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Post by amleth on Feb 21, 2017 12:40:29 GMT
I was expressing what some people felt, personally I have no problems with Cassandra apart from the fact that her writing was horrible and that her romance, Josephine's too, where both cringeworthy as all fuck. That candlelit poetry scene was dripping narm. Furthermore I don't think that the problem is that modern bioware female characters i.e Sera and Cora are ugly, it's more that they are so badly designed as to breach the uncanny valley, and that is a genuine problem (Scott's design is also problematic for that same reason, albeit to a lesser degree) As to your raging, well I'll just leave this here. I loved Josephine's romance for the narminess. I absolutely loved the concluding scene of her romance arc. And I think Josephine is a very attractive female character without needing to be completely flawless in appearance. I also enjoyed Cassandra's romance, and liked the "storybook romantic" side of her. Sera got hit with the ugly stick a few dozen times. Still romanced her on my second playthrough. And I think Cora looks attractive. I'm hoping that she's a romance option for female Ryders (...), but seeing the number of people who scream "LESBIAN!" at her hairstyle despite her being confirmed as a romance option for male Ryders really tells me what the "uncanny valley" problem is really about. But really...on one hand, you have people who are screaming about "SJWs!" and whining because they don't find the female characters attractive (that is, the female characters they acknowledge because Josephine's existence invalidates their argument). On the other hand, you have me who's mocking the attitudes of the other side and pointing out their hypocrisy. And you genuinely think I'm the one who's "triggered"?I'm "triggered" into mocking laughter, that's all I'm "triggered" about. I think that the writing and design is poor and I'm hoping that Bioware would put abit more effort into thing. You're a biodrone apologist who defends anything. So basically what you're saying is that you are allowed your opinions and I'm not allowed mine?
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 21, 2017 12:43:31 GMT
I think that the writing and design is poor and I'm hoping that Bioware would put abit more effort into thing. You're a biodrone apologist who defends anything. So basically what you're saying is that you are allowed your opinions and I'm not allowed mine? You may want to rethink whether or not you belong in a fan forum when you need a derogatory term for people who don't think the games/developer are horrible like you do.
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Post by amleth on Feb 21, 2017 12:52:34 GMT
I think that the writing and design is poor and I'm hoping that Bioware would put abit more effort into thing. You're a biodrone apologist who defends anything. So basically what you're saying is that you are allowed your opinions and I'm not allowed mine? You may want to rethink whether or not you belong in a fan forum when you need a derogatory term for people who don't think the games/developer are horrible like you do. I am a fan. DA:O is one of my favourite games of all time and I loved KOTOR too. However, I'm not blind to the problems bioware's been having of late. And I feel that it isn't too late for bioware to correct it's course by focusing on the things that matter. Better game design and mechanics namely instead of pandering to sjws and politicising their games. I just want them to make good games again, not recreate tumblr
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 13:09:10 GMT
I agree with everything you've said here. In spirit, one could say that ND's games could be used as an example for BioWare. It's just in the technical aspects that the comparisons don't work, since the games are so dissimilar. I wholeheartedly agree that BioWare has failed to innovate, or even keep up with the standard in many cases, and it shows. The employee exit-interviews shared by Link"Guess"ski reaffirm the suspicions that many of us long had, or at least present supporting views from unhappy former employees (not always the best source for info.) Those aren't all old news, either. One was from last summer, so the culture doesn't seem to be getting fixed overnight, if at all. That's the whole reason why that people are leaving because of the top brass are making things difficult and it does affect the company and it explains why that the games looked mediocre and poorly done. It seems BioWare are going down the drain after all. It certainly seems like it could be a contributor. Even if it's being exaggerated, as I've seen happen in workplaces, they still clearly have some issues. There is some type of disconnect, some production employees who need to go, and some leaders who need to go.
