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Post by deadlydwarf on Feb 13, 2017 22:50:04 GMT
A very good, thoughtful post! Generally, I've never understood the "Cult of Anders" among female DA2 players, but in your case, it makes sense given your "revolutionary" perspective! (By contrast, I've always played my Hawkes like the sheriff in those old Westerns who's forever trying to keep the cattle ranchers and the sheep herders from killing each other.) As to the plot, there are some major issues in that third act. Whether you choose to help the mages or the Templars, you end up fighting a group of Templars and mages who are working together. Shouldn't that be the kind of group you want to be a part of? (Assuming you're not an extreme, mage-hating Templar, of course.)
Regarding crafting, armor, and gear, DA2 is rather annoying. You can't change out armor for companions and crafting is very limited. Inquisition, by contrast, allows you to craft armor, weapons, and runes from raw materials gathered in your travels, largely metals, cloth, and leather and some unusual items for rune-crafting.
Your next planned PT sounds interesting. A mage isn't a natural fit for Fenris, but it can be done. And you're familiar, now, with all the key plot points and how they impact him favorably or unfavorably.
Just curious, I remember you said you didn't recruit Isabela. Did she end up popping up later in the game? Of course it makes sense, and only on this way (my opinion). What else? Bethany closed in the Gallows... so easy to understand Anders in this circumstances. And as mage? Of course easy to understand Anders. Who want to be a pariah? But if Hawke's not a revolutioner, Bethany dead, or Grey Warden, so "in safe", or Hawke blind, and trust in Meredith's benevolence, then can't see Anders' reasons, so: Anders just a murderer, and a liar. And an Abomination, a monster. The question how possible to live with someone, who only a liar murderer monster in his/her eyes? But the love can be just blind. Anders' romance the best, if Hawke share his passion toward the freedom. At any cost. And can accept Justice. Otherwise? Tragic. I think, the writers' intention was closer to your sheriff-kind concept. For me, Anders is a psycho and a terrorist. Remember how quick he is to kill Grace, the mage who was about to be made Tranquil. (The right dialog selection can save Grace. But the fact that he's ready to snap if you look at him wrong is not good.) In trying to keep the peace, my Hawkes have always appealed to the Grand Cleric Elthina, who is not a fanatic and seems like she can be reasoned with. That Anders would blow up the Grand Cathedral (and manipulate his friends to help him gather materials for the bomb, thus making them all accomplices in his crime) killing the Grand Cleric and anyone else who happens to be in the Cathedral makes him nothing less than a terrorist IMHO. I always end up killing him.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 13, 2017 23:05:21 GMT
Of course it makes sense, and only on this way (my opinion). What else? Bethany closed in the Gallows... so easy to understand Anders in this circumstances. And as mage? Of course easy to understand Anders. Who want to be a pariah? But if Hawke's not a revolutioner, Bethany dead, or Grey Warden, so "in safe", or Hawke blind, and trust in Meredith's benevolence, then can't see Anders' reasons, so: Anders just a murderer, and a liar. And an Abomination, a monster. The question how possible to live with someone, who only a liar murderer monster in his/her eyes? But the love can be just blind. Anders' romance the best, if Hawke share his passion toward the freedom. At any cost. And can accept Justice. Otherwise? Tragic. I think, the writers' intention was closer to your sheriff-kind concept. For me, Anders is a psycho and a terrorist. Remember how quick he is to kill Grace, the mage who was about to be made Tranquil. (The right dialog selection can save Grace. But the fact that he's ready to snap if you look at him wrong is not good.) In trying to keep the peace, my Hawkes have always appealed to the Grand Cleric Elthina, who is not a fanatic and seems like she can be reasoned with. That Anders would blow up the Grand Cathedral (and manipulate his friends to help him gather materials for the bomb, thus making them all accomplices in his crime) killing the Grand Cleric and anyone else who happens to be in the Cathedral makes him nothing less than a terrorist IMHO. I always end up killing him. Ella? Yes, I know. She called him (Justice) demon, in the heat of battle. Justice's not a human, he need to understand the humans, and yes, Anders lost the control over himself. This is a mistake, a dangerous mistake, but yes, Hawke can convince Justice/Anders to retreat (I never let him to kill Ella), and Anders and Justice can learn from it. On the other hand yes, there's another explanation is that Justice became Vengeance demon, but some things refutes this, especially in friendship. Justice and his relationship with Anders is interesting question, but off topic here. The Grand Cleric or blind, or malicious, no other way. She knew about Meredith's law-breaking and cruelty. She did nothing. She is guilty, she was one of those people who caused Kirkwall's chaos, and the war. Yes, she had tools to prevent this, but she does not interesting about Kirkall, about the people, just the eternity. After Anders' action she got her eternity... she deserved Justice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 0:49:59 GMT
