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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 13, 2016 18:56:56 GMT
I figure Jien is a transgendered individual. Cuz, she's voiced by Jamie Clayton who is a trans woman herself. Explains the unique voice.
Let the rejoicing and singing of praises begin.
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Post by Lulupab on Dec 13, 2016 19:00:11 GMT
Yeah, maybe.
I hope she has a good story and not just transgender for the sake of having a transgender character.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 13, 2016 19:01:59 GMT
"She is a woman!"
New codex entry unlocked: Gender and the Andromeda Initiative
I'll rejoice and maybe croon some praises when I play an enjoyable game.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 13, 2016 19:05:07 GMT
Yeah, I hope that it's not going to be a major part of her character, but it's going to be because BioWare is so progressive yo. They can't not do stuff like this without also hammering it down your skull, like Krem for example. You just know when the prime motivation for making a character who is incidentally of some progressive sex was to insert LGBTQ pandering and not some idea that actually is in service of the larger narrative. Such is simply the way of BioWare. (unless Andromeda is really about identity and diversity of a group of human explorers at large.) If she has a line of expoistion saying "I'm transgender" I*m gonna mod the game so all her dialogue is replaced with that In related news EA is no longer the worst company in America. They are however now winners of the "most LGBTQ-friendly company" and I'm not making that up. More power to them. As if BioWare hasn't already been overbloated with such staff members and half of them come in with the mindset of furthering their personal agendas and not making good work.
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Post by KamenRyder on Dec 13, 2016 19:14:41 GMT
She played one in Sense8. I also wondered if she would play one in ME:A.
Since it's the future specifically 168 years from now I suppose sexual reassignment surgery will have seen god tier improvements? Would being trans even matter?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 13, 2016 19:17:05 GMT
She played one in Sense8. I also wondered if she would play one in ME:A. Since it's the future specifically 168 years from now I suppose sexual reassignment surgery will have seen god tier improvements? Would being trans even matter? It won't at all, and it makes sense in the direction our privileged third world countries are developing in now socially, that in 100+ years we'd have first commandantes and etc. being of all sorts of identities, so really, I digress. I just couldn't care less for when this happens in a BioWare game and then all the dialogue with this heavily featured character revolves around their identity regardless of what the story is or whether those conversations really add anything besides reminding you that you're playing a game that was made by progressive people.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 13, 2016 19:30:32 GMT
We know nothing about this character and we're debating the immersion of specific dialogue? Should we revisit this when people have actually played the game?
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Post by dalinne on Dec 13, 2016 19:43:15 GMT
Who cares? The real question is: IS SHE ROMANCEABLE???
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ApocAlypsE
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Dec 13, 2016 19:43:57 GMT
Extrapolation at it's finest. Don't change BSN.
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Post by Fredward on Dec 13, 2016 20:13:04 GMT
She clearly does play a narrative role as her position in the AI seems pretty important. I wonder how depopulated gaming worlds would be if, every time the devs added a character, they had to bust out the checkboxes and go "Serves greater narrative purpose? Oh, no. Just a servant bemoaning her lot and delivering some exposition in doing so, better axe this bit." Transgender characters are gonna be a bit of an odd fit, if you want them to be represented then you have to let people know they're there but you can't do this like you'd do it with a gay guy and just slip in a comment about a husband. "Oh, well when I was a man" really isn't going to fly. Mild Dishonored 2 spoilers. Mindy Blanchard is transgender, I had nooo idea since it's never addressed and it takes a pretty granular reading from a comment the Heart makes to make the connection (the comments are: "This is Paolo's second in command, Mindy Blanchard. Early in life she was someone else." "Early on, she felt like she’d been born into the wrong life, so she set about making it right.")
So what's an inclusive dev to do? I guess one way would be to include a derogatory comment from someone but they'll catch flack for that too. Finding medical records maybe? All this being said it's a bit of stretch to go transgender actor = transgender character. Though it is nice to go that extra mile if you are gonna add a transgender character I guess.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 13, 2016 20:28:41 GMT
Who cares? The real question is: IS SHE ROMANCEABLE??? Until this question is answered, nothing else matters.
