byne
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 21:48:22 GMT
All romances should be bi. DA2 had it right. Fuck the people who were triggered by it not being realistic. Its a video game, deal with it.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 21:49:50 GMT
I think that having the plot-relevant romances being bi is a really fantastic idea, really the best compromise and most sensible way to do it since everybody should at least have the option of having more of the important story content that having a plot-relevant LI brings if they wish. I really hope this has occurred to them too, or they are reading this thread... EDIT: I mean, thinking about it more, other than just the (very important) representation aspect, from a RP angle it makes the most sense too since as it stands it sort of forces a "canon protagonist" since the "most important" romances are only allowed for certain PCs. but who would that character be in a game like MEA for example, where none of the romances are important to the plot? Reyes is, so are Jaal and Cora.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 21:51:00 GMT
All romances should be bi. DA2 had it right. Fuck the people who were triggered by it not being realistic. Its a video game, deal with it. thankfully we're likely to never go back to such dark days as DA2
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 30, 2017 21:51:16 GMT
I prefer that all plot-relevent and romancable characters are bi too. You can still have great representation by having plot-relevent but non-romancable characters of various other sexualities. Exactly, that is one of the mistakes that Bioware keep doing over and over again, the only time that we got a plot-relevant character was Anders, and that's it. I'm sure Dorian is going to be important in DA4 but he wont be a LI again. Also, now that I think about it, the 2 bi/2 hetero/2 gay approach is quite dangerous because they tend to do these plot-relevant characters straight. BIOWARE PUT YOUR SHIT TOGETHER WE WANT KISAs and werewolves PLOT-RELEVANT CHARACTERS!!! Depends if we continue as the Inquisitor or not. If we do, I can see Dorian continue to be be a LI. Maybe there would be another gay male romance option as well for those who are starting with DA4 and Dorian can be like the ME2 romances where they are available if you romanced them the previous game.
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byne
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 21:51:17 GMT
but who would that character be in a game like MEA for example, where none of the romances are important to the plot? Reyes is, so are Jaal and Cora. Cora's only role in the plot is reminding you she was an asari commando every 30 seconds.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 21:51:47 GMT
but who would that character be in a game like MEA for example, where none of the romances are important to the plot? Reyes is, so are Jaal and Cora. Reyes is only relevant to one questline on one planet, and he can disappear from it. Jaal and Cora aren't really integral to the plot in the same way that Morrigan in DA:O was or Solas in DA:I.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 30, 2017 21:53:14 GMT
I think that having the plot-relevant romances being bi is a really fantastic idea, really the best compromise and most sensible way to do it since everybody should at least have the option of having more of the important story content that having a plot-relevant LI brings if they wish. I really hope this has occurred to them too, or they are reading this thread... EDIT: I mean, thinking about it more, other than just the (very important) representation aspect, from a RP angle it makes the most sense too since as it stands it sort of forces a "canon protagonist" since the "most important" romances are only allowed for certain PCs. but who would that character be in a game like MEA for example, where none of the romances are important to the plot? You can like Cora or not, but she is the most important female LI as Jaal is the most important male LI. She is the second on command like Cass was and Jaal is an angara so that it speaks for itself. Exactly, that is one of the mistakes that Bioware keep doing over and over again, the only time that we got a plot-relevant character was Anders, and that's it. I'm sure Dorian is going to be important in DA4 but he wont be a LI again. Also, now that I think about it, the 2 bi/2 hetero/2 gay approach is quite dangerous because they tend to do these plot-relevant characters straight. BIOWARE PUT YOUR SHIT TOGETHER WE WANT KISAs and werewolves PLOT-RELEVANT CHARACTERS!!! Depends if we continue as the Inquisitor or not. If we do, I can see Dorian continue to be be a LI. Maybe there would be another gay male romance option as well for those who are starting with DA4 and Dorian can be like the ME2 romances where they are available if you romanced them the previous game. I cant see Quizzy again as protagonist, but of course that could happen, I myself dont want to happen XD I like DA approach with a new pc in every game
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 21:54:33 GMT
but who would that character be in a game like MEA for example, where none of the romances are important to the plot? You can like Cora or not, but she is the most important female LI as Jaal is the most important male LI. She is the second on command like Cass was and Jaal is an angara so that it speaks for itself. The story wouldnt be different in ANY way if Cora didnt exist. She's not important. I dont even dislike her, but lets not pretend she was important.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 21:56:46 GMT