Of course it makes sense, and only on this way (my opinion). What else? Bethany closed in the Gallows... so easy to understand Anders in this circumstances. And as mage? Of course easy to understand Anders. Who want to be a pariah? But if Hawke's not a revolutioner, Bethany dead, or Grey Warden, so "in safe", or Hawke blind, and trust in Meredith's benevolence, then can't see Anders' reasons, so: Anders just a murderer, and a liar. And an Abomination, a monster. The question how possible to live with someone, who only a liar murderer monster in his/her eyes? But the love can be just blind. Anders' romance the best, if Hawke share his passion toward the freedom. At any cost. And can accept Justice. Otherwise? Tragic. I think, the writers' intention was closer to your sheriff-kind concept. For me, Anders is a psycho and a terrorist. Remember how quick he is to kill Grace, the mage who was about to be made Tranquil. (The right dialog selection can save Grace. But the fact that he's ready to snap if you look at him wrong is not good.) In trying to keep the peace, my Hawkes have always appealed to the Grand Cleric Elthina, who is not a fanatic and seems like she can be reasoned with. That Anders would blow up the Grand Cathedral (and manipulate his friends to help him gather materials for the bomb, thus making them all accomplices in his crime) killing the Grand Cleric and anyone else who happens to be in the Cathedral makes him nothing less than a terrorist IMHO. I always end up killing him. However, if you grew up in veneration of the ability to sacrifice for the sake of achieving a better end, and do not learn to sugar coat and believe that it can be achieved bloodlessly or painlessly, etc, what Anders does is mild compared to the historic realities. Also, imo, it's important to note that it's not Justice that turns Anders to nihilism and anarchism from a lovable vagabond, it is Anders that corrupts Justice. It is noted in the game a few times that the demons (and spirits) simply amplify the hearts' deepest desires, driving the possessed to the eventual extremes. While Justice stays with well-adjusted Kristof, he acts within the bounds of the law. When he is one with Anders, Anders' unrest and passive resistance boil over into active acts of defiance. Anders is aware that his choices are not morally sound, because it involves sacrificing others not just himself, but someone has to push the trigger to advance the situation towards a better resolution, past the insufferable status quo. Anders is an interesting character, and I am happy BioWARE have tried something like that.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Feb 14, 2017 1:18:39 GMT
The Grand Cleric or blind, or malicious, no other way. She knew about Meredith's law-breaking and cruelty. She did nothing. She is guilty, she was one of those people who caused Kirkwall's chaos, and the war. Yes, she had tools to prevent this, but she does not interesting about Kirkall, about the people, just the eternity. After Anders' action she got her eternity... she deserved Justice. We can't assume she did nothing or did not try, there's no evidence to support it. Meredith struck me as one who knew how to bend the rules and manipulate. It wouldn't surprise me if the GC did take her to task a few times but Meredith presented her with a solid block of evidence of the mages' misdeeds and why harsh rules were needed to keep them in check. There could be certain aspects she had to consider if she had intended to remove Meredith. The number of rogue mages, the ability of a KC to maintain control / peace on the mages / region, the morale of the templar garrison, local sentiment, etc. There was also no way to get a better insight of the GC other than the evident failure to rein in Meredith and Petrice. She could be juggling other major problems. A GC's responsibilities had to be bigger than just watching over the city and the flock.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Feb 14, 2017 1:39:37 GMT
For me, Anders is a psycho and a terrorist. Remember how quick he is to kill Grace, the mage who was about to be made Tranquil. (The right dialog selection can save Grace. But the fact that he's ready to snap if you look at him wrong is not good.) In trying to keep the peace, my Hawkes have always appealed to the Grand Cleric Elthina, who is not a fanatic and seems like she can be reasoned with. That Anders would blow up the Grand Cathedral (and manipulate his friends to help him gather materials for the bomb, thus making them all accomplices in his crime) killing the Grand Cleric and anyone else who happens to be in the Cathedral makes him nothing less than a terrorist IMHO. I always end up killing him. Ella? Yes, I know. She called him (Justice) demon, in the heat of battle. Justice's not a human, he need to understand the humans, and yes, Anders lost the control over himself. This is a mistake, a dangerous mistake, but yes, Hawke can convince Justice/Anders to retreat (I never let him to kill Ella), and Anders and Justice can learn from it. On the other hand yes, there's another explanation is that Justice became Vengeance demon, but some things refutes this, especially in friendship. Justice and his relationship with Anders is interesting question, but off topic here. The Grand Cleric or blind, or malicious, no other way. She knew about Meredith's law-breaking and cruelty. She did nothing. She is guilty, she was one of those people who caused Kirkwall's chaos, and the war. Yes, she had tools to prevent this, but she does not interesting about Kirkall, about the people, just the eternity. After Anders' action she got her eternity... she deserved Justice.She does try to restrain Meredith and Templars and refuses to Annul the Circle. She's trying to find a compromise for peace. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/ElthinaThe non-mages of Thedas are suspicious of mages to begin with. I don't see how this act would increase the number of sympathizers. Just curious; for those who side with Anders, how does that impact DAI? In my PTs, Cass wants to kill Varric because they wanted Hawke to be part of the Inquisition. Is that still the case if Hawke is in a relationship with the guy who blew up the Grand Cathedral?
