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Post by Dirk on May 20, 2017 10:21:57 GMT
I don't think anyone should be trying to play victim now, especially after you cyberbully someone. Some people may not agree about making Jaal bi, but they never attacked you as a person. It's fine to disagree with a person who wants Jaal to stay straight, but leave the real people out of it. You have clearly never been bullied or been the victim of any kind of prejudice. If you dont know the difference between parodying someone's bigotry and harrassment.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 10:23:20 GMT
You have clearly never been bullied or been the victim of any kind of prejudice. If you dont know the difference between parodying someone's bigotry and harrassment. Yall were clearly making fun of her. Even made fake accounts with her username. Mocking her and all of that. Oh and didn't everyone apologize to each other? Is it not better for us to joke about what was said than to be bitter about it? No one was being mocked. The posts were being mocked but no personal attacks were made. You'd understand how moving on from bigotry is not an immediate process if you actually understood what it was to be a victim of it. And that's symptomatic of the whole problem here: you don't know, the people parodied do not know, he mods do not know. Being so out of touch results in people making uninformed decisions.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 20, 2017 10:29:26 GMT
Thanks for that tag, I live in the UK and I've just got up... I'll take a look. Can you read through some of the posts on the last few pages of this thread to see how the people here are responding to some of this? It's really not a good sign when numerous people of a particular group think that the mods as a whole just don't give a shit about them, or care about making an effort toward equitable moderation practices. They don't feel safe. They don't feel welcome. That needs to be acknowledged, and the reasons for it need to be understood. I can understand that perspective. And I'm not going to get into the details of moderation here (might say a couple of things below), but absolutely a shit is given. It's a matter I've been discussing by PM with several folks in this community. Let's be direct about it, about a day ago there was a pretty unpleasant run of posts which many people joined in on mocking one of our forum members. Now what individual posters say is fair game for either critcism or moderation action and removal (depending on what it is). But we know how nasty the internet can get when memes are made to mock people, and that goes on for page after page - it's bullying mob behavior and it's not consistent with the high standards that I would expect from this group. Limited moderation action has been taken overnight, which I support, I've seen the posts. I reinstated several posts yesterday back into the thread which had been caught in the batch that was removed, those posts not put back were pretty mean and limited moderation action (even for a first offence) was appropriate in my view. Moderators discuss such things at length and for that reason, it takes a few hours for action to be taken after a significant event. It's no secret that there's a small blind-spot between when the American mods go to bed and the European mods wake up that other nasty posts can pop up. Members of this community have reported such posts overnight and they are being dealt with in an equal & fair way, with posts removed/redacted and temporary bans implemented in some cases. I'd prefer to continue this discussion by PM so as not to derail the thread more than it is already derailed. But so there is no misunderstanding of intent, I absolutely give a shit about seeing equitable moderation applied. And if you want to talk about it, my PM box awaits...
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Post by caladrius on May 20, 2017 10:31:01 GMT
You have clearly never been bullied or been the victim of any kind of prejudice. If you dont know the difference between parodying someone's bigotry and harrassment. Yall were clearly making fun of her. Even made fake accounts with her username. Mocking her and all of that. Oh and didn't everyone apologize to each other? She already said she hated us since then and she deleted her last account to prove some mystery point to us while she secretly hid on another, so it's pretty moot. Not that this is really helpful. We should just try to move on. What's done is done. It seems like you're looking for a fight about it.
