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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:08:03 GMT
I think Cora is not as plot important as Jaal. Hell, Jaal is not that plot-important than, say, Solas or Liara. But both Cora and Jaal are more important than Gil, imo. The bigger problem in ME:A is more of the amount of the content, rather than of being plot important. Gil being a non-squad mate is already at disadvantage, and then there is Jill stuff. And of course the biggest problem is just inequality in the number of LIs. I wonder how much of that is due to how extremely tangential the characters are to the plot.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 30, 2017 22:10:15 GMT
Please read me well, I'm not talking about that :DD: most important LIs in MEA? Cora and Jaal, that's a no-brainer. Suvi figures out how to find Meridian. She has the most plot importance of any of them based on that alone. I'd also say Peebee is way more important than Cora. Suvi has not content = not important LI... LI LOVE INTEREST LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm talking abour romances. Samantha helps you to find Cerberus's lair too, and that doesnt make her more important LI and to the plot. Varric should have been LI if we are following that reasoning since he was in two games and had importance realising Corypheus. Look, I know you are a Vetra fanboy, I like her better than Cora too, but Cora is more important than Suvi and her together XD
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 30, 2017 22:10:19 GMT
I think Cora is not as plot important as Jaal. Hell, Jaal is not that plot-important than, say, Solas or Liara. But both Cora and Jaal are more important than Gil, imo. The bigger problem in ME:A is more of the amount of the content, rather than of being plot important. Gil being a non-squad mate is already at disadvantage, and then there is Jill stuff. And of course the biggest problem is just inequality in the number of LIs. I wonder how much of that is due to how extremely tangential the characters are to the plot. I find it ironic how the game that has everyone be mandatory has them the least involved in the plot.
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Post by MediocreOgre on May 30, 2017 22:12:52 GMT
The problem is that they made SAM do everything, thus removed the importance of the team. The game could literally just be Ryder and SAM and nothing would change. truth. The slogan for ME:A's character writing style could be "why have character development when you can have an AI?"
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 22:14:49 GMT
Suvi figures out how to find Meridian. She has the most plot importance of any of them based on that alone. I'd also say Peebee is way more important than Cora. Suvi has not content = not important LI... LI LOVE INTEREST LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm talking abour romances. Samantha helps you to find Cerberus's lair too, and that doesnt make her more important LI and to the plot. Varric should have been LI if we are following that reasoning since he was in two games and had importance realising Corypheus. Look, I know you are a Vetra fanboy, I like her better than Cora too, but Cora is more important than Suvi and her together XD I... really think I just dont understand the point you are trying to make, then. Are you saying the romance itself should somehow be important to the plot? Cora's only importance at all is that she's second in command, but as we've seen, that apparently doesnt mean shit and I can just transfer pathfinder authority to anyone with the implant. I could make Peebee the human pathfinder and no one could stop me.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:14:58 GMT
I wonder how much of that is due to how extremely tangential the characters are to the plot. I find it ironic how the game that has everyone be mandatory has them be so tangential to the plot. indeed, gone are the days of ME2 "We need this Salarian scientist because he might know how to counter the collector seeker swarms, and is currently fighting a Collector engineered plague" hell even Zaeed has a solid reason to be there
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Post by Dirk on May 30, 2017 22:16:10 GMT
I prefer that all plot-relevent and romancable characters are bi too. You can still have great representation by having plot-relevent but non-romancable characters of various other sexualities. Exactly, that is one of the mistakes that Bioware keep doing over and over again, the only time that we got a plot-relevant character was Anders, and that's it. I'm sure Dorian is going to be important in DA4 but he wont be a LI again. Also, now that I think about it, the 2 bi/2 hetero/2 gay approach is quite dangerous because they tend to do these plot-relevant characters straight. BIOWARE PUT YOUR SHIT TOGETHER WE WANT KISAs and werewolves PLOT-RELEVANT CHARACTERS!!! You know, I just realize that we never have a super plot-important gay male character, and now I want to see one. I am quite excited by the prospect of having Dorian play an important role in DA4, even he is not romancable. But yeah, Alistar, Morrigan, Solas, Cassandra, and Jaal being straight was a mistake.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:16:17 GMT
Suvi figures out how to find Meridian. She has the most plot importance of any of them based on that alone. I'd also say Peebee is way more important than Cora. Suvi has not content = not important LI... LI LOVE INTEREST LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm talking abour romances. Samantha helps you to find Cerberus's lair too, and that doesnt make her more important LI and to the plot. Varric should have been LI if we are following that reasoning since he was in two games and had importance realising Corypheus. Look, I know you are a Vetra fanboy, I like her better than Cora too, but Cora is more important than Suvi and her together XD How? besides her position which can be filled by someone else is she relevant to the plot?