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2017 1:45:15 GMT
The Grand Cleric or blind, or malicious, no other way. She knew about Meredith's law-breaking and cruelty. She did nothing. She is guilty, she was one of those people who caused Kirkwall's chaos, and the war. Yes, she had tools to prevent this, but she does not interesting about Kirkall, about the people, just the eternity. After Anders' action she got her eternity... she deserved Justice. We can't assume she did nothing or did not try, there's no evidence to support it. Meredith struck me as one who knew how to bend the rules and manipulate. It wouldn't surprise me if the GC did take her to task a few times but Meredith presented her with a solid block of evidence of the mages' misdeeds and why harsh rules were needed to keep them in check. There could be certain aspects she had to consider if she had intended to remove Meredith. The number of rogue mages, the ability of a KC to maintain control / peace on the mages / region, the morale of the templar garrison, local sentiment, etc. There was also no way to get a better insight of the GC other than the evident failure to rein in Meredith and Petrice. She could be juggling other major problems. A GC's responsibilities had to be bigger than just watching over the city and the flock. "I don't support Meredith's methods", she said. She knew about Meredith methods. And who knew the Chantry's law a little bit, knew, that tranquilising is not a punishment for trivial things. So: she knew about law-breakings, and she did nothing. Even Petrice was stopped by Hawke. Elthina did a fatal mistake. At the begining Act 3, she should to stop Meredith's ambitions, and to command her to her place, and let the nobles to elect a baron. She did not. So: she was unsuitable. In her position this blindness, stupidity or "neutrality" can be deadly. I don't care about her: she deserved her fate. Again: The Grand Cheric, and even the Knight Commander don't responsible for the city. The Grand Cleric have responsibilities for her flock, INCLUDING the mages... they are Andrastians, they not? And the Templars... The Knight Commander have responsibilities for the Templars and the mages. Not the city. The city is the viscount responsible. The Knight Commander exceeded her powers, it would have been enough reason to ask for a replacement, or at least command her to return her place. Orsino only wanted this. Elthina refused him, and refused the nobles. I no wonder she did not want an investigation, Kirkwall was corrupted by the Chantry.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
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Post by melbella on Feb 14, 2017 1:56:40 GMT
Just curious; for those who side with Anders, how does that impact DAI? In my PTs, Cass wants to kill Varric because they wanted Hawke to be part of the Inquisition. Is that still the case if Hawke is in a relationship with the guy who blew up the Grand Cathedral?
Yep. The only difference is that Cass says Hawke may not have been interested in being Inquisitor since s/he supported the rebellion (ie sided with the mages). Hawke's relationship with Anders isn't a factor. Which is beyond stupid. If Hawke supported the mages and the rebellion, and travelled to various Circles with Anders helping them break loose, WHY WOULD HAWKE WANT TO HELP THE CHANTRY?!
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Post by deadlydwarf on Feb 14, 2017 2:06:59 GMT
For me, Anders is a psycho and a terrorist. Remember how quick he is to kill Grace, the mage who was about to be made Tranquil. (The right dialog selection can save Grace. But the fact that he's ready to snap if you look at him wrong is not good.) In trying to keep the peace, my Hawkes have always appealed to the Grand Cleric Elthina, who is not a fanatic and seems like she can be reasoned with. That Anders would blow up the Grand Cathedral (and manipulate his friends to help him gather materials for the bomb, thus making them all accomplices in his crime) killing the Grand Cleric and anyone else who happens to be in the Cathedral makes him nothing less than a terrorist IMHO. I always end up killing him. However, if you grew up in veneration of the ability to sacrifice for the sake of achieving a better end, and do not learn to sugar coat and believe that it can be achieved bloodlessly or painlessly, etc, what Anders does is mild compared to the historic realities. 1. Also, imo, it's important to note that it's not Justice that turns Anders to nihilism and anarchism from a lovable vagabond, it is Anders that corrupts Justice. It is noted in the game a few times that the demons (and spirits) simply amplify the hearts' deepest desires, driving the possessed to the eventual extremes. While Justice stays with well-adjusted Kristof, he acts within the bounds of the law. When he is one with Anders, Anders' unrest and passive resistance boil over into active acts of defiance. 2. Anders is aware that his choices are not morally sound, because it involves sacrificing others not just himself, but someone has to push the trigger to advance the situation towards a better resolution, past the insufferable status quo. 3. Anders is an interesting character, and I am happy BioWARE have tried something like that.
