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Post by toomanyclouds on May 11, 2017 22:18:08 GMT
I always compare Jaal to Cole. Both say things that are a bit too bold or unacceptable sometimes. They also have a similar fighting style with their daggers. I want to know why Jaal is that way, considering just about every other Angara is capable of utilizing internal editors and proper decorum. Cole was written as admittedly being on the spectrum, and is a spirit, so he has an excuse. WTF happened with Jaal? I think it's more a case of wtf happened with everyone else because I do think they intended that to be a species-wide trait, but then kind of forgot about it writing most NPCs. If we're being generous, it might also be because we just don't know any of the other angara well enough. Jaal did need like two conversations to open up. Maybe it's also the choice of angara we see. Moshae, Evfra, the Aya governor whose name I can't spell right as well as Akksul all fall somewhere on the spectrum of politician (or cult leader, in the latter case), which means they probably have an above-average level of self-control and, as you put it, internal editing. There are a couple of good scenes which showcase how this stuff could be written. I'm quite partial to the moment when Jaal meets his brother who wants to hug him, then Jaal punches him, then the brother kind of goes in for a punch but they hug instead, and all without dialogue. It's kind of funny because you'd expect there to be some sort of conversation first with most people, or at least either a punch or a hug, but if they really are more about emotions, that rapid succession of conflicting feelings playing out in these physical actions would make sense to both of them as normal behaviour. Sadly, that was one of the few scenes in the game that demonstrated it so organically. But then again, even Ryder says on Meridian that Jaal seems more open than most other angara and he doesn't even deny it. I mean, there is the Avela romance to compare, but that is just such a bit of nothing content that very little can be read from it. She kisses Scott impulsively, I guess? |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 11, 2017 22:18:56 GMT
One reason I'm not too upset about Dorian/Bull in comparison to my own Dorian romance is because having it be between two NPCs is easier to control for the writers. While there is some, you can't have a lot of auto-dialogue with the PC because it takes away from roleplay. I value my roleplay a great deal, and I would NOT want the game controlling how I react to my romantic partner. With almost all of the banter in the main game, the Inquisitor is a passive audience, with a few exceptions along the way (two for Dorian banters in the main game). There was a fun Trespasser banter with the Inquisitor where Dorian suggests sleeping in one of the fancy beds in the Winter Palace, and the Inquisitor can during that one. That's my logical reason, anyway. But I am able to admit that I'm not immune from salt when I let my emotions override that logic. It's a pretty constant war in my own mind. Then I go off and read my own fanfic and feel a little better. Aside from all that, I'm still annoyed that the Cole banter about the Dorian romance never triggers for me; it's broken in some way. It's arguably the best one because Cole remarks on his happiness. Dorian does have a lot of little moments that make me confident with the relationship, and I don't mind his issues and quirks, as other players do.  I didn't feel like there was much closure for the Dorian romance in DA:I, personally, since he goes to Tevinter no matter what. I hope they at least update us on how the long distance relationship is going and give us some closure through him talking about returning to be with the Inquisitor in DA4. That is, if they don't kill him off for the sake of drama. There are two things here. The first is that he has the crystal. The second is the romance epilogue slide that specifically states that the Inquisitor sneaks "into the heart of Tevinter" to help him out. So they're together and they do see each other occasionally. There can't really be true closure because we have this upcoming game. My fear is that they will make Dorian a martyr for his country. By updates, I mean more in DA4. I don't feel like being told "now they're in a long distance relationship because politics" is closure, personally. And I understand why they did it (since, yes, as you said, they need him to be in Tevinter for the plot), I just mean that Sollavellans aren't the only ones w/o closure in a romance. But I digress. I think the worst case for any of us Dorian fans is them having Dorian killed off no matter what, which not only feeds into the Bury Your Gays trope but also takes away choice from the player when they could easily give us the option to save him. |
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cespar
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Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MysteryCespar
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Post by cespar on May 11, 2017 22:19:07 GMT
I'm nearing the end of PT2 as Sara Ryder. - Romance #1 was Vetra
- Romance #2 was Peebee
Any suggestions for the next best romance for Sara for PT3, I'd like my achievement*?
*yes I know that's not yet available to all, hope that works out...Liam. Liam all the way. You mentioned Liam... right? Liam. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 22:19:55 GMT
Suvi to keep the female theme going haha If I did that, Sara would still deny faith as my Ryder is high logical/science - hope that won't stuff up the romance  Haha I never thought of that. My Sara is like Suvi with her beliefs. If it fails, you have Liam, Jaal and Reyes at least! |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 11, 2017 22:21:45 GMT
Suvi to keep the female theme going haha If I did that, Sara would still deny faith as my Ryder is high logical/professional - hope that won't stuff up the romance In that case, Keri. That way you get the achievement through f/f alien relationships. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 11, 2017 22:22:15 GMT
I'm nearing the end of PT2 as Sara Ryder. - Romance #1 was Vetra
- Romance #2 was Peebee
Any suggestions for the next best romance for Sara for PT3, I'd like my achievement*?
