Foelhe
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 165 Likes: 586
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Post by Foelhe on May 28, 2017 2:30:36 GMT
It should be pretty clear that my initial comment was facetious, but the frustration comes from a real place. If I was in a position to hire writers for a project that was specifically producing LGBT content for an LGBT audience, then I would only look at gay writers. I would specifically put out a call for LGBT writers and and ONLY LGBT writers I wouldn't open the opportunity for straight writers to apply in the first place. They already get to write EVERYTHING ELSE. They don't need this opportunity, and gay writers do. I'm not the only one who feels this way. There are organisations specifically geared to helping minority groups break into the arts and media industry, and I have attended such events. So if a talented straight writer applied to your team, showing a genuine desire to learn how to write LBGTQ characters and themes better and use their works to increase LBGTQ visibility and respect, you would still say no? The prospect of true progress is worth less to you than being able to "See how it feels? IT'S OUR TURN NOW!!!"  Nice fantasy, but every time I tell a straight guy he doesn't understand gay issues, he starts whining about how I'm persecuting him. |
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on May 28, 2017 2:43:08 GMT
Given that Ryder can tell Gil that they think Jill is being hurtful with her comments it seems like the writers knew that their plot could be interpreted as controversial but decided to still do it anyways for some baffling reason.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on May 28, 2017 3:12:40 GMT
Yeah, I think Gil was pretty much the biggest victim of a much larger issue with MEA's characters. So many of them just feel underwritten. I mean, with the exception of Jaal MEA does really a breakout character that's going to be fondly remembered in the future as a great video game character in my opinion. I don't even really like Jaal. Agree on Jaal. As for Gil, possibly true. Had his romance arc been longer, the Jill issue might have been less problematic. |
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Post by Steelcan on May 28, 2017 3:18:58 GMT
So if a talented straight writer applied to your team, showing a genuine desire to learn how to write LBGTQ characters and themes better and use their works to increase LBGTQ visibility and respect, you would still say no? The prospect of true progress is worth less to you than being able to "See how it feels? IT'S OUR TURN NOW!!!" Nice fantasy, but every time I tell a straight guy he doesn't understand gay issues, he starts whining about how I'm persecuting him. its true, every single straight guy on the planet will respond to that in the exact same way |
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Foelhe
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 165 Likes: 586
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Post by Foelhe on May 28, 2017 3:24:48 GMT
Nice fantasy, but every time I tell a straight guy he doesn't understand gay issues, he starts whining about how I'm persecuting him. its true, every single straight guy on the planet will respond to that in the exact same way Hey, I'm just discussing my own experiences here. I'm sure there are exceptions, just haven't met 'em. In my experience, some straight people love saying they can take criticism on queer issues, but the second you actually criticize 'em they usually just get defensive and whine about how unfair it all is. Not sure why writers would be any different. |
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Post by Steelcan on May 28, 2017 3:34:31 GMT
its true, every single straight guy on the planet will respond to that in the exact same way Hey, I'm just discussing my own experiences here. I'm sure there are exceptions, just haven't met 'em. In my experience, some straight people love saying they can take criticism on queer issues, but the second you actually criticize 'em they usually just get defensive and whine about how unfair it all is. Not sure why writers would be any different. Fun fact, that's called an anecdotal fallacy |
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 28, 2017 3:54:38 GMT
It should be pretty clear that my initial comment was facetious, but the frustration comes from a real place. If I was in a position to hire writers for a project that was specifically producing LGBT content for an LGBT audience, then I would only look at gay writers. I would specifically put out a call for LGBT writers and and ONLY LGBT writers I wouldn't open the opportunity for straight writers to apply in the first place. They already get to write EVERYTHING ELSE. They don't need this opportunity, and gay writers do. I'm not the only one who feels this way. There are organisations specifically geared to helping minority groups break into the arts and media industry, and I have attended such events. So if a talented straight writer applied to your team, showing a genuine desire to learn how to write LBGTQ characters and themes better and use their works to increase LBGTQ visibility and respect, you would still say no? The prospect of true progress is worth less to you than being able to "See how it feels? IT'S OUR TURN NOW!!!" I don't know what you think "true progress" is, but the best way to increase 'LGBT visibility and respect' is to listen to REAL LGBT people, not the fictional creations of straight people. In the event that I am ever in a position to do so, my goal is and will always be to help LGBT authors of Speculative Fiction to find work and/or get published. Straight people have the whole rest of the industry, they can go look there. |
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Post by Steelcan on May 28, 2017 3:56:49 GMT
So if a talented straight writer applied to your team, showing a genuine desire to learn how to write LBGTQ characters and themes better and use their works to increase LBGTQ visibility and respect, you would still say no? The prospect of true progress is worth less to you than being able to "See how it feels? IT'S OUR TURN NOW!!!" I don't know what you think "true progress" is, but the best way to increase 'LGBT visibility and respect' is to listen to REAL LGBT people, not the fictional creations of straight people. In the event that I am ever in a position to do so, my goal is and will always be to help LGBT authors of Speculative Fiction to find work and/or get published. Straight people have the whole rest of the industry, they can go look there. |
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 28, 2017 3:59:55 GMT
Furthermore, let me make it clear that it is not my responsibility to educate heterosexuals about anything, and that I have zero interest in the prospect of performing that emotional labour.