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cespar
N3
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MysteryCespar
Posts: 555 Likes: 1,517
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Post by cespar on May 20, 2017 10:36:00 GMT
Yall were clearly making fun of her. Even made fake accounts with her username. Mocking her and all of that. Oh and didn't everyone apologize to each other? Is it not better for us to joke about what was said than to be bitter about it? No one was being mocked. The posts were being mocked but no personal attacks were made. You'd understand how moving on from bigotry is not an immediate process if you actually understood what it was to be a victim of it. And that's symptomatic of the whole problem here: you don't know, the people parodied do not know, he mods do not know. Being so out of touch results in people making uninformed decisions. Oh wow. You guys were joking right after the apology. At least give it some time. And oh wow. Everyone has been through something. People claim Cora and Cassandra looks like a man. There are real women out there with features like that. Or people complaining about someone being too skinny or too big. Or hear people talk bad about dark skin people looking bad compare to lighter skin people. We all have our problems, but some LGBT people in here feel like it's ok to take their anger out on a certain user by "joking" about her. I mean you don't have to be friends with the user, but you should have at least stated you didn't want to accept her apology.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
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Post by Joey on May 20, 2017 10:36:03 GMT
You have clearly never been bullied or been the victim of any kind of prejudice. If you dont know the difference between parodying someone's bigotry and harrassment. Yall were clearly making fun of her. Even made fake accounts with her username. Mocking her and all of that. Oh and didn't everyone apologize to each other?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Dirk on May 20, 2017 10:37:47 GMT
Are we going to keep doing this? My new memes are ready.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
Prime Posts: 1
Prime Likes: 2137
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,483
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Post by Joey on May 20, 2017 10:38:13 GMT
Yall were clearly making fun of her. Even made fake accounts with her username. Mocking her and all of that. Oh and didn't everyone apologize to each other? She already said she hated us since then and she deleted her last account to prove some mystery point to us while she secretly hid on another, so it's pretty moot. Not that this is really helpful. We should just try to move on. What's done is done. It seems like you're looking for a fight about it.
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cespar
N3
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MysteryCespar
Posts: 555 Likes: 1,517
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Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
MysteryCespar
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Post by cespar on May 20, 2017 10:41:10 GMT
Yall were clearly making fun of her. Even made fake accounts with her username. Mocking her and all of that. Oh and didn't everyone apologize to each other? She already said she hated us since then and she deleted her last account to prove some mystery point to us while she secretly hid on another, so it's pretty moot. Not that this is really helpful. We should just try to move on. What's done is done. It seems like you're looking for a fight about it. I'm not looking for a fight. I just see people in here playing the victim card after attacking a certain user. I just don't agree with attacking an actual person. Fight about bi-Jaal all day and Bioware slacking on m/m. That's the goal. I just think it has become too personal now.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 10:41:29 GMT
Is it not better for us to joke about what was said than to be bitter about it? No one was being mocked. The posts were being mocked but no personal attacks were made. You'd understand how moving on from bigotry is not an immediate process if you actually understood what it was to be a victim of it. And that's symptomatic of the whole problem here: you don't know, the people parodied do not know, he mods do not know. Being so out of touch results in people making uninformed decisions. Oh wow. You guys were joking right after the apology. At least give it some time. And oh wow. Everyone has been through something. People claim Cora and Cassandra looks like a man. There are real women out there with features like that. Or people complaining about someone being too skinny or too big. Or hear people talk bad about dark skin people looking bad compare to lighter skin people. We all have our problems, but some LGBT people in here feel like it's ok to take their anger out on a certain user by "joking" about her. I mean you don't have to be friends with the user, but you should have at least stated you didn't want to accept her apology. Again you are not the victim in any of those cases which is the point. It's not personal to you.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Dirk on May 20, 2017 10:42:01 GMT
She already said she hated us since then and she deleted her last account to prove some mystery point to us while she secretly hid on another, so it's pretty moot. Not that this is really helpful. We should just try to move on. What's done is done. It seems like you're looking for a fight about it. I'm not looking for a fight. I just see people in here playing the victim card after attacking a certain user. I just don't agree with attacking an actual person. Fight about bi-Jaal all day and Bioware slacking on m/m. That's the goal. I just think it has become too personal now. I am sorry but homophobia is always personal.
