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Post by Steelcan on Jun 6, 2017 19:23:21 GMT
Hey Steelcan , notice how you ignored the people who actually answered you earnestly ( gaycaravaggio and JadePrince ) because you'd rather take potshots at this thread? That's why no one wants to engage with you. You're not posting in good faith and it's obvious. I'm not gay or bi, but I also explained to him what I witnessed regarding the baiting of the community in March, and was ignored completely. I read your post
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Post by shechinah on Jun 6, 2017 19:23:39 GMT
From what I've heard, Sera also had cut content with a male Inquisitor. I remember that too. That's also why I'm staying positive about Jaal. The longer it's taken them to finish the patch, the more chances it was due to adding scenes and getting the actors to record the lines. If they are secretly working on the DLC (hinted by Cora's voice actress), having them do those lines would not waste any time or that much more money. Eh, I'm still not fond of the idea of turning Jaal bisexual. Pre-release, I'd have been happy with him being bisexual but post-game and as a response to the unhappiness about the gay option, it'd feel too close to the Ashley Precedence: changing a character for meta reasons regardless of how well it fits with their established characterization. If there is DLC that has romance content, I'd rather it be about expanding the current romances rather than changing them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:24:26 GMT
You're better off with the salty lgbt in here than you are with people like biofan.
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Post by Dirk on Jun 6, 2017 19:24:49 GMT
Solas, Cullen, Thane and now Jaal. There has been an unfortunate pattern of cutting the gay side of intended bi male romances for years. and ashley, tali and jack too :/ I mean yeah, we get more because straight gamers can wank one while thinking about how "hot lesbians" or "hot bisexual chicks" (sry, just had a bit of puke in my mouth) re totally fine and we are cool.. like.. its sad that you get so little that you take even some malegazey fetishistic shit that says "we include you because we know our true intended audience can imagine you fucking each other for their enjoyment and you don't threaten their cis-het-masculine identity " with graces because its still better than half forgotten stuff that began in good intentions but then got cut and written to death because, well we cant have anything vaguely threatening or uncomfortable for the assumed default player, the cis-hetero-homophobic brogamer.... All of these characters should have been bi (I am going to add Alistair, Morrigan, Miranda, and yes, even Jacob too). Indeed some of the writing in ME:A seems to be intended for what we call dudebros. One example is Gil with the duty of procreate, as if there had to be a justification for gay people to exist. Another example is how your male Ryder automatically touch Peebee's thigh when she lands on top of him. This also appears during the marketing before the release. They went on and on about the stupid "Pretty Good Banging" which then turned out that m/m romance is trash. They released romance information for straight romance but while gay players were told to find our romance out ourselves. And there were also so many instances of queer baiting as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:25:58 GMT
I remember that too. That's also why I'm staying positive about Jaal. The longer it's taken them to finish the patch, the more chances it was due to adding scenes and getting the actors to record the lines. If they are secretly working on the DLC (hinted by Cora's voice actress), having them do those lines would not waste any time or that much more money. Eh, I'm still not fond of the idea of turning Jaal bisexual. Pre-release, I'd have been happy with him being bisexual but post-game and as a response to the unhappiness about the gay option, it'd feel too close to the Ashley Precedence: changing a character for meta reasons regardless of how well it fits with their established characterization. If there is DLC that has romance content, I'd rather it be about the romances that are already present rather than changing existing ones. I agree about that. If he's not already bi, changing him feels cheap to the community and they are already being treated the worst, but at least they get to complete the achievement and get a m/m squadmate romance with an alien. Kaidan's change came 2 games later, but this is something they promised to fix now, so patching is the only way to do it at the moment. Steelcan I hope it helped you understand a bit better then.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 6, 2017 19:26:45 GMT
If the patch outcome goes badly, I'll change my username to 'SaltyJockey' out of solidarity... Hope the patch does make folks happy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:28:41 GMT
If the patch outcome goes badly, I'll change my username to 'SaltyJockey' out of solidarity... Hope the patch does make folks happy. I was going to say the same thing earlier. If Jaal's not bi I will change my name to Lady Salty for the same reason. I'm sticking with my 85% belief it'll be alright until that day comes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:28:53 GMT
and ashley, tali and jack too :/ I mean yeah, we get more because straight gamers can wank one while thinking about how "hot lesbians" or "hot bisexual chicks" (sry, just had a bit of puke in my mouth) re totally fine and we are cool.. like.. its sad that you get so little that you take even some malegazey fetishistic shit that says "we include you because we know our true intended audience can imagine you fucking each other for their enjoyment and you don't threaten their cis-het-masculine identity " with graces because its still better than half forgotten stuff that began in good intentions but then got cut and written to death because, well we cant have anything vaguely threatening or uncomfortable for the assumed default player, the cis-hetero-homophobic brogamer.... All of these characters should have been bi (I am going to add Alistair, Morrigan, Miranda, and yes, even Jacob too). Indeed some of the writing in ME:A seems to be intended for what we call dudebros. One example is Gil with the duty of procreate, as if there had to be a justification for gay people to exist. Another example is how your male Ryder automatically touch Peebee's thigh when she lands on top of him. This also appears during the marketing before the release. They went on and on about the stupid "Pretty Good Banging" which then turned out that m/m romance is trash. They released romance information for straight romance but while gay players were told to find our romance out ourselves. And there were also so many instances of queer baiting as well. Holding rapeebee's legs is so wrong. She should have been shot there and then. I can only headcanon scott was getting ready to push her off but waited until his squadmates guns were lowered to avoid an accident.
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Post by Dirk on Jun 6, 2017 19:30:25 GMT
I remember that too. That's also why I'm staying positive about Jaal. The longer it's taken them to finish the patch, the more chances it was due to adding scenes and getting the actors to record the lines. If they are secretly working on the DLC (hinted by Cora's voice actress), having them do those lines would not waste any time or that much more money. Eh, I'm still not fond of the idea of turning Jaal bisexual. Pre-release, I'd have been happy with him being bisexual but post-game and as a response to the unhappiness about the gay option, it'd feel too close to the Ashley Precedence: changing a character for meta reasons regardless of how well it fits with their established characterization. If there is DLC that has romance content, I'd rather it be about expanding the current romances rather than changing them. So what would you propose to fix this current shitty situation of romance options of gay players? There are only 2 m/m options, none of which are squad mate romance. Making Jaal bi would solve this problem and it is the easiest way.
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Post by Dirk on Jun 6, 2017 19:36:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:37:14 GMT
TOLD YOU!!!
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 6, 2017 19:39:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:39:17 GMT
Wow, OMG! Haha, BW you did surprise me!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:39:31 GMT
OMG and we can change our look on the Tempest now!!!
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Post by ariatloak on Jun 6, 2017 19:39:43 GMT
Congratulations, guys! I fully admit i NEVER thought this was a remote possibility. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Jaal really isn't my bag myself - would much rather if Liam was bi - but I'm so thrilled that you're getting the squadmate romance you deserve.
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Jun 6, 2017 19:40:46 GMT
Eh, I'm still not fond of the idea of turning Jaal bisexual. Pre-release, I'd have been happy with him being bisexual but post-game and as a response to the unhappiness about the gay option, it'd feel too close to the Ashley Precedence: changing a character for meta reasons regardless of how well it fits with their established characterization. If there is DLC that has romance content, I'd rather it be about expanding the current romances rather than changing them. So what would you propose to fix this current shitty situation of romance options of gay players? There are only 2 