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Post by dalinne on Dec 13, 2016 20:35:42 GMT
Who cares? The real question is: IS SHE ROMANCEABLE??? Until this question is answered, nothing else matters. That's pure BSN spirit!
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 13, 2016 20:36:16 GMT
I get the point and you're probably right. Not every part of the game has to have a bigger narrative relevance right down to teensy tiny details or even character traits.
However, this is when I get honest and sorry if I offend anyone but I have to say this: I don't give a shit about LGBTQ justice. I know a few in RL even some I used to be good friends with back in my high-school days that fit into such categories, so I get why it shouldn't matter if BioWare or any company includes them more in their products both to broaden the audience and to depict a more reality-friendly fiction or whatever you wanna call it.
But I just don't care for it personally, so if you have characters like Krem or maaayybeee Garson, whose sole purpose is almost just to talk about what it means to be Transgender in this fiction or something like that, then it's just distracting to have.
It's not like every straight character has to talk about how it matters they're straight, and i get the distinction; LGBTQ are minorities, they need to be furthered to feel like they belong naturally and you can't just pretend being gay is the norm or anything, but I just find it really disingenuous when they keep inserting characters of the LGBTQ spectrum and then waste my time as a guy who does not care about those agendas or social issues but just wants a game that has an immersive world, a good story, fun gameplay and maybe a sweet dialogue option.
And the more you pander to "everyone" the less you pander to the specific group. The more BioWare widens their audience the more they lose some of the few that used to care, and that's probably fine with them and fine for most, I just think it's a shame gaming is developing into this extreme overglobally inclusive medium where you just have to compromise no matter which genre or style of AAA game you want to play almost. I'm more about different games for different crowds than this jack of all trades master of nothing stuff.
Let ze backlash commence. I did not target my post at any individual so please respect and avoid ad-hominem and critique my points if you have anything negative to say in return.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 20:46:32 GMT
I get the point and you're probably right. Not every part of the game has to have a bigger narrative relevance right down to teensy tiny details or even character traits. However, this is when I get honest and sorry if I offend anyone but I have to say this: I don't give a shit about LGBTQ justice. I know a few in RL even some I used to be good friends with back in my high-school days that fit into such categories, so I get why it shouldn't matter if BioWare or any company includes them more in their products both to broaden the audience and to depict a more reality-friendly fiction or whatever you wanna call it. But I just don't care for it personally, so if you have characters like Krem or maaayybeee Garson, whose sole purpose is almost just to talk about what it means to be Transgender in this fiction or something like that, then it's just distracting to have. It's not like every straight character has to talk about how it matters they're straight, and i get the distinction; LGBTQ are minorities, they need to be furthered to feel like they belong naturally and you can't just pretend being gay is the norm or anything, but I just find it really disingenuous when they keep inserting characters of the LGBTQ spectrum and then waste my time as a guy who does not care about those agendas or social issues but just wants a game that has an immersive world, a good story, fun gameplay and maybe a sweet dialogue option. And the more you pander to "everyone" the less you pander to the specific group. The more BioWare widens their audience the more they lose some of the few that used to care, and that's probably fine with them and fine for most, I just think it's a shame gaming is developing into this extreme overglobally inclusive medium where you just have to compromise no matter which genre or style of AAA game you want to play almost. I'm more about different games for different crowds than this jack of all trades master of nothing stuff.Let ze backlash commence. I did not target my post at any individual so please respect and avoid ad-hominem and critique my points if you have anything negative to say in return. BioWare's ME team just make the entire universe for straight men. Every galaxy, every star system, every habitable planet must have hot alien chicks (that look like human supermodels, with huge tits, and extreme hip/waist ratio exaggerations) that worship human males only and, ugly alien bros who wish they were straight human males (who are the most amazing made in god's image), so they to could get in hot alien chicks pants. Human females must stay on earth and be used as breeding stock. Focus on straight men like you did predominately in the trilogy. This is how we should represent humanity, weird aliens, and the entire universe. We all know that is how it is in reality. You would think a game like ME would need to be diverse given its context. This game represents all humanity, aliens like the rachni and thorian...The least weird or pandering thing would be a transgender. If BioWare wanted to they could go the route they did with Miranda's creation, but instead have human women who have children with other human women. There is research, still in its infancy, but successful, that can do this. There is so much diverse options the ME team could've and could do for character backgrounds, both alien and human. Sticking with one group would be beyond ridiculous on a galactic/intergalactic scale. Does every human and alien have to fulfill conventional European/European American gender roles, or worse, conventions of beauty. I've always wanted ME to be harder sci-fi, especially with its aliens and our relationships with them. If it had been, this whole discussion about which group BioWare wants to pander to would be irrelevant. It always comes back to sex and...romance.
