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Post by Element Zero on Feb 12, 2019 21:03:41 GMT
That list contains a large number of my favorite games. I hate breaking up the Mass Effect Trilogy, since I consider it to be one whole. Still, it was pretty easy to choose Mass Effect 2. DAO has an incredible mood and poignancy. I’ve never played anything that brings a feeling to life quite so well. Still, I love ME most of all; and ME2 was the Mass Effect at its all-around best. Meanwhile I see ME2 as Mass Effect at its all-around worst. I think there are definite strengths and weaknesses in each game. ME2 left a lot of room for improvement, but I really enjoyed it as a whole. Each of the games had things I loved about them. I feel that gameplay was best in ME3 (and later MEA). I like ME best for setting and ambience. ME2 was a nice middle ground, but also the point at which the whole thing went sideways. If I could wish the series into having taken a different path, ME2 would be unrecognizable: No Cerberus. Laser focus on solving the Reaper threat. Maybe the Reapers even arrive in ME2. Still, glaring issues and all, it was a fun game for me.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 12, 2019 21:06:30 GMT
That list contains a large number of my favorite games. I hate breaking up the Mass Effect Trilogy, since I consider it to be one whole. Still, it was pretty easy to choose Mass Effect 2. DAO has an incredible mood and poignancy. I’ve never played anything that brings a feeling to life quite so well. Still, I love ME most of all; and ME2 was the Mass Effect at its all-around best. The main reason I have DAO as #1 is because of the music especially the camp music. It's very soothing. The Warden comes back to camp after a day of fighting darkspawn, bandits, and anything else to listen to relaxing music.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 12, 2019 21:27:10 GMT
That list contains a large number of my favorite games. I hate breaking up the Mass Effect Trilogy, since I consider it to be one whole. Still, it was pretty easy to choose Mass Effect 2. DAO has an incredible mood and poignancy. I’ve never played anything that brings a feeling to life quite so well. Still, I love ME most of all; and ME2 was the Mass Effect at its all-around best. The main reason I have DAO as #1 is because of the music especially the camp music. It's very soothing. The Warden comes back to camp after a day of fighting darkspawn, bandits, and anything else to listen to relaxing music. Yeah, it’s awesome. Thanks for reminding me of this specifically. I love almost everything about DAO. I think you may have just decided my current gaming conundrum: I can replay the DA trilogy again. I had been feeling dissatisfied with all my options. I converted part of my DA collection (DAO, DA2 and DLCs) to Xbox360 after parting with my PS3. I’ll have all of those unlockables to earn again.
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Post by N7eezo on Feb 12, 2019 21:39:08 GMT
Happy we've got another life sign for Mass Effect, even if that's all there is for now. Hoping they wait for a new Mass Effect game isn't too long and we'll get a Trilogy remaster (graphic updates, bug fixes, all DLC) for the Switch and new consoles in the mean time..
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Post by dazk on Feb 12, 2019 22:00:33 GMT
The main reason I have DAO as #1 is because of the music especially the camp music. It's very soothing. The Warden comes back to camp after a day of fighting darkspawn, bandits, and anything else to listen to relaxing music. Yeah, it’s awesome. Thanks for reminding me of this specifically. I love almost everything about DAO. I think you may have just decided my current gaming conundrum: I can replay the DA trilogy again. I had been feeling dissatisfied with all my options. I converted part of my DA collection (DAO, DA2 and DLCs) to Xbox360 after parting with my PS3. I’ll have all of those unlockables to earn again. I had the same thought after reading themikefest comment as well. My last attempt at playing DAO (about a year ago) ended in rage quitting due to not being able to get the mod manager to work and some weird thing with having negative gold!!!!! I am on the fence about playing Anthem and/or The Division 2 at the moment plus I still want to replay Odyssey with NG+.
