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Post by Nightscrawl on May 21, 2017 9:04:10 GMT
Honestly, even if I weren't swearing off doing any het romances in this game on principle after the mishandling of Gil's romance, I can't say there's much drawing me in with the BroRyder/female character options. No matter what BioWare says, they could come down with a chorus of trumpeting angels from on high telling me that Cora is 25, and I will refuse to accept it - bare minimum, she is thirty, likely older. She talks about serving with the commandos for a few years, and no military is sending a raw recruit to train with alien nationals, to say nothing of the fact that, no matter her skill level, the commandos are an elite 'best of the best' organization, and THEY wouldn't accept a raw recruit in their ranks. Plus there's how she was Alec's second in command, next in line to be a Pathfinder - we see with Sarissa, Avitus, and Hayjer, the 'next in succession' on the official list are people with years of experience, which, again, a twenty-five year old DOES. NOT. HAVE. There is the better part of a decade between her and Ryder, no question of it.
I also feel like she kinda had a bit of a torch for Alec. Not necessarily anything she ever would have wanted to take that far, but I feel like her feelings for Alec were like right on the borderline of 'fatherly mentor figure' and 'guy I'm attracted to.' That's a total turn off for me. The dynamic between her and Ryder just can NOT break out of the older sister vibe. Which, honestly, makes the fact that they put so much time and effort into her romance baffling - I doubt I'm the only one walking away with these feelings, and so are they really saying that straight guys are in to this kind of thing?
Likewise, Peebee's romance involves the meld, and... Oh hell no. I have had consent and boundary issues with the asari meld since ME1, when it was a required plot point that Liara become more intimate with Shepard than most third dates potentially after their first meeting, and in front of an audience no less. I will NEVER romance any asari who wants to meld, under any circumstances. And sure, you can have a fling without her bringing it up, but I am not a 'fling' type - all in or nothing.
Really, the only straight romance I'm inclined to try is Vetra. She's an interesting character and I feel like I'd at least enjoy it. But I'm not going to do any of them as the only form of protest I can offer when I already bought the game.
I REALLY wish that the 'improvements' called for bringing the actors back to the studio so Gil can get new, Jill-free conversations, but I'm also not holding my breath. I really would cite him as a favorite romance if he had more genuine characterization and focus, but what little there is of his content puts so much emphasis on the hellbeast and spawn, and... GAH! There is the potential for him to give Kaidan a run for his money, but they just... they just didn't CARE! Well, that's an.. interesting read on Cora. lol I didn't really get that she was into Alec. I thought she was supposed to serve as a sort of rival for the Pathfinder, that they both got something the other didn't from him. Cora was like a daughter to him, I thought. She got the training and fatherly bond that Ryder didn't get with Alec, yet it was still Ryder that ended up getting the position. I had the same read as you. One of the very first instances that showed this to me was the thing right before you head to Hab 7 with the Good Luck Rock (or whatever it was called). Scott had no idea what it was and Cora had to explain it. I liked Cora as a friend and thought it was interesting to see her grow throughout the game. That said, I would have issues with romancing her because of some of those initial problems with Scott becoming Pathfinder. I know she gets over it, but you do have to initiate a romance while this is still going on, those mental struggles. As for what straight guys want, Cyonan tried to explain it a bit ago after I asked a question about it: And also... I haven't actually seen the whole Cora romance arc, but it seems to me the way she comes to admire Scott as Pathfinder and leader of their merry band also plays into that. But, in the end, I don't know how much of that is the purview of straight men, or is just something that can appeal to people when it comes to these romances. People like to feel special to their partner, needed and wanted, and also that they see a side of them that others do not get to see.
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Post by fadburger on May 21, 2017 9:09:57 GMT
I thought Cora's personality was going to be more like Miranda's, I hadn't heard that "buxom blond" thing (thank goodness for that) and I am glad she turned out different too...but I thought she'd be more aloof and she turned out pretty friendly, even mid-game I was still expecting her to be more like that, since she was expecting to be Pathfinder in the case of Alec's death. She kind of mentions it a couple times, but (as with a lot of things actually) it turns out to not really mean anything really, for the game. Actually everybody turned out to be pretty easy to get to like you, or to settle their issues (Kallo vs. Gil), I was expecting more butting heads between the crew members or having one person be really upset if you chose the other in a dispute like Miranda vs. Jack, for example. I thought Cora would be more like Cassandra, but basically my biggest surprise also was how quickly she came around to you being Pathfinder and how nice she was to you. It didn't really take much for her to be friendly with you. I think it's true, though, this whole group was very easy going. They're like the polar opposite of the DA2 cast atmosphere. lol Yeah I suppose I didn't think about it much before as a comparison to Cassandra in particular (mostly because I was comparing MET to MEA in my head) but I do think I expected her to be sort of like Cassandra in the sense that she'd be rather by the book...but I was expecting to also dislike her a bit (for some reason...thinking about it, I am not sure why exactly) and I like Cassandra far more than I like Miranda.
