moderately incensed firmicute
N2
Stay strong, and queer!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 186 Likes: 435
inherit
7790
0
435
moderately incensed firmicute
Stay strong, and queer!
186
Apr 18, 2017 12:48:04 GMT
April 2017
firmicute
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by moderately incensed firmicute on May 15, 2017 10:16:33 GMT
Sadly, especially in the last five years or so, some of the louder parts of internet gaming culture have had an unfortunate overlap with anti-PC culture. Most of the main gaming reddits are a good example of this (with exceptions such as r/gamingcirclejerk and r/gaymer). However, I also always notice this when I'm watching gaming analysis videos on youtube on a computer where I'm not logged in. Because I was interested in a discussion about the construction of Zelda dungeons, the youtube recommendation algorithm now also thinks I'm deeply interested in some 21 year old straight white gamer dude explaining to me how he has figured out that feminism is and always was unnecessary, that trans people don't actually exist, and that gay people just need to like, get over it, because you're not actually being treated wrong if you're not personally being stoned on a market place this very moment. Maybe Bioware got spooked. It's shit, and it shows an incredible lack of backbone, but it's possible they feared a backlash. It's profoundly useless as well because they were always going to get hate from the anti-SJW crowd, so now all they've managed to do is also anger the other side. And sure, the mythical shooter dudebro target audience (the ones that don't bother hanging around the internet much at all and just play the game) is probably not going to go on the barricades as full allies. However, I still think that the baseline there is usually apathy rather than active dislike. Looking at it from a purely business standpoint, the only sales you will realistically lose by including a gay male squadmate are the sales you already lost by including a gay male crewmate. I don't get why they would throw all their lgbt support that they courted over several years down the drain though. It's just really illogical to me. The sales for this game are lower then DAI correct? (asking because from what I remember they said DA:I was the best launch ever for BioWare). Inquisition was marketed specifically to LGBT people quite strongly, and had 3 lgbt squadmates. So I don't get why they thought changing gears completely would be a good idea. The anoying thing is.. like it goes against that what David Gaider told another entitled str8-cisspissbaby who whined that he as the majority deserves more.... David told him basically to build a bridge and to get the fuck over it because just because that str8hetcispissbaby thinks hes the majority and extrapolates from that that hes entitled to have more.. that isnt the case.. It seems this BW studio went back on that position.. Maybe only the DA-Bioware people are of that opinion because they had a gay writer on the forefront for long.. Idk whether weekes is Bi/Pan or his wife, I read something.. but even if they arent, they are trying and, in case of Krem they've shown they ask when they feel they don't know enough.. I mean.. those were in a way two different studios with different culture, so I could understand why they feel pressure to appear progressive but then because of their bro-gamer culture and a ton of subconscious biases (reyes was written by Austin afaik?) that went on unexamined then this wreck could happen.. I read on the studio culture.. like bro culture means also being incapable of saying "I don't know, please help me" or "I feel insecure with that" so that could've lead to thos whole shitshow.. Then they have a lack of trust in their audience and the urge to court a certain audience that was told off by Gaider.. so they show total inconsistency.. One writer tells them to get over it because they cant get everything and just because they think they are the majority doesn't mean thy are owed anything.. But here the studio clearly signals those that they are the cherished audience by hiding the gay, making them talk about straight sex all the time, queerbaiting and now dolling up sara and forcing that dolled up version on people.. because now those assholes and their fragile toxic homophobic idea of masculinity and fuckability ad identity suddenly matters more than the rest of their fans? I really feel those are two studios..One has learned-by having queer people on them- that we are humans and we are fans and that we are ignored so often for such assholes who shit out death and rapethreats en masse and justify it with the heinous crime of: daring to not religiously favor gameplay 1, including of queer people, PoC, trans-people or in general people who arent "the assumed default" in their work in essential and nonessential roles even if there is "no reason" (because we are..for no reason. We just are, ffs) or if someone dares to want to have female characters in reasonable and situational adequate clothing and who look like human beings with little imperfections and less like sexy dolls, with photoshopped faces, submissive waifus in underwear or genetically modified supermodels with impeccable makeup with body clinging boobsocks, camel toes and a male gazy camera thats stuck to T'n A only.. the