raikas
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by raikas on May 26, 2017 17:59:42 GMT
If my father ever tried to send me off to conversion therapy (aka blood magic) I would never, ever honor his legacy. I would burn down everything in his life like he tried to do with mine. I don't forgive sadistic assholes that hold on to disgustingly rude traditions for the sake of the nation. Bye, Dorian's dad. You're nothing. Frankly I think the legacy bit is more about Dorian's entire lineage and culture than it is his father specifically. I think it makes just as much sense (if not more) for that to be about family honour in the less immediate sense. Reconciliation shouldn't even be an option there. No abuse victim should be pushed to forgive their abuser, it should be entirely their choice and whatever that choice is should be respected. Dorian wants to get the hell out of there, I agree with him. Plus, quite frankly, I don't believe Halward Pavus's 'change of heart' for a second - at most, he understands the thing that he did was wrong, but not that the underlying motivation was. Which honestly makes the whole thing come across as one more manipulation of Dorian. He doesn't deserve forgiveness. He deserves a fireball to the face. Eh, depending on your philosophical bent, forgiveness is more about the peace of mind for the person giving it than the person being granted it. While that might or might not be any given person's attitude towards forgiveness, it's definitely a reading that a lot of people embrace IRL - think about something like Desmond Tutu's forgiveness challenge, which is all about developing the ability to forgive people/events who don't necessarily "deserve" it, because it's not supposed to be a gift for them, it's for your own ability to move forward. I don't follow that philosophy of forgiveness myself (I'm too petty), but it's definitely something that people do, and the reconciliation option is perfectly in line with that. If the game forced you to make that choice, then I'd see your point, but it's just an option - and one that works well with that other forgiveness philosophy. |
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 26, 2017 18:24:15 GMT
Read A Land Fit for Heroes recently, he wrote gay pretty well for a straight man. A LOT of gay romance novels are also written by straight women, they're not all terrible. A lot of straight men kind of suck at writing women, especially if the main character is their own male protagonist. They're often put on a pedestal and made to be perfect: impossibly gorgeous, intelligent, fierce, competent, and so on. So this actually makes me wonder if a straight guy writing gay guys is more... I don't know... realistic for how men are in that he sees men as just being normal people, rather than this attractive, appealing ideal form. While gay men also find other men sexually attractive, the difference is that they are also men, so they're not going to "other" other men. I think the opposite is true as well, with gay men writing women. I think David Gaider's women are very well written. This might have to do with being gay, since he's not attracted to women, and so doesn't look at them through that filter. |
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dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 26, 2017 18:49:44 GMT
Read A Land Fit for Heroes recently, he wrote gay pretty well for a straight man. A LOT of gay romance novels are also written by straight women, they're not all terrible. A concern there, though, is women authors who are using M/M relationships to fetishize them - there's a lot of controversy in the whole industry because there are a lot of (straight) women shouting down actual gay men who are trying to break in and tell their stories. Like a Tumblr post I've seen going around mentions that at one publisher for erotic novels dropped their only gay man on the basis that he wasn't writing what women wanted to read. So the number of straight women writing gay romance novels are less writing the experiences of gay men and more writing what straight women fantasize a M/M relationship to be, and pushing the voices of gay men writing FOR gay men out of the way. |
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Post by Ryzaki on May 26, 2017 18:55:08 GMT
Read A Land Fit for Heroes recently, he wrote gay pretty well for a straight man. A LOT of gay romance novels are also written by straight women, they're not all terrible. A concern there, though, is women authors who are using M/M relationships to fetishize them - there's a lot of controversy in the whole industry because there are a lot of (straight) women shouting down actual gay men who are trying to break in and tell their stories. Like a Tumblr post I've seen going around mentions that at one publisher for erotic novels dropped their only gay man on the basis that he wasn't writing what women wanted to read. So the number of straight women writing gay romance novels are less writing the experiences of gay men and more writing what straight women fantasize a M/M relationship to be, and pushing the voices of gay men writing FOR gay men out of the way. Wait were his books not selling the amount they expected them to sell tho? Because if you're not selling the amount that's expected yeah being booted is a reasonable outcome. If he was getting a different audience but still selling well then him being dropped makes no sense. |
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dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 26, 2017 19:07:11 GMT