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Post by caladrius on May 21, 2017 9:26:27 GMT
Well, that's an.. interesting read on Cora. lol I didn't really get that she was into Alec. I thought she was supposed to serve as a sort of rival for the Pathfinder, that they both got something the other didn't from him. Cora was like a daughter to him, I thought. She got the training and fatherly bond that Ryder didn't get with Alec, yet it was still Ryder that ended up getting the position. I had the same read as you. One of the very first instances that showed this to me was the thing right before you head to Hab 7 with the Good Luck Rock (or whatever it was called). Scott had no idea what it was and Cora had to explain it. I liked Cora as a friend and thought it was interesting to see her grow throughout the game. That said, I would have issues with romancing her because of some of those initial problems with Scott becoming Pathfinder. I know she gets over it, but you do have to initiate a romance while this is still going on, those mental struggles. As for what straight guys want, Cyonan tried to explain it a bit ago after I asked a question about it: And also... I haven't actually seen the whole Cora romance arc, but it seems to me the way she comes to admire Scott as Pathfinder and leader of their merry band also plays into that. Well, my whole point was just that I didn't think she was into Alec romantically and that she probably saw him as just a father figure. I didn't mean to make a bigger point on straight female LIs. But I'll comment on this, anyway. lol I'm not sure about the comparison between Morrigan and Cora as a representation of "most" straight guys. Personally, I do love Morrigan's romance as a mostly gay dude. It's actually better than a lot of the m/m romances Bioware has done, for me. I like Morrigan as an LI more than either of the ME:A m/m choices. Conversely, I don't really like Cora or a lot of the ones that have copped criticism from certain demographics. So, I get the personal preference there. I looked back at that conversations, though, and I feel like it's basically impossible to "cater to" one group. Gil is never going to "cater to gay men", because we all want different things, and I'm sure that's something that's absolutely true about straight men, also. Personally, nothing about Gil is interesting to me, as a gay man. It's just a big miss, for me. It's not just Jill, it's practically everything. Others like a lot about him, of course. There's no "what gay men like" or "what straight men like". They'll always, always be catering to a demographic inside of a demographic. I've always believed this issue was more about variety than totally missing their audience. I don't think there are a terribly small number of straight guys that like romances like Cora and Cassandra. I think it's more that guys that like romances like Morrigan and Miranda have just gotten less options, so they're irritated and louder, which I'm not saying isn't fair for them to be. Well, in reason. It's basically the same with gay men and the whole "gay KISA" demand. Not all gay dudes like Cullen. I'm not interested in him at all. Guys that are into that type haven't gotten to romance a guy like him, though, and so they're more irritated about it and louder. I support the idea that Bioware should offer more variety and not fall into the same exact tropes over and over. I just think it's wrong to believe you can ever really cater to a group as big as an entire sexuality. It's massively generalizing people's preferences. I think the amount of people that specifically wanted this one trope would always be smaller than you expect, but I concede that's only my guess.
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Post by Panda on May 21, 2017 9:39:13 GMT
I was expecting romance-wise:
- At least 2 options for all sexualities that are squadmates or comparable to squddies (DAI advisors). - I was expecting different routes to romances in terms of having non-sexual and sexual options. This came true with some. - Since they were claiming the game would have more LI's than ME3, I was expecting there being lot of smaller flings and romances as well, more than we got really. - I was expecting 1 human female and 1 male for starting crew that were both LIs. - Badass commando Asari, pansexual LI. - I was expecting gaylien since it's about a time.
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Post by Panda on May 21, 2017 9:44:11 GMT
Any news on "m/m fix" patch? It's almost end of May..