other studio decided that exactly that group is the one that needs placating and so they now pretty sara up without a chance of choosing not to, give us a weird sexist outfit that clearly shows off sara more because male gaze trumps all..and well the whole shit with cheryl... they decoded to placate a group that hates them already for not giving them enough wish fulfillment, male gaze and edgy sexualized violence and grittiness so they can feel so adult and objective and mature I'm a bit sad because it seem Karin Weekes did a lot of work for it so I ask myself why the fuck didn't she speak up, supported cheryl more.. did just anything?? I mean they are silent, were it all the time (except about scott because, well praise the cis-str8-het-dudes as customer over all else.) maybe she did but it wasn't enough?? I don't know.. It feels shitty somehow to accuse them as a whole because I feel at least for some its very much their baby and its a first and its easy to forget humans behind it if one is hurt.. how could they as a studio who got it so right in previous games (not perfect, but who is? They shown they were trying) get it s terribly wrong now, where hey showed they didn't cared so much that they have driven off great talent in their scrambling run to throw themselves at the feet of people who hate them for acknowledging us who they perceive as outsiders, intruders and whatever.. but i still cant stop feeling hurt even tho I as bi-person got at least more than just scraps.. I got stereotyped shit and copy pasted shit but thats still better than nothing and at least jaal is nice.. (But jaa is also a bit stereotypical, the sappy lover, opening his heart, communicating. He would've been better as Bi, breaking a bit this cliche-mould of "this is how women want to be treated"- well some, yes, others not..) (damn, Montreal-studio, you wrote the angara.. and those show you how its done, talking about emotions, being open with them, being supportive in a group, getting help.. How could you get it so much and not get it at all?? )
(1) like when "gamers" sent death threats to Jennifer Hepler because she said that as a mother who has to care for her family and therefore has less time now she is an adult with obligations she would like the option to skip combat because she wants to experience the story and prefers it over gameplay. (that part with "i'm a mom and have duties and obligations now and therefore less time to sit and force myself through a combat section again and again until mastered" was the part those wankers cut out to make her statement seem more heinous (because she's a woman, woman don't game and now she has opinions? Burn her!) and use it to justify calling her cancer and sending threats and shit-because someone disliking something they like and addings hit they either don't care for or even feel threatened by is now a big conspiracy requiring them to threaten people with violence and rape.
I hope that post wasn't too rambly.. It is.. its always when I make the mistake of looking up what the fuck they were thinking and then the salt is flowing again..
|
|
The Doctor
N3
Boop.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 358 Likes: 1,392
inherit
4235
0
Jul 11, 2017 10:28:58 GMT
1,392
The Doctor
Boop.
358
March 2017
thedoctor
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by The Doctor on May 15, 2017 11:25:18 GMT
remember when people got offended that we DARE to assume that crew romances would be subpar compared to squad romances and that it wouldn't be like DAI's advisors? )))
|
|
inherit
1587
0
Member is Online
Nov 24, 2024 14:59:20 GMT
1,772
Walter Black
1,290
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
|
Post by Walter Black on May 15, 2017 13:46:25 GMT
Just out of curiosity, is the main issue here specifically the LGBTQ romances in comparison to the straight ones, or representation in general? How would this correlate to other western RPGs like Obsidian's, who have had fully fleshed out LGBTQ characters, but were notoriously anti-romance for all orientations?
I will never understand this; in my experience Cullen and Josephine's Romance Quests had just as much content as the Companion ones. More, considering Solas. Given all the plot relevant moments each of them got, the only thing the Advisors lacked in comparison to the Companions was party banter. Even then, you still got plenty of nuggets revealing personality, opinions and histories in the War Table Missions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
8306
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 13:50:49 GMT
Just out of curiosity, is the main issue here specifically the LGBTQ romances in comparison to the straight ones, or representation in general? How would this correlate to other western RPGs like Obsidian's, who have had fully fleshed out LGBTQ characters, but were notoriously anti-romance for all orientations? I will never understand this; in my experience Cullen and Josephine's Romance Quests had just as much content as the Companion ones. More, considering Solas. Given all the plot relevant moments each of them got, the only thing the Advisors lacked in comparison to the Companions was party banter. Even then, you still got plenty of nuggets revealing personality, opinions and histories in the War Table Missions. Cullen also joins you on one quest too.