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Post by bshep on Feb 12, 2019 22:50:43 GMT
Happy we've got another life sign for Mass Effect, even if that's all there is for now. Hoping they wait for a new Mass Effect game isn't too long and we'll get a Trilogy remaster (graphic updates, bug fixes, all DLC) for the Switch and new consoles in the mean time.. I would prefer they work on new games instead of a remaster.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 12, 2019 23:03:48 GMT
IGN @ign BioWare's Casey Hudson says the developer is "definitely not done with Mass Effect." go.ign.com/gtPKZClMichael Gamble @gamblemikeWell of course not.
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 12, 2019 23:17:04 GMT
Happy we've got another life sign for Mass Effect, even if that's all there is for now. Hoping they wait for a new Mass Effect game isn't too long and we'll get a Trilogy remaster (graphic updates, bug fixes, all DLC) for the Switch and new consoles in the mean time.. I would prefer they work on new games instead of a remaster. In an ideal world, they'd outsource a ME remaster to another studio, and continue to focus on making new games at their main studios.
That said, while it is nice to hear that ME hasn't been forgotten, I don't know how they plan to juggle Anthem, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Star Wars.
Anthem is a new AAA franchise to the mix, they're down one studio, and the numbers at Edmonton are also down quite a bit from their height a few years back. Unless people are okay with waiting 8-9-ish-years between AN/DA/ME releases? Just to be able to juggle those 3 franchises in a timely fashion, they'd need to either expand the existing studios (to a hefty degree), or grow a whole new one again.
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Post by dazk on Feb 13, 2019 0:19:16 GMT
I would prefer they work on new games instead of a remaster. In an ideal world, they'd outsource a ME remaster to another studio, and continue to focus on making new games at their main studios.
That said, while it is nice to hear that ME hasn't been forgotten, I don't know how they plan to juggle Anthem, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Star Wars.
Anthem is a new AAA franchise to the mix, they're down one studio, and the numbers at Edmonton are also down quite a bit from their height a few years back. Unless people are okay with waiting 8-9-ish-years between AN/DA/ME releases? Just to be able to juggle those 3 franchises in a timely fashion, they'd need to either expand the existing studios (to a hefty degree), or grow a whole new one again.
How is Ubisofts model different that they can pump out so many different games simultaneously? I am not sure why Bioware doesn't have dedicated teams for each franchise so they can develop expertise in those franchises and also pump out more regular content. It has seemed from the media around MEA that Bioware is always "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in terms of their IP's to the detriment of all of them. MEA being the main example.
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Post by bshep on Feb 13, 2019 0:30:16 GMT
Ubisoft quality also dropped a lot when they were doing this one game every year. So i am not so sure if this is the best model for Bioware. Plus correct me if i am wrong but aren't they quite bigger than Bioware?
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 13, 2019 0:33:08 GMT
In an ideal world, they'd outsource a ME remaster to another studio, and continue to focus on making new games at their main studios.
That said, while it is nice to hear that ME hasn't been forgotten, I don't know how they plan to juggle Anthem, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Star Wars.
Anthem is a new AAA franchise to the mix, they're down one studio, and the numbers at Edmonton are also down quite a bit from their height a few years back. Unless people are okay with waiting 8-9-ish-years between AN/DA/ME releases? Just to be able to juggle those 3 franchises in a timely fashion, they'd need to either expand the existing studios (to a hefty degree), or grow a whole new one again.
How is Ubisofts model different that they can pump out so many different games simultaneously? I am not sure why Bioware doesn't have dedicated teams for each franchise so they can develop expertise in those franchises and also pump out more regular content. It has seemed from the media around MEA that Bioware is always "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in terms of their IP's to the detriment of all of them. MEA being the main example. First, bear in mind that Ubisoft is huge. They have something like ~14,000 employees. BioWare has... 600-700 I think all told. It's something like that. You can always outsource some of the work, but it gives you some idea of the difference between the two. They just don't have the numbers to develop all those games simultaneously.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 13, 2019 0:40:52 GMT
In an ideal world, they'd outsource a ME remaster to another studio, and continue to focus on making new games at their main studios.
That said, while it is nice to hear that ME hasn't been forgotten, I don't know how they plan to juggle Anthem, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Star Wars.