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dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 21, 2017 9:56:59 GMT
Honestly, even if I weren't swearing off doing any het romances in this game on principle after the mishandling of Gil's romance, I can't say there's much drawing me in with the BroRyder/female character options. No matter what BioWare says, they could come down with a chorus of trumpeting angels from on high telling me that Cora is 25, and I will refuse to accept it - bare minimum, she is thirty, likely older. She talks about serving with the commandos for a few years, and no military is sending a raw recruit to train with alien nationals, to say nothing of the fact that, no matter her skill level, the commandos are an elite 'best of the best' organization, and THEY wouldn't accept a raw recruit in their ranks. Plus there's how she was Alec's second in command, next in line to be a Pathfinder - we see with Sarissa, Avitus, and Hayjer, the 'next in succession' on the official list are people with years of experience, which, again, a twenty-five year old DOES. NOT. HAVE. There is the better part of a decade between her and Ryder, no question of it.
I also feel like she kinda had a bit of a torch for Alec. Not necessarily anything she ever would have wanted to take that far, but I feel like her feelings for Alec were like right on the borderline of 'fatherly mentor figure' and 'guy I'm attracted to.' That's a total turn off for me. The dynamic between her and Ryder just can NOT break out of the older sister vibe. Which, honestly, makes the fact that they put so much time and effort into her romance baffling - I doubt I'm the only one walking away with these feelings, and so are they really saying that straight guys are in to this kind of thing?
Likewise, Peebee's romance involves the meld, and... Oh hell no. I have had consent and boundary issues with the asari meld since ME1, when it was a required plot point that Liara become more intimate with Shepard than most third dates potentially after their first meeting, and in front of an audience no less. I will NEVER romance any asari who wants to meld, under any circumstances. And sure, you can have a fling without her bringing it up, but I am not a 'fling' type - all in or nothing.
Really, the only straight romance I'm inclined to try is Vetra. She's an interesting character and I feel like I'd at least enjoy it. But I'm not going to do any of them as the only form of protest I can offer when I already bought the game.
I REALLY wish that the 'improvements' called for bringing the actors back to the studio so Gil can get new, Jill-free conversations, but I'm also not holding my breath. I really would cite him as a favorite romance if he had more genuine characterization and focus, but what little there is of his content puts so much emphasis on the hellbeast and spawn, and... GAH! There is the potential for him to give Kaidan a run for his money, but they just... they just didn't CARE! Well, that's an.. interesting read on Cora. lol I didn't really get that she was into Alec. I thought she was supposed to serve as a sort of rival for the Pathfinder, that they both got something the other didn't from him. Cora was like a daughter to him, I thought. She got the training and fatherly bond that Ryder didn't get with Alec, yet it was still Ryder that ended up getting the position. See, I might have gotten more of the mentor/mentee vibe from their relationship if the element of the whole 'Ryder leapfrogging her in the chain of succession' had been played up more. As it is, she basically seems to stop herself from lashing out against Ryder and focusing on Papa!Ryder making the decision, mostly in the name of allowing her to be romanced, so that she's not starting having 'feelings' for Ryder while still being angry at them. Like... the human reaction to me in that situation is to harbor at least SOME feelings of resentment directed towards Ryder, even if she knows and recognizes that it's not their fault - hell, a little anger about how they went and got themselves in a position that left Alec willing to sacrifice himself for them would have worked. It's not fair to Ryder, of course, but it's natural. But there's not any real anger directed at Ryder, and all the anger just goes away once she can focus on the asari ark. Come to think of it, it's a lot like the problem I had with Liara in ME1, where she immediately takes this zen 'I choose to remember Benezia as she was' approach to her mother's death, rather than displaying any anger at Shepard for killing her. When the reactions of the character just seem so off to what I think of as natural, yeah, I read them in totally different ways than it seems they were intended because that's the only way I can make sense of them. Honestly, Cora is a character I can't really get a handle on, because she feels too much like two characters slammed into one with no concern how those pieces fit. There's the human biotic who found a place as a potential Pathfinder and Alec Ryder's protege and there's the asari commando looking for her people. And while she got the appearance of the former, her characterization focuses more on the latter, and makes her come across as just... Eh.
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dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 171 Likes: 824
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 21, 2017 9:58:25 GMT
Any news on "m/m fix" patch? It's almost end of May.. No word yet. I'd wager it'll be at least Memorial Day, if not early June before we get what little "improvements" they're likely to offer.