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 22:16:58 GMT
I find it ironic how the game that has everyone be mandatory has them be so tangential to the plot. indeed, gone are the days of ME2 "We need this Salarian scientist because he might know how to counter the collector seeker swarms, and is currently fighting a Collector engineered plague" hell even Zaeed has a solid reason to be there "He's a better than average mercenary" is not a solid reason.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:17:56 GMT
Exactly, that is one of the mistakes that Bioware keep doing over and over again, the only time that we got a plot-relevant character was Anders, and that's it. I'm sure Dorian is going to be important in DA4 but he wont be a LI again. Also, now that I think about it, the 2 bi/2 hetero/2 gay approach is quite dangerous because they tend to do these plot-relevant characters straight. BIOWARE PUT YOUR SHIT TOGETHER WE WANT KISAs and werewolves PLOT-RELEVANT CHARACTERS!!! You know, I just realize that we never have a super plot-important gay male character, and now I want to see one. I am quite excited by the prospect of having Dorian play an important role in DA4, even he is not romancable. But yeah, Alistar, Morrigan, Solas, Cassandra, and Jaal being straight was a mistake. Well super plot important and romanceable? Yeah I think you're right there, that's something that I think should happen. I don't think it will be Dorian because he's got two possibilities for romance already
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 30, 2017 22:18:33 GMT
I find it ironic how the game that has everyone be mandatory has them be so tangential to the plot. indeed, gone are the days of ME2 "We need this Salarian scientist because he might know how to counter the collector seeker swarms, and is currently fighting a Collector engineered plague" hell even Zaeed has a solid reason to be there Yeah, in the older ME games and DA games even the optional squadmates added a lot to the plot, in some cases more than some of the mandatory ones.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:18:37 GMT
indeed, gone are the days of ME2 "We need this Salarian scientist because he might know how to counter the collector seeker swarms, and is currently fighting a Collector engineered plague" hell even Zaeed has a solid reason to be there "He's a better than average mercenary" is not a solid reason. That's why he was targeted as a recruit, not why he signed on
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 22:19:38 GMT
"He's a better than average mercenary" is not a solid reason. That's why he was targeted as a recruit, not why he signed on "I signed on because there was lots of money offered and also I want to kill one guy" is also not a solid reason
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:22:59 GMT
That's why he was targeted as a recruit, not why he signed on "I signed on because there was lots of money offered and also I want to kill one guy" is also not a solid reason its better than Drack and Vetra's reasons
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 22:25:29 GMT
"I signed on because there was lots of money offered and also I want to kill one guy" is also not a solid reason its better than Drack and Vetra's reasons Fuck no it isnt. Drack wants to secure a future for his people and get revenge on the one who betrayed them. Its not just personal with him. Vetra wants to make Andromeda safe for everyone (but mostly her sister) to live in. Its also not some personal vendetta or greed driven reason with her.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on May 30, 2017 22:25:42 GMT
Suvi has not content = not important LI... LI LOVE INTEREST LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm talking abour romances. Samantha helps you to find Cerberus's lair too, and that doesnt make her more important LI and to the plot. Varric should have been LI if we are following that reasoning since he was in two games and had importance realising Corypheus. Look, I know you are a Vetra fanboy, I like her better than Cora too, but Cora is more important than Suvi and her together XD I... really think I just dont understand the point you are trying to make, then. Are you saying the romance itself should somehow be important to the plot? Cora's only importance at all is that she's second in command, but as we've seen, that apparently doesnt mean shit and I can just transfer pathfinder authority to anyone with the implant. I could make Peebee the human pathfinder and no one could stop me. Suvi has not content = not important LI... LI LOVE INTEREST LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm talking abour romances. Samantha helps you to find Cerberus's lair too, and that doesnt make her more important LI and to the plot. Varric should have been LI if we are following that reasoning since he was in two games and had importance realising Corypheus. Look, I know you are a Vetra fanboy, I like her better than Cora too, but Cora is more important than Suvi and her together XD How? besides her position which can be filled by someone else is she relevant to the plot? Nevermind I cant make you see that Cora is a more important LI than Vetra or Suvi, either with her content or plot importance. Maybe for you the result in that execution went wrong, but it's a no-brainer that she is the female character with more weight in her back as LI. Carry on guys, I finished and my face hurts XD Exactly, that is one of the mistakes that Bioware keep doing over and over again, the only time that we got a plot-relevant character was Anders, and that's it. I'm sure Dorian is going to be important in DA4 but he wont be a LI again. Also, now that I think about it, the 2 bi/2 hetero/2 gay approach is quite dangerous because they tend to do these plot-relevant characters straight. BIOWARE PUT YOUR SHIT TOGETHER WE WANT KISAs and werewolves PLOT-RELEVANT CHARACTERS!!! You know, I just realize that we never have a super plot-important gay male character, and now I want to see one. I am quite excited by the prospect of having Dorian play an important role in DA4, even he is not romancable. But yeah, Alistar, Morrigan, Solas, Cassandra, and Jaal being straight was a mistake.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:27:28 GMT
How? besides her position which can be filled by someone else is she relevant to the plot? Nevermind I cant make you see that Cora is a more important LI than Vetra or Suvi, either with her content or plot importance. Maybe for you the result in that execution went wrong, but it's a no-brainer that she is the female character with more weight in her back as LI. Carry on guys, I finished and my face hurts XD You're not giving me anything to work with though. Suvi is useful for getting to Meridian, what similar plot event does Cora contribute to? Her status as 2nd in command is not relevant to this. Miranda was 2nd in command and she wasn't plot relevant either.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 22:27:49 GMT
Not yet, but you have to have one, and that's her position. She is introduced by the plot, and if she dies, she needs to be replaced in that position. Any other person on the crew dies, it's just an empty room. and if Kallo dies we need to find another pilot, but that doesn't mean he's plot relevant because of his status as pilot. No the same way as Cora is, because many a pilot can fly the Tempest (even Gil volunteers, lol). Cora is introduced into the plot as a Pathfinder #2 & hand-picked by dad-Ryder. Jaal is what allows the Angara plot to move forward. Finally, Reyes has a planetary story rotating around him, as well as the whole Exile faction. I would have strongly preferred if Cora, Jaal, Reyes and Vetra (or PeeBee, but I feel that Vetra is simply fresher than another Asari) had their ties to the plot augmented, and their romances made bisexual and longer, at the expense of losing Suvi and Gil's romantic arcs. EDIT: I understand that it would not find traction with everyone, and a lot of folks prefer DA:I/ME:A approach, but I would have liked that.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:28:59 GMT
its better than Drack and Vetra's reasons Fuck no it isnt. Drack wants to secure a future for his people and get revenge on the one who betrayed them. Its not just personal with him. Vetra wants to make Andromeda safe for everyone (but mostly her sister) to live in. Its also not some personal vendetta or greed driven reason with her. You're right I did miss the mark. Its not that they don't have motivation, its that all the ME squadmates have the same motivation. Which is boring.
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Post by byne on May 30, 2017 22:29:11 GMT
Nevermind I cant make you see that Cora is a more important LI than Vetra or Suvi, either with her content or plot importance. Maybe for you the result in that execution went wrong, but it's a no-brainer that she is the female character with more weight in her back as LI. Carry on guys, I finished and my face hurts XD No, I'll freely admit she's more important as far as amount of content goes, because its just factually correct she has more scenes than any other romance. Doesnt make her plot important though.
