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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 15, 2017 17:13:43 GMT
Not to turn my back on something I just said, but I don't like this feminist approach one hundred percent either. I didn't like how much Neil Druckmann's feminist thinking bled into the character of Nadine in Uncharted 4 for example that she's this strong and not traditional main-featured woman character that has "you can't have this" all over her. She's just there to troll you with feminist ideas or to provocate and push an agenda becuase she just leaves at the end with a statement that sounds like "Tsk, men-issues. I don't share your foolishness" and before that all she ever did was beat the shit out of Drake with her Strong Female Scripted-sequence powers. That's not a proper character. She had no arc. She was in place of a bond-villain's henchman like Jaws but with a self-inserted feminist agenda as the punchline. That did bug me because I found it to be too easy and cheap, and overdone in social media already. You could almost say Nadine was reduced to a meme.
And similarly I don't like it when they decide "Here's a bunch of deliberately anti-ideal women characters" and then that's ALL you have. It can be a statement and we get it, but I think you can become too unsubtle about it. There's nothing wrong with having an hot photo-model woman protagonist at all IMHO, it's just become popular to go against it because it has been fetishised and it has been a really uncanny thing about hollywood and gaming and a trope that deserves to be subverted IMHO. it still bothers me when people complain that the women they're allowed to romance in BioWare games aren't pornstar models but that said, I disagree with the overall notion that it's shameful to have a hot photo-model babe as the face of the game or a movie for that matter.
It's not destructive in itself, it's just worth being challenged and you can certainly challenge the trope without making the fact that you're challenging the message of said character (like Nadine). We have enough Tokenism in gaming as of late as it is.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 15, 2017 17:20:58 GMT
Not to turn my back on something I just said, but I don't like this feminist approach one hundred percent either. I didn't like how much Neil Druckmann's feminist thinking bled into the character of Nadine in Uncharted 4 for example that she's this strong and not traditional main-featured woman character that has "you can't have this" all over her. She's just there to troll you with feminist ideas or to provocate and push an agenda becuase she just leaves at the end with a statement that sounds like "Tsk, men-issues. I don't share your foolishness" and before that all she ever did was beat the shit out of Drake with her Strong Female Scripted-sequence powers. That's not a proper character. She had no arc. She was in place of a bond-villain's henchman like Jaws but with a self-inserted feminist agenda as the punchline. That did bug me because I found it to be too easy and cheap, and overdone in social media already. You could almost say Nadine was reduced to a meme. And similarly I don't like it when they decide "Here's a bunch of deliberately anti-ideal women characters" and then that's ALL you have. It can be a statement and we get it, but I think you can become too unsubtle about it. There's nothing wrong with having an hot photo-model woman protagonist at all IMHO, it's just become popular to go against it because it has been fetishised and it has been a really uncanny thing about hollywood and gaming and a trope that deserves to be subverted IMHO. it still bothers me when people complain that the women they're allowed to romance in BioWare games aren't pornstar models but that said, I disagree with the overall notion that it's shameful to have a hot photo-model babe as the face of the game or a movie for that matter. It's not destructive in itself, it's just worth being challenged. There's nothing wrong with having a hot protagonist. Or supporting characters. And as I said, I'm reasonably certain that the CC will allow for hot-looking Ryders. But I take issue with any character NOT looking like a pinup model as being coyote ugly. I for one think Cassandra was pretty hot despite not being a supermodel in appearance. And I'm probably one of the few people who wished Aveline had been a romance option.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Feb 15, 2017 17:23:58 GMT
Less than 35 days to go and we get minor blips of poorly edited gameplay trailers that are less than 2 minutes long. The Nvidia GeForce gameplay was more insulting than the vga trailer. Is it too much to ask for a proper gameplay reveal? Before Doom released we had multiple gameplay videos 10-20 minutes long showcasing the game months beforehand for a 15hr game. Is Bioware not confident with their product? It's the DAI marketing campaign all over again and I'd expect we get shitty twitch streams of the game nearing launch but come on. Side note: game isn't really wowing me on the graphics department like Witcher 3.
Final poll result: You changed the title of the pool after a fair amount of votes.