Anthem is a new AAA franchise to the mix, they're down one studio, and the numbers at Edmonton are also down quite a bit from their height a few years back. Unless people are okay with waiting 8-9-ish-years between AN/DA/ME releases? Just to be able to juggle those 3 franchises in a timely fashion, they'd need to either expand the existing studios (to a hefty degree), or grow a whole new one again.
How is Ubisofts model different that they can pump out so many different games simultaneously? I am not sure why Bioware doesn't have dedicated teams for each franchise so they can develop expertise in those franchises and also pump out more regular content. It has seemed from the media around MEA that Bioware is always "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in terms of their IP's to the detriment of all of them. MEA being the main example. Ubisoft has literally dozens of studios. Their big IPs like AC are headed out of a single studio, but often supported by a dozen studios. (They’ve become masters of working across time zones, which can be pretty damn tricky.) As bshep said, their annual releases were suffering from lack of innovation. The two year model is still aggressive, but more doable. Using AC as an example again, they have 3 primary AC dev teams that are supported by the worldwide Ubi team.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 13, 2019 0:41:00 GMT
In an ideal world, they'd outsource a ME remaster to another studio, and continue to focus on making new games at their main studios.
That said, while it is nice to hear that ME hasn't been forgotten, I don't know how they plan to juggle Anthem, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Star Wars.
Anthem is a new AAA franchise to the mix, they're down one studio, and the numbers at Edmonton are also down quite a bit from their height a few years back. Unless people are okay with waiting 8-9-ish-years between AN/DA/ME releases? Just to be able to juggle those 3 franchises in a timely fashion, they'd need to either expand the existing studios (to a hefty degree), or grow a whole new one again.
How is Ubisofts model different that they can pump out so many different games simultaneously? I am not sure why Bioware doesn't have dedicated teams for each franchise so they can develop expertise in those franchises and also pump out more regular content. It has seemed from the media around MEA that Bioware is always "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in terms of their IP's to the detriment of all of them. MEA being the main example. What if them creating MEA was a first step in, as you said, 'developing expertise in the franchise to pump out more regular content', only things didn't exactly go as planned? I don't imagine it's anything easy. Plus, Ubisoft is a much larger studio if compared to Bioware on its own - and while all EA game studios using exclusively Frostbite is something that has likely streamlined/hastened/made game production cheaper, I'm not entirely sure streamlining it to the point Ubisoft does it is a viable long-term goal for EA or Bioware.
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Post by dazk on Feb 13, 2019 0:51:47 GMT
Ubisoft quality also dropped a lot when they were doing this one game every year. So i am not so sure if this is the best model for Bioware. Plus correct me if i am wrong but aren't they quite bigger than Bioware? Yeah that's true but Origins and Odyssey seemed to me to address the quality issue. what's stopping them from upsizing there team, me thinks the only thing stopping that is EA from a cost perspective, but if you can deliver more "quality" product (not necessarily annually for each IP) then your return should offset the cost and bring a better more consistent revenue stream. Happy to be told it doesn't work that way.
