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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 7, 2017 19:53:38 GMT
I meant Sarah is the one who starts the flirts. I can think of a few reasons. All I know is I asked Ian about the ambiguous romances and he commented that Suvi's romance was the exact romance he thought of when I asked him. He also said it is his personal favorite romance in the game. But Suvi still flirts back, so... Really? I can't If all they're doing is kissing, they could just awkwardly stop if someone comes in. But if they lock the door, they're going to have to explain why, and it'll make Suvi look... unprofessional I don't know why exactly, but right now I'm so annoyed an ambiguous romances. I'm tired and lonely and depressed and frustrated, so that isn't helping, lol. Optional paths are fine. Great, even. But it's like that feeling of getting picked last for a team in school, or when the teacher says to find a partner for an assignment and you just end up sitting there alone awkwardly, that happened to me all the time. Like you weren't good enough to get as much content as the "main" options. /Tired, over-informative blabbering I'd be more in favor of having there be two paths and having it be optional over ambiguous once Bioware can prove they can actually do the two paths right. If they can do that then I'm all for it as long as the rest of the romance is equal for both routes too, but so far they have not. In DAI, for the romances where it was optional if you opted out you got nothing to replace the sex scene including the characterization in them. As you put it, you weren't deemed as worthy of as much content. And then in MEA, all but one of the romances that has it as optional does the same and then acts like you went the sex route anyway. So far the only one that may have done the two routes well where both are equal and respected is Cora, and that's still up in the air until they are done with Ryder's story either at the end of the DLC cycle or the end of whatever game finishes with them. I'm cautiously optimistic since Cora's writer Jo Berry seems really happy that the non-sex route is so well-received and likes how it allows options for people like those of the ace spectrum, but it's not over until it is over. Meanwhile with the ambiguous romances so far they have a better record of treating both sides equally, and through it the only ace/demi representation in Bioware history has occurred.
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Post by Catilina on May 7, 2017 19:55:13 GMT
I agree. He's a good guy, I like him, as friend and companion, but I disliked, for example, his comment about the Inquisitor's taste at the bed scene. I know, probably he just wanted to say something, but this ...? Eh no matter, I'm sure, someone can explain, how deep was this sentence. (And probably I will follow your path in my next playthrough with bi-Cullen mod.) Are you referring to when he says that the Inquisitor's taste with his quarters is austere? He says that in the post-sex version because he's trying to avoid the conversation of "what happens now?" The very next round of options and responses explains that. The Inquisitor can call him out on being "distracted," after which Dorian admits and explains. He can also say that Dorian can change things if he wants, after which Dorian says, "No, that's not what I want" and explains. I don't remember what the third option is. This ties into the romance banter with Cole, where Cole projects Dorian's thought as, "What if he doesn't want me after?" So that was Dorian's mindset during the whole thing. Yes, I wrote that it will be explained. He could not have said "we have good weather" instead?
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Post by caladrius on May 7, 2017 20:01:15 GMT
I actually think Dorian's dad being assassinated is more interesting if they didn't make up. Mostly because of the inner conflict: He still loves his father, underneath it all, so he feels obligated both out of love and duty to avenge him. But at the same time, they never made up before his father's death and he never got to hear the words he so desperately wanted to hear from him, so there's guilt and spite and bitterness there too. I hope they show a bit of a difference in Dorian regarding his father depending on whether he made up with him or not. It's a missed opportunity otherwise, imo. Hopefully, there'll be that and Tevinter politics in his DA4 storyline. I think they should be careful how they hand that, because it will piss me off if they make it clear that forgiving his father was the "right" choice. I hate that media always puts the onus on LGBT characters to be the bigger person and forgive their shitty, abusive family members. IMO, Dorian's dad didn't deserve forgiveness. What he did was too extreme and he was still trying to manipulate and lie to get Dorian to do what he wanted, even in DA:I. Who knows if he was even genuine? If anything, I'd rather find out he wasn't. I'll be annoyed if we find out Dorian's dad was really a great guy and his assassination was because he was just too good a person for Tevinter's crooked society, while trying to blood magic conversion therapy his son. It's just gross, to me. I'd rather find out he was into some fucked up shit and it was his own fault he got assassinated. I'd rather see Dorian realize his family was crap and he's better off without them.