|
|
inherit
Professional Cat
3064
0
6,373
ash
meow
1,529
Jan 28, 2017 23:41:12 GMT
January 2017
ashesborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by ash on May 15, 2017 14:12:02 GMT
Oooh, so they "fixed" Sara with a new make up, right? Too bad sinclairs apparently had no idea who uses Sara's face texture too...
|
|
inherit
1439
0
Nov 24, 2024 14:17:04 GMT
13,448
witchcocktor
4,283
Sept 6, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
September 2016
witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by witchcocktor on May 15, 2017 14:19:22 GMT
Oooh, so they "fixed" Sara with a new make up, right? Too bad sinclairs apparently had no idea who uses Sara's face texture too... He almost looks like Cassandra.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
8306
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 14:20:35 GMT
The doctor in Hydroponics is a blonde now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
4408
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 14:29:30 GMT
Oooh, so they "fixed" Sara with a new make up, right? Too bad sinclairs apparently had no idea who uses Sara's face texture too... He almost looks like Cassandra.
|
|
inherit
3555
0
Apr 14, 2022 23:07:25 GMT
11,193
gaycaravaggio
Oy Gay
2,940
February 2017
gaycaravaggio
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by gaycaravaggio on May 15, 2017 16:58:44 GMT
Just out of curiosity, is the main issue here specifically the LGBTQ romances in comparison to the straight ones, or representation in general? How would this correlate to other western RPGs like Obsidian's, who have had fully fleshed out LGBTQ characters, but were notoriously anti-romance for all orientations? I will never understand this; in my experience Cullen and Josephine's Romance Quests had just as much content as the Companion ones. More, considering Solas. Given all the plot relevant moments each of them got, the only thing the Advisors lacked in comparison to the Companions was party banter. Even then, you still got plenty of nuggets revealing personality, opinions and histories in the War Table Missions. I think in terms of representation, when you have a game mechanic (in this case, the romance system) that prioritizes hetero relationships over gay relationships, then it's not great representation even in comparison to games that don't have that specific game mechanic at all. So if a game had LGBT characters that were all really important and had content without hiding away the fact they're LGBT, even though there's no romance mechanic, we're gonna think of it better than ME:A. As for what you quoted, Josephine had less interaction with the main plot than Cullen (besides having no banter about the romance among the main characters), so even among advisors the content wasn't equal IMO. And the War Table was a mistake. That shit should have been actual quests.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
7856
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 17:34:28 GMT
Can I just say that while I like Liam his character probably rubs people the wrong because he acts differently one scene to another. From threatening to kill Peebee for running into Ryder to making a compassionate speech about bringing the Exiles back into the fold, the guy is all over the place. The fact he's also pretty much the embodiment of MEA's "younger and less inexperienced" tone is also going to piss people off because Liam making childish jokes and emotional flipping out constantly makes players think he's more of a liability that doesn't deserve to be part of the Pathfinder crew. And worse about Liam is unlike other Lukas Kristjanson characters like Carver and Sera there really isn't a good explanation why he acts the way he does. Carver was a farmboy that spent his entire in Hawke's shadow and Sera is an elf in Thedas whose biggest role models were vengeful peasants that killed nobles that abused them, so both of them being really emotional fucked up makes a lot of sense, while Liam the ex-cop and crisis specialist with no family issues does not. The fact that he makes the almost exact same "peace, exploration, discovery and finding my place" speeches that Cora, Vetra, Jaal and Peebee do doesn't help make him distinct from all the other squadmates either. I think Liam might also be at a further disadvantage with the overall writing. Like you said, he pulled a gun on Peebee, but if he's not in that scene, it's Cora that pulls the gun. Someone is going to pull the gun there and because Liam has the higher priority over Cora in that scene, it usually falls to him. I ran Liam through the salarian mission with all the companions and I noticed that based on how the game prioritizes them, one person will do the "complaining" while the other does the "reacting." For some reason, Liam has higher priority than everyone except Cora in the "complaining." If Cora is in the group with him, she is the complainer, saying the exact same things he says. Liam was very consistent on my first game because I only brought him out on missions. I didn't drive around in the Nomad with him and didn't understand the complaints about his banter until my second game. There's a big disconnect between Tempest Liam and Nomad Liam. I have no idea what happened there. That sounds like the ME1 use of squad input. Didn't that always have the accompanying companions state different sides of the argument for