*yes I know that's not yet available to all, hope that works out...Probably Suvi. Or, alternatively, I guess you could try out a super flirty, desperate Sara who flirts and gets with as many as possible. I know you can casually hook up with Peebee and Liam. Then, I suppose there's the romance, and Keri on the side if you're into the whole mistress subplot. But that's not everyone's cup of tea, and I don't blame 'em for not being into it. I find the sort of sleazy, ladykiller type female characters interesting, like Jeri from Jessica Jones. |
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Post by MrSlothy on May 11, 2017 22:25:11 GMT
i think you two summed up the most probable outcomes. iron bull gets a line or two for acknowledgement (for inky and dorian) while dorain gets the same, more or less. i really hope he doesn't die and that they invoke some happy closure for his romance with inky. :/ I'm so done with the whole Bury Your Gays trope. Honestly, I wouldn't even care that much if we just had the option to prevent the LGBT characters from dying (like with Anders or IB and the Chargers). My issue is more if they have Dorian die no matter what or make it a situation where you have to choose between saving him or another LGBT character, which they might not do but I still worry. oh i worry too i assure you, precisely because martyrdom seems like such an OBVIOUS choice for redeeming a country. i never underestimate biowares love for a hero sacrificing herself/himself for a greater cause. i wouldn't bat an eyelash if they were so evil to give us the "save dorian OR save your new gay DA4 KISA" #remeberhawke |
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 11, 2017 22:25:47 GMT
But I digress. I think the worst case for any of us Dorian fans is them having Dorian killed off no matter what, which not only feeds into the Bury Your Gays trope but also takes away choice from the player when they could easily give us the option to save him. I can state, without a single hesitation, that I will choose Dorian over whatever the other option is. Whatever it is. I assume that the choice would be made by the DA4 PC, like the Inquisitor did for Hawke and the warden guy. Normally, I would try to err on roleplay. Not with this choice. Screw roleplay. Oh and... Fuck Bioware so much if I have to choose between my Inquisitor and Dorian, leaving either of them without each other no matter what I do. |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by MrSlothy on May 11, 2017 22:27:33 GMT
besides, do not forget how much bio loves to pull on heartstrings!
but i also hope potential dorian dying would be a player choice at least, not a fixed outcome. at least give us that if you have to do it, bioware! -.-
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Post by Cyonan on May 11, 2017 22:27:41 GMT
But I digress. I think the worst case for any of us Dorian fans is them having Dorian killed off no matter what, which not only feeds into the Bury Your Gays trope but also takes away choice from the player when they could easily give us the option to save him. I can state, without a single hesitation, that I will choose Dorian over whatever the other option is. Whatever it is. I assume that the choice would be made by the DA4 PC, like the Inquisitor did for Hawke and the warden guy. Normally, I would try to err on roleplay. Not with this choice. Screw roleplay. Oh and... Fuck Bioware so much if I have to choose between my Inquisitor and Dorian, leaving either of them without each other no matter what I do. DA4 should make you choose between the Inquisitor and whoever the Inquisitor's LI was in your playthrough, tbh. |
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Post by SofaJockey on May 11, 2017 22:27:43 GMT
I'm nearing the end of PT2 as Sara Ryder. - Romance #1 was Vetra
- Romance #2 was Peebee
Any suggestions for the next best romance for Sara for PT3, I'd like my achievement*?
