The Character Romance thread (Official)

Agreed. It was shameful, and they deserve all the backlash they are getting.

That is exactly right. it's a shame that we always have the lowest amount of options, and almost always the worst quality aside from that quantity issue.

I forgot just how horribly bad that interview turned out after the real details came out.

"[Sexuality] doesn't just come out of left field"


"Andromeda does this much better than past games"


"It has to be a part of who they are"

Yeah, I seem to recall Gaider making a similar statement in reference to Cullen and Cassandra, something about them being religious? So...them being straight just made more sense? Something along those lines, although take that with a huge grain of salt; I obviously don't have any quotes and it was two and a half years ago, it's a little fuzzy. And half the time he's taking the piss, so . Honestly sometimes I'm not sure how much they actually mean it as much as they use it as a way to preemptively defend against criticism when people are disappointed by the sexuality distribution. I can't read Mac's remarks as anything but either being almost unbelievably clueless (emphasis on the unbelievably, especially given the company he works for) or trying to deflect the flood of frustration he knew was coming their way.

Thanks...

Damn, that man is delusional.

I know, right? Sometimes I just want to take him and his asari fetish and his attitude towards LGBT content and

For a few years I lived with the false info that he wouldn't be involved in ME:A. When I learned he actually was, my heart sank.

I tend to agree. Like, in a vacuum, that whole "it has to make sense for a character" thing might seem reasonable, but in practice? Sexuality doesn't care if it "makes sense," it IS. And where queer people are concerned, it usually only "makes sense" when characters have a storyline that hinges on their sexuality, and specifically how much it causes them angst. Which, while we live in a world where that does shape our experiences, makes our lives different from those of straight people, it sends a message all its own - "queerness is inherently a source of angst."

Which, by the way, is just wrong. How society treats us is the source of the angst. In a different society, these things would not be an issue - in a society that sees no difference between same and opposite sex attraction, there would be no need for a person to 'come out,' there wouldn't be people attacked for existing while queer, you wouldn't see people having nothing but a back room fling because they can't exist openly. But most of the stories we get, written by straight people, make a point of making queer characters miserable as a result of our sexuality. 

So frankly, until that changes, yeah, I will lump all the writers into having this habit, because the point is explicitly that the overwhelming majority of straight writers for queer characters seem unwilling or unable to move out of that 'comfort zone' and write a queer character where they are openly queer, and yet their problems are not stemming directly from their sexuality.

And you know, I have yet to hear "it made sense for this character to be straight." Just "it didn't make sense for this character to be gay." It's honestly used as an excuse - "I personally couldn't picture this character as not-heterosexual, and so I did not write them that way." Like... I could move into Dragon Age, but let me stick with Mass Effect. It actually DOESN'T make sense for Cora to be heterosexual. Like her "alienation" because of her biotics? That would have resonated had she been someone who our society literally delegitimizes - I see red every time she, a heterosexual, says to me, a queer man, "what if someone had told me 'that's okay'?" Her biotic alienation falls flat in a game that has us running around as a biotic god, to say nothing of the fact that in comparison to Kaidan, who killed a man when he lost control of his biotics, or Jack, who was abused and tortured as a child to build a better biotic, her being shunned because she could warp steel girders, undercuts her story for anyone who has played previous Mass Effect games. So it actually makes LESS sense for her to be straight. AND YET...

So yeah, change society, maybe this idea of "it has to make sense" could hold some water. Until the time that statement can exist in a vacuum (spoiler alert: not gonna happen), it's nothing but an excuse, one on a sliding scale of "my own biases of what gay people should be like told me that this character isn't gay" and "I put parts of myself into this character, how dare you see them, and by extension ME, as gay!"

Also... LELIANA. You know, the woman we met in a Chantry robe, who devoted her life to the Maker, who can BECOME THE FREAKING THEDAS!POPE is a bisexual woman. There's nothing about Andrastrianism that says that its believers have to be straight.

Seriously, I will fight to the death that Cassandra and Cullen should have been bisexual the whole damn time. And I guarantee you, that is a fight I will fucking WIN.

Aside from the general 'ugh' of wanting sexuality not to come out of left field (why not? it does in real life), what does that even mean for some of these characters? Half of them are friggin' space aliens who supposedly come from totally different cultures than our own. The angara society, from what little we know about their attitudes towards same-sex relationships from that tiny bulletin board message, seems to have pretty much moved past sexuality-based prejudice, if they ever even had it in the first place. Gay marriage is even considered a legitimate way to start a new bloodline (which might be important because they believe in in-family reincarnation). So... how would it have so greatly affected Jaal his character needs to be rethought? Probably wouldn't have caused a great internal struggle if being bisexual is considered something completely normal and I'm sure his mother is fine with adopted kids as well (if she weren't, she shouldn't be baking pies for FRyder). And if it is indeed more difficult than that, well, crap, then maybe they should have actually rethought that character, or another one, instead of going "eh" and shipping it anyway. Also, considering human society in ME seems generally tolerant in that regard, too... for someone like Liam, if he were bisexual, I think he already has the kind of personality where he'd be like, okay, whatever, so that's happening, and move on. Not sure what substantial rewrites that would have needed, either.

I feel like they use this idea that they have to correct the somewhat haphazard DA2 approach (every LI is bi) as an excuse to hide behind artistic integrity when they drop the ball on the representation front.

"We do look at the balance and make sure there's good inclusivity"....uhh yes, you certainly did, Bioware.

I mean i do even like the gay fathers/family idea..
just its not gay fathers, its "Yo, cutie, my BFF JIL wants to get preggers and harasses me to do it.."
Its always about Jil and a bit about gil having to develop and become mature, and that being hamfisted as shit because 90% ist still about jill, and "well now I have to be an adult" isnt much of a character ark..

It also clashes with the "little things that matters" quest/task..

I mean. either the AI wants us all to make children or it doesn't and has stress with a certain someone because she decided to have a child on her own..
but both at the same time ..tastes a bit like shit..
having Gil tell how much his female BBF Jil wants him to jack off to use his sperm because its his job to make children because reasons?..
and then 20 minutes later having addison be pissed because someone decided to be pregnant but "we can not do it, we do not have enough resources"..

like game, please decide for one, thanks?