the big decisions? So Kaidan would be coded to default to paragon and Ash to renegade, but if Ash and Wrex were both in the party one of them would have to say the paragon side of things for balance. I guess to provide different perspectives on the issue, but it seems like if we know our squad well enough, we consciously choose them knowing how they would react to a situation in character and not as a sounding board for the two options. Hey, let's turn this thread from forum related drama to Bioware related drama, like so: Was Anders right? Go on. Be as passionate as you please. Oh, Maker... calling Rouccoco . I will say one thing though. I played DA2 completely blind, so that scene of the chantry exploding remains one of the most literal jaw-dropping scenes I've ever seen in a game. I was so shocked that it happened*. * Cue people saying, "Oh, I knew that from the ingredients." I really like how subsequent playthroughs show the hints for his plan early on. And there is an option to help gather ingredients but when he asks to distract Elthina Hawke can realize there's more going on and refuse. That was a nice sliver of roleplaying there, not having to complete a quest objective if the PC didn't feel right about it. There were quite a few people who posted so on the forums. There were also DAO players who just skipped DAA entirely, some with dead Wardens that didn't see the point (not all US players were willing to be cheaty with that), or who liked the RP ending DAO gave them, or any other reason. You can say the same of DAI and picking that up after the reception DA2 got, yet there are also DAI players who have that as their first DA game, as well as those who skipped over DA2 completely. Actually, I was someone who started the series with DA2. I had tried DA:O, but, and I know this is a heretic's opinion, I think it has the worst combat out of the whole series. I can play the game just fine now, but eight years ago, having never played a traditional fantasy RPG before, the gameplay had me lost and I stopped like 5 hours in. In my opinion, Anders was a good character from the perspective of someone who'd never seen him before. I didn't really like him, but I understood him and I thought his downwards spiral was quite interesting to behold (especially in the differences in small things like the banter between the acts, where he grows less jokey and more gloomy with each passing time jump forward). A lot of Anders' changes between games can be handwaved with him having taken in Justice and the two of them accidentally tainting and twisting each other's personalities, but how satisfying one finds that explanation may vary. Having gone back, I'm actually maybe the only person who is more upset about the changes they made to Justice. I like Cole, but Awakening's Justice is still my favourite Fade spirit, and that makes it a bit sad to me many now just consider him the bad ghost that ruined the Anders character. I don't think it's bad if you didn't like DAO's combat. It is clunky and slower. I enjoy the game and see it as a solid classic Bioware game: the main plot is formulaic and nothing super innovative but still enjoyable. It's the characters and setting which are the really good parts to it. x 69 I'm pro mage freedom for life!!!
So which do you choose? Vivienne, Cassandra, or Leliana for Divine? I'm shamelessly copying this from another thread but I already reasoned it out so... While in real life I would want sunshine Leliana as Divine, I think that narratively Divine Vivienne works best. I do think all Victoria's will result in a similar world state for simplicity's sake, so on a meta level there won't actually be much difference. Especially if we move north and no longer have direct access to the Southern Chantry. But I like the idea of Vivienne being such a master of The Game that she works her way onto the sunburst throne. It's a bit more GoT than paragon Bioware. Vivienne is the most politically connected and adept, although Leliana is no slouch, either. But I think Leliana spent too much of DAI mourning Justinia to really make any effort in forming alliances in the Chantry. And Cassandra, although I love her, is as politically savvy as a footstool. So while standard Bioware party line is that good deeds will be rewarded, realistically it should be the candidate who is able to manipulate the vote who wins. Also: Divine Leliana's reforms are completely unrealistic and another example of paragon Bioware being divorced from how things actually work in The Real World. While I admire her policies and push for reform, she accomplishes way too much too quickly for any lasting social change. I know there's resistance to her edicts but the epilogue still makes it sound like she is able to murderknife her way into victory. A "magister" Divine? With mage-templar army? What a great idea! Every pious Andrastian biggest nightmare... Well yeah, that's why it is rather progressive as far as how well mages will do. Vivienne is great at the Game (as is Leliana, which is why I think they both make good Divines in different ways) and can handle the public perception of herself. She portrays herself as conservative to placate people, and thus they don't fear her as they would a mage who advocates otherwise and you hear it in the dialogue of the rando NPCs everywhere. She keeps things as they are- there is a circle, and templars- but runs them differently