but who would that character be in a game like MEA for example, where none of the romances are important to the plot? You can like Cora or not, but she is the most important female LI as Jaal is the most important male LI. She is the second on command like Cass was and Jaal is an angara so that it speaks for itself. more important than others yes, but their presence or absence wouldn't change the plot in anything but the most superficial way. If Jaal wasn't a squadmate or romance that doesn't change the Angaran fight against the Kett or the Milky Way interference in that. Cora's presence as second in command changes a similar number of things. Nothing happens in the plot BECAUSE of them. Contrast that to Solas or Morrigan, or Anders and Isabella.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 30, 2017 21:58:01 GMT
You can like Cora or not, but she is the most important female LI as Jaal is the most important male LI. She is the second on command like Cass was and Jaal is an angara so that it speaks for itself. The story wouldnt be different in ANY way if Cora didnt exist. She's not important. I dont even dislike her, but lets not pretend she was important. I'm not talking about how the group of characters are important than others, I'm talking about what characters who are LIs are more important to the plot, if you make a comparison with Cass maybe the level of importance is minimum with Cora, but in MEA, Cora and Jaal are the most prominent characters.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 21:59:46 GMT
The story wouldnt be different in ANY way if Cora didnt exist. She's not important. I dont even dislike her, but lets not pretend she was important. I'm not talking about how the core of characters are important, I'm talking about what characters who are LIs are more important to the plot, if you make a comparison with Cass maybe the level of importance is minimum with Cora, but in MEA, Cora and Jaal are the most prominent characters. but how are they important to the plot? I get that they are prominent characters in the game, but they don't have plot relevance even on par with characters in the ME OT (and DA has always been better with this). Its not a slight though, none of the MEA characters have particular importance to the plot.
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 22:00:03 GMT
The story wouldnt be different in ANY way if Cora didnt exist. She's not important. I dont even dislike her, but lets not pretend she was important. I'm not talking about how the group of characters are important than others, I'm talking about what characters who are LIs are more important to the plot, if you make a comparison with Cass maybe the level of importance is minimum with Cora, but in MEA, Cora and Jaal are the most prominent characters. Cassandra declared the Inquisition and can become Divine. Cora is an asari fangirl who does nothing. Her only plot importance would have been being Alec's successor but even that is immediately bypassed with like two lines of dialogue.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 22:00:41 GMT
Reyes is, so are Jaal and Cora. Cora's only role in the plot is reminding you she was an asari commando every 30 seconds. Incorrect. She is a Pathfinder in waiting. If Ryder dies, she inherits from him/her. She is groomed and trained for it. The fact that the game glosses over it is one of the plot flaws.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:01:18 GMT
Cora's only role in the plot is reminding you she was an asari commando every 30 seconds. Incorrect. She is a Pathfinder in waiting. If Ryder dies, she inherits from him/her. She is groomed and trained for it. The fact that the game glosses over it is one of the plot flaws. But that doesn't have relevance to the plot. Nothing comes of her status as 2nd in command.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 30, 2017 22:02:02 GMT
Depends if we continue as the Inquisitor or not. If we do, I can see Dorian continue to be be a LI. Maybe there would be another gay male romance option as well for those who are starting with DA4 and Dorian can be like the ME2 romances where they are available if you romanced them the previous game. I cant see Quizzy again as protagonist, but of course that could happen, I myself dont want to happen XD I like DA approach with a new pc in every game Normally I wouldn't mind them doing that(I prefer multiple games with a protagonist over a new one each time but if their story is finished in that game I'm fine with it), but with how Trespasser happened going with a new PC would be a bad idea compared to using the Inquisitor again. I can see them using the Inquisitor again, and in a few ways they made it pretty easy to integrate like for example due to having to learn how to fight with a prosthetic limb they revert back to Level 1.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 22:02:18 GMT
You can like Cora or not, but she is the most important female LI as Jaal is the most important male LI. She is the second on command like Cass was and Jaal is an angara so that it speaks for itself. more important than others yes, but their presence or absence wouldn't change the plot in anything but the most superficial way. If Jaal wasn't a squadmate or romance that doesn't change the Angaran fight against the Kett or the Milky Way interference in that. Cora's presence as second in command changes a similar number of things. Nothing happens in the plot BECAUSE of them. Contrast that to Solas or Morrigan, or Anders and Isabella. I've played DA without recruiting either Morrigan or Isabela. It did not change anything.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on May 30, 2017 22:02:33 GMT