1. Anders + Justice = nitro + glycerin! A rather negative synergy, IMO! With Kristoff, Justice is possessing a dead body. He has the benefit of Kristoff's memories and since Kristoff was a decent man, Justice is not corrupted from his purpose as a spirit. By contrast, we have the case of Wynne whose spirit keeps her alive but otherwise lets her be herself. Of course, Wynne's spirit knew her long before it became necessary to possess her in order to save her; so the spirit knew they would be compatible. With Kristoff's body decaying, Justice had to jump to the only willing host available, even if they didn't exactly complement each other. 2. I don't see how the bombing of the Grand Cathedral really works toward a better resolution for the mages. If anything, it further alienates the non-mage population from them. 3. I definitely agree that BW does a good job of creating intriguing characters and situations that engage gamers and encourage critical thinking!
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Feb 14, 2017 2:08:58 GMT
"I don't support Meredith's methods", she said. She knew about Meredith methods. And who knew the Chantry's law a little bit, knew, that tranquilising is not a punishment for trivial things. So: she knew about law-breakings, and she did nothing. Even Petrice was stopped by Hawke. Elthina did a fatal mistake. At the begining Act 3, she should to stop Meredith's ambitions, and to command her to her place, and let the nobles to elect a baron. She did not. So: she was unsuitable. In her position this blindness, stupidity or "neutrality" can be deadly. I don't care about her: she deserved her fate. Again: The Grand Cheric, and even the Knight Commander don't responsible for the city. The Grand Cleric have responsibilities for her flock, INCLUDING the mages... they are Andrastians, they not? And the Templars... The Knight Commander have responsibilities for the Templars and the mages. Not the city. The city is the viscount responsible. The Knight Commander exceeded her powers, it would have been enough reason to ask for a replacement, or at least command her to return her place. Orsino only wanted this. Elthina refused him, and refused the nobles. I no wonder she did not want an investigation, Kirkwall was corrupted by the Chantry. True, the viscount is responsible for the city, its operations / laws / defenses, but a city can only be called a city if there're people. Buildings create a place, not a living breathing city. The GC is also responsible for the city, albeit in another way. The same goes for the KC too. I'm not saying Elthina didn't have her failures / lacks but I feel the devs should throw more insights on this char, her motivations. * Playing Trespasser. I'm sad because this is the ending / no resolution to the story which is why I'm always reluctant to play it although it's the top DLC of the lot. My consolation is that the Inq married Cullen and will have a life / future with him. Another reason why I don't want to redo the Solas romance. Yet. Once DA4 is confirmed and ready for launch, I will do it once more...in the hopes that the devs did not relegate this relationship to a few lines in epilogue. Every time I go up against the qunari, I always go 'take that you SOBs' because I really really detest them. I'm on Solas's side, going "make statues of all of them'. I think of all the Bioware games, the Qunari are the only chars that I detest with a passion because they reflect something in my life.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2017 2:10:26 GMT
Ella? Yes, I know. She called him (Justice) demon, in the heat of battle. Justice's not a human, he need to understand the humans, and yes, Anders lost the control over himself. This is a mistake, a dangerous mistake, but yes, Hawke can convince Justice/Anders to retreat (I never let him to kill Ella), and Anders and Justice can learn from it. On the other hand yes, there's another explanation is that Justice became Vengeance demon, but some things refutes this, especially in friendship. Justice and his relationship with Anders is interesting question, but off topic here. The Grand Cleric or blind, or malicious, no other way. She knew about Meredith's law-breaking and cruelty. She did nothing. She is guilty, she was one of those people who caused Kirkwall's chaos, and the war. Yes, she had tools to prevent this, but she does not interesting about Kirkall, about the people, just the eternity. After Anders' action she got her eternity... she deserved Justice.She does try to restrain Meredith and Templars and refuses to Annul the Circle. She's trying to find a compromise for peace. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/ElthinaThe non-mages of Thedas are suspicious of mages to begin with. I don't see how this act would increase the number of sympathizers. Just curious; for those who side with Anders, how does that impact DAI? In my PTs, Cass wants to kill Varric because they wanted Hawke to be part of the Inquisition. Is that still the case if Hawke is in a relationship with the guy who blew up the Grand Cathedral? Let's be bona fide, Elthina is not malevolent just idiot. Cassandra wanted Hawke... whatever s/he did. The scene is same. I put here, because I like. (Willard Trevelyan – Georg Hawke, supported Anders, in love.) Anders supporter Hawke told from Anders, that "...He's not just a monster, or a hero; or maybe he's both (I'm angry for this sentence, because they are best friends/lover), he was trying to change the world, he knew, it couldn't happen pacefully".Hawke, if in love with Anders told, that he and Anders went from Circle to Circle, and helped the mages to start the rebellion. Varric don't wrote letter to Anders as the other LIs (at least don't told to Inquisitor – as I know, Anders was still wanted), when Hawke went to Weisshaupt. But in a banter he told, that he sure, that Anders will join to Hawke.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Feb 14, 2017 2:14:09 GMT
Just curious; for those who side with Anders, how does that impact DAI? In my PTs, Cass wants to kill Varric because they wanted Hawke to be part of the Inquisition. Is that still the case if Hawke is in a relationship with the guy who blew up the Grand Cathedral?