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Post by simsimillia on Feb 21, 2017 13:25:20 GMT
You may want to rethink whether or not you belong in a fan forum when you need a derogatory term for people who don't think the games/developer are horrible like you do. I am a fan. DA:O is one of my favourite games of all time and I loved KOTOR too. However, I'm not blind to the problems bioware's been having of late. And I feel that it isn't too late for bioware to correct it's course by focusing on the things that matter. Better game design and mechanics namely instead of pandering to sjws and politicising their games. I just want them to make good games again, not recreate tumblr Game Design and Mechanics has absolutely NOTHING to do with how romance, character design and story are done. It takes just as much time to write a gay character/romance as it takes to write a straight character/romance. Also, pretty much all of Biowares characters are fully realized characters regardless of their sexual orientation. The biggest flaws of Bioware Games are, in my opinion, never the Characters.
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Post by amleth on Feb 21, 2017 13:40:27 GMT
I am a fan. DA:O is one of my favourite games of all time and I loved KOTOR too. However, I'm not blind to the problems bioware's been having of late. And I feel that it isn't too late for bioware to correct it's course by focusing on the things that matter. Better game design and mechanics namely instead of pandering to sjws and politicising their games. I just want them to make good games again, not recreate tumblr Game Design and Mechanics has absolutely NOTHING to do with how romance, character design and story are done. It takes just as much time to write a gay character/romance as it takes to write a straight character/romance. Also, pretty much all of Biowares characters are fully realized characters regardless of their sexual orientation. The biggest flaws of Bioware Games are, in my opinion, never the Characters. Come on all of it takes resources you're being disingenuous, if you are not intertwining narrative and design ala the witcher you are doing it wrong. And the problem with bioware is that they are politicising a mediocre product to say that if you dislike their stuff you are a misogynist and a terrible person
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 13:45:50 GMT
You may want to rethink whether or not you belong in a fan forum when you need a derogatory term for people who don't think the games/developer are horrible like you do. I am a fan. DA:O is one of my favourite games of all time and I loved KOTOR too. However, I'm not blind to the problems bioware's been having of late. And I feel that it isn't too late for bioware to correct it's course by focusing on the things that matter. Better game design and mechanics namely instead of pandering to sjws and politicising their games. I just want them to make good games again, not recreate tumblr I agree in parts with your post, but not with others. I think DAI was distractingly political, at times. I feel they adjusted the setting to accommodate their message. This was awkward. Find a way to fit your message believably into the narrative, or maybe it isn't the place for it. It was still a good game, but it was made a bit less so by this awkwardness. I think DAI's direction reflects the choices of its former Lead Writer, David Gaider (a great writer), and what he felt was important. He and his team chose to go in this direction, and BioWare supported it. I don't particularly like the result, even if I understand the good intentions behind the effort. I've not seen anything of the same awkwardness in ME. I'm not sure that the two IPs can even be compared, in this regard. Now, the point upon which we likely most disagree. I don't believe BioWare's political or social agenda (yes, they clearly do have political/social leanings) has anything to do with their drop in quality. If it does, via workplace politics, it's certainly not tied directly to it. They simply don't make as high quality a product as they used to make. Their writing might have become more politicized, but it's their technical execution that's suffering, in recent years. That's not Krem's doing.
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 21, 2017 13:47:59 GMT
I think DAI was distractingly political, at times. The mere existence of LGBT characters does that to some people. I guess all of the other themes in the other DA games that can be interpreted as "political" aren't a problem until it comes to a subject you have a problem with.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 13:50:41 GMT
I think DAI was distractingly political, at times. The mere existence of LGBT characters does that to some people. I guess all of the other themes in the other DA games that can be interpreted as "political" aren't a problem until it comes to a subject you have a problem with. Did you even read the rest of my post? Try reading past the part where you knee-jerked, and see what I said in the entire post. It had nothing to do with their presence. It was the sloppy writing and cheesy execution.
