. I'm sure there's ME devs that still look at or play MEA and think 'yes, we did this part and that part right, at least mostly'. However, I think its foolish if one thinks they won't be heavily reassessing many things after getting basically a '7/10' response to a AAA game. This is neigh unforgivable in some respects - not from me, but for corporate. But not necessarily the end, and I hope it isn't. I'm personally neither hopeful nor hopeless about a 'MEA2' happening. I'm insistent that they must follow up from MEA for the sake of continuity (leaving MEA behind as some 'bad memory' is a high danger and not even really accurate), but I'm unsure a next game will end up being exactly 'MEA2' in title or content. EDIT: Also, I don't understand the "" around 'honesty'. Do you think he's lying, or pandering hard? I really think he's just laying the cards down and its refreshing. Development is damn hard and I know developers are often the most critical of their creations but restrained or constrained about how much they can voice this. It doesn't mean they dislike their creations. EDIT2: Okay, sure, he's not a ME dev, but he's part of the Bioware 'family' of sorts. He knows people, he knows things, he can have opinion about it, he works with ME folk.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 28, 2018 19:06:46 GMT
Because it sounds like he is pandering to the people who disliked DAI and ME: A.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 28, 2018 19:18:12 GMT
Because it sounds like he is pandering to the people who disliked DAI and ME: A. How is he pandering to people who disliked DAI and MEA?
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 28, 2018 20:20:55 GMT
Because it sounds like he is pandering to the people who disliked DAI and ME: A. Uh... how?
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Post by Rascoth on Jun 29, 2018 20:06:02 GMT
Whelp, now I know what I'll keep humming all weekend.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 1, 2018 2:03:29 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah So reasons why we may not answer your question:
9. A new one. The question is too specific but in a way that is so off base that it is unanswerable. Example: “when you create a dwarf in Mass Effect, at what point in their origin, does their beard grow in?”
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Post by sil on Jul 1, 2018 17:22:24 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah
So reasons why we may not answer your question: 9. A new one. The question is too specific but in a way that is so off base that it is unanswerable. Example: “when you create a dwarf in Mass Effect, at what point in their origin, does their beard grow in?” [HASH]MET That's no excuse. Just say that you can't answer it because you just don't know. I, however, am more than happy to supply a host of answerable questions to you via PM as I don't use twitter.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 7,936
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7,936
bshep
We destroy them or they destroy us.
4,444
August 2016
bshep
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
MasterDassJennir
1876
376
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Post by bshep on Jul 3, 2018 19:10:33 GMT
And people still say both are dead... "It's my baby".
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