Yep. The only difference is that Cass says Hawke may not have been interested in being Inquisitor since s/he supported the rebellion (ie sided with the mages). Hawke's relationship with Anders isn't a factor. Which is beyond stupid. If Hawke supported the mages and the rebellion, and travelled to various Circles with Anders helping them break loose, WHY WOULD HAWKE WANT TO HELP THE CHANTRY?!
If anything, you would think Cass would want to take down Hawke for being an accomplice to Anders' crimes. Oh well...such are the illogical compromises developers make to allow characters to go from one RPG to its sequel!
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Feb 14, 2017 2:15:51 GMT
I'm surprised the DA II companions seem so forgiving of Anders. This guy never survived DA II in all my PTs (never even romanced him. One look at Isabella and Fenris and I was in dilemma. ). He had to die.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2017 2:22:25 GMT
Just curious; for those who side with Anders, how does that impact DAI? In my PTs, Cass wants to kill Varric because they wanted Hawke to be part of the Inquisition. Is that still the case if Hawke is in a relationship with the guy who blew up the Grand Cathedral? Yep. The only difference is that Cass says Hawke may not have been interested in being Inquisitor since s/he supported the rebellion (ie sided with the mages). Hawke's relationship with Anders isn't a factor. Which is beyond stupid. If Hawke supported the mages and the rebellion, and travelled to various Circles with Anders helping them break loose, WHY WOULD HAWKE WANT TO HELP THE CHANTRY?! Because s/he is (and Anders too!) Andrastian? I don't think, that Hawke (and/or even Anders) HATE the Chantry, they wanted to change. So: the rebellion started. This was, what they want, not the end of Andrastianism. As I see. Anders speach before the battle [...] "May the Maker bring us victory, or everything else is meaningless".
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N7
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
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Post by melbella on Feb 14, 2017 2:27:13 GMT
Being Andrastian =/= being a Chantry supporter. From Anders' perspective, the Chantry is a big part of the problem; it's why he destroyed the Chantry building instead of the Gallows. It's become political, and cares more about "keeping order" than anything else.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2017 2:50:59 GMT
Being Andrastian =/= being a Chantry supporter. From Anders' perspective, the Chantry is a big part of the problem; it's why he destroyed the Chantry building instead of the Gallows. It's become political, and cares more about "keeping order" than anything else. Indeed, but I don't think that Anders wanted a big black hole in the place of the Chantry. This is chaos, not justice, and the people need justice (this is why Justice/Vengeance don't try to prevent the execution of Anders, as I see). He only wanted rights for the mages too. A changed Chant of Light would be acceptable even according him. To restore order, the right thing to do. Not the Circles in the old form, the order. This isn't same. And to stop Corypheus. I know, that hard to believe this, only I try to explain somehow, and I think, this is not unimaginable. Act 3, if Hawke spare Anders' life, and Aveline in the party: Aveline: Just to be clear Anders: when this is over, you will turn yourself in for your crime. Anders: I’m well aware of your commitment to oppression. Aveline: The laws of the land. Fairly applied to everyone.Anders: That…is actually something I’d very much like to see.And why Cassandra think, that Hawke would be willing to help? Why not would give a chance?
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Feb 14, 2017 7:35:09 GMT
My hopes for a glitch free Trespasser is not happening. I fired up the game just now and found all my custom settings returned to default. I have no idea why this happened when I didn't do anything moddy with the game. Now the second eluvian pass is glitched. P.S. Definitely something screwy is going on. I kept at it and the second pass went off, the party selection came up. But then, combat roll behaved really weirdly. Up until now, when I hit combat roll, the Inq will just roll forward. But now ... the game pause and I get a directional arrow to tell the Inq where to roll??!! What's going on? !
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Feb 14, 2017 11:23:34 GMT
Finished Trespasser. This one is not as bad as the previous (Solas romance PT) where I had to force transitions many times. I merely have to go through the trouble of closing and launching the game again to get the party cards to appear. Since it takes less than a minute, it's just a minor annoyance. The mods I have been using throughout the PT were not taken out.
I still winced at the cries of pain. I doubt I'll be able to stoically bear it, the VA (Sumalee Montano), she did it too good.
Although I said I would keep the Inquisition under the Divine, I took another look at the choices and took note of what the devs have defined with each choice. So I reconsidered again. With inquisition, efforts stronger against Solas, risk of corruption. No inquisition, efforts weaker against Solas but secure. I went with the peaceful dissolution.