behind the scenes, which is safer than a sudden public shift. Agreed! Vivienne's "power hunger" comes from being otherwise powerless as a class- I do not truly believe she wants power for the sake of power as she shows great remorse and anxiety over the most vulnerable people- the idea is that she doesn't trust anyone else to protect them. She has dedicated followers (moreso than Leliana) that would argue for and with her in the case of her no longer being Divine. And Cassandra keeps everything the same, which is hardly idealistic or stable even since the pandoras box that is the college of enchanters is opened regardless. I dunno. The fact she was willing to crush or directly compete with the College of Enchanter, even though they haven't actually done anything yet, makes me believe that either she is power hungry and can't stand the idea of another magical institution being around or that she's so arrogant and controlling that she believes nobody else but her could possibly run things. It can also be interpreted that she doesn't mind the College but in an effort not to look weak or compromising, she claims that she's leaving them alone as a favor to the Inquisitor. Not necessarily the case, but it's one way to look at it.
|
|
inherit
A Knight in Fluffy Armor
3131
0
Nov 24, 2024 12:36:31 GMT
8,497
Dirk
Quite oneirophobic
1,903
January 2017
dirkjake
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by Dirk on May 15, 2017 17:45:29 GMT
Maybe some m/m romance patch is already here. :sure:
|
|
inherit
3532
0
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by ComedicSociopathy on May 15, 2017 19:19:15 GMT
So speaking of LGBT content and gayaliens does anyone else think that the Anagarians were a wasted opportunity?
I'm not talking about Jaal being bi, I'm taking about how their reincarnation gimmick (and it is pretty much just a colorful gimmick in MEA) could have actually made them distinct and interesting. The Mass Effect series has always had a problem of the main alien races essentially being humans with a mildly different humanoid appearance and some weird gimmick. The Asari are all women and have a nonsensical reproductive systems. The turians are bird people that are very militaristic. The salarians live a short time and are smart and sneaky. Even the krogan are just an over exaggeration of ancient tribal warrior cultures. Imagine a race of beings who never truly die and just reincarnate back to live with all their past memories and experiences intact. How does one navigate sexuality, gender and identity when they've literally been several different people? It could have been great but instead we just get noble savages that we must save from the Space-Nazis/British Empire. Honestly, now that I think about it the Anagarians are pretty much the Protheans when they were still around fighting the Reapers.
Ugh. Missed opportunity, Bioware.
|
|
inherit
6799
0
Jul 11, 2017 11:39:13 GMT
948
toomanyclouds
249
April 2017
toomanyclouds
|
Post by toomanyclouds on May 15, 2017 19:39:52 GMT
So speaking of LGBT content and gayaliens does anyone else think that the Anagarians were a wasted opportunity? I'm not talking about Jaal being bi, I'm taking about how their reincarnation gimmick (and it is pretty much just a colorful gimmick in MEA) could have actually made them distinct and interesting. The Mass Effect series has always had a problem of the main alien races essentially being humans with a mildly different humanoid appearance and some weird gimmick. The Asari are all women and have a nonsensical reproductive systems. The turians are bird people that are very militaristic. The salarians live a short time and are smart and sneaky. Even the krogan are just an over exaggeration of ancient tribal warrior cultures. Imagine a race of beings who never truly die and just reincarnate back to live with all their past memories and experiences intact. How does one navigate sexuality, gender and identity when they've literally been several different people? It could have been great but instead we just get noble savages that we must save from the Space-Nazis/British Empire. Honestly, now that I think about it the Anagarians are pretty much the Prometheans when they were still around fighting the Reapers. Ugh. Missed opportunity, Bioware. I have to admit I'm still not sure if the game claimed there is some actual reincarnation magic going on, but I doubt it, since you usually get pseudo-science in ME. Is this some thing where the Jardaan gave them highly advanced technology that reacts to specific genetic sequences and thus can only be used by people in specific families? And then something similar to Prothean touch-memory happens? Did anyone pay more attention than me during that quest on Havarl? Anyway, finding a space-biology reason for them to be reincarnated (or at least having a culture where they believe they carry a multi-life soul in them and it actually impacted their behaviour in any way) would have been interesting. At least I wish they had given the angara something, even if it was just a consistent gimmick like the other races have. They can't really come across as more emotional to us if two of the three angara we interact with more regularly (Evfra, Moshae) don't seem any less guarded than their human counterparts might be. As has been said in this thread before, it just kind of makes Jaal look like a weirdo even among his own people.