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 21, 2017 10:00:11 GMT
caladrius , sorry about that. I sort of tacked on that extra bit because of dgcatanisiri 's post that you quoted. I suppose I should have separated them out. xD I take your point, though. Hell, I'm a straight woman that got the most options in DAI and I go for the gay dude. I can see why certain elements of each of the f/m options (in DAI) appeal to women, but they just don't do anything for me. (I romanced Cullen on my first play as a woman.) I like both Dorian and Gil because they're each a little bit broken and my first instinct is to want to hug them. After that, personality of the character comes into play, which is the hook for me. Here too, they both use humor to mask pain. They both also reveal their vulnerability to the Inquisitor/Pathfinder. They both allow themselves to trust this one person, opening themselves to the possibility of being hurt by that one person they hold above others. None of the other romances have this specific combination. (I also prefer to romance male humans, so that is also a factor.) When it comes to Gil, I hadn't even intended to buy the damn game. After MEA was released, I heard of the issues surrounding the m/m romances from gay players I'm acquainted with on a different forum. After a time, I went into the Gil thread over here to see what the guys there said about him and his romance. All of the descriptions of his character, despite the other problems with the romance and his content, are what made me want to get the game and romance him. The idea of playing MEA was somewhat appealing (MEA is my first ME game), but if I'm being totally honest I will say that I bought this game to romance Gil because of what I read about him in the Gil thread and how the guys there react to him. Considering that so many straight women are bonkers over Cullen, Solas, and now Jaal, while I am not, I don't really know what to say. If that makes me atypical, I don't much care. (I'm not accusing you of that, just as a general statement.) None of us can help what or who we like, or what pushes our buttons.
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Felya87
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Felya87 on May 21, 2017 10:14:56 GMT
I was expecting a 2/2/2 ratio, with flings for straight male as plus.
I thought the female Turian was going to be the lesbian option. Never thought the fight would have been to have her being romancable for females. I would have though the contrary, since Vetra is not what would I have thought the devs see as "male fantasy" (that's because I never thought the team would have left behind the dudebro attitude that permeate the old trilogy)
I was expecting the two human companion to be LI.
I was expecting the bisexual/pansexual Asari.
I was expecting a bisexual male Alien, if not a all male alien race.
I was expecting a depressing romance with a male LI, if not a chance for a fling with an enemy alien race (companion, I had this idea we would have had two new races alien in the team, even just to have a "Jack/Miranda, or Tali/Legion" episode) of course before he leave us for his race of die in battle, or something. I firmly believed there would have been a "loyalty" test somewhere (a la Wrex/Zevran).
I was expecting a male doctor this time. And when I've seen Lexi, I thought she was going to be one of the flings, if not romance.
I never expected a "bad boy" romance.
Some of my expectation have been true, some no...
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Post by L2 Sentinel on May 21, 2017 10:16:33 GMT
I think it's less a problem of who we have and more about how the romance progressed. If, say, a Gil or Reyes romances were fleshed out some more, they could be interesting. Mind you, I was hooked on Kaidan from ME1 even when unable to romance him but I still see potential with the MEA boys. Yeah... I think the guys themselves are pretty good, but their actual romance content is lacking. Gil in particular has problems because of what his content IS and how that plays out in the game. But I don't hold any of that against the character himself, who I like a bunch, and I think there IS material there to work with. Absolutely no disrespect intended towards Gil or Reyes, but neither of them do it for me. Scott is still young (especially since human life expectancy is increased in the ME universe), so even if ME:A does not get a sequel, I find the prospect of Scott meeting the right guy off screen and after the events of the game more appealing then settling down with either Reyes or Gil, and the baby option is definitely out of the question for me. My Inquisitor was in an unhappy relationship with Dorian for a while before they broke it off. I want my Scott to not waste time on a romance that isn't right for him.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 13:56:58 GMT
I was expecting a 2/2/2 ratio, with flings for straight male as plus. I thought the female Turian was going to be the lesbian option. Never thought the fight would have been to have her being romancable for females. I would have though the contrary, since Vetra is not what would I have thought the devs see as "male fantasy" (that's because I never thought the team would have left behind the dudebro attitude that permeate the old trilogy)