Cass will have to be the one to take up the load of forming some kind of emergency protection /preparation (if she could) for the populace in the time they have. She has the authority and resources. The Seekers she's reforming, augment by templars who freed themselves of the lyrium addiction would be an unknown element to Solas and might be useful against him. Meanwhile, the rest would maintain contact with one another and do whatever they can to prepare.
Since the Inq married Cullen, he was standing with her at the last. I was surprised when Cass walked back. So there're two of them with the Inq. I like the idea of them returning to humble status and having time for each other. The Inq probably helped Cullen in running the rehabilitation centre for templars. The one thing I'm not certain of is whether the Dalish clans responded to Solas's call. The epilogue said elven servants across Thedas and those in the inquisition leaving. It seemed as if he left the Dalish clans alone. This wouldn't surprise me since he had mentioned the hostility he encountered from them. Most would probably not have been willing to listen or even allow him to approach so the only elves who would listen were city elves.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 14:41:41 GMT
However, if you grew up in veneration of the ability to sacrifice for the sake of achieving a better end, and do not learn to sugar coat and believe that it can be achieved bloodlessly or painlessly, etc, what Anders does is mild compared to the historic realities. 1. Also, imo, it's important to note that it's not Justice that turns Anders to nihilism and anarchism from a lovable vagabond, it is Anders that corrupts Justice. It is noted in the game a few times that the demons (and spirits) simply amplify the hearts' deepest desires, driving the possessed to the eventual extremes. While Justice stays with well-adjusted Kristof, he acts within the bounds of the law. When he is one with Anders, Anders' unrest and passive resistance boil over into active acts of defiance. 2. Anders is aware that his choices are not morally sound, because it involves sacrificing others not just himself, but someone has to push the trigger to advance the situation towards a better resolution, past the insufferable status quo. 3. Anders is an interesting character, and I am happy BioWARE have tried something like that.
1. Anders + Justice = nitro + glycerin! A rather negative synergy, IMO! With Kristoff, Justice is possessing a dead body. He has the benefit of Kristoff's memories and since Kristoff was a decent man, Justice is not corrupted from his purpose as a spirit. By contrast, we have the case of Wynne whose spirit keeps her alive but otherwise lets her be herself. Of course, Wynne's spirit knew her long before it became necessary to possess her in order to save her; so the spirit knew they would be compatible. With Kristoff's body decaying, Justice had to jump to the only willing host available, even if they didn't exactly complement each other. 2. I don't see how the bombing of the Grand Cathedral really works toward a better resolution for the mages. If anything, it further alienates the non-mage population from them. 3. I definitely agree that BW does a good job of creating intriguing characters and situations that engage gamers and encourage critical thinking! It is not about creating sympathizers, it's about creating a revolutionary situation and destroying powerful symbology. Anders is ahead of his time with his tactics. The individual anarchists acts like that are viewed as a lesser evil as a backlash against the horrors of the French Revolution, and were something that occurred a lot in the late 18th to early 20th century, before turning back to the mass uprisings. It's important to remove the grand cleric, that maintains the reactionary status quo and gives legitimacy to the old, unacceptable order of things. Just like the rebels in Star Wars movie do not want and regret destroying millions of slaves and workers the empire uses to build the Death Star 2 along with the Death Star, Andes regrets the loss of life that occurs as a result of his provocation. As it is not the intended target, just the building itself and the Grand Cleric, they are casualties of war in his mind. That's how I view the situation, so my impartial pc will execute Anders. But his lover... no.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by deadlydwarf on Feb 14, 2017 14:53:20 GMT
Iona and her companions went to the Emerald Graves in pursuit of the Freeman of the Dales, the Orlesian rebel group which appears to have ties to the Red Templars. Between evidence recovered in rebel camps and the camps of lyrium smugglers, Cullen is able to piece together Samson's operations and trace the ultimate source of Red Lyrium to the small mining town in the Empris de Leon. Ominously, they note that the Freemen have been capturing war refugees and turning them over to Samson's men. They also note Red Templars trying to capture giants, which are plentiful in the Graves. After clearing the Graves of rebels and Red Templars, Iona and her crew kill an Ice Dragon that has been terrorizing the region as well.