|
|
caterpillar
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: yangthecat
Posts: 91 Likes: 238
inherit
8031
0
Sept 21, 2017 23:27:23 GMT
238
caterpillar
91
Apr 26, 2017 18:01:56 GMT
April 2017
caterpillar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
yangthecat
|
Post by caterpillar on May 15, 2017 19:50:25 GMT
So speaking of LGBT content and gayaliens does anyone else think that the Anagarians were a wasted opportunity? I'm not talking about Jaal being bi, I'm taking about how their reincarnation gimmick (and it is pretty much just a colorful gimmick in MEA) could have actually made them distinct and interesting. The Mass Effect series has always had a problem of the main alien races essentially being humans with a mildly different humanoid appearance and some weird gimmick. The Asari are all women and have a nonsensical reproductive systems. The turians are bird people that are very militaristic. The salarians live a short time and are smart and sneaky. Even the krogan are just an over exaggeration of ancient tribal warrior cultures. Imagine a race of beings who never truly die and just reincarnate back to live with all their past memories and experiences intact. How does one navigate sexuality, gender and identity when they've literally been several different people? It could have been great but instead we just get noble savages that we must save from the Space-Nazis/British Empire. Honestly, now that I think about it the Anagarians are pretty much the Prometheans when they were still around fighting the Reapers. Ugh. Missed opportunity, Bioware. In the final mission, if you have Jaal with you he'll mention something about the place feeling 'familiar'. I kind of wonder if maybe the Jaardan designed the angara as organic host bodies for some kind of AI, and that maybe some of these AI can transfer with their past memories still available to the new host. It would be great for them to explore something like that in the future, assuming there will be a future.
|
|
inherit
57
0
1
Nov 24, 2024 14:03:02 GMT
35,516
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,923
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on May 15, 2017 19:55:03 GMT
How was Inquisition marketed specifically to LGBT? Over all they marketed to everyone obviously. But they had a huge presence at a gaymers convention and did interviews about Dorian being their first gay male companion. They didn't hide the gay away like the Mass Effect team did. They made sure everyone knew there was options for them-by actually telling not just vauge pr talk. It was over all just a better experience pre-launch. There are many misconceptions. That Dorian was gay was buried in a list of facts about Dorian. DAI was hardly marketed to LGBT folk, what was different it that 'LGBT interests' were included in what was marketed. For people who haven't seen the GaymerX panel, it's quite fascinating...
|
|
inherit
3532
0
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by ComedicSociopathy on May 15, 2017 20:11:47 GMT
So speaking of LGBT content and gayaliens does anyone else think that the Anagarians were a wasted opportunity? I'm not talking about Jaal being bi, I'm taking about how their reincarnation gimmick (and it is pretty much just a colorful gimmick in MEA) could have actually made them distinct and interesting. The Mass Effect series has always had a problem of the main alien races essentially being humans with a mildly different humanoid appearance and some weird gimmick. The Asari are all women and have a nonsensical reproductive systems. The turians are bird people that are very militaristic. The salarians live a short time and are smart and sneaky. Even the krogan are just an over exaggeration of ancient tribal warrior cultures. Imagine a race of beings who never truly die and just reincarnate back to live with all their past memories and experiences intact. How does one navigate sexuality, gender and identity when they've literally been several different people? It could have been great but instead we just get noble savages that we must save from the Space-Nazis/British Empire. Honestly, now that I think about it the Anagarians are pretty much the Prometheans when they were still around fighting the Reapers. Ugh. Missed opportunity, Bioware. I have to admit I'm still not sure if the game claimed there is some actual reincarnation magic going on, but I doubt it, since you usually get pseudo-science in ME. Is this some thing where the Jardaan gave them highly advanced technology that reacts to specific genetic sequences and thus can only be used by people in specific families? And then something similar to Prothean touch-memory happens? Did anyone pay more attention than me during that quest on Havarl? Anyway, finding a space-biology reason for them to be reincarnated (or at least having a culture where they believe they carry a multi-life soul in them and it actually impacted their behaviour in any way) would have been interesting. At least I wish they had given the angara something, even if it was just a consistent gimmick like the other races have. They can't really come across as more emotional to us if two of the three angara we interact with more regularly (Evfra, Moshae) don't seem any less guarded than their human counterparts might be. As has been said in this thread before, it just kind of makes Jaal look like a weirdo even among his own people. True, Bioware is probably going to explain the reincarnation thing with some kind of technobabble but I still wish they focused more on that element and made it a key part of the angarans. The same goes for the whole being more open with their emotions thing. If your going to give your aliens a gimmick you'd better use for all its worth instead of waiting to expand upon it a squeal.