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Post by amleth on Feb 21, 2017 14:30:29 GMT
I am a fan. DA:O is one of my favourite games of all time and I loved KOTOR too. However, I'm not blind to the problems bioware's been having of late. And I feel that it isn't too late for bioware to correct it's course by focusing on the things that matter. Better game design and mechanics namely instead of pandering to sjws and politicising their games. I just want them to make good games again, not recreate tumblr I agree in parts with your post, but not with others. I think DAI was distractingly political, at times. I feel they adjusted the setting to accommodate their message. This was awkward. Find a way to fit your message believably into the narrative, or maybe it isn't the place for it. It was still a good game, but it was made a bit less so by this awkwardness. I think DAI's direction reflects the choices of its former Lead Writer, David Gaider (a great writer), and what he felt was important. He and his team chose to go in this direction, and BioWare supported it. I don't particularly like the result, even if I understand the good intentions behind the effort. I've not seen anything of the same awkwardness in ME. I'm not sure that the two IPs can even be compared, in this regard. Now, the point upon which we likely most disagree. I don't believe BioWare's political or social agenda (yes, they clearly do have political/social leanings) has anything to do with their drop in quality. If it does, via workplace politics, it's certainly not tied directly to it. They simply don't make as high quality a product as they used to make. Their writing might have become more politicized, but it's their technical execution that's suffering, in recent years. That's not Krem's doing. Hmm, I understand your point, but how should I put it, what irks me is their use of politics as a marketing scheme. Like if you value equality and feminism, then support our product, it's for that reason that so many people here buy into bioware's sales pitch. This leave them able to lazily design a bad game whilst tricking people into thinking that this is a game that represents them.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 14:40:44 GMT
I agree in parts with your post, but not with others. I think DAI was distractingly political, at times. I feel they adjusted the setting to accommodate their message. This was awkward. Find a way to fit your message believably into the narrative, or maybe it isn't the place for it. It was still a good game, but it was made a bit less so by this awkwardness. I think DAI's direction reflects the choices of its former Lead Writer, David Gaider (a great writer), and what he felt was important. He and his team chose to go in this direction, and BioWare supported it. I don't particularly like the result, even if I understand the good intentions behind the effort. I've not seen anything of the same awkwardness in ME. I'm not sure that the two IPs can even be compared, in this regard. Now, the point upon which we likely most disagree. I don't believe BioWare's political or social agenda (yes, they clearly do have political/social leanings) has anything to do with their drop in quality. If it does, via workplace politics, it's certainly not tied directly to it. They simply don't make as high quality a product as they used to make. Their writing might have become more politicized, but it's their technical execution that's suffering, in recent years. That's not Krem's doing. Hmm, I understand your point, but how should I put it, what irks me is their use of politics as a marketing scheme. Like if you value equality and feminism, then support our product, it's for that reason that so many people here buy into bioware's sales pitch. This leave them able to lazily design a bad game whilst tricking people into thinking that this is a game that represents them. Yeah, I do think some people cut them extra slack, because they feel like BioWare is the only company trying to allow them to feel included. I think people would be better off saying, "Thanks for the effort in thinking of us. You know, X could use some improvement...", whatever X may be. One "positive" shouldn't cancel a "negative". Criticism is essential to ensure a quality product.
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 21, 2017 14:44:23 GMT
Hmm, I understand your point, but how should I put it, what irks me is their use of politics as a marketing scheme. Like if you value equality and feminism, then support our product, it's for that reason that so many people here buy into bioware's sales pitch. BioWare doesn't. Not in the slightest. Maybe you're just taking offense to the fact that they talk about LGBT characters and female characters just like they do any other characters, rather than keeping them a secret because you don't want to hear about them.
