The Character Romance thread (Official)

Evfra didn't instantly click for me in the same way that Kandros did (the whole 'I was the good one' thing really worked well for how I pictured the Ryder family dynamics), but I can see why he'd be easy to latch on to - harsh because his experiences have told him to be distrustful of these invading aliens who speak nice words but could be hiding something sinister (plus if Reyes is a contact for the angaran resistance, he's probably had dealings with the Exiles, which won't paint the Initiative or humans in general in a positive light). Like... the kett's arrival totally scarred the angarans for life at a time they were already vulnerable, because of the Scourge. I can totally see why people would gravitate to the idea of helping him see humanity in a more positive light.

And, more broadly, making Evfra a gay romance (beyond being a pipe dream) wouldn't be cutting content for women, who already have access to Jaal's romance, as opposed to, for example, making Jaal gay, rather than bi. Considering how little content is for gay men in general, even before getting to how shitty it is that in ten years there has yet to be a single gay or bi male alien in the series, while Liara was an option from day one (even if her romance skewed towards a male Shepard)... Yeah, I get why this is a thing.

As for the patch, I'm honestly not gonna get my hopes up - this is probably oriented mostly for multiplayer, we MIGHT get a few expanded cutscenes, but actual genuine content fixes? Not likely. The 'within two months' thing came out in late March/early April, I would expect more of that in the patch after this one, not now.

I find it funny how people rag on the more unfriendly angara, like Evfra and at times the Moshae, as if they have 0.01 reasons to be nice to you from the get-go. Evfra is an ass to you because why shouldn't he be? The Nexus people came to settle angara planets, that's what they say they're here to do, and it's not like they ever asked the angara how they felt about their galaxy being infested by yet another bunch of aliens. You're here now, and you'll need somewhere to live, so there's nothing the angara can really do about it because even if they don't want it their military is shot to pieces. But the last first contact situation didn't go so well for the angara, as I'm sure you noticed. Then there is the fact that Sloane Kelly has already made a case for the Nexus people as untrustworthy because at first she helped the angara on Kadara, but then she installed herself as the leader and kicked out the people who couldn't pay protection fees into the badlands. So if the angara generally seem leery of you, there's one person to thank.

There's reasons enough to like Evfra, if you'd like me to list some. They don't have to be your reasons, but you did ask what people see in him, so here goes: If you choose to keep the angara AI, he's actually the one who convinces the Aya mayor to keep the embassies open and trust you. You can talk to him after missions and have relatively civil and interesting conversations, and he'll even compliment you sometimes. At the end of the game, via Jaal, he says that the angara and Nexus species are lucky to have each other. If you meet that angara woman who was assaulted by Nexus people on Elaaden, she says he's talked to her and told her she's a warrior, obviously trying to help her feel worthy again, and Jaal also says one of his strengths is that he understands "a fighter's heart", so he's not just a general, but also someone who tries to keep people motivated and hopeful, even though he himself had every reason to give up hope, losing his family to the kett. If you are honest with him (for example about SAM), he will rightly commend you for that. He's the epitome of the truth that a decent person doesn't have to be a nice person, and some people don't mind that he's grumpy (also, if you like that kind of dry humour, he's arguably funny; I find sarcastic cynics on a whole much more entertaining than friendly lovely people, maybe because I am also one of the former).

Now, it's completely fair to dislike him for being an asshole, but he's not an idealistic racist like Akksul, which makes him interesting to me. In fact, the game pretty much builds them up as parallels: They are both men who have suffered badly at the hands of the kett and, in response, became leaders of a paramilitary faction inside the angara. Both are described by others as inspiring leaders. Both are wary of and hostile to outsiders at first, but if you work to win Evfra's favour, he will be practical and bit by bit put more trust in the Nexus people, whereas the one thing that should win Akksul's favour (rescuing his former teacher, the Moshae) completely fails to sway him because he's way too far down his road. Evfra realises early enough that not working with the new aliens will hurt the people he's trying to protect in the long run, whether he thinks it's a risky thing to do or not; whereas Akksul blindly rushes on until he's at a point where he himself is hurting his people in some misguided effort to protect them (both literally by shooting Jaal, and figuratively by blowing up the Forge).