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Post by dalinne on Dec 13, 2016 20:48:52 GMT
Let's imagine for a moment, Link"Guess"ski , Jien Garson is a transgender woman and you know about it this way in game: Codex EntryJien Garson(Née John Garson)The daughter of the famous multimillonaire philantropist Harold Garson, Jien is well known for her committment in Science and Technology efforts to...There are so many ways of letting us know about her being transgender in a Sci Fi videogame. I came up with this in one minute. I think Bioware writers could do something x10 better than this without slowing the narrative of the game. ... if she is transgender. ... or romanceable. ... or both ( I really like the actress, ok??? )
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Post by kumazan on Dec 13, 2016 20:54:49 GMT
But I just don't care for it personally, so if you have characters like Krem or maaayybeee Garson, whose sole purpose is almost just to talk about what it means to be Transgender in this fiction or something like that, then it's just distracting to have. Krem's prupose is to be the face of Chargers, and your link to them. Through him (and IB of course) you get to know a bit about them, and through him you get their related War table missions.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Dec 13, 2016 20:59:52 GMT
What the shit BSN!
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Post by flyingovertrout on Dec 13, 2016 21:06:56 GMT
We know nothing about this character and we're debating the immersion of specific dialogue? Should we revisit this when people have actually played the game? Why ever pass up an opportunity to preemptively bitch?
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Post by javeart on Dec 13, 2016 21:09:27 GMT
I get the point and you're probably right. Not every part of the game has to have a bigger narrative relevance right down to teensy tiny details or even character traits. However, this is when I get honest and sorry if I offend anyone but I have to say this: I don't give a shit about LGBTQ justice. I know a few in RL even some I used to be good friends with back in my high-school days that fit into such categories, so I get why it shouldn't matter if BioWare or any company includes them more in their products both to broaden the audience and to depict a more reality-friendly fiction or whatever you wanna call it. But I just don't care for it personally, so if you have characters like Krem or maaayybeee Garson, whose sole purpose is almost just to talk about what it means to be Transgender in this fiction or something like that, then it's just distracting to have. It's not like every straight character has to talk about how it matters they're straight, and i get the distinction; LGBTQ are minorities, they need to be furthered to feel like they belong naturally and you can't just pretend being gay is the norm or anything, but I just find it really disingenuous when they keep inserting characters of the LGBTQ spectrum and then waste my time as a guy who does not care about those agendas or social issues but just wants a game that has an immersive world, a good story, fun gameplay and maybe a sweet dialogue option. And the more you pander to "everyone" the less you pander to the specific group. The more BioWare widens their audience the more they lose some of the few that used to care, and that's probably fine with them and fine for most, I just think it's a shame gaming is developing into this extreme overglobally inclusive medium where you just have to compromise no matter which genre or style of AAA game you want to play almost. I'm more about different games for different crowds than this jack of all trades master of nothing stuff. Let ze backlash commence. I did not target my post at any individual so please respect and avoid ad-hominem and critique my points if you have anything negative to say in return. What are we suppossed to discuss objectively, the fact that one character might be a trasgender woman or the fact that you don't give a shit about LGBTQ justice? i don't know how much can be said about any of this points: about the first one, we'll see if she is, and about the second, ok?