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 7, 2017 20:03:54 GMT
Are you referring to when he says that the Inquisitor's taste with his quarters is austere? He says that in the post-sex version because he's trying to avoid the conversation of "what happens now?" The very next round of options and responses explains that. The Inquisitor can call him out on being "distracted," after which Dorian admits and explains. He can also say that Dorian can change things if he wants, after which Dorian says, "No, that's not what I want" and explains. I don't remember what the third option is. This ties into the romance banter with Cole, where Cole projects Dorian's thought as, "What if he doesn't want me after?" So that was Dorian's mindset during the whole thing. Yes, I wrote that it will be explained. He could not have said "we have good weather" instead? Pick whatever evasive response you want, the reason behind it is the same. It bothers you for some reason. It doesn't bother me, mainly because my Inquisitor's taste IS "austere" -- I keep the "basic" Skyhold decorations through the whole game -- so that just happens to work out.
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 7, 2017 20:10:27 GMT
I actually think Dorian's dad being assassinated is more interesting if they didn't make up. Mostly because of the inner conflict: He still loves his father, underneath it all, so he feels obligated both out of love and duty to avenge him. But at the same time, they never made up before his father's death and he never got to hear the words he so desperately wanted to hear from him, so there's guilt and spite and bitterness there too. I hope they show a bit of a difference in Dorian regarding his father depending on whether he made up with him or not. It's a missed opportunity otherwise, imo. Hopefully, there'll be that and Tevinter politics in his DA4 storyline. I think they should be careful how they hand that, because it will piss me off if they make it clear that forgiving his father was the "right" choice. I hate that media always puts the onus on LGBT characters to be the bigger person and forgive their shitty, abusive family members. IMO, Dorian's dad didn't deserve forgiveness. What he did was too extreme and he was still trying to manipulate and lie to get Dorian to do what he wanted, even in DA:I. Who knows if he was even genuine? If anything, I'd rather find out he wasn't. I'll be annoyed if we find out Dorian's dad was really a great guy and his assassination was because he was just too good a person for Tevinter's crooked society, while trying to blood magic conversion therapy his son. It's just gross, to me. I'd rather find out he was into some fucked up shit and it was his own fault he got assassinated. I'd rather see Dorian realize his family was crap and he's better off without them. Even if you encourage Dorian to talk to his father in the scene, it can hardly be characterized as them "making up." Dorian explicitly says, "I don't know if I can forgive him," and talks about their relationship in Trespasser as being strained. I think he may have only seen him one time before the assassination. He didn't even know that his father had kept him as the official heir. It's never made known whether Dorian has forgiven him, or not. I tend to think not. That trust was forever broken, and I don't ever think it could be repaired.
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Post by Catilina on May 7, 2017 20:14:11 GMT
I actually think Dorian's dad being assassinated is more interesting if they didn't make up. Mostly because of the inner conflict: He still loves his father, underneath it all, so he feels obligated both out of love and duty to avenge him. But at the same time, they never made up before his father's death and he never got to hear the words he so desperately wanted to hear from him, so there's guilt and spite and bitterness there too. I hope they show a bit of a difference in Dorian regarding his father depending on whether he made up with him or not. It's a missed opportunity otherwise, imo. Hopefully, there'll be that and Tevinter politics in his DA4 storyline. I think they should be careful how they hand that, because it will piss me off if they make it clear that forgiving his father was the "right" choice. I hate that media always puts the onus on LGBT characters to be the bigger person and forgive their shitty, abusive family members. IMO, Dorian's dad didn't deserve forgiveness. What he did was too extreme and he was still trying to manipulate and lie to get Dorian to do what he wanted, even in DA:I. Who knows if he was even genuine? If anything, I'd rather find out he wasn't. I'll be annoyed if we find out Dorian's dad was really a great guy and his assassination was because he was just too good a person for Tevinter's crooked society, while trying to blood magic conversion therapy his son. It's just gross, to me. I'd rather find out he was into some fucked up shit and it was his own fault he got assassinated. I'd rather see Dorian realize his family was crap and he's better off without them. Yes. True. All. But I chose the "forgiving way" too. It's rather for him, not for his father. Inquisitor only suggests, a chance to speak about with him. This is not redemption: he's same dirty man, as was before, this only a chance to Dorian to get rid of this. And I'm a big fan of the second chance. But this is just me, and maybe I can forgive, but not forget.