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Post by simsimillia on Feb 15, 2017 17:35:43 GMT
I don't get all the hate Dragon Age 2 is getting. I prefer it a lot over Origins. Inquisition is my favourite game of the series. They all have flaws and in my opinion Origins has the worst combat as it quickly becomes a chore and then isn't even cool to look at. I also don't get all the love The Witcher is getting. I played the first game for 90 Minutes...I stopped after that because the combat was absolutely unbearable and the Story up to that point wasn't enough to make me play it anyway. I managed to put about 9 hours into The Witcher 2...same thing again, didn't like the combat at all...didn't help that I didn't like Geralt too, which was an even bigger issue. I didn't even bother with Witcher 3 mostly for the later reason (not liking Geralt), but I don't expect that they suddenly figured out how to get the Combat System to a point where I like it. I recognize it's probs a very good game, but not just for me. It'll be interesting to see if CDPR can deliver on the expectation they build up on their next game. Also, one thing I think many people don't appreciate about Bioware is, that they actually release different games. All games of the Mass Effect series are distinct and are not just a new iteration of the same formula with minor tweaks, like the (yearly) releases of many other game companies. Despite being owned by EA, Bioware is actually quite tame when it comes to shitty market practices. Of course there is the whole "From Ashes DLC" debacle of Mass Effect 3, but at least we don't need a chart for where we get what pre-order bonuses...or are told to pre-order the game before release. Some may sneer at the micro transactions for Multiplayer, BUT the Multiplayer DLC are released for everyone and don't divide the community. Of course there are things I don't like and the Mass Effect 3 ending was so bad it shattered my enjoyment for board based Mass Effect RP. The writers clearly dropped the ball on the Mass Effect series overarching Reaper Plot. But I also think they did excellent on the Genophage and Geth/Quarian conflict. "Someone else, might've gotten it wrong". They also showed in Dragon Age that they can handel an overarching plot and they managed to make it my favourite High Fantasy universe. You stopped playing Witcher 1 because of the combat and the story? And yet you finished and love DAI..... I can tell you that Witcher 1 has a better story than DAI hands down, writing is also superior. That may be true. The important thing is, that the Story didn't manage to pull me in in these first 90 minutes though. I wasn't hooked, instead I was just still thinking how god-awful this combat system was. Also, biojihadines? Really? Why the fuck are you so goddamn antagonistic? Just to troll or are you really that pissed off about Bioware and fans of their games?
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 15, 2017 18:37:21 GMT
I think the thing I'm most skeptical about is the combat.
While mass effect hasn't been the most tactical of games, I was ok with at least doing the quick pause/command and moving them where I wanted (when they listened!)
It seems from what they've talked about is they want you to shy away from pause/command and just let them roam. This concerns me because our apparent starting squad Liam and Cora, seem to be melee focused with charge/shottie and...leap or w/e the hell Liam is going to do with his "overclocked" omniblades.
How....how will they not die constantly?
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 15, 2017 18:38:15 GMT
Also, Cassandra is best DA waifu. Fact
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Post by Cypher on Feb 15, 2017 18:40:33 GMT
And the vast majority of people are not ridiculously hot. And not being ridiculously hot does not consign a person to being a "homely cro-magnon looking jackass" There's an entire spectrum of beauty between the two. And heck even hot people who are scientists, explorers, etc, generally don't do their jobs immaculately coiffed, with perfect makeup and lighting, and wearing outfits that accentuate how sexy they look. They make themselves look professional and presentable enough for getting the job done. 1. No, it doesn't, but seeing as everyone seems to complain about the entire spectrum of beauty whenever a video game character or actor who's even the slightest bit marginally above average gets some sort of focus, people cop attitudes over it, it seems that people want to play as troglodytes. 2. It's a good thing that Sara Ryder isn't wearing makeup, has her hair pulled back, and is wearing some generic ass shirt and pants then.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 15, 2017 18:42:01 GMT
Less than 35 days to go and we get minor blips of poorly edited gameplay trailers that are less than 2 minutes long. The Nvidia GeForce gameplay was more insulting than the vga trailer. Is it too much to ask for a proper gameplay reveal? Before Doom released we had multiple gameplay videos 10-20 minutes long showcasing the game months beforehand for a 15hr game. Is Bioware not confident with their product? It's the DAI marketing campaign all over again and I'd expect we get shitty twitch streams of the game nearing launch but come on. Side note: game isn't really wowing me on the graphics department like Witcher 3.
Final poll result: You changed the title of the pool after a fair amount of votes. Wait, it was the opposite at first?