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Post by caladrius on May 20, 2017 10:47:36 GMT
She already said she hated us since then and she deleted her last account to prove some mystery point to us while she secretly hid on another, so it's pretty moot. Not that this is really helpful. We should just try to move on. What's done is done. It seems like you're looking for a fight about it. I'm not looking for a fight. I just see people in here playing the victim card after attacking a certain user. I just don't agree with attacking an actual person. Fight about bi-Jaal all day and Bioware slacking on m/m. That's the goal. I just think it has become too personal now. I don't know if you don't understand, genuinely, or not, but the situation with posters here and with LC is more complicated that you're implying. I would rather things didn't get to the point they did the other night again, too. I hope we can all come to a better understanding with each other. But if you always come into this blaming LGBT posters, how much good will do you expect from them? You seem to show up a lot when things are tense to poke at these issues and very rarely any other time, so it often appears you're instigating. If you don't want drama or instantly negative responses, you should consider how this looks from the other side, as well.
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Joey
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
Prime Posts: 1
Prime Likes: 2137
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,483
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hassler
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
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Post by Joey on May 20, 2017 10:49:14 GMT
He's doing this on purpose Remember how SofaJockey wanted him to stop with his comments yesterday? And he didn't listen. Just ignore him o/
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lightdrago3
N3
Legion Rebuilt
An interesting update has occurred. More data must be accumulated...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 536 Likes: 1,566
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Legion Rebuilt
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lightdrago3
An interesting update has occurred. More data must be accumulated...
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November 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by lightdrago3 on May 20, 2017 10:52:19 GMT
Hm. Some stuff happened and Lee was banned? That's sad.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Dirk on May 20, 2017 10:53:42 GMT
He's doing this on purpose Remember how SofaJockey wanted him to stop with his comments yesterday? And he didn't listen. Just ignore him o/ Oh no, we must start the drama again. We have receipts ready and the homophobia balance sheet is on the menu. Or we can have peace for a while? I am ready for either.
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cespar
N3
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MysteryCespar
Posts: 555 Likes: 1,517
inherit
530
0
1,517
cespar
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
555
August 2016
cespar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
MysteryCespar
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Post by cespar on May 20, 2017 10:56:49 GMT
I'm not looking for a fight. I just see people in here playing the victim card after attacking a certain user. I just don't agree with attacking an actual person. Fight about bi-Jaal all day and Bioware slacking on m/m. That's the goal. I just think it has become too personal now. I don't know if you don't understand, genuinely, or not, but the situation with posters here and with LC is more complicated that you're implying. I would rather things didn't get to the point they did the other night again, too. I hope we can all come to a better understanding with each other. But if you always come into this blaming LGBT posters, how much good will do you expect from them? You seem to show up a lot when things are tense to poke at these issues and very rarely any other time, so it often appears you're instigating. If you don't want drama or instantly negative responses, you should consider how this looks from the other side, as well. I do look at it from the other side. I remember LC saying she hopes Bioware doesn't fix the m/m situation, but she told everyone she got wrongful information from MassBass and apologized for it. She was wrong from that. But she didn't start making fake accounts mocking and making fun of you guys. I've been a lurker since the begin and whatever, I haven't only been posting for fights and stuff in this thread. I mean you can check through my post history on my profile. I just speak my mind on stuff when I want to intervene in something. I'm not going to apologize or shy away for speaking my mind. Free to ignore me, if I am really saying something so trollish or hatefull, but I never had or will.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
Prime Posts: 1
Prime Likes: 2137
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,483
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hassler
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
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Post by Joey on May 20, 2017 11:01:09 GMT
He's doing this on purpose Remember how SofaJockey wanted him to stop with his comments yesterday? And he didn't listen. Just ignore him o/ Oh no, we must start the drama again. We have receipts ready and the homophobia balance sheet is on the menu. Or we can have peace for a while? I am ready for either. Fine by me!