I was expecting the two human companion to be LI. I was expecting the bisexual/pansexual Asari. I was expecting a bisexual male Alien, if not a all male alien race. I was expecting a depressing romance with a male LI, if not a chance for a fling with an enemy alien race (companion, I had this idea we would have had two new races alien in the team, even just to have a "Jack/Miranda, or Tali/Legion" episode) of course before he leave us for his race of die in battle, or something. I firmly believed there would have been a "loyalty" test somewhere (a la Wrex/Zevran). I was expecting a male doctor this time. And when I've seen Lexi, I thought she was going to be one of the flings, if not romance. I never expected a "bad boy" romance. Some of my expectation have been true, some no... I am so use to never getting the LI I pine for (because it is usually the main story relevant LI) I was sure we wouldn't get Vetra. I think we compare Mass Effect to Dragon Age too much when it comes to romance expectation. Mass effect has never had a gay or lesbian LI squadmate and their crewmate content has never been DA:I adviser level. But I did believe they learned a lesson with Kaiden about always having at least a bisexual or gay LI of each gender on the squad. Jade empire can do this in 2006 but Andromeda can't?? It is so pathetic and they were proud of it? I am also really disappointed by the pacing of some romance arcs. The game can be played a lot after the final mission but they didn't think to include a short repeatable dialogue? Everyone complains about Vetra's slow burn arc because its over as soon as it starts. Also the horrible onslaught of side quests kills the pacing of both the story and romance arcs. I am having trouble with pt two because of it. That is usually not a problem for me with Bioware games. I mean it isn't all bad. I enjoy Vetra as an LI, I like professional Sara as a protagonist, and enjoy the combat. But that boring open world side quests/fetch quests onslaught that have you planet hopping and driving for hours at a time and uneven romance distribution between orientations and even different squadmates are the big flaws imo.
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dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 171 Likes: 824
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 21, 2017 14:11:02 GMT
The comparison to Dragon Age with Mass Effect, I'd say, stems from the fact that Dragon Age Inquisition was, if nothing else, a financial success, and there were gay companions, male and female. Like, the game earned 'Game of the Year,' and it had two gay people as main party members. So the expectation was 'hey, you had gay people in the party in the sister franchise to Mass Effect, it wouldn't kill you to do that in Mass Effect.'
Plus, you know, Kaidan was bi in ME3 and in the squad - comparatively to just the previous game in the series, Andromeda was a backslide, and on a subject that Mass Effect as a franchise was already lagging on, since ME3 was the first appearance of M/M romances, despite Liara being an option for FemShep since day one.
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moderately incensed firmicute
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Stay strong, and queer!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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moderately incensed firmicute
Stay strong, and queer!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by moderately incensed firmicute on May 21, 2017 14:26:07 GMT
For Squadmates, I was honestly expecting Jaal to be like Evfra is so it was kind of a surprise he wasn't. I also expected Cora to be, well, the new Miranda when people kept describing her as the 'buxom blond' before we'd seen her. I'm very glad she was different, I don't think I could have dealt with all those unnecessary ass shots again. I don't think I had strong opinions on the other prior to release, and if I did, they probably ended up close to what I expected. eta: I also expected Jaal and/or Liam to be bi. But we all know how that turned out. old hurt.. evfra said that he has a good day when his people kill more than they get killed. He lost his family to kett and then took over the org, since then finally shit gets done.. So he has to close himself off, I dont think you can lead some sort of army equivalent were because of its small size you will know most of combattants if you cant deal with the knowledge that every single person could die at any moment.. I think a soul can only take so much beating, so trying to distance yourself from those feelings of hurt, not allowing yourself hope would be.. not healthy, but necessary.
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Mir Aven
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Mir Aven on May 21, 2017 14:36:41 GMT
...Well. What was anyone expecting out of the companions before they were revealed? Because I had high hopes. They were pretty similar to what I imagined, except Gil and PB. With Gil, I remember reading somewhere that he likes to hide behind humor. I can relate to that so I thought that we'll be good friends. Unfortunately I didn't find him funny, at all. He reminded me of a child that was waiting for someone to tell him what to do, hence his dependency on Jill. His whole relationship with her rubbed me the wrong way. They didn't seem like friends to me. As I mentioned Gil's way to dependent on Jill and Jill is way to controling. All in all I was really disappointed in Gil as a character. With PB, I thought she's going to be way more annoying. It turned out she wasn't so bad and with time she became like a "sometimes annoying little sister" to my Ryder despite the fact that she's way older.