A concern there, though, is women authors who are using M/M relationships to fetishize them - there's a lot of controversy in the whole industry because there are a lot of (straight) women shouting down actual gay men who are trying to break in and tell their stories. Like a Tumblr post I've seen going around mentions that at one publisher for erotic novels dropped their only gay man on the basis that he wasn't writing what women wanted to read. So the number of straight women writing gay romance novels are less writing the experiences of gay men and more writing what straight women fantasize a M/M relationship to be, and pushing the voices of gay men writing FOR gay men out of the way. Wait were his books not selling the amount they expected them to sell tho? Because if you're not selling the amount that's expected yeah being booted is a reasonable outcome. If he was getting a different audience but still selling well then him being dropped makes no sense. Lemme dig up the Tumblr post in question... So it's basically yes, his stories weren't selling, because they were not what the straight women reading were buying. Because he was telling stories from the perspective of a gay man writing gay men, and the straight female audience was unhappy with it. |
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Post by Ryzaki on May 26, 2017 19:12:23 GMT
Wait were his books not selling the amount they expected them to sell tho? Because if you're not selling the amount that's expected yeah being booted is a reasonable outcome. If he was getting a different audience but still selling well then him being dropped makes no sense. Lemme dig up the Tumblr post in question... So it's basically yes, his stories weren't selling, because they were not what the straight women reading were buying. Because he was telling stories from the perspective of a gay man writing gay men, and the straight female audience was unhappy with it. The only issue I see here is the gay men he was writing the stories for didn't buy his books. (Outside of the that's not sexy complaints because really there's publishers that's all for the non consent they should've been forced to switch publishers too) Maybe going to another publisher who focused on the gay male audience instead of female readers would've served him better. If he was selling the expected (or more) and they dropped him yeah that's fucked up and he should sue for discrimination. |
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 26, 2017 19:18:10 GMT
I kinda of want to read that guy now (I'm not into romance novels, though...), especially if he's the exact opposite of: I find that revolting, and not at all sexy, and would not want to read it. This reminds me of one occasion where Rouccoco mentioned he read a fic where they used candle wax as lube. I don't even want to know what was behind that thought process. As an aside, I do think it's interesting that they have such a policy. [edit] Thanks for finding it, btw. |
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Post by Ryzaki on May 26, 2017 19:23:46 GMT
I kinda of want to read that guy now (I'm not into romance novels, though...), especially if he's the exact opposite of: I find that revolting, and not at all sexy, and would not want to read it. This reminds me of one occasion where Rouccoco mentioned he read a fic where they used candle wax as lube. I don't even want to know what was behind that thought process. As an aside, I do think it's interesting that they have such a policy. Wat. Does that person know how candle wax works?!? I mean if you're gonna write sex you could do some basic research damn. |
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Post by Dirk on May 26, 2017 19:31:34 GMT
Author Anthony Horowitz was recently told he should not write a black character because he was not black. His solution:
“Taking it to its logical extreme, all my characters will from now on be 62-year-old white Jewish men living in London.”  I'm not saying that heterosexual people cannot write well-rounded and multi-faceted lgbt+ characters, but... I have been saying for quite some time now that there needs to be more queer writers included in games if the studio in question is touting itself as "all-inclusive". In this case, of gender identities and sexual orientations other than heterosexual. Or else you'll get Andromeda. Actually I am going to blame the romance situation in ME:A more on higher-up, decision-making devs like Mac Walters rather than writers (except for Gil case). The least they can do is to get some more inputs from queer people, listen to them, and incorporate the ideas into games. |
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 26, 2017 19:34:55 GMT
I kinda of want to read that guy now (I'm not into romance novels, though...), especially if he's the exact opposite of: I find that revolting, and not at all sexy, and would not want to read it. This reminds me of one occasion where Rouccoco mentioned he read a fic where they used candle wax as lube. I don't even want to know what was behind that thought process. As an aside, I do think it's interesting that they have such a policy. Wat. Does that person know how candle wax works?!? I mean if you're gonna write sex you could do some basic research damn. The even dumber thing about it is that women need lube, too, so it's not some foreign idea. And hey, if olive oil was good enough for the Greeks and Romans, it's good enough for your random fanfiction. I don't know, maybe I just want something different from my m/m content than other straight women: guys that are into each other, and laughing, and having fun, and being sweet and romantic, and getting off on getting each other off. |
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Aliaspig
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Aliaspig on May 26, 2017 19:37:29 GMT
If you want more diversity on the screen, then there has to be more diversity behind the screen as well. And, that applies to all forms of media. I'm not saying that straight writers can't or shouldn't write gay characters, but, that when it comes to writing them, straight writers tend to focus a lot less on who the characters and more on what the characters are.