I have my own life to live. If you care so damn much, then Google that shit and leave me be.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 28, 2017 4:01:06 GMT
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 28, 2017 4:08:24 GMT
Hey, I'm just discussing my own experiences here. I'm sure there are exceptions, just haven't met 'em. In my experience, some straight people love saying they can take criticism on queer issues, but the second you actually criticize 'em they usually just get defensive and whine about how unfair it all is. Not sure why writers would be any different. Fun fact, that's called an anecdotal fallacy Fun fact, defensive isn't a good look on you.  |
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Post by Steelcan on May 28, 2017 4:08:57 GMT
Fun fact, that's called an anecdotal fallacy Fun fact, defensive isn't a good look on you. nonsense, I rock defensive head wear like no one else |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 28, 2017 4:12:22 GMT
Given that Ryder can tell Gil that they think Jill is being hurtful with her comments it seems like the writers knew that their plot could be interpreted as controversial but decided to still do it anyways for some baffling reason. I get "Rich house wife who keeps chugging a martini at 11 in the morning despite her recent liver disease diagnosis" vibes from whoever wrote the whole Jill thing, tbh. (Peebee's writer, right?) |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 28, 2017 4:13:48 GMT
Fun fact, defensive isn't a good look on you. nonsense, I rock defensive head wear like no one else So it gets old and rusty by its 10th time in the sun? |
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 28, 2017 4:14:19 GMT
Fun fact, defensive isn't a good look on you. nonsense, I rock defensive head wear like no one else My birthday is in about two months from now, and I want as gift some positive comment of you here on this thread about lgbtq, can you do that for me and for our forbidden love we both share? |
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Post by Steelcan on May 28, 2017 4:14:37 GMT
nonsense, I rock defensive head wear like no one else So it gets old and rusted by its 10th time in the sun? someone doesn't know how to properly care for iron hardware.... |
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Post by kestrel on May 28, 2017 4:14:43 GMT
Given that Ryder can tell Gil that they think Jill is being hurtful with her comments it seems like the writers knew that their plot could be interpreted as controversial but decided to still do it anyways for some baffling reason. I get "Rich house wife who keeps chugging a martini at 11 in the morning despite her recent liver disease diagnosis" vibes from whoever wrote the whole Jill thing, tbh. (Peebee's writer, right?) Please don't insult my future career like that.  |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 28, 2017 4:15:35 GMT
So it gets old and rusted by its 10th time in the sun? someone doesn't know how to properly care for iron hardware.... Nah, got too much of a life to bother with that.  |
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Post by Steelcan on May 28, 2017 4:15:47 GMT
nonsense, I rock defensive head wear like no one else My birthday is in about two months from now, and I want as gift some positive comment of you here on this thread about lgbtq, can you do that for me and for our forbidden love we both share? Not sure I follow but sure? Say something positive about LGBT as a movement? As an identity? A specific person? |
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 28, 2017 4:16:51 GMT
My birthday is in about two months from now, and I want as gift some positive comment of you here on this thread about lgbtq, can you do that for me and for our forbidden love we both share? Not sure I follow but sure? Say something positive about LGBT as a movement? As an identity? A specific person? you know what makes me happy we have a story together love |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 28, 2017 4:18:39 GMT
I get "Rich house wife who keeps chugging a martini at 11 in the morning despite her recent liver disease diagnosis" vibes from whoever wrote the whole Jill thing, tbh. (Peebee's writer, right?) Please don't insult my future career like that. Sorry. -puts my hand in the box of similes I keep next to the dead body- Alright, "creatively bankrupt game dev who's pushing for Oscar bait of the year in some space shooter dating sim?" Oh, wait...  Sorry, ME team? |
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Post by Steelcan on May 28, 2017 4:21:44 GMT
someone doesn't know how to properly care for iron hardware.... Nah, got too much of a life to bother with that. pfft its not that hard, just some proper oil and don't store it in a humid area |
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 28, 2017 4:23:45 GMT
I don't know what you think "true progress" is, but the best way to increase 'LGBT visibility and respect' is to listen to REAL LGBT people, not the fictional creations of straight people. In the event that I am ever in a position to do so, my goal is and will always be to help LGBT authors of Speculative Fiction to find work and/or get published. Straight people have the whole rest of the industry, they can go look there. What exactly is your point with this? That her friend, Truman Capote, who was gay, helped get her foot in the door? That really doesn't have anything to do with anything. They were childhood friends; it's not the same as having the goal of helping LGBT+ authors get a foothold in the industry. |
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Post by Steelcan on May 28, 2017 4:24:44 GMT
What exactly is your point with this? That her friend, Truman Capote, who was gay, helped get her foot in the door? That really doesn't have anything to do with anything. They were childhood friends; it's not the same as having the goal of helping LGBT+ authors get a foothold in the industry. My point is largely aimed at the utterly ridiculous argument that representation can only be properly achieved through the work of people who are the group in question. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 4:27:26 GMT
I don't know what you think "true progress" is, but the best way to increase 'LGBT visibility and respect' is to listen to REAL LGBT people, not the fictional creations of straight people. In the event that I am ever in a position to do so, my goal is and will always be to help LGBT authors of Speculative Fiction to find work and/or get published. Straight people have the whole rest of the industry, they can go look there. Hmm, I've only heard of this novel so I'm not very familiar with it, but pessimistpanda and I are Australians, so that wasn't part of our reading list in our education (at least, it wasn't for me). |
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