|
|
Sable Rhapsody
N4
Witcher-ing
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: SableRhapsody
Posts: 1,445 Likes: 4,789
inherit
3869
0
Jun 27, 2017 20:54:48 GMT
4,789
Sable Rhapsody
Witcher-ing
1,445
February 2017
sablerhapsody
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
SableRhapsody
|
Post by Sable Rhapsody on May 15, 2017 20:26:26 GMT
True, Bioware is probably going to explain the reincarnation thing with some kind of technobabble but I still wish they focused more on that element and made it a key part of the angarans. The same goes for the whole being more open with their emotions thing. If your going to give your aliens a gimmick you'd better use for all its worth instead of waiting to expand upon it a squeal. They certainly had no trouble using the asari's gimmick for all it's worth Anybody else miss the Protoss? That was a cool take on first contact, though it might just be my nostalgia for Tassadar talking
|
|
inherit
3532
0
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by ComedicSociopathy on May 15, 2017 20:35:43 GMT
I miss the Rachni and the Geth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
7856
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 21:00:02 GMT
Yeah that's a lie, in terms of quantity AND quality. But I guess they thought '' well most people got a lot of good content, lesbians actually have plenty this time around (and I'm sure all of LGBT community will be overjoyed and impressed by this), straight women got a very plot relevant squadmate and I think we did good with the content for gay men, I mean we gave them a gay fathers storyline (progressive!!!) with a character whose voice actor is famous, AND there's another m/m character with a BW alumni voice actor that a lot of people liked, well done us! '' Didn't one of the devs say Reyes was his favorite romance? I don't know if that was damage control to be like "hey guys, you don't have to be a squadmate to have a good romance! look at Nick Boulton!" or if they legitimately enjoyed the romance and thought that would be enough for gay dudes. I think it's an example of devs being out of touch with their fans. BioWare failed the LGBT community big time with this game. I don't understand why they did this at all. It hurts on so many different levels. Sadly, especially in the last five years or so, some of the louder parts of internet gaming culture have had an unfortunate overlap with anti-PC culture. Most of the main gaming reddits are a good example of this (with exceptions such as r/gamingcirclejerk and r/gaymer). However, I also always notice this when I'm watching gaming analysis videos on youtube on a computer where I'm not logged in. Because I watched a discussion about the construction of Zelda dungeons, the youtube recommendation algorithm now also thinks I'm deeply interested in some 21 year old straight white gamer dude explaining to me how he has figured out that feminism is and always was unnecessary, that trans people don't actually exist, and that gay people just need to like, get over it, because you're not actually being treated wrong if you're not personally being stoned on a market place this very moment. Maybe Bioware got spooked. It's shit, and it shows an incredible lack of backbone, but it's possible they feared a backlash. It's profoundly useless as well because they were always going to get hate from the anti-SJW crowd, so now all they've managed to do is also anger the other side. And sure, the mythical shooter dudebro target audience (the ones that don't bother hanging around the internet much at all and just play the game) is probably not going to go on the barricades as full allies. However, I still think that the baseline there is usually apathy rather than active dislike. Looking at it from a purely business standpoint, the only sales you will realistically lose by including a gay male squadmate are the sales you already lost by including a gay male crewmate. Yeah my assumption is that the mythical easily offended gamerbro focuses mostly on combat and doesn't explore every dialogue tree or speak to every character. Given the statistics of how many players actually finish the game or reach halfway through, it doesn't look like a majority of people even explore a large portion of the game content. So I find it very unlikely that the majority of straight male games are even going to know that they can have a baby with Gil. If they even speak to him at all, they won't choose the heart option when speaking to him, and that's it. The only people who are going to care are the ones who are going to find any way of raising a shit