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Post by Ryzaki on May 26, 2017 19:39:54 GMT
Wat. Does that person know how candle wax works?!? I mean if you're gonna write sex you could do some basic research damn. The even dumber thing about it is that women need lube, too, so it's not some foreign idea. I don't know, maybe I just want something different from my m/m content than other straight women: guys that are into each other, and laughing, and having fun, and being sweet and romantic, and getting off on getting each other off. Seriously. I could get the lack of super prep because some women need very little but candle wax?!? Yeah I'm more into the dark wtf someone shoot this crazy jackass fiction myself but I don't try to pretend that shit's romantic or anything other than written porn. |
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Post by Fredward on May 26, 2017 20:25:39 GMT
Read A Land Fit for Heroes recently, he wrote gay pretty well for a straight man. A LOT of gay romance novels are also written by straight women, they're not all terrible. A concern there, though, is women authors who are using M/M relationships to fetishize them - there's a lot of controversy in the whole industry because there are a lot of (straight) women shouting down actual gay men who are trying to break in and tell their stories. Like a Tumblr post I've seen going around mentions that at one publisher for erotic novels dropped their only gay man on the basis that he wasn't writing what women wanted to read. So the number of straight women writing gay romance novels are less writing the experiences of gay men and more writing what straight women fantasize a M/M relationship to be, and pushing the voices of gay men writing FOR gay men out of the way. Gonna put this in spoilers since it's off topic.
Yeah, I'm vaguely aware of the conflict. Men watch lesbian porn, women read mm romance novels. At the same time, what are you gonna do? I don't think it's a fair characterization to say straight women are pushing or prohibiting gay men from telling stories they may or may not have some 'natural' claim to, especially not when in the same breath they acknowledge that it's mostly straight women buying these novels anyway. If you're writing for a niche, and it's pretty deep niche if you're writing for readers -> males -> gay males specifically, make sure that niche can support you. On Reddit the author of the Captive Prince (a woman) actually showed up and asked about their take on gaylit and IIRC (it's been a while) the response was kinda lukewarm.
Sooo, yeah. I think there's a degree of conflation and scapegoating going on there, female writers aren't 'poaching' gay readers they're serving a market, an interest, that exists. Replace the women with men and replace the tone with something more 'authentic' the readership isn't necessarily going to migrate to it. If gay men want to write for gay men in particular the only thing standing in the way is interest levels.
The fetishization angle might be more of a thing but I haven't given it a ton of thought. A lot of reading is escapism, inhabiting a space that you can't have by definition seems to align neatly enough with that. Plus there is that undertone of 'you need to write what you are' which is just... bleh. It might be a thing of degrees but, anyway, rambling. Sorry if this wasn't entirely cogent or consistent with what you're saying, I've been looking for somewhere to splurge my thoughts that wasn't ridiculously polarized for a while.
One thing that is squick is female writers taking male pseudonyms and then writing male erotica. I don't know how common this is anymore since it seems like it's taken for granted that more women write gaylit than men but I know this was the case with Josh Lanyon. I really like her books, the primary series anyway, but something about that just sits very uncomfortably. The other two guys I read regularly is Alexis Hall and Damon Suede. I'm preeettty sure Alexis is a dude anyway, despite the name.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 20:27:24 GMT
Has there been any Andromeda news lately? My apologies for the inconvenience. I kept this thread open in a tab but I haven't been here in like a month. Horizon Zero Dawn, Prey, and my unfortunate descent back into fanfiction have been distracting me.  Not really anything solid. We know that the CC patch is in the works and on schedule. We assume that the M/M improvements will arrive in the same patch. If they intend to keep schedule it should be next week, June 4. Personal guess? The week of E3. Which also seems like a good venue to announce the rumored Quarian DLC. Was a small hint in the Multiplayer stream last night with the devs. That's about it, so far. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 20:33:23 GMT
Has there been any Andromeda news lately? My apologies for the inconvenience. I kept this thread open in a tab but I haven't been here in like a month. Horizon Zero Dawn, Prey, and my unfortunate descent back into fanfiction have been distracting me. Not really anything solid. We know that the CC patch is in the works and on schedule. We assume that the M/M improvements will arrive in the same patch. If they intend to keep schedule it should be next week, June 4. Personal guess? The week of E3. Which also seems like a good venue to announce the rumored Quarian DLC. Was a small hint in the Multiplayer stream last night with the devs. That's about it, so far. And there it is.. My small (and probably stupid) hope that ''Quarian DLC'' will include gay male companion even if it will be just for 3-4 missions, or even better - he will be integrated in the main game like Kasumi in ME2 was or Javik in ME3... I know I know...  |