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Post by dazk on Feb 13, 2019 0:54:48 GMT
How is Ubisofts model different that they can pump out so many different games simultaneously? I am not sure why Bioware doesn't have dedicated teams for each franchise so they can develop expertise in those franchises and also pump out more regular content. It has seemed from the media around MEA that Bioware is always "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in terms of their IP's to the detriment of all of them. MEA being the main example. First, bear in mind that Ubisoft is huge. They have something like ~14,000 employees. BioWare has... 600-700 I think all told. It's something like that. You can always outsource some of the work, but it gives you some idea of the difference between the two. They just don't have the numbers to develop all those games simultaneously. Wow never realised the size difference!!!!! I think Bioware are shooting themselves in the foot because of the long lag time between instalments. If the next ME game is 5 years away, hell I could be dead from old age by that time. Not saying they need to go to the annual release cycle that AC went down for a fair period of time but they really need to resource better and reduce the timeframes between releases in series I think.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 13, 2019 0:54:58 GMT
How is Ubisofts model different that they can pump out so many different games simultaneously? I am not sure why Bioware doesn't have dedicated teams for each franchise so they can develop expertise in those franchises and also pump out more regular content. It has seemed from the media around MEA that Bioware is always "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in terms of their IP's to the detriment of all of them. MEA being the main example. What if them creating MEA was a first step in, as you said, 'developing expertise in the franchise to pump out more regular content', only things didn't exactly go as planned? I don't imagine it's anything easy. Plus, Ubisoft is a much larger studio if compared to Bioware on its own - and while all EA game studios using exclusively Frostbite is something that has likely streamlined/hastened/made game production cheaper, I'm not entirely sure streamlining it to the point Ubisoft does it is a viable long-term goal for EA or Bioware. They were definitely looking to hand ME off to BioWare Montreal. In the end, it sounded like managerial chaos had more to do with its being merged with EA Motive than the poor reception of MEA (the chaos being causative of the game’s issues). Departed employees have talked about how hard it was to adapt Frostbite for RPGs. None of the RPG architecture existed, so they had to build those tools from scratch. It’s sad that a second chance couldn’t be extended to Montreal. In terms of games, I’m sure the next game would’ve been better than the first. It would seem that EA didn’t consider Montreal viable from a financial standpoint. I’m distracted, at the moment, and don’t want to derail the Twitter thread (it’s so easy to do). I hope for and look forward to the day we get another ME, Milky Way or Andromeda.
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Post by dazk on Feb 13, 2019 0:57:01 GMT
How is Ubisofts model different that they can pump out so many different games simultaneously? I am not sure why Bioware doesn't have dedicated teams for each franchise so they can develop expertise in those franchises and also pump out more regular content. It has seemed from the media around MEA that Bioware is always "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in terms of their IP's to the detriment of all of them. MEA being the main example. Ubisoft has literally dozens of studios. Their big IPs like AC are headed out of a single studio, but often supported by a dozen studios. (They’ve become masters of working across time zones, which can be pretty damn tricky.) As bshep said, their annual releases were suffering from lack of innovation. The two year model is still aggressive, but more doable. Using AC as an example again, they have 3 primary AC dev teams that are supported by the worldwide Ubi team. I just think they need to up size and start releasing on a 2-3 year cycle for their franchises, MEA is now over a year in the rear view mirror and we may not see another one for 5 years. That's a long time and hard for some people to stay invested that long and for us oldies just being alive to see the next one may be a challenge let alone playing the damn game.
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Post by dazk on Feb 13, 2019 0:59:33 GMT
How is Ubisofts model different that they can pump out so many different games simultaneously? I am not sure why Bioware doesn't have dedicated teams for each franchise so they can develop expertise in those franchises and also pump out more regular content. It has seemed from the media around MEA that Bioware is always "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in terms of their IP's to the detriment of all of them. MEA being the main example. What if them creating MEA was a first step in, as you said, 'developing expertise in the franchise to pump out more regular content', only things didn't exactly go as planned? I don't imagine it's anything easy. Plus, Ubisoft is a much larger studio if compared to Bioware on its own - and while all EA game studios using exclusively Frostbite is something that has likely streamlined/hastened/made game production cheaper, I'm not entirely sure streamlining it to the point Ubisoft does it is a viable long-term goal for EA or Bioware. Maybe (re MEA) but then staff were poached to work on Anthem and we saw the results in MEA at release. I just think either EA needs to give them more resources and or create a better model so customers aren't forced to wait 5+ years for a sequel to a game.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 13, 2019 1:10:39 GMT
What if them creating MEA was a first step in, as you said, 'developing expertise in the franchise to pump out more regular content', only things didn't exactly go as planned? I don't imagine it's anything easy. Plus, Ubisoft is a much larger studio if compared to Bioware on its own - and while all EA game studios using exclusively Frostbite is something that has likely streamlined/hastened/made game production cheaper, I'm not entirely sure streamlining it to the point Ubisoft does it is a viable long-term goal for EA or Bioware. Maybe (re MEA) but then staff were poached to work on Anthem and we saw the results in MEA at release. I just think either EA needs to give them more resources and or create a better model so customers aren't forced to wait 5+ years for a sequel to a game. Um... AFAIK Anthem was earlier in production than MEA and then Anthem and DA team were pushed to work on it once things didn't go as planned. So if there was an additional title Bioware has tried to squeeze in between releases they are mostly focused on now, it was Andromeda (that was actually not a direct sequel to a trilogy that got wrapped up).