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farferello
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Salty Arcann Trash
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by farferello on May 21, 2017 15:12:43 GMT
For Squadmates, I was honestly expecting Jaal to be like Evfra is so it was kind of a surprise he wasn't. I also expected Cora to be, well, the new Miranda when people kept describing her as the 'buxom blond' before we'd seen her. I'm very glad she was different, I don't think I could have dealt with all those unnecessary ass shots again. I don't think I had strong opinions on the other prior to release, and if I did, they probably ended up close to what I expected.
eta: I also expected Jaal and/or Liam to be bi. But we all know how that turned out. old hurt.. evfra said that he has a good day when his people kill more than they get killed. He lost his family to kett and then took over the org, since then finally shit gets done.. So he has to close himself off, I dont think you can lead some sort of army equivalent were because of its small size you will know most of combattants if you cant deal with the knowledge that every single person could die at any moment.. I think a soul can only take so much beating, so trying to distance yourself from those feelings of hurt, not allowing yourself hope would be.. not healthy, but necessary. Agreed. Evfra is a very interesting character and I'm happy he doesn't immediately become your best friend. You have to work for and earn his trust and it's nice to see him slowly open up more to the Pathfinder over the course of the game. That said, he has good reason to be guarded, both because of his personal life of losing his family to the Kett AND because he's a leader, the Leader that people rely on. He can't afford to make mistakes in trusting the wrong person/group after what has already happened. That said, he's also very different to Aksuul, he could have easily gone down that path but he didn't and I love that nuance about his character.
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Post by fialka on May 21, 2017 16:26:44 GMT
My expectations of the characters... (also, I apologize in advance for this, as I know it will be long. But the characters are my favorite thing about Bioware games, so I love talking about them! And the romances are my second favorite, so...) Jaal: He was the one I looked forward to the most, but ended up being the biggest disappointment. Loved his design and his intro in that trailer, and was super excited when they hinted that he'd be a romance. But... he was nothing like I imagined. I do like him, but... I too thought he would be more like Evfra - his intro in the game where he's all standoffish and threatens to kill you in your sleep seemed to support that. Next thing I knew he was flirting with every female squadmate both on and off the Tempest and it turned me right off. Add to that the cringe-worthy dialogue if you hit those flirts-disguised-as-friendship icons and his weird speech patterns and his romance lost its appeal further. And that was before I learned his romance was straight out of the popular but badly-written fanfiction I avoid... Now I just resent the fact that I feel obligated to drag him along everywhere and that he got like 90% of the resources devoted to the f/m romances. To me he's MEA's Liara - the game really wants me to like him, and he's pushed on me to the point where I'm soured on what might have been a favorite character otherwise. Liam: I expected to like him before the game came out, but considering his writer, I wasn't 100% sure what to expect. Lukas's work is all over the place and his characters have been really hit or miss for me. But I was pleasantly surprised by Liam, and subsequent playthroughs have only made me love him more. There's a lot more depth to him than players give him credit for. It's unfortunate so many players quickly dismiss him. I did think he would be more like a human Garrus (as he has a similar background), but he actually has more in common with Sera. Him having the qualities I found endearing in her, fortunately, versus those that made me want to wring her neck at times. Drack: Another pleasant surprise. I thought he would be like Wrex, or, worse, Grunt 2.0. I love Wrex but was initially disappointed that one of our few squadmate slots was given to yet another battle-happy male Krogan. Especially since I never understood why people liked the Krogan so much in the trilogy - they were always my least favorite species as there didn't seem much more to them than fighting, breeding, and resentment. But I love Drack! Not sure what it is... objectively there isn't that much there to set him apart from our other Krogan guys, but... I think he's great. One of my favorites. I really like the Krogan a lot more now after MEA as well. Vetra: Unpopular opinion here, but she was another disappointment. I was excited for our first female turian permanent squadmate, and after reading her bio I was thinking she'd have some grit to her. Was hoping she'd be our resident renegade. She gets up to the occasional semi-shady business deal, sure, but she's this really nice lady who likes taking care of people and loves her sister so it's all okay. She just felt really bland to me. I know her lack of content is partly to blame (it really seems her word budget was way smaller than anyone else's on the squad), but there's minor NPCs where the writers seemed to do a lot more with a lot less. Again, she's likable enough, and her VA is great, but she really fell flat to me as a character. PeeBee: She's... actually exactly what I expected... Of course, they did market her a lot so there wasn't much left for the actual game to surprise me with. But I did expect to like her. And I do. Quite a bit, actually, and her VA did an awesome job bringing her to life. I could've done without the whole her jumping on me and straddling my thighs when I met her... And why are my (straight) Sara's hands on her hips like