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dirkjake
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Dirk on May 20, 2017 11:06:21 GMT
I don't know if you don't understand, genuinely, or not, but the situation with posters here and with LC is more complicated that you're implying. I would rather things didn't get to the point they did the other night again, too. I hope we can all come to a better understanding with each other. But if you always come into this blaming LGBT posters, how much good will do you expect from them? You seem to show up a lot when things are tense to poke at these issues and very rarely any other time, so it often appears you're instigating. If you don't want drama or instantly negative responses, you should consider how this looks from the other side, as well. I do look at it from the other side. I remember LC saying she hopes Bioware doesn't fix the m/m situation, but she told everyone she got wrongful information from MassBass and apologized for it. She was wrong from that. But she didn't start making fake accounts mocking and making fun of you guys. I've been a lurker since the begin and whatever, I haven't only been posting for fights and stuff in this thread. I mean you can check through my post history on my profile. I just speak my mind on stuff when I want to intervene in something. I'm not going to apologize or shy away for speaking my mind. Free to ignore me, if I am really saying something so trollish or hatefull, but I never had or will. The agreement was broken by her first in her farewell post in Jaal thread which then, as she revealed later, appeared to be a bait: I am sorry but her apology turned out to be insincere before the event went down
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Post by witchcocktor on May 20, 2017 11:06:27 GMT
Can't believe two months after the release, people are still dramaing it up. Shut the fuck up. You're all so... well.. you know.
*a passing prayer for bi Jaal*
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Post by Dirk on May 20, 2017 11:07:57 GMT
Oh no, we must start the drama again. We have receipts ready and the homophobia balance sheet is on the menu. Or we can have peace for a while? I am ready for either. Fine by me! The first receipt has been delivered.
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zaefkol
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
Posts: 443 Likes: 1,352
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Post by zaefkol on May 20, 2017 11:08:42 GMT
Can you read through some of the posts on the last few pages of this thread to see how the people here are responding to some of this? It's really not a good sign when numerous people of a particular group think that the mods as a whole just don't give a shit about them, or care about making an effort toward equitable moderation practices. They don't feel safe. They don't feel welcome. That needs to be acknowledged, and the reasons for it need to be understood. I can understand that perspective. And I'm not going to get into the details of moderation here (might say a couple of things below), but absolutely a shit is given. It's a matter I've been discussing by PM with several folks in this community. Let's be direct about it, about a day ago there was a pretty unpleasant run of posts which many people joined in on mocking one of our forum members. Now what individual posters say is fair game for either critcism or moderation action and removal (depending on what it is). But we know how nasty the internet can get when memes are made to mock people, and that goes on for page after page - it's bullying mob behavior and it's not consistent with the high standards that I would expect from this group. Limited moderation action has been taken overnight, which I support, I've seen the posts. I reinstated several posts yesterday back into the thread which had been caught in the batch that was removed, those posts not put back were pretty mean and limited moderation action (even for a first offence) was appropriate in my view. Moderators discuss such things at length and for that reason, it takes a few hours for action to be taken after a significant event. It's no secret that there's a small blind-spot between when the American mods go to bed and the European mods wake up that other nasty posts can pop up. Members of this community have reported such posts overnight and they are being dealt with in an equal & fair way, with posts removed/redacted and temporary bans implemented in some cases. I'd prefer to continue this discussion by PM so as not to derail the thread more than it is already derailed. But so there is no misunderstanding of intent, I absolutely give a shit about seeing equitable moderation applied. And if you want to talk about it, my PM box awaits... I understand the desire to get the thread back on track; it's something that I would like to see as well, but until this issue has been resolved, I don't know if that will be possible. Hurt feelings and old disagreements will continue to rear their heads unless this is addressed. Out of respect for your desire to move the thread back on topic, however, this will be my one and only post about the issue of moderation. There is a difference between giving a shit about seeing equitable moderation and truly understanding what constitutes equitable moderation. In order to achieve equitable moderation, both giving a shit and understanding are required. While I do believe that many of the moderators here have good intentions and care about being even handed with the actions that they take to help maintain productive discussions among argumentative outbreaks caused by people with a wide range of conflicting viewpoints, I do not believe that all of the moderators here have a full understanding of the issues that cause those outbreaks. Without that understanding, equitable moderation is a fantasy. Just as it is a fantasy to maintain that there is no problem with how moderation has been applied to these forums when an entire community is now and has been consistently telling you that such a problem exists. It's a fantasy to believe that a group made up of diverse voices, connected through a common strand of identity, is misrepresenting, exaggerating, or being overly sensitive to an issue that it, more than anyone else, has the ability to recognize. And it is a fantasy to expect that group to grin and bear it when their concerns are repeatedly ignored or brushed aside with assurances and platitudes that rarely result in actual change. If the goal of equitable moderation is to become a reality, then all of the moderators here need to take a serious looks at the issues being raised, a serious look at viewpoints they may disagree with, and a serious look at themselves. And now I'm out for a bit. It's not fun to return to a place I used to enjoy only to find it falling into chaos. Hopefully, things will be better the next time I visit.