*yes I know that's not yet available to all, hope that works out...Probably Suvi. Or, alternatively, I guess you could try out a super flirty, desperate Sara who flirts and gets with as many as possible. I know you can casually hook up with Peebee and Liam. Then, I suppose there's the romance, and Keri on the side if you're into the whole mistress subplot. But that's not everyone's cup of tea, and I don't blame 'em for not being into it. I find the sort of sleazy, ladykiller type female characters interesting, like Jeri from Jessica Jones. Ha, not tried the sleazy. I was a faithful Liara FemShep in the OT. (I always play female, my daughters think my RP-reasoning is 'suspect' and they despair in me) |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 11, 2017 22:28:42 GMT
I'm so done with the whole Bury Your Gays trope. Honestly, I wouldn't even care that much if we just had the option to prevent the LGBT characters from dying (like with Anders or IB and the Chargers). My issue is more if they have Dorian die no matter what or make it a situation where you have to choose between saving him or another LGBT character, which they might not do but I still worry. oh i worry too i assure you, precisely because martyrdom seems like such an OBVIOUS choice for redeeming a country. i never underestimate biowares love for a hero sacrificing herself/himself for a greater cause. i wouldn't bat an eyelash if they were so evil to give us the "save dorian OR save your new gay DA4 KISA" #remeberhawke I'd be so mad, tbh. I want to believe they're more careful than that, so I have some modicrum of hope. Maybe we'll be lucky and we'll get the choice of whether LGBT people can die or not.  DA:I had that (Celene, Iron Bull, Krem, Briala, that random female scout in the beginning who can die), so hopefully they'll keep with that way of doing it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 22:29:32 GMT
I want to know why Jaal is that way, considering just about every other Angara is capable of utilizing internal editors and proper decorum. Cole was written as admittedly being on the spectrum, and is a spirit, so he has an excuse. WTF happened with Jaal? I think it's more a case of wtf happened with everyone else because I do think they intended that to be a species-wide trait, but then kind of forgot about it writing most NPCs. If we're being generous, it might also be because we just don't know any of the other angara well enough. Jaal did need like two conversations to open up. Maybe it's also the choice of angara we see. Moshae, Evfra, the Aya governor whose name I can't spell right as well as Akksul all fall somewhere on the spectrum of politician (or cult leader, in the latter case), which means they probably have an above-average level of self-control and, as you put it, internal editing. There are a couple of good scenes which showcase how this stuff could be written. I'm quite partial to the moment when Jaal meets his brother who wants to hug him, then Jaal punches him, then the brother kind of goes in for a punch but they hug instead, and all without dialogue. It's kind of funny because you'd expect there to be some sort of conversation first with most people, or at least either a punch or a hug, but if they really are more about emotions, that rapid succession of conflicting feelings playing out in these physical actions would make sense to both of them as normal behaviour. Sadly, that was one of the few scenes in the game that demonstrated it so organically. But then again, even Ryder says on Meridian that Jaal seems more open than most other angara and he doesn't even deny it. I mean, there is the Avela romance to compare, but that is just such a bit of nothing content that very little can be read from it. She kisses Scott impulsively, I guess? Oh I missed this post! Yeah it's a species thing, but Jaal admits he's more emotional than most. That's also why Evfra told him to zip it if you try and pry him early for info on himself. He's 27, but seems to have a rather innocent mind (like when he fists pumps when Sara says she'll be with him), and he wants so badly to learn new stuff (total dork), so he asks and does so many things that he never dreamed he could. I think that scene with the galaxy he made is a good way of showing Jaal is a dreamer. Not like when Sara asks what he dreams are, just someone who dreamed of meeting a new species someday and learn all about them and travel the galaxy. I also remember Sara tried to shush him on Kadara once and he only got louder to spite her, and when asking Liam about erogenous zones, out loud said he is not ashamed of his relationship when Liam said not to talk about it publicly. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 11, 2017 22:29:52 GMT
Probably Suvi. Or, alternatively, I guess you could try out a super flirty, desperate Sara who flirts and gets with as many as possible. I know you can casually hook up with Peebee and Liam. Then, I suppose there's the romance, and Keri on the side if you're into the whole mistress subplot. But that's not everyone's cup of tea, and I don't blame 'em for not being into it. I find the sort of sleazy, ladykiller type female characters interesting, like Jeri from Jessica Jones. Ha, not tried the sleazy. I was a faithful Liara FemShep in the OT. (I always play female, my daughters think my RP-reasoning is 'suspect' and they despair in me) I think sleazy could work. It really depends on how you wanna develop that character, I suppose. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 11, 2017 22:30:14 GMT
I'm so done with the whole Bury Your Gays trope. Honestly, I wouldn't even care that much if we just had the option to prevent the LGBT characters from dying (like with Anders or IB and the Chargers). My issue is more if they have Dorian die no matter what or make it a situation where you have to choose between saving him or another LGBT character, which they might not do but I still worry. oh i worry too i assure you, precisely because martyrdom seems like such an OBVIOUS choice for redeeming a country. i never underestimate biowares love for a hero sacrificing herself/himself for a greater cause. i wouldn't bat an eyelash if they were so evil to give us the "save dorian OR save your new gay DA4 KISA" #remeberhawke I can see them doing this with one of these three characters: Calpernia, Dorian, or Maevaris. If I had to pick I would choose Calpernia as the one for a couple reasons, namely as a way to redeem her from serving Corypheus in the last game as well as avoiding the outcry they would get by killing a gay(who is also a former LI) or trans character. |