that and why can't I throw her off sooner!? And why do I have to be all apologetic to her from not wanting to sex her up in the escape pod - I was actually in a romance with someone else at that point and the whole 'I can be discreet' thing kinda pissed me off since I found it really disrespectful. Still, barring those scenes which are sadly typical of Mass Effect at this point (because Asari amirite? ), I think PeeBee is a great character, and I liked that my Sara could be her friend but still call her out on her shit. It was a friendship arc I really enjoyed and I'm glad I liked her enough to appreciate it. Cora: She was also more or less how I expected her to be - from the pre-game marketing she came across as warm, friendly, and professional. I expected to like her, but didn't think she'd really wow me... and that's exactly what I got. As many others have mentioned, I was hoping the conflict over Ryder being chosen as Pathfinder would be given more weight, and found it a missed opportunity. I also didn't think we'd hear the whole biotic angst story again, since it was already done with both Jack and Kaidan and they both did it better... and thought the fact that my Sara couldn't chime in since the Ryder twins are also canonically biotic (just up to the payer if they want to have him/her use it) was another missed opportunity. Reyes: Yeah, he's not a squadmate, but, I think he deserves an honorable mention. I was intrigued by the mystery guy with the sexy voice and accent from Sara's gameplay video, but had assumed he'd be someone who recruited to the Tempest, or someone on the Nexus we worked with. Was excited to get confirmation he was a fling at least (since that's what early data-mining seemed to suggest) but was disappointed he was 'just' an NPC on some planet. Had few expectations about his character since he wasn't really marketed at all, but I figured his romance would be the one I maybe got around to at some point... But I totally fell in love with him and found myself tempted to romance him my first playthrough! Now he's one of my favorite characters next to Liam and Drack. And one of my favorite Bioware romances. The romances: Ah yes, these... 'PrettGoodBanging', 'more romances than ever,' and something about natural progression. Also, something something balance and distribution. Oh boy... So first, the good: I do like that there were lots of opportunities to flirt but you only had to take three of them. That you were able to roleplay your character even within the romance... a huge improvement to the trilogy where you either had to dodge landmines to not get ninja-manced (oh, ME1 Kaidan and Liara...) or choose super cringe-worthy dialogue in order to get the ball rolling (looking at you Mr. Reach and Flexibility...) So that was cool. Because I didn't feel like my protagonist was ever out of character within the romances, and I like that you can approach the same romance in different ways across different playthroughs. Also both Reyes and Liam are awesome, so I had some really nice options. Sadly it was their strength as characters that carried the romances for me and made them worth doing... Versus the romances themselves. Now, I did think they were an improvement over ME2. But that's not really saying much. I thought both ME3 (with the DLCs) and Inquisition did it better. Both in the amount of content the romances got (at least the ones I played) and in the game's reactivity to them - both from the squad, and from the LI themselves outside the designated romance 'scenes' and flirty dialogue paths. And if there's pretty good banging, I sure as hell didn't see it. Apparently as a straight woman I was supposed to romance Jaal. What - you're not a 'typical' woman who loves to be treated like a lady and written sappy love letters and have a romance straight out of a bodice-ripper novel? No banging for you, chikadee. You get brief kiss scenes with animations straight out of 2006. Enjoy. What else? Natural progression? Okay, I'll give them that with the varied flirt options. Pacing could use work though. Liam's starts and then... you get nothing for like 50 hours of game if you're a completionist. Am I even in a romance? Did I mess something up? Maybe Liam is bugged...? Fortunately I was patient enough to see it through (though Reyes was looking damned tempting there) and the end game delivered nicely in that regard. Reyes' actual romance arc is better, though you have to pace yourself through Kadara to not have the opposite issue with it happening stupidly fast. And then after it's all done, it's done. No e-mails, no acknowledgement from Reyes until Meridian. Again, am I even in a romance? More romance than ever? Let's see... I got three options. In ME2 where femShep had the most options... there were three. 'Kay. The gay guys got two. How may did you guys get in ME3 again, the only MET game where you actually had any? Right... But, hey straight dudes got a bunch! And last but certainly not least... balance and distribution. AHAHAHA... ha. Ahem. Now, as a straight woman I had it alright. I could complain about the lack of content all day long for the romances I liked but the fact that I'm not into Jaal is on me. And at least I got squadmates to pick from, plural. But straight Scott wins, with the most options, period. The most options on the squad. And the bulk of the romance content in the game being, again, given to him. And, well, the m/m situation is just beyond shitty and there's zero excuse. Especially pre-patch 1.05 where they apparently didn't even bother to watch the Reyes scenes with a male player or did and thought it was good enough - not sure which is worse. Now, I love MEA. A lot. Yes, it has its flaws but I'm really enjoying the hell out of it. And had they not marketed the romances the way they had I might even be alright with how it all worked out - or at least not as annoyed by it (barring the m/m situation, obviously). But the marketing set my expectations really high, and the game simply did not deliver.