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Post by Legenlorn on Feb 21, 2017 15:06:04 GMT
Hmm, I understand your point, but how should I put it, what irks me is their use of politics as a marketing scheme. Like if you value equality and feminism, then support our product, it's for that reason that so many people here buy into bioware's sales pitch. BioWare doesn't. Not in the slightest. Maybe you're just taking offense to the fact that they talk about LGBT characters and female characters just like they do any other characters, rather than keeping them a secret because you don't want to hear about them. Reading your conversation I get the feeling that you are trolling. Try reading what people reply to you. Be more open minded. I don't think nor do I feel that people here have something against the inclusion of LGTB. I do however get the feeling (sometimes) that some individuals just was to put the LGTB idea out there in force. But I guess that is fair as well since this is the BSN.
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Post by simsimillia on Feb 21, 2017 15:11:13 GMT
Game Design and Mechanics has absolutely NOTHING to do with how romance, character design and story are done. It takes just as much time to write a gay character/romance as it takes to write a straight character/romance. Also, pretty much all of Biowares characters are fully realized characters regardless of their sexual orientation. The biggest flaws of Bioware Games are, in my opinion, never the Characters. Come on all of it takes resources you're being disingenuous, if you are not intertwining narrative and design ala the witcher you are doing it wrong. And the problem with bioware is that they are politicising a mediocre product to say that if you dislike their stuff you are a misogynist and a terrible person I didn't follow Inquisitions marketing too closely, but I can't remember that that has ever been made a focus of the marketing. Bioware has included non-straight characters in their games at least since Kotor (didn't play any of BWs games prior to Kotor). And as I said before it takes as much ressources to write an LGBT character as takes to write any other. Your argument is basically, that if Dorian, Sera, Iron Bull and Josephine had been straight it would've made Dragon Age: Inquisition a better game or if all the romances in DA2 hadn't been open to all genders the game would've been better. But the biggest flaws of those games have nothing to do with the Characters and how they're written. Narrative through Gameplay has never been Bioware's strong point and from what I played in The Witcher 1 and 2 it isn't CDPR's strong suit either. The biggest complaint about Dragon Age Inquisition is the Open World Design and boring Side Quests. That has nothing to do with the characters. Mass Effect 3 didn't cause a big controversity because of Traynor, Cortez or a Bi Kaida, but because of the Ending. There is way to much focus on the LGBT characters and Bioware's supposed "SJW-Agenda" from the so called "critics" that they fail to realize that the flaws in Bioware Games are elsewhere.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 21, 2017 15:16:08 GMT
In my opinion, too much of the non-combat, RP content of ME3 was segregated into the Citadel hub. There were virtually no non-combat missions in ME3. It's fun game, but I definitely feel it's a weakness. The pacing of the game was somewhat dictated by the storyline; but a number of creative, plot-appropriate interactions could've been worked into the game. Surely you mean that there were virtually no non-combat missions in ME3 that weren't on the Citadel.. Wait, what? I don't see how this makes any sense for ME3 unless you're defining Grissom Academy et al. as main quests rather than sidequests. You can make the case for ME2, but that's because the MQ/SQ classification scheme doesn't fit the game's structure very well.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 21, 2017 15:24:33 GMT
If you want to try to make this case, you're going to have to point to someplace where the marketing actually did what you say it did. Edit: hit by the quote bug again, but we all know what amleth's on about anyway. Is that bug just a mobile thing?
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 15:43:23 GMT
In my opinion, too much of the non-combat, RP content of ME3 was segregated into the Citadel hub. There were virtually no non-combat missions in ME3. It's fun game, but I definitely feel it's a weakness. The pacing of the game was somewhat dictated by the storyline; but a number of creative, plot-appropriate interactions could've been worked into the game. Surely you mean that there were virtually no non-combat missions in ME3 that weren't on the Citadel.. Wait, what? I don't see how this makes any sense for ME3 unless you're defining Grissom Academy et al. as main quests rather than sidequests. You can make the case for ME2, but that's because the MQ/SQ classification scheme doesn't fit the game's structure very well. Yes, that's what I mean. Nearly all of the RP missions were segregated on the Citadel. I'd like to run into these out in the world. As MEA is to be somewhat open-world, I doubt this will be a problem. Good point about Grissom Academy. I'd forgotten about that one. Are there many similar ones of which I'm forgetting? I guess while we're including Jack's mission, we should throw in Jacob and Samara, too. There's not much RP on Lessus, but what's there is good. There's actually more talking, but less depth, on Gellix, in truth.