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dgcatanisiri
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 7, 2017 20:23:31 GMT
I think they should be careful how they hand that, because it will piss me off if they make it clear that forgiving his father was the "right" choice. I hate that media always puts the onus on LGBT characters to be the bigger person and forgive their shitty, abusive family members. IMO, Dorian's dad didn't deserve forgiveness. What he did was too extreme and he was still trying to manipulate and lie to get Dorian to do what he wanted, even in DA:I. Who knows if he was even genuine? If anything, I'd rather find out he wasn't. I'll be annoyed if we find out Dorian's dad was really a great guy and his assassination was because he was just too good a person for Tevinter's crooked society, while trying to blood magic conversion therapy his son. It's just gross, to me. I'd rather find out he was into some fucked up shit and it was his own fault he got assassinated. I'd rather see Dorian realize his family was crap and he's better off without them. Yes. True. All. But I chose the "forgiving way" too. It's rather for him, not for his father. Inquisitor only suggests, a chance to speak about with him. This is not redemption: he's same dirty man, as was before, this only a chance to Dorian to get rid of this. And I'm a big fan of the second chance. But this is just me, and maybe I can forgive, but not forget. I am firmly a 'forgiveness is earned, not given' kind of person - I get Dorian the fuck out of there ASAP, because everything about that situation smacks of set up, that his father has learned his actions were wrong, but not the motivations behind them. Between the manipulation to get him out there, the lack of an apology (unless you the Inquisitor prompt him for one by making Dorian stay when he doesn't want to), and the fact that he basically wants Dorian to 'stop making a scene' all through that encounter... It says to me that this is yet another manipulation, and the next toe out of line will result in the situation falling back into the same pattern. No one who has been abused is required to forgive or interact with their abuser, and I'll be damned if I do that. And anyone trying to enforce that as the 'right' choice in the matter can go straight to hell, BioWare included.
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Post by Catilina on May 7, 2017 20:23:55 GMT
Yes, I wrote that it will be explained. He could not have said "we have good weather" instead? Pick whatever evasive response you want, the reason behind it is the same. It bothers you for some reason. It doesn't bother me, mainly because my Inquisitor's taste IS "austere" -- I keep the "basic" Skyhold decorations through the whole game -- so that just happens to work out. No, this isn't same, but no matter. (I like more the sandwich version in DA2...)
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Post by caladrius on May 7, 2017 20:30:07 GMT
Yes. True. All. But I chose the "forgiving way" too. It's rather for him, not for his father. Inquisitor only suggests, a chance to speak about with him. This is not redemption: he's same dirty man, as was before, this only a chance to Dorian to get rid of this. And I'm a big fan of the second chance. But this is just me, and maybe I can forgive, but not forget. I am firmly a 'forgiveness is earned, not given' kind of person - I get Dorian the fuck out of there ASAP, because everything about that situation smacks of set up, that his father has learned his actions were wrong, but not the motivations behind them. Between the manipulation to get him out there, the lack of an apology (unless you the Inquisitor prompt him for one by making Dorian stay when he doesn't want to), and the fact that he basically wants Dorian to 'stop making a scene' all through that encounter... It says to me that this is yet another manipulation, and the next toe out of line will result in the situation falling back into the same pattern. No one who has been abused is required to forgive or interact with their abuser, and I'll be damned if I do that. And anyone trying to enforce that as the 'right' choice in the matter can go straight to hell, BioWare included. I absolutely agree with this.
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dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 171 Likes: 824
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 7, 2017 20:32:24 GMT
I admit, perhaps I would like Dorian better if the fangirls do not "adore" him so much... but maybe that's just my idiot thing. It's no problem, that they love him, but he's not their "perfect sad gay boyfriend". (I can't wording better my feeling.) I hate to say it, but the "tragic gay" background never sits well with me. I've heard it countless times over the years, because lots of gay people have had that problem, but I'm not so interested in it in my game play. (Compassionate in RL, though.) I suppose it means a lot of people can relate to it but I'm not one of them. It's why I used a mod to romance Cullen. That said, I do like Dorian as a character. He's a little over the top for my tastes but he's reliable, trustworthy and doesn't take shit from anyone. A good guy all around. I WISH I had the bi!Cullen mod. Stupid consoles... Seriously, I say this every time I play Inquisition, I needed Cullen as a male romance option more than a dozen each of Bull or Dorian. I mean, it goes back to what I said before (again) about how gay characters are asked to be everything when they can't, but... In my case, I needed a character like Cullen to specifically show and tell me, someone who relates very much to his story and struggles, that it will be all right, that someone could love me, in the way that I want to be loved. I get nothing out of seeing Cullen and a female Inquisitor, because I will never have a romantic relationship with a woman, so the message I walk away from with is 'sure, finding love is possible, if you settle for a relationship you have no desire to have.' THAT is the power of stories, and why we NEED to get away from the tragic gay storylines.