Having defeated the Freemen of the Dales, the Inquisition has done its part to facilitate progress in the peace talks to end the Orlesian Civil War. The Inquisition can now attend the Ball at the Winter Palace where the talks are being held and hopefully prevent the assassination of the Empress that was foretold in the future that Iona experienced at Redcliffe.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Feb 14, 2017 15:41:49 GMT
1. Anders + Justice = nitro + glycerin! A rather negative synergy, IMO! With Kristoff, Justice is possessing a dead body. He has the benefit of Kristoff's memories and since Kristoff was a decent man, Justice is not corrupted from his purpose as a spirit. By contrast, we have the case of Wynne whose spirit keeps her alive but otherwise lets her be herself. Of course, Wynne's spirit knew her long before it became necessary to possess her in order to save her; so the spirit knew they would be compatible. With Kristoff's body decaying, Justice had to jump to the only willing host available, even if they didn't exactly complement each other. 2. I don't see how the bombing of the Grand Cathedral really works toward a better resolution for the mages. If anything, it further alienates the non-mage population from them. 3. I definitely agree that BW does a good job of creating intriguing characters and situations that engage gamers and encourage critical thinking! It is not about creating sympathizers, it's about creating a revolutionary situation and destroying powerful symbology. Anders is ahead of his time with his tactics. The individual anarchists acts like that are viewed as a lesser evil as a backlash against the horrors of the French Revolution, and were something that occurred a lot in the late 18th to early 20th century, before turning back to the mass uprisings. It's important to remove the grand cleric, that maintains the reactionary status quo and gives legitimacy to the old, unacceptable order of things. Just like the rebels in Star Wars movie do not want and regret destroying millions of slaves and workers the empire uses to build the Death Star 2 along with the Death Star, Andes regrets the loss of life that occurs as a result of his provocation. As it is not the intended target, just the building itself and the Grand Cleric, they are casualties of war in his mind. That's how I view the situation, so my impartial pc will execute Anders. But his lover... no. The problem with applying the revolutionary paradigm here is that the mages represent not a disgruntled proletariat but a small, greatly feared minority. Further, it doesn't help that they have the negative example of the Tevinter Imperium where mages rule and where non-mages, at best, are second class citizens or, at worst, slaves. (Paging Fenris...) That said, revolutionary acts - or rather the acts of anarchists who precede serious revolutionaries - may be more emotional rather than rational. And since Hawke comes from an apostate family, it's conceivable that Hawke would follow Anders' lead. (Though, ironically, with a non-mage Hawke, the only mage left in the family - Bethany - would definitely disapprove of Anders' actions.)
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2017 16:02:57 GMT
It is not about creating sympathizers, it's about creating a revolutionary situation and destroying powerful symbology. Anders is ahead of his time with his tactics. The individual anarchists acts like that are viewed as a lesser evil as a backlash against the horrors of the French Revolution, and were something that occurred a lot in the late 18th to early 20th century, before turning back to the mass uprisings. It's important to remove the grand cleric, that maintains the reactionary status quo and gives legitimacy to the old, unacceptable order of things. Just like the rebels in Star Wars movie do not want and regret destroying millions of slaves and workers the empire uses to build the Death Star 2 along with the Death Star, Andes regrets the loss of life that occurs as a result of his provocation. As it is not the intended target, just the building itself and the Grand Cleric, they are casualties of war in his mind.
That's how I view the situation, so my impartial pc will execute Anders. But his lover... no. The problem with applying the revolutionary paradigm here is that the mages represent not a disgruntled proletariat but a small, greatly feared minority. Further, it doesn't help that they have the negative example of the Tevinter Imperium where mages rule and where non-mages, at best, are second class citizens or, at worst, slaves. (Paging Fenris...) That said, revolutionary acts - or rather the acts of anarchists who precede serious revolutionaries - may be more emotional rather than rational. And since Hawke comes from an apostate family, it's conceivable that Hawke would follow Anders' lead. (Though, ironically, with a non-mage Hawke, the only mage left in the family - Bethany - would definitely disapprove of Anders' actions.) You speak about this Bethany? Seems she happy with the new chance...
Probably Bethany don't likes Anders' tools, but she agree with freedom, and that the people need to drop their fears and to learn to live with mages. Bethany don't likes the Circle. Bethany only accepted her fate, because she don't wanted to be burden or a danger for her family. But not because she agreed with the system. Why many people think, that Bethany is idiot, who likes better to live closed in the prison, without privacy? She want to live as a everyone else. (Fenris also need to learn not to be afraid, he is capable to it.) The Circles not capable to prevents a new arrives of a Black City, the mentality, the thought, the moral can. (As Anders said at Act 1: the freedom of mages will not cause a rising of a new Tevinter) Orsino presented finally, in his despair, that he would be capable to leave the Circle and destroy anything long ago, but he didn't. He tried to protect his people. Tevinter's problem is the slavery and the human sacrifice. In Southern Thedas this is unacceptable (at least the latter...)
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by deadlydwarf on Feb 14, 2017 17:12:17 GMT
The problem with applying the revolutionary paradigm here is that the mages represent not a disgruntled proletariat but a small, greatly feared minority. Further, it doesn't help that they have the negative example of the Tevinter Imperium where mages rule and where non-mages, at best, are second class citizens or, at worst, slaves. (Paging Fenris...) That said, revolutionary acts - or rather the acts of anarchists who precede serious revolutionaries - may be more emotional rather than rational. And since Hawke comes from an apostate family, it's conceivable that Hawke would follow Anders' lead. (Though, ironically, with a non-mage Hawke, the only mage left in the family - Bethany - would definitely disapprove of Anders' actions.) You speak about this Bethany? Seems she happy with the new chance...