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Post by sageoflife on Dec 13, 2016 21:17:37 GMT
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Post by Vall on Dec 13, 2016 21:22:24 GMT
Who cares? The real question is: IS SHE ROMANCEABLE??? Romance...must...romance....EVERYONE! But I just don't care for it personally, so if you have characters like Krem or maaayybeee Garson, whose sole purpose is almost just to talk about what it means to be Transgender in this fiction or something like that, then it's just distracting to have. Krem's prupose is to be the face of Chargers, and your link to them. Through him (and IB of course) you get to know a bit about them, and through him you get their related War table missions. That's what I felt about Krem, him being her was mentioned in one conversation (that I remember) and I didn't feel like it was distracting. And hell, why shouldn't Jien be transgender, it doesn't really matter either way (I still don't believe in "advancing agendas", characters like this are simply part of the game world same as they are part of the real world...why did I bring that up? I don't know myself, random Val thoughts ) Edit: sidenote, I really like her voice
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Otter
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The Best Bad Example
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: OtterXIII
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Post by Otter on Dec 13, 2016 21:26:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 21:32:12 GMT
You know after watching the mighty prophet smudboy, I to have uncovered more SJW attempts to neuter the glorious masculinity of BioWare, even way back in ME1- Did you know that originally the thorian creature was supposed to look like this- But femnazis were jealous of BioWare pandering to straight men in the ME trilogy, their core audience, so it and the potential romance was scrubbed. Then, on top of that, they made the thorian aesexual to pander to the abnormz...Damn you SJW! Thank god that SJW David Gaider was cool enough to let us have it in Dragon Age: Origins. And this... the original rachni queen... They then made her look like a bug, and gave her a weird sexuality that is soooo abnormz. How unrealistic? We all know aliens were created in the image of god's superior creatures. Damn you SJW. Damn you! Ruining the realistic portrayal of the human experience in the Milky Way galaxy for straight men! And now Andromeda. Now let's just wait for David/BobfromAccounting/Babypuncher to come in and say how much this possibility makes him want to vomit.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 13, 2016 21:42:28 GMT
ok.... speculating on what the facets of a game character may be, simply based on their voice actor, is without any other information a fairly fruitless activity. However, we appear to have settled into a discussion of trans characters, so let's go with that (and I'll change the thread title accordingly). If we can maintain a civil discussion on the topic (something BSN Prime often failed to do) then let's see where this goes...
David Gaider said this, not many years ago, about trans characters in games: "No, I don’t think video game culture is ready for transgender characters— not as major plot characters, and certainly not as a lead. It’s not ready for major characters that are gay, either. Heck, it’s barely ready for ones which are female."BioWare have had a few goes at this, possibly starting with the Dragon Age II character, Serendipity (though the writers envisaged the character more as cross-dressing), then from the Dragon Age comic series 'Until We Sleep' the trans Tevinter mage Maevaris Tilani and most recently with Dragon Age Inquisition's Krem. Acceptance follows repetition, and a character may be written with an interesting story (and less as a gender identity token) if the story is unforced. Wasn't long ago, we'd be having an argument about whether Head of Security Sloane Kelly was right to be female, or black. We could debate whether this journey of inclusion is worthwhile (my personal view is that it is), though of more importance to me is whether any particular character is well written.
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Post by hammerstorm on Dec 13, 2016 21:43:36 GMT
Well, since I didn't cared about krems gender, (when I first meet her/him I know that he was a she) I don't think I will care about Jiens gender either. Btw, why is people so obsessed with the genders? People complained when they found out that we had 3 (4 with Jien) woman in high position on the Nexus and now we are complaining that one woman may be a transgender?
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