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:30:18 GMT
and if Kallo dies we need to find another pilot, but that doesn't mean he's plot relevant because of his status as pilot. No the same way as Cora is, because many a pilot can fly the Tempest (even Gil volunteers, lol). Cora is introduced into the plot as a Pathfinder #2 & hand-picked by dad-Ryder. Jaal is what allows the Angara plot to move forward. Finally, Reyes has a planetary story rotating around him, as well as the whole Exile faction. I would have strongly preferred if Cora, Jaal, Reyes and Vetra (or PeeBee, but I feel that Vetra is simply fresher than another Asari) had their ties to the plot augmented, and their romances made bisexual and longer, at the expense of losing Suvi and Gil's romantic arcs. But she's sidelined the second her status as 2nd in command comes up and with hardly a protest and it never comes up in the course of the main plot again. Jaal is part of the Angara plot, but how would it be different if he wasn't there?
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 22:32:58 GMT
No the same way as Cora is, because many a pilot can fly the Tempest (even Gil volunteers, lol). Cora is introduced into the plot as a Pathfinder #2 & hand-picked by dad-Ryder. Jaal is what allows the Angara plot to move forward. Finally, Reyes has a planetary story rotating around him, as well as the whole Exile faction. I would have strongly preferred if Cora, Jaal, Reyes and Vetra (or PeeBee, but I feel that Vetra is simply fresher than another Asari) had their ties to the plot augmented, and their romances made bisexual and longer, at the expense of losing Suvi and Gil's romantic arcs. But she's sidelined the second her status as 2nd in command comes up and with hardly a protest and it never comes up in the course of the main plot again. Jaal is part of the Angara plot, but how would it be different if he wasn't there? And that's why part of my wishful thinking would have been further strengthening the plot ties of the four bisexual characters. As in "had their ties to the plot augmented".
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Post by Steelcan on May 30, 2017 22:34:42 GMT
But she's sidelined the second her status as 2nd in command comes up and with hardly a protest and it never comes up in the course of the main plot again. Jaal is part of the Angara plot, but how would it be different if he wasn't there? And that's why part of my wishful thinking would have been further strengthening the plot ties of the four bisexual characters. As in "had their ties to the plot augmented". And what I'm saying is that their own lack of connection to the main plot is mirrored in the other romances, with the sole exception of Suvi's little bit about getting to Meridian.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 22:35:50 GMT
No the same way as Cora is, because many a pilot can fly the Tempest (even Gil volunteers, lol). Cora is introduced into the plot as a Pathfinder #2 & hand-picked by dad-Ryder. Jaal is what allows the Angara plot to move forward. Finally, Reyes has a planetary story rotating around him, as well as the whole Exile faction. I would have strongly preferred if Cora, Jaal, Reyes and Vetra (or PeeBee, but I feel that Vetra is simply fresher than another Asari) had their ties to the plot augmented, and their romances made bisexual and longer, at the expense of losing Suvi and Gil's romantic arcs. But she's sidelined the second her status as 2nd in command comes up and with hardly a protest and it never comes up in the course of the main plot again. Jaal is part of the Angara plot, but how would it be different if he wasn't there? In case of Jaal, his involvement is actually stronger than Isabela you have mentioned before. Without Jaal's volounteering to take Ryder under his observation on either Voeld or Havarl, there would be no way Ryder would be admitted to Aya's Vault and the plot cannot proceed to Meridian. The best Nexus could do is get into a war with Angara for what resources there are left with Scourge.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 22:38:26 GMT
And that's why part of my wishful thinking would have been further strengthening the plot ties of the four bisexual characters. As in "had their ties to the plot augmented". And what I'm saying is that their own lack of connection to the main plot is mirrored in the other romances, with the sole exception of Suvi's little bit about getting to Meridian. I agree to disagree. We've reached the number of repetitions of the same points that makes further repetition redundant and unproductive. Cheers.
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