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on May 26, 2017 20:40:58 GMT
Read A Land Fit for Heroes recently, he wrote gay pretty well for a straight man. A LOT of gay romance novels are also written by straight women, they're not all terrible. A concern there, though, is women authors who are using M/M relationships to fetishize them - there's a lot of controversy in the whole industry because there are a lot of (straight) women shouting down actual gay men who are trying to break in and tell their stories. Like a Tumblr post I've seen going around mentions that at one publisher for erotic novels dropped their only gay man on the basis that he wasn't writing what women wanted to read. So the number of straight women writing gay romance novels are less writing the experiences of gay men and more writing what straight women fantasize a M/M relationship to be, and pushing the voices of gay men writing FOR gay men out of the way. It's pretty obvious, too. The sex scenes are so over the top and people fall in love after a single encounter. I just read this m/m book because I wanted to read about gay guys with super powers. The story was good but I felt the relationship aspects fell flat. And it was written by a woman. |
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Post by Rouccoco on May 26, 2017 21:43:31 GMT
I find that revolting, and not at all sexy, and would not want to read it. This reminds me of one occasion where Rouccoco mentioned he read a fic where they used candle wax as lube. I don't even want to know what was behind that thought process I mean...if anything it would increase friction. I guess a lot of the problems with gay sex in fan fiction comes from treating the bottom like a woman. Who has an ass that's actually a vagina. |
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Post by Walter Black on May 26, 2017 22:12:51 GMT
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on May 26, 2017 22:18:38 GMT
There really just needs to be a lot more honestly when it comes to marketing LGBT content.
Like, there should be a sticker on Yaoi or M/M media that says "This is blatant fetish porn for straight women. Gay men should probably read something else. Sorry." If fanfiction writers are willing to do that than why not mainstream publishers? Hell, I would have forgiven stuff like Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey if all their covers said something like "This is for bored house wives and naive teenagers girls. Do not take seriously because this content is decidedly fucked up."
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 26, 2017 22:40:04 GMT
Straight people can't write gay. There, I said it. They suck at it and should be banned. Author Anthony Horowitz was recently told he should not write a black character because he was not black. His solution:
“Taking it to its logical extreme, all my characters will from now on be 62-year-old white Jewish men living in London.” I would appreciate it if Anthony Horowitz would stop writing generally, tbh. But I'm not saying that straight writers should stop writing gay characters because they're straight. They should stop writing gay characters because they are terrible at it. |
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 26, 2017 22:43:15 GMT
I guess we'll never get any gay characters in AAA games if straight people are banned from writing gay characters. Thanks a lot you assholes. We don't get them now, so who cares? Also, calm down, nobody here has the power to enforce such a ban, if it did exist. But if it did exist, they could, I dunno, HIRE GAY WRITERS??? |
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 26, 2017 22:44:25 GMT
I find that revolting, and not at all sexy, and would not want to read it. This reminds me of one occasion where Rouccoco mentioned he read a fic where they used candle wax as lube. I don't even want to know what was behind that thought process I mean...if anything it would increase friction. I guess a lot of the problems with gay sex in fan fiction comes from treating the bottom like a woman. Who has an ass that's actually a vagina. You shouldn't stick candle wax in a vagina either. |
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on May 26, 2017 22:52:08 GMT
I mean...if anything it would increase friction. I guess a lot of the problems with gay sex in fan fiction comes from treating the bottom like a woman. Who has an ass that's actually a vagina. You shouldn't stick candle wax in a vagina either. I didn't take you for a prude, pessimistpanda. You gotta let your inner serial killer freak out sometimes and some have kinky fun. |
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 26, 2017 22:53:12 GMT
You shouldn't stick candle wax in a vagina either. I didn't take you for a prude, pessimistpanda. You gotta let your inner serial killer freak out sometimes and some have kinky fun. I'm a freak, just not for yeast infections. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 26, 2017 23:06:28 GMT
I guess we'll never get any gay characters in AAA games if straight people are banned from writing gay characters. Thanks a lot you assholes. We don't get them now, so who cares? Also, calm down, nobody here has the power to enforce such a ban, if it did exist. But if it did exist, they could, I dunno, HIRE GAY WRITERS??? Apparently, gay people are all illiterate.  Wait a minute....  Hi, Gertrude Stein!  Capote, nice of you to join us.  Always a pleasure, David Leviathan. I could add more, but I think I've made my point. |
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