You can like Cora or not, but she is the most important female LI as Jaal is the most important male LI. She is the second on command like Cass was and Jaal is an angara so that it speaks for itself. more important than others yes, but their presence or absence wouldn't change the plot in anything but the most superficial way. If Jaal wasn't a squadmate or romance that doesn't change the Angaran fight against the Kett or the Milky Way interference in that. Cora's presence as second in command changes a similar number of things. Nothing happens in the plot BECAUSE of them. Contrast that to Solas or Morrigan, or Anders and Isabella. Besides being involed with finding the asari ark Cora doesn't have anywhere near the amount of cutscene appearances as Cassandra. MEA can tell me that she's my second in command all they want but ultimately the game itself doesn't give her enough presence to actually feel like she is. Jaal is slightly more important with the Roekkar but no where near Solas level. Is Isabella even all that important? In my first run of DA2 I completely missed her and the game and the Qunari plot just progressed without her.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 30, 2017 22:02:35 GMT
I'm not talking about how the group of characters are important than others, I'm talking about what characters who are LIs are more important to the plot, if you make a comparison with Cass maybe the level of importance is minimum with Cora, but in MEA, Cora and Jaal are the most prominent characters. Cassandra declared the Inquisition and can become Divine. Cora is an asari fangirl who does nothing. Her only plot importance would have been being Alec's successor but even that is immediately bypassed with like two lines of dialogue. Please read me well, I'm not talking about that :DD: most important LIs in MEA? Cora and Jaal, that's a no-brainer.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 22:03:58 GMT
Incorrect. She is a Pathfinder in waiting. If Ryder dies, she inherits from him/her. She is groomed and trained for it. The fact that the game glosses over it is one of the plot flaws. But that doesn't have relevance to the plot. Nothing comes of her status as 2nd in command. Not yet, but you have to have one, and that's her position. She is introduced by the plot, and if she dies, she needs to be replaced in that position. Any other person on the crew dies, it's just an empty room.
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 22:04:12 GMT
Cassandra declared the Inquisition and can become Divine. Cora is an asari fangirl who does nothing. Her only plot importance would have been being Alec's successor but even that is immediately bypassed with like two lines of dialogue. Please read me well, I'm not talking about that :DD: most important LIs in MEA? Cora and Jaal, that's a no-brainer. Suvi figures out how to find Meridian. She has the most plot importance of any of them based on that alone. I'd also say Peebee is way more important than Cora.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:04:34 GMT
more important than others yes, but their presence or absence wouldn't change the plot in anything but the most superficial way. If Jaal wasn't a squadmate or romance that doesn't change the Angaran fight against the Kett or the Milky Way interference in that. Cora's presence as second in command changes a similar number of things. Nothing happens in the plot BECAUSE of them. Contrast that to Solas or Morrigan, or Anders and Isabella. I've played DA without recruiting either Morrigan or Isabela. It did not change anything. You can not recruit Morrigan in DA:O? Not to be blunt, but I don't believe that. I know you cna drive her off later, but I think you have to take her at least to Lothering. As for Isabela, she's still plot relevant because of her involvement with the theft of the Tome of Koslun.
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Post by MediocreOgre on May 30, 2017 22:05:08 GMT
more important than others yes, but their presence or absence wouldn't change the plot in anything but the most superficial way. If Jaal wasn't a squadmate or romance that doesn't change the Angaran fight against the Kett or the Milky Way interference in that. Cora's presence as second in command changes a similar number of things. Nothing happens in the plot BECAUSE of them. Contrast that to Solas or Morrigan, or Anders and Isabella. Besides being involed with finding the asari ark Cora doesn't have anywhere near the amount of cutscene appearances as Cassandra. MEA can tell me that she's my second in command all they want but ultimately the game itself doesn't give her enough presence to actually feel like she is. Jaal is slightly more important with the Roekkar but no where near Solas level. Is Isabella even all that important? In my first run of DA2 I completely missed her and the game and the Qunari plot just progressed without her. Isabella is kind of plot important because she is the entire reason the Qunari are in Kirkwall and her character arc gets resolved when a major plot point (the reason the Qunari in Kirkwall) gets resolved.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:05:12 GMT
But that doesn't have relevance to the plot. Nothing comes of her status as 2nd in command. Not yet, but you have to have one, and that's her position. She is introduced by the plot, and if she dies, she needs to be replaced in that position. Any other person on the crew dies, it's just an empty room. and if Kallo dies we need to find another pilot, but that doesn't mean he's plot relevant because of his status as pilot.
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Post by Dirk on May 30, 2017 22:06:11 GMT
I think Cora is not as plot important as Jaal. Hell, Jaal is not that plot-important than, say, Solas or Liara. But both Cora and Jaal are more important than Gil, imo.
The bigger problem in ME:A is more of the amount of the content, rather than of being plot important. Gil being a non-squad mate is already at disadvantage, and then there is Jill stuff. And of course the biggest problem is just inequality in the number of LIs.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 30, 2017 22:06:28 GMT
The problem is that they made SAM do everything, thus removed the importance of the team. The game could literally just be Ryder and SAM and nothing would change.
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