Probably Bethany don't likes Anders' tools, but she agree with freedom, and that the people need to drop their fears and to learn to live with mages. Bethany don't likes the Circle. Bethany only accepted her fate, because she don't wanted to be burden or a danger for his family. But not because she agreed with the system. Why many people think, that Bethany is idiot, who likes better to live closed in the prison, without privacy? She want to live as a everyone else. (Fenris also need to learn not to be afraid, he is capable to it.) The Circles not capable to prevents a new arrives of a Black City, the mentality, the thought, the moral can. (As Anders said at Act 1: the freedom of mages will not cause a rising of a new Tevinter) Orsino presented finally, in his despair, that he would be capable to leave the Circle and destroy anything long ago, but he didn't. He tried to protect his people. Tevinter's problem is the slavery and the human sacrifice. In Southern Thedas this is unacceptable (at least the latter...) I agree; Bethany wants to be free but would likely disapprove of Anders' methods. (For those who side with Anders, does Bethany express an opinion on Anders' actions?) By doing what he has done, however, I would argue that rather leading the mages to freedom, Anders has led the mages into a war against every non-mage in Thedas. This does not seem like a wise strategy to bring about a world where mages live in freedom with peaceful coexistence with non-mages. (Obviously, Anders cannot foresee the rise of the Inquisition and an Inquisitor who can choose to free mages or send them back to the Circles.)
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2017 17:41:14 GMT
You speak about this Bethany? Seems she happy with the new chance...
Probably Bethany don't likes Anders' tools, but she agree with freedom, and that the people need to drop their fears and to learn to live with mages. Bethany don't likes the Circle. Bethany only accepted her fate, because she don't wanted to be burden or a danger for his family. But not because she agreed with the system. Why many people think, that Bethany is idiot, who likes better to live closed in the prison, without privacy? She want to live as a everyone else. (Fenris also need to learn not to be afraid, he is capable to it.) The Circles not capable to prevents a new arrives of a Black City, the mentality, the thought, the moral can. (As Anders said at Act 1: the freedom of mages will not cause a rising of a new Tevinter) Orsino presented finally, in his despair, that he would be capable to leave the Circle and destroy anything long ago, but he didn't. He tried to protect his people. Tevinter's problem is the slavery and the human sacrifice. In Southern Thedas this is unacceptable (at least the latter...) I agree; Bethany wants to be free but would likely disapprove of Anders' methods. (For those who side with Anders, does Bethany express an opinion on Anders' actions?) By doing what he has done, however, I would argue that rather leading the mages to freedom, Anders has led the mages into a war against every non-mage in Thedas. This does not seem like a wise strategy to bring about a world where mages live in freedom with peaceful coexistence with non-mages. (Obviously, Anders cannot foresee the rise of the Inquisition and an Inquisitor who can choose to free mages or send them back to the Circles.) He just wanted to give a chance. To begin a revolution. To force the mages to fight for themselves. He don't knew the result, just hoped for a better future: "Ten years, a hundred years from now...". He just wanted to awaken the mages, the people. His tools are questionable, his purpose is clearly right. He knew, that so many people will hate him for it, also that he deserves this. People never know a revolution's result, but always try, if the oppression is unbearable. The tools sometimes bloody, sometimes more peaceful. Every revolution, what turned into a war have innocent victims. So: when you said, that this revolution was against every non-mages, you're right, and in addition: against every mages (because mages also died for this), every war and revolutions are against every people, but still: the people starting revolutions, because in their situation don't see other solutions. Anders tried both, but the peaceful solution failed on Elthina. And not only he wanted the revolution. And if the revolution fail? Even nothing will be same as before. And the people will remember, in the worst moments as well, and this give them hope.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2017 17:47:43 GMT
My hopes for a glitch free Trespasser is not happening. I fired up the game just now and found all my custom settings returned to default. I have no idea why this happened when I didn't do anything moddy with the game. Now the second eluvian pass is glitched. P.S. Definitely something screwy is going on. I kept at it and the second pass went off, the party selection came up. But then, combat roll behaved really weirdly. Up until now, when I hit combat roll, the Inq will just roll forward. But now ... the game pause and I get a directional arrow to tell the Inq where to roll??!! What's going on? ! That's a glitch? Sounds like a benefit! haha
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 217 Likes: 285
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Post by bear on Feb 14, 2017 17:54:23 GMT
On my elven mage, Vhaelon, I completed the last mosaics and found the last bottle of booze. Only need to collect one song to have done all Collections quests.
Just now I'm starting on the Descent, as last thing before cory. At lvl 27. That first ogre took aaaaages to kill. And my weapons are all pretty top notch, if I do say so myself. This might take a while..
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