The Character Romance thread (Official)

That was a while ago though. They haven't been forthcoming with said improvements or even elaborations on what those improvements are. You should keep the heat on, in a very calm and polite way.

The most common example I use is when people were talking about how romances should at least a little bit cater to the fantasy of the group the romance was intended for. As a result I suggested that Cora should cater to straight males, because that's who the romance is intended for.

I was met with a lot of stuff that amounted to "ew straight guy fantasy" and even somebody who said "A lot of straight men fantasize about rape. Why don't we just add that?". It was a fair bit of vitriol being thrown around on that one.

There was also a time when somebody straight up twisted my words and attacked me over it when they hadn't even bothered to read the entire post which explained that my opinion was the exact opposite of what they were attacking me for.

I don't see those as straight versus gay, though. I don't like seeing remarks like yours (about Cora) as a woman and a feminist. That is how you get into the "Cassandra looks like a man, and HERE are some elaborate charts showing you why!" kind of garbage that is misogynistic. It's a very slippery slope.

This isn't Skyrim where you can have your waifu; Bioware characters are much more involved than that. People can have their preferences, to be sure, I certainly have my own, but there does come a point where you have to respect that this is also a character apart from the romance. That's not the point of Cora's existence in the game.


[edit] As for that last bit, that person is just a moron.

I don't see how any of this is supposedly "heterophobic" in the same way of telling gay players they should be grateful for whatever they get.

And so it should. Just as a gay romance should cater to gay players, and probably not have stuff about a duty to procreate in it (which is separate from the desire to want a family/children in your gay relationship).

But let's be real here. Most of the criticism levied against Cora was about her appearance, her hair in particular, and how she looked like a lesbian. So, without mentioning appearance at all, how would the romance itself cater to straight men?

I'm not a straight man, so I'm happy to be educated on this front on what they think is ideal.

I agree. The romances for a certain orientation should cater to people of those orientations. Gil's should cater to gay men, Suvi's to lesbians, Cora's to straight men, and so on. 

I'm not a straight man, so I'm probably not the best qualified to answer your question.

Fair enough. Thank you.

#StillBitterAboutAlistair2K17  

I hope DA4 does not disappoint. 

#StillSlightlyBitterAboutCullen2K17

Here's hoping.

Please don't be another disappointment!

So... what's the first thing?

The reason why catering to straight men isn't the same as catering to gay men or any other orientation is that catering to straight men is frequently synonymous with misogyny. Lots of what centers around straight male desire in this world is fundamentally rooted in a devaluing of women as anything other than objects for male desire, and as fundamentally very susceptible to male control. This is pretty basic, obvious stuff. The camera zooming in on Cora as she winces during the exact moment of penetration because the totally hetero Scott has a huge dick is a misogynistic moment. Cora saying things like "don't be charming when I'm mad at you" plays into straight male desires about how their charm can woo women out of facing consequences for their actions, the whole loveable rogue thing is very rooted in a sexism. There is no equivalent system in place for gay male fantasies within bioware as it is overwhelmingly clear the devs for MEA are all straight men. When they animate Cora's ass and linger on it lovingly to titillate straight dudes, they're going an extra mile they'd never go for any other group and feeding into objectification of women in the process. When they don't follow through on m/m improvements but take the time to add makeup to Sara because straight men complained she's ugly, that's feeding into misogynistic straight male fantasies that women are always peak fuckable all the time, even in wars and comas, as demonstrated by countless apocalypse TV shows where all the women still have perfectly shaved body hair just to name one example. That's what makes it stand out as incomparable to any other orientation. Reyes doesn't get a scene where the camera lingers on his bare ass for ten minutes, and it never would. What gay men fantasise about isn't considered a priority whatsoever. What straight men fantasise about, no matter the sexist consequences that might entail, is priority number 1.

As a woman I am appalled at this, yet I agree that it was done for the reasons you posted, and understand and accept this is what they do.

Interestingly enough, Jaal's romance has taken heat too because he calls Sara a "Temptress" and some women have rioted over that, and said his romance is about seducing Sara into sex and then he's done with her.