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uirebhiril
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by uirebhiril on May 11, 2017 22:30:52 GMT
DA4 should make you choose between the Inquisitor and whoever the Inquisitor's LI was in your playthrough, tbh. Good luck with that for those who romanced Solas.  |
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 11, 2017 22:31:03 GMT
I can state, without a single hesitation, that I will choose Dorian over whatever the other option is. Whatever it is. I assume that the choice would be made by the DA4 PC, like the Inquisitor did for Hawke and the warden guy. Normally, I would try to err on roleplay. Not with this choice. Screw roleplay. Oh and... Fuck Bioware so much if I have to choose between my Inquisitor and Dorian, leaving either of them without each other no matter what I do. DA4 should make you choose between the Inquisitor and whoever the Inquisitor's LI was in your playthrough, tbh. I don't see this happening because I don't see them bringing back all of those people. Besides, it will be skewed either way, as some LIs can't be present. Blackwall is dead in some scenarios, Iron Bull is dead, Cassandra can be divine, they can't use Solas (he has higher value in DA4 than other LIs) in that same way because of Big Plot Reasons, some people don't have a romance, and so on. |
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Post by MrSlothy on May 11, 2017 22:32:31 GMT
I can state, without a single hesitation, that I will choose Dorian over whatever the other option is. Whatever it is. I assume that the choice would be made by the DA4 PC, like the Inquisitor did for Hawke and the warden guy. Normally, I would try to err on roleplay. Not with this choice. Screw roleplay. Oh and... Fuck Bioware so much if I have to choose between my Inquisitor and Dorian, leaving either of them without each other no matter what I do. DA4 should make you choose between the Inquisitor and whoever the Inquisitor's LI was in your playthrough, tbh. you sir, are a monster  |
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Post by Cyonan on May 11, 2017 22:33:06 GMT
DA4 should make you choose between the Inquisitor and whoever the Inquisitor's LI was in your playthrough, tbh. I don't see this happening because I don't see them bringing back all of those people. Besides, it will be skewed either way, as some LIs can't be present. Blackwall is dead in some scenarios, Iron Bull is dead, Cassandra can be divine, they can't use Solas (he has higher value in DA4 than other LIs) in that same way because of Big Plot Reasons, some people don't have a romance, and so on. What about Inquisitor vs Warden? |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 22:33:32 GMT
I can state, without a single hesitation, that I will choose Dorian over whatever the other option is. Whatever it is. I assume that the choice would be made by the DA4 PC, like the Inquisitor did for Hawke and the warden guy. Normally, I would try to err on roleplay. Not with this choice. Screw roleplay. Oh and... Fuck Bioware so much if I have to choose between my Inquisitor and Dorian, leaving either of them without each other no matter what I do. DA4 should make you choose between the Inquisitor and whoever the Inquisitor's LI was in your playthrough, tbh. I had that exact thought when I was discussing this with some friends. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 11, 2017 22:33:32 GMT
I don't see this happening because I don't see them bringing back all of those people. Besides, it will be skewed either way, as some LIs can't be present. Blackwall is dead in some scenarios, Iron Bull is dead, Cassandra can be divine, they can't use Solas (he has higher value in DA4 than other LIs) in that same way because of Big Plot Reasons, some people don't have a romance, and so on. What about Inquisitor vs Warden? Warden can be dead. |
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Post by Ryzaki on May 11, 2017 22:33:49 GMT
DA4 should make you choose between the Inquisitor and whoever the Inquisitor's LI was in your playthrough, tbh. Good luck with that for those who romanced Solas. That choice alone would make me romance Solas just to be able to kill that egghead. |
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Post by Cyonan on May 11, 2017 22:34:48 GMT
What about Inquisitor vs Warden? Warden can be dead. Too many people can be dead. I can't make people make ridiculously hard choices. The only winning move is to apply fire to everything. |
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uirebhiril
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by uirebhiril on May 11, 2017 22:36:00 GMT
Good luck with that for those who romanced Solas. That choice alone would make me romance Solas just to be able to kill that egghead. Point being, it wouldn't work out evenly in a situation like that because Solas is kind of a whole separate thing from just being a LI. And as has been pointed out, others can also be dead or otherwise not in a position to be relevant in a choice like that. And it was a dumb thing to do in DAI anyway. I like choice/consequence, but that was just ultimately a WTF why is this even thing to me. |
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Post by Cyonan on May 11, 2017 22:36:15 GMT
DA4 should make you choose between the Inquisitor and whoever the Inquisitor's LI was in your playthrough, tbh. I had that exact thought when I was discussing this with some friends. I actually had the idea that the game try to keep track of who your two favourite squadmates(or add in non squaddie LI) are by a few different metrics. and then make you choose which one dies. |
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DA:I had that (Celene, Iron Bull, Krem, Briala, that random female scout in the beginning who can die), so hopefully they'll keep with that way of doing it. 