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Post by Iakus on Feb 15, 2017 18:49:57 GMT
And the vast majority of people are not ridiculously hot. And not being ridiculously hot does not consign a person to being a "homely cro-magnon looking jackass" There's an entire spectrum of beauty between the two. And heck even hot people who are scientists, explorers, etc, generally don't do their jobs immaculately coiffed, with perfect makeup and lighting, and wearing outfits that accentuate how sexy they look. They make themselves look professional and presentable enough for getting the job done. 1. No, it doesn't, but seeing as everyone seems to complain about the entire spectrum of beauty whenever a video game character or actor who's even the slightest bit marginally above average gets some sort of focus, people cop attitudes over it, it seems that people want to play as troglodytes. 2. It's a good thing that Sara Ryder isn't wearing makeup, has her hair pulled back, and is wearing some generic ass shirt and pants then. 1) It's been my experience that people complain that female characters of insufficient hotness (ie less than supermodel degree of beauty) are too "mannish". 2) IMO, Sara looks fine. And better yet, if someone doesn't think she looks fine, we have the power to change it!
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Post by General Mahad on Feb 15, 2017 18:55:20 GMT
What is this supposed to tell me? That in order to be "well-made" and "pretty", a girl has to have oval face, smaller chin, tighter jaw, more proportional lower lip, smaller nose, and more slanted narrower smoky eyes. Should we applaud the pursuit of Hollywood standards of beauty as only legitimate? BioWare certainly does if they hire attractive models to base their PC models on (heh). But that's besides the point, the point is that BioWare despite having close to a decade of facial capture experience still utterly screws up facial capture for Female NPCs and PCs. Maybe BioWare should consult Naughty Dog or QD on proper facial capture.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 15, 2017 18:56:40 GMT
You stopped playing Witcher 1 because of the combat and the story? And yet you finished and love DAI..... I can tell you that Witcher 1 has a better story than DAI hands down, writing is also superior. That may be true. The important thing is, that the Story didn't manage to pull me in in these first 90 minutes though. I wasn't hooked, instead I was just still thinking how god-awful this combat system was. Also, biojihadines? Really? Why the fuck are you so goddamn antagonistic? Just to troll or are you really that pissed off about Bioware and fans of their games? You didn't even complete chapter 1 and I suggest you force yourself to playthrough it since it's a worthwhile game. Combat becomes easier and eventually becomes non-factor when you level up. And the biojihadis deserve to be called biojihadis.
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Post by Sir Thomas "Bullhead" Servo on Feb 15, 2017 19:25:03 GMT
This is a bad thread by a poster with a well-documented history of dumb opinions. There are a lot of BSN veterans here who should know better than to indulge him.
Dutch, the only reason you’re able to (correctly, granted) identify decent writing in the Witcher 3 is because you heard someone smarter and more discerning talking about it, and because of all the tits and blood, you just knew it had to be true. Your insistence that the first game in the series is anything other than a garbage fire bears this out.
The overarching storyline has never been the strong point in Bioware’s games (it’s a weak point in the Witcher, as well as most games if we're being honest), but their character writing remains top notch, and I’m not super worried that MEA will change things there. However, if you feel so strongly that the quality of Bioware games is on the decline, you shouldn’t waste time sharting out your trite-takes here. You should get that message to them directly, in the most effective way you know how.
Maybe buy the game and all the DLC for full price? That’ll show ‘em.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 15, 2017 19:39:54 GMT
A better comparison for the facemodel:
A bit different when there isn't professional lighting, makeup and photoshop isn't it.
Who would have thought, eh.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 15, 2017 19:43:33 GMT
This is a bad thread by a poster with a well-documented history of dumb opinions. There are a lot of BSN veterans here who should know better than to indulge him. Dutch, the only reason you’re able to (correctly, granted) identify decent writing in the Witcher 3 is because you heard someone smarter and more discerning talking about it, and because of all the tits and blood, you just knew it had to be true. Your insistence that the first game in the series is anything other than a garbage fire bears this out. The overarching storyline has never been the strong point in Bioware’s games (it’s a weak point in the Witcher, as well as most games if we're being honest), but their character writing remains top notch, and I’m not super worried that MEA will change things there. However, if you feel so strongly that the quality of Bioware games is on the decline, you shouldn’t waste time sharting out your trite-takes here. You should get that message to them directly, in the most effective way you know how. Maybe buy the game and all the DLC for full price? That’ll show ‘em. >I'm mad that we aren't all biodrones Great stuff. Btw, bioware's character writing isn't top notch stuff and I'm amazed how you can be impressed with the characters they recently shatted out in inquisition. Shows how much you know about decent writing eh?
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 15, 2017 19:46:10 GMT
Biojihadis, when will they ever learn?