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Post by dazk on Feb 13, 2019 1:20:28 GMT
Maybe (re MEA) but then staff were poached to work on Anthem and we saw the results in MEA at release. I just think either EA needs to give them more resources and or create a better model so customers aren't forced to wait 5+ years for a sequel to a game. Um... AFAIK Anthem was earlier in production than MEA and then Anthem and DA team were pushed to work on it once things didn't go as planned. So if there was an additional title Bioware has tried to squeeze in between releases they are mostly focused on now, it was Andromeda (that was actually not a direct sequel to a trilogy that got wrapped up). Yes Anthem was in production earlier but I am pretty sure that it was established that MEA had resources moved from it to Anthem because Anthem was falling behind schedule. This Kotaku article talks about it approximately mid-point: www.kotaku.com.au/2017/12/the-story-behindmass-effect-andromedas-troubled-five-year-development/
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Feb 13, 2019 1:49:00 GMT
Not going to lie, it annoys me how they let the development with procedural worlds drag itself for several years before deciding to finally pull the plug. Did they really needed three years to see that wasn't going to work? Leaving the actual released game less time than ME3 to be completed.
Anyway, with numbers like those Bioware has no way to follow the same model as ubisoft.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 13, 2019 1:50:33 GMT
Um... AFAIK Anthem was earlier in production than MEA and then Anthem and DA team were pushed to work on it once things didn't go as planned. So if there was an additional title Bioware has tried to squeeze in between releases they are mostly focused on now, it was Andromeda (that was actually not a direct sequel to a trilogy that got wrapped up). Yes Anthem was in production earlier but I am pretty sure that it was established that MEA had resources moved from it to Anthem because Anthem was falling behind schedule. This Kotaku article talks about it approximately mid-point: www.kotaku.com.au/2017/12/the-story-behindmass-effect-andromedas-troubled-five-year-development That's not exactly what the article states - plus, it mentions that the critical year was 2014: the year they were finishing Dragon Age: Inquisition. I don't know what exactly was going on there, but 'all hands on deck' for a title that was soon to be released (DAI in that case) doesn't seem out of the norm for BW. As mentioned, the same later happened for MEA and - up until recently - Anthem.
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Post by dazk on Feb 13, 2019 2:17:57 GMT
That's not exactly what the article states - plus, it mentions that the critical year was 2014: the year they were finishing Dragon Age: Inquisition. I don't know what exactly was going on there, but 'all hands on deck' for a title that was soon to be released (DAI in that case) doesn't seem out of the norm for BW. As mentioned, the same later happened for MEA and - up until recently - Anthem. Sorry wasn't in a rush and didn't vet the article in its entirety but I am pretty certain there was one paragraph that stated that Montreal was having staff poached from Edmonton. Anyway, that was not my original point. My point was it'd be great if Bioware on all their IP's could produce sequels in a shorter time frame, however they do that it'd be great because waiting 5 years for a sequel sucks. Anyway as Element Zero this is off topic and its my fault. Sorry.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Feb 13, 2019 2:29:52 GMT
Unless EA turn another studio into a Bioware studio or create a new one, handling four series at the same time we may endup with this type of timetable for the foresee future.
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Post by sil on Feb 13, 2019 9:15:11 GMT
What pisses me off is that they dropped Andromeda like a rock, but then paid out money to get Neil Blomkophf (or however you spell his bloody name!) to make a damned live action film for Anthem. How much would that cost? Millions, I imagine. They could have kept a small team patching Andromeda and fixing the remaining bugs, perhaps updating the multiplayer to keep it viable (and generating wealth), perhaps even making small DLC for weapons and small missions for that price. At the very least giving ME:A a year of patches.
Instead they spend out on a live action movie for a game that pretends to have a story but hasn't shown any of it so far. Grrrr!
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