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Post by Catilina on May 7, 2017 20:35:36 GMT
Yes. True. All. But I chose the "forgiving way" too. It's rather for him, not for his father. Inquisitor only suggests, a chance to speak about with him. This is not redemption: he's same dirty man, as was before, this only a chance to Dorian to get rid of this. And I'm a big fan of the second chance. But this is just me, and maybe I can forgive, but not forget. I am firmly a 'forgiveness is earned, not given' kind of person - I get Dorian the fuck out of there ASAP, because everything about that situation smacks of set up, that his father has learned his actions were wrong, but not the motivations behind them. Between the manipulation to get him out there, the lack of an apology (unless you the Inquisitor prompt him for one by making Dorian stay when he doesn't want to), and the fact that he basically wants Dorian to 'stop making a scene' all through that encounter... It says to me that this is yet another manipulation, and the next toe out of line will result in the situation falling back into the same pattern. No one who has been abused is required to forgive or interact with their abuser, and I'll be damned if I do that. And anyone trying to enforce that as the 'right' choice in the matter can go straight to hell, BioWare included. This is true! But the speak isn't forgiveness yet, only a chance to face the situation and his father. No more. And this can help to get rid of the past. (But I said, I really hate this teaching tale-quest?)
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 7, 2017 20:45:03 GMT
Having a gay man in video games is much more controversial than having a lesbian in one, and everyone knows exactly why. Remember Tracer from Overwatch? How there was controversy? Now picture the pushback if one of the male characters was revealed to be gay (or, heaven forbid, trans) instead. Openly gay men are still a big controversy in games, ME:A is living proof. Also, Dorian is an important character to David Gaider, who was the lead writer in Inquisition. He probably talked more about Dorian because of how personal it was to him as a gay man. It is the same really... sure there are different levels of controversy for different reasons but everyone gets shit for being other than straight. It's the first time I see this, so precious!!!!!! SHES OURS NOW hAHAHAHAHA
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Post by Sifr on May 7, 2017 21:00:55 GMT
Just like how no one cared that FemShep was with Liara but some were horrified with the thought of mShep with Kaidan. I think most of the people who weren't happy with the Kaidan situation were because he'd only previously shown interest in women. It probably wouldn't have been as much of an issue if they had canonically established him as Bi from the first game. That said, it would have meant having to put m/m romance dialogue back into the game, since it'd have been unfair to establish him as Bi and then make him a female only LI. People had similar complaints about Anders being revealed as Bi in DA2, feeling it was a departure from how he was portrayed in Awakening. Although with Anders, he was flirty with pretty much everyone in Awakening and you can definitely read some subtext in the following lines during a conversation with Nathaniel. Nathaniel: You don't always wear robes, do you? Anders: * Slyly* Not when I'm naked I don't. I think that Bioware not having Kaidan as a bi romance was due to when the game came out, since neither DAO or ME1 had any fully gay or lesbian romance options, requiring you to romance bisexual characters if you wanted a same-sex romance. If the first game came out today, they'd definitely have included the Kaidan romance for male Shepard.
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Post by Catilina on May 7, 2017 21:10:08 GMT
Just like how no one cared that FemShep was with Liara but some were horrified with the thought of mShep with Kaidan. I think most of the people who weren't happy with the Kaidan situation were because he'd only previously shown interest in women. It probably wouldn't have been as much of an issue if they had canonically established him as Bi from the first game. That said, it would have meant having to put m/m romance dialogue back into the game, since it'd have been unfair to establish him as Bi and then make him a female only LI. People had similar complaints about Anders being revealed as Bi in DA2, feeling it was a departure from how he was portrayed in Awakening. Although with Anders, he was flirty with pretty much everyone in Awakening and you can definitely read some subtext in the following lines during a conversation with Nathaniel. Nathaniel: You don't always wear robes, do you? Anders: * Slyly* Not when I'm naked I don't. Even in Awakening many people whines about Anders approve appeared as love:
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Post by Sifr on May 7, 2017 21:14:22 GMT
Ser Pounce-a-lot. The only pussy that Anders gets in Awakening and only male character he lets under his robes.
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N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on May 7, 2017 21:16:38 GMT
Just like how no one cared that FemShep was with Liara but some were horrified with the thought of mShep with Kaidan. I think most of the people who weren't happy with the Kaidan situation were because he'd only previously shown interest in women. I guess, but that's not even unusual for gay or bi men. Unless they come out as teenagers, they very likely pretended to express interest in women (or, if bi, it was genuine) and then one day also expressed interest in men. Real life on your video game screen.