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Post by Sairys on May 21, 2017 16:43:52 GMT
I'm just disappointed in general with the romance. They hyped it up, it's the thing in Bioware games that make them more unique over other games, which to me with the romances and the depth of the companion/squad camaraderie makes their games more immersive, and yet despite all that hype in this game over the romances we get and how much more they were going to be compared to the OT, only what, Cora, Peebee and Jaal, get the in depth feel to them? Liam got a lot of screen time with no final love scene (the couch before the relationship doesn't count, it happened before the lock-in) and I didn't understand half of what Liam was talking about. (And Peebee was annoying AF)
And then there's their take on the Bad-boy of the group (think Zevran, Anders, Solas, Archangel) our Reyes doesn't even get to be a companion. Reyes is relegated to a single planetary quest-line and then absolutely nothing after. He can't even be pulled away from his omni-tool when he's talking to you in Meridian when it's all over.
Gil got very little screen time with our character and I didn't play Vetra through but I heard there was just a burnt dinner?
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Post by moderately incensed firmicute on May 21, 2017 17:16:38 GMT
fialka .. about Drackiboy I think what I like in Drack is that he isnt just a battlehappy krogan. because hes A hat from the planets of hats.. hes battlehappy because its the only thing he knew for long and because he feels that hes useless.. I think he feels like he lost purpose after raising kesh and can learn that just being there for friends and supporting them can be purpose and shit enough.. he doesn't care for himself, so he has problems accepting that other people do i love that he opens up and tells you that he had really low parts, or that he is one of the first who just unconditionally tells you "hey, i'm sorry your dad died"
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 21, 2017 17:46:05 GMT
Just for the record, Gamble is still liking comments in #makejaalbi
queerbaiting? Who knows, but I'm stupid and this gives me hope :D8:
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 19:01:56 GMT
At least MEA didnt have one of these
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Post by Salty Drell on May 21, 2017 19:13:46 GMT
At least MEA didnt have one of these None of those, so it had to have one of these...
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 19:27:21 GMT
At least MEA didnt have one of these None of those, so it had to have one of these... True but thankfully that thing isnt a romance option and marginally less in the way of gay sex. Sadly the baster queen can't be Ripley'd out the airlock though.
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Post by Mir Aven on May 21, 2017 19:33:30 GMT
Just for the record, Gamble is still liking comments in #makejaalbi queerbaiting? Who knows, but I'm stupid and this gives me hope :D8: Or, you know, he's liking the "set aside $75 of every paycheck for MEA merch" part.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 21, 2017 20:03:21 GMT
Or, you know, he's liking the "set aside $75 of every paycheck for MEA merch" part. he responded this if bi Jaal is never going to be a thing, better ignore all these comments and shut down the hopes of these people with a simple "No, what it's done it's done" but he liked a lot of comments in that hashtag, the first like was one of my tweets even. But ya know ME team :poop:
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Post by Dirk on May 21, 2017 20:05:54 GMT
Or, you know, he's liking the "set aside $75 of every paycheck for MEA merch" part. he responded this if bi Jaal is never going to be a thing, better ignore all these comments and shut down the hopes of these people with a simple "No, what it's done it's done" but he liked a lot of comments in that hashtag, the first liked was one of my tweets even. But ya know ME team :poop:
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