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Post by Sir Thomas "Bullhead" Servo on Feb 15, 2017 19:54:50 GMT
>I'm mad that we aren't all biodrones You have, by your own admission, spent more time and money on Inquisition than most "biodrones" here, this one included. A lot of your complaining was done while you were lining up to buy and play the DLC. Generally speaking, you undermine your credibility, is all I'm saying. You also make bad threads, but we've known that for years. I know enough. And TW1 is still a bad hill to die on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 19:57:45 GMT
Hey, I thought you were turned into newt.
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Post by Sir Thomas "Bullhead" Servo on Feb 15, 2017 19:59:04 GMT
Hey, I thought you were turned into newt. I got better.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 15, 2017 20:01:06 GMT
>I'm mad that we aren't all biodrones You have, by your own admission, spent more time and money on Inquisition than most "biodrones" here, this one included. A lot of your complaining was done while you were lining up to buy and play the DLC. Generally speaking, you undermine your credibility, is all I'm saying. You also make bad threads, but we've known that for years. I know enough. And TW1 is still a bad hill to die on. Well then, my opinion matters more than a biojihadis since I've invested more into Bioware than they have. You despise anything critical towards Bioware and their recent sjw tripe of characters they've created. Congrats. Why are you here in my thread? Witcher 1 is by far a better well-written game than inquisition. Characters included.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Feb 15, 2017 20:04:47 GMT
You changed the title of the pool after a fair amount of votes. Wait, it was the opposite at first? Yep Ps: Hi Dutch TM.
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Post by Sir Thomas "Bullhead" Servo on Feb 15, 2017 20:11:18 GMT
Well then, my opinion matters more than a biojihadis since I've invested more into Bioware than they have. You despise anything critical towards Bioware and their recent sjw tripe of characters they've created. Congrats. Why are you here in my thread? That's quite an inference. The villain was especially memorable. Wait, it was the opposite at first? Yep This is hilarious, and thoroughly unsurprising.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 15, 2017 20:15:31 GMT
Well then, my opinion matters more than a biojihadis since I've invested more into Bioware than they have. You despise anything critical towards Bioware and their recent sjw tripe of characters they've created. Congrats. Why are you here in my thread? That's quite an inference. The villain was especially memorable. This is hilarious, and thoroughly unsurprising. Whose the villain in DAI again?
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Post by simsimillia on Feb 15, 2017 20:15:36 GMT
That may be true. The important thing is, that the Story didn't manage to pull me in in these first 90 minutes though. I wasn't hooked, instead I was just still thinking how god-awful this combat system was. Also, biojihadines? Really? Why the fuck are you so goddamn antagonistic? Just to troll or are you really that pissed off about Bioware and fans of their games? You didn't even complete chapter 1 and I suggest you force yourself to playthrough it since it's a worthwhile game. Combat becomes easier and eventually becomes non-factor when you level up. And the biojihadis deserve to be called biojihadis. I played about 8 or 9 hours into the Witcher 2 and dislike Geralt as a charcter. I'm not going to play it. Your nastyness and general attitude does you no credit, though.
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Post by Sir Thomas "Bullhead" Servo on Feb 15, 2017 20:22:51 GMT
Whose the villain in DAI again? Corypheus isn't any more ridiculous and hackneyed than Eredin. What they do with Solas remains to be seen. I feel like a well-read connoisseur of great writing like you should have a better grasp of grammar.
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Post by Amirit on Feb 15, 2017 20:26:32 GMT
What is this supposed to tell me? That in order to be "well-made" and "pretty", a girl has to have oval face, smaller chin, tighter jaw, more proportional lower lip, smaller nose, and more slanted narrower smoky eyes. Should we applaud the pursuit of Hollywood standards of beauty as only legitimate? BioWare certainly does if they hire attractive models to base their PC models on (heh). But that's besides the point, the point is that BioWare despite having close to a decade of facial capture experience still utterly screws up facial capture for Female NPCs and PCs. Maybe BioWare should consult Naughty Dog or QD on proper facial capture. QFTT Exactly! Bioware sends all kind of mixed signal here. They hire beautiful models and show them to everyone, screaming - "our protagonists are the best looking people possible!". Then they make in-game caricature of those gorgeous faces (for some reason, women get it the worst). And mob assembles to defend bad unprofessional work as a statement of justice and truth to the nature. Either stop hiring models (and spend huge money you waste on it for something else) or learn proper lighting and face scanning.
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