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Avitus one day... ONE DAY.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by coldchrome on May 7, 2017 21:20:16 GMT
I think most of the people who weren't happy with the Kaidan situation were because he'd only previously shown interest in women. I guess, but that's not even unusual for gay or bi men. Unless they come out as teenagers, they very likely pretended to express interest in women (or, if bi, it was genuine) and then one day also expressed interest in men. Real life on your video game screen. Kaiden headcannon (to me at least), is that he realises how much Msheppard actually meant to him after he left him on Horizon, and has been struggling with his on feelings towards MSheppard, and after seeing him again he realises how much MShep means to him and that he loves Shep for who he is, not for the fact that he is a pussie or a dick.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 21:22:31 GMT
I think most of the people who weren't happy with the Kaidan situation were because he'd only previously shown interest in women. I guess, but that's not even unusual for gay or bi men. Unless they come out as teenagers, they very likely pretended to express interest in women (or, if bi, it was genuine) and then one day also expressed interest in men. Real life on your video game screen. Weird. The first person I explicitly expressed interest in was a guy. He was luscious and dark and full. Later on I saw a girl I liked and thought damn she'll do for me. But I was a pretty strange kid. Hahaha.
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I was called Ryder before it was cool... ...I'd love to, you know, be social and things.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on May 7, 2017 21:33:28 GMT
*A less tired Banshee approaches* So, remember how I was planning on tweeting something to Katy Townsend? Help me choose a draft. 1. Thank you for bringing Suvi, my favourite Mass Effect character, to life! I find her very relatable, and she and Sara are adorable together (smiley here) 2. Suvi has become my favourite Mass Effect character, and your performance was a huge part of that! Thank you and well done (smiley here) 3. You have a marvelous voice. Also, the accent. The accent is... I mean, it’s not the only thing, but... uh. Hearing you say my name is just... *Swoon*WHYCAN’TIHAVEACOOLACCENTLIKEYOU?GAHOkay, ignoring the joke, which one should I go with or change? Spoken quickly: I may be fangirling a little but I'm trying not to sound like a creepy fangirl, you know? And, like, I'm trying to decide if I should keep my Rowan avatar on twitter or change it to the one I have here. But does having Suvi in the picture make it cool, or creepy? She probably won't even notice either way. And which shoes should I wear? Does this lipstick match my jacket?God, I am so incredibly awkward. I overthink everything And she's TheCheekyScot, right? Also, does writing the account name of the person you're tweeting take up character slots? 140 isn't a lot to work with.
Ketchup Catch-up time.
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N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
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Post by dmc1001 on May 7, 2017 21:39:50 GMT
I guess, but that's not even unusual for gay or bi men. Unless they come out as teenagers, they very likely pretended to express interest in women (or, if bi, it was genuine) and then one day also expressed interest in men. Real life on your video game screen. Kaiden headcannon (to me at least), is that he realises how much Msheppard actually meant to him after he left him on Horizon, and has been struggling with his on feelings towards MSheppard, and after seeing him again he realises how much MShep means to him and that he loves Shep for who he is, not for the fact that he is a pussie or a dick. Pansexual is what I think fits here. He's fallen for the person regardless of that person's sex. Could be Shepard is the only man he could love. I sometimes term this as "ShepardSexual". (Pretty sure I heard it somewhere else first.)
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Post by dmc1001 on May 7, 2017 21:41:00 GMT
BansheeOwnage: I like both but I go with option #2. Or say it all!
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Post by Catilina on May 7, 2017 21:41:38 GMT
Ser Pounce-a-lot. The only pussy that Anders gets in Awakening and only male character he lets under his robes. Haha, I like you!
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Post by coldchrome on May 7, 2017 21:44:56 GMT
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Post by Sifr on May 7, 2017 21:47:35 GMT
I guess, but that's not even unusual for gay or bi men. Unless they come out as teenagers, they very likely pretended to express interest in women (or, if bi, it was genuine) and then one day also expressed interest in men. Real life on your video game screen. Yeah, there's nothing definitive that Kaidan was supposed to be straight in the first two games, nor that Kaidan couldn't have been interested in Male Shepard. He may have simply found it harder to express his interest than he did with FemShep, that's not really surprising. (It's not like he's alone in that regard, we learned in ME2 that Tali was also secretly crushing hard on Male Shep during the first game) We saw something similar in DAO where Leliana was more proactive when flirting with a female Warden, despite her still being interested in a male Warden. All the important relationships that Leliana has had (good or bad) have been with women, so it's understandable why she's more comfortable flirting with a female Warden. Even if someone is bisexual and attracted to both sexes, they might express more interest in one gender than another, simply down to personal preference or what they look for in a romantic partner? Then again, you might arrange to go out with an attractive women who caught your eye, only to find yourself hooking up with her male roommate after the date with her was a complete bust. There's no real exact science when it comes to who people are attracted to and what they find attractive about one another.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 21:50:10 GMT
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