I'm sorry, I just had to reiterate that, because the narrative mirroring of Evfra and Akksul is one of the pieces of writing in this game that actually works, in my opinion.

Because compassion and tolerance are reasons in themselves? Because lumping all members of an enormous group together as a monolith is obviously foolhardy? 

I knew a man once who hated all members of a race because the only one he'd ever known had stolen from him. That was wrong and petty and shortsighted, however rational it might have felt to him. Victimhood provides context for prejudice, but it doesn't render it just. 



I did, and thank you offering a list--strangely aggressive and rant-heavy as it was for a response to an honest, non-rhetorical question. 

I don't see the problem with his story arc either, so it's fortunate I never even came close to complaining about it. This wasn't some sneaky method of mine to frame a rhetorical rant about a character, it was genuine curiosity and a desire to understand other people's point of view.  

Hello there!


No time to catch up or make a long post tonight, sadly (and then everyone secretly sighs in relief). So, all I can really say is that I hope the patch has at least something in the way of improvements in it, not just fixes, whether it be for the CC or m/m content. If they wait too long for these core features, most people will be done their playthroughs except for DLC.

I don't expect this to be the fabled improvements patch, though, unfortunately. Hopefully it fixes InvisiRyder in movie night. And honestly, I'm pretty pessimistic about the m/m and CC improvements regardless. There are a lot of easy and relatively easy things they could do on both counts to make the situation better, but sadly I feel like they'll do less than modders. If I had more time, I'd rant about all of the CC features that would be really easy to add and should have been in the base game You'll just have to imagine the rant /Baneshee

Did someone mention long hair options for Scott? Why the heck didn't they give both twins all the hair options? Didn't they say they would? As long as that approach doesn't become an excuse for a lower number of overall options, it's the way to go. *Sigh* That could definitely be patched...

Is that glitch related to the one that makes Suvi's romance-specific greetings not trigger? Oh, that's not a thing? Fine then  Add that in DLC Bioware pls.

Jokes aside, I still think that bi Jaal would be a restoration rather than a retcon.

In my opinion, that would make you a great politician

I agree, it's a restoration of the original vision for the character, not a retcon or ruining the character (those people are just bad people that think that last one).   I think it's the only realistic way to restore balance to the romance equation-honestly. 

Unfortunately the same metric that would justify making jaal bi could easily be used for suvi if she also has Scott lines/models/was listed in an official guide as a romance option at one point. Frankly that's a Pandora's box I don't want bioware to open. We are vastly outnumbered by the straight men who would clamour for them to patch suvi and traynor as fuckable by their male protags and bioware definitely isn't capable of making the nuanced distinction that needs.

What would mostly avoid that is having jaal be bi in mea2 if he's still a squadmate (or mea3) but again, they would probably do the same with suvi were that to happen. They're both the only romance options who don't explicitly cite sexuality when turning you down, so they're equally fair game. Not to mention they really hammered home jaal's attraction to women at every possible opportunity. Personally I would rather bioware create an exclusively gay male alien squadmate for the next game. Preferably a quarian! Really sold on that idea for some reason.

I don't think she is arguing that they are the same or even similar, but that she don't trust Bioware to make that distinction which is understandable.

I seriously doubt even BioWare would not understand such simple concepts. If they made Suvi Bi it wouldn't be because they thought it was fair. 

Maybe not initially, but do you not think that sort of community would not react to making Jaal bi and make the connection, and then protest just as hard as we did for Suvi? Do you think Bioware, or EA, would risk that audience by not satiating their demands as well?

This is the infinite problem of trying to appeal to two extremely different communities at once imo

I like the idea of 4 or 6 bisexual romances with an even split of genders.  It's fair and everyone gets at least one important character romance.  The whole has to make sense system has been used to give the worst content to gay males over and over again.