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cespar
N3
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MysteryCespar
Posts: 555 Likes: 1,517
inherit
530
0
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cespar
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
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August 2016
cespar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
MysteryCespar
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Post by cespar on May 20, 2017 11:11:05 GMT
I do look at it from the other side. I remember LC saying she hopes Bioware doesn't fix the m/m situation, but she told everyone she got wrongful information from MassBass and apologized for it. She was wrong from that. But she didn't start making fake accounts mocking and making fun of you guys. I've been a lurker since the begin and whatever, I haven't only been posting for fights and stuff in this thread. I mean you can check through my post history on my profile. I just speak my mind on stuff when I want to intervene in something. I'm not going to apologize or shy away for speaking my mind. Free to ignore me, if I am really saying something so trollish or hatefull, but I never had or will. The agreement was broken by her first in her farewell post in Jaal thread which then, as she revealed later, appeared to be a bait: I am sorry but her apology turned out to be insincere before the event went down Well... shit.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 20, 2017 11:14:59 GMT
I understand the desire to get the thread back on track; it's something that I would like to see as well, but until this issue has been resolved, I don't know if that will be possible. Hurt feelings and old disagreements will continue to rear their heads unless this is addressed. Out of respect for your desire to move the thread back on topic, however, this will be my one and only post about the issue of moderation. There is a difference between giving a shit about seeing equitable moderation and truly understanding what constitutes equitable moderation. In order to achieve equitable moderation, both giving a shit and understanding are required. While I do believe that many of the moderators here have good intentions and care about being even handed with the actions that they take to help maintain productive discussions among argumentative outbreaks caused by people with a wide range of conflicting viewpoints, I do not believe that all of the moderators here have a full understanding of the issues that cause those outbreaks. Without that understanding, equitable moderation is a fantasy. Just as it is a fantasy to maintain that there is no problem with how moderation has been applied to these forums when an entire community is now and has been consistently telling you that such a problem exists. It's a fantasy to believe that a group made up of diverse voices, connected through a common strand of identity, is misrepresenting, exaggerating, or being overly sensitive to an issue that it, more than anyone else, has the ability to recognize. And it is a fantasy to expect that group to grin and bear it when their concerns are repeatedly ignored or brushed aside with assurances and platitudes that rarely result in actual change. If the goal of equitable moderation is to become a reality, then all of the moderators here need to take a serious looks at the issues being raised, a serious look at viewpoints they may disagree with, and a serious look at themselves. And now I'm out for a bit. It's not fun to return to a place I used to enjoy only to find it falling into chaos. Hopefully, things will be better the next time I visit. That's helpful, thanks for sharing that.
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Post by caladrius on May 20, 2017 11:15:23 GMT
The agreement was broken by her first in her farewell post in Jaal thread which then, as she revealed later, appeared to be a bait: I am sorry but her apology turned out to be insincere before the event went down Well... shit. That's what I was talking about when I said she'd already said she hated us all, deleted her account, and hid on another one to prove some mystery point.. making it moot that there was an apology.
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cespar
N3
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MysteryCespar
Posts: 555 Likes: 1,517
inherit
530
0
1,517
cespar
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
555
August 2016
cespar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
MysteryCespar
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Post by cespar on May 20, 2017 11:28:41 GMT
That's what I was talking about when I said she'd already said she hated us all, deleted her account, and hid on another one to prove some mystery point.. making it moot that there was an apology. I guess I know why the whole CSI BSN is a thing. I guess I am just an audience member watching and doesn't really know what goes on behind the scenes. >.<. Well I was wrong for jumping to one side.
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