storm regardless and they're not worth catering to. I don't get why they would throw all their lgbt support that they courted over several years down the drain though. It's just really illogical to me. The sales for this game are lower then DAI correct? (asking because from what I remember they said DA:I was the best launch ever for BioWare). Inquisition was marketed specifically to LGBT people quite strongly, and had 3 lgbt squadmates. So I don't get why they thought changing gears completely would be a good idea. I think y'all are giving the writing staff too much credit. BioWare's a big company, and not everyone who works for them is going to have the same opinion on LGBT issues. To me this just looks like a group of writers who didn't really want to spend time on gay characters, but wanted to keep the shiny Ally pin for their company and thought they could get full credit for the absolute bare minimum amount of work. You're not gonna see much in the way of logic there, unless you count post hoc rationalizations so they could feel like they were being smarter than they actually were. But Bioware writers have historically had a close relationship to their dedicated fans (i.e. forumites). Historically rather than currently, but still. They should have known that they have a large LGBT following and that reducing LGBT representation in their latest game and moving backward in terms of m/m romance would not have been favorably received. I think it's a management decision rather than the entire company, but I would think that most people applying to work at Bioware would be aware of its image as a liberal company that has been one of the only gay-friendly developers in the industry. If an employee is indifferent to LGBT issues it's not like they're going to suddenly change their attitude once they join Bioware, but I would still think that most people who would be against LGBT inclusion wouldn't choose Bioware as their first option in a job. Granted, a job is a job and bills have to be paid.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 15, 2017 21:30:37 GMT
I miss the Rachni and the Geth. I do too. I'm really hoping they come to Andromeda in one of the DLCs and/or sequels. The Rachni would be great too, but they are unlikely.
|
|
Joey
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
Prime Posts: 1
Prime Likes: 2137
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,483
inherit
1486
0
1,483
Joey
351
September 2016
hassler
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
1
2137
|
Post by Joey on May 15, 2017 21:35:43 GMT
|
|
inherit
3426
0
2,621
Ryzaki
1,184
February 2017
ryzaki009
|
Post by Ryzaki on May 15, 2017 21:56:12 GMT
I miss the Rachni and the Geth. I miss how the geth weren't just humans in different customs like every other race (until ME3 *sigh*) they actually were alien. Rip geth bros.
|
|
inherit
Psi-Cop
38
0
Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
10,231
CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by CrutchCricket on May 15, 2017 22:08:40 GMT
Also the thorian. A sentient giant plant thing is about as alien as it gets.
Also thorian > Leviathans and should've factored into the Reaper backstory somehow.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5089
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 24, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 22:18:05 GMT
Oh man, the thorian. The rachni. The hanar! The way they all communicate, how truly truly alien they seemed. So disappointing that we get to an entirely new galaxy and it's just "okay, this new species, hmm...let's make 'em hug a lot and have, like, ten knees!"
|
|
inherit
4557
0
216
zanephiri
62
Mar 15, 2017 14:29:37 GMT
March 2017
zanephiri
|
Post by zanephiri on May 15, 2017 22:41:31 GMT
Yeah it seems weird how they cut the most alien aliens from the original trilogy. Besides the ones already mentioned, I would have loved to have seen the Elcor in Andromeda. I imagine they could have made them much bigger than in the OT. Right now everyone looks so human. I'm also confused why they cut so many species, but then didn't bother diversifying the models for the species they did include. (Though obviously I don't know if that's because something went wrong or they just didn't have the resources.) Actually I also wonder whether they didn't exclude the more alien looking species because that would have meant designing different arcs (as I can't imagine an Elcor fitting into a human sized pod)? But then that wouldn't have stopped them from creating a very alien species on one of the planets. Maybe something like the aliens from Arrival.
|
|