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Post by disi on Feb 21, 2017 16:42:26 GMT
I looked at some trailers and ingame footage. They always show the same Rylers, young, happy, smiling, babyface?
Will it matter if I change their appearance? Make the facial expressions a little harder than they are in the videos? What was awesome about Shepard is that he looked badass in all titles and never smiled (or did he?). It was just not a game for being happy.
It also says we start as rookie and become real soldiers or pathfinders. Will our face age as well, then it would make sense to me. How long a lifespan is the game?
I loved the Mako in ME1 and looking forward to real planet exploring, driving towards the horizon on a planet with alien orbital objects like two suns and so on. That scene on the ateroid in ME1, stopping the Baterians, was brilliant! (Armageddon)
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 16:51:23 GMT
I looked at some trailers and ingame footage. They always show the same Rylers, young, happy, smiling, babyface? Will it matter if I change their appearance? Make the facial expressions a little harder than they are in the videos? What was awesome about Shepard is that he looked badass in all titles and never smiled (or did he?). It was just not a game for being happy. It also says we start as rookie and become real soldiers or pathfinders. Will our face age as well, then it would make sense to me. How long a lifespan is the game? I loved the Mako in ME1 and looking forward to real planet exploring, driving towards the horizon on a planet with alien orbital objects like two suns and so on. That scene on the ateroid in ME1, stopping the Baterians, was brilliant! (Armageddon) I'm annoyed by the constant, derpy smiling, too. It's generally been Sara that they've shown smiling, and Scott they've shown looking serious. I assume it's just been an unfortunate accident of marketing, or even a conscious marketing choice, that they keep showing us derpy smiles. Our protagonist can't walk around smiling all of the time. Scott's more serious moments suggest a more realistic balance. I don't believe this is a life story, or even a years long tale. I wouldn't expect physical aging, but rather emotional and psychological growth.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 21, 2017 17:24:07 GMT
I mean my tolerance level for bad facial animations is pretty high. Even Horizon, with its gorgeous visuals and high scores from critics, have some pretty hideous facial animations here and there. But I wouldn't personal knock the game down for it.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 21, 2017 17:25:14 GMT
Grunt's mission too, I think.On the lesser side, the Tuchanka turian SQs and maybe Admiral Koris (though rescuing him is so obvious after the conversation with Xen that I hardly think it counts as a choice.) And of course, ME3 had wordcount issues. It had the biggest count of any game in the series by a substantial margin, but it also had the highest level of mandatory expenditures. I don't think I can come up with a better allocation of the existing resources than Bio did.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 21, 2017 17:45:04 GMT
I think that the writing and design is poor and I'm hoping that Bioware would put abit more effort into thing. You're a biodrone apologist who defends anything. So basically what you're saying is that you are allowed your opinions and I'm not allowed mine? You may want to rethink whether or not you belong in a fan forum when you need a derogatory term for people who don't think the games/developer are horrible like you do. Oh I just love these asinine comments. You're essentially implying that real fans are biodrones that suck Bioware off no matter what they do, especially if they are doing things that are objectively shit. Great thought process. Biodrones never learn.
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 21, 2017 17:54:18 GMT
Oh I just love these asinine comments. You're essentially implying that real fans are biodrones that suck Bioware off no matter what they do, especially if they are doing things that are objectively shit. Great thought process. Biodrones never learn. Oh, so the real fans are the people like you who are here to insult people who actually like BioWare games. Thanks for educating me on that.
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Post by crashsuit on Feb 21, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
Duh, everyone knows you're not a real fan if you don't hate the thing you're a fan of
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 21, 2017 19:13:31 GMT
It must suck to remain in a permanent state of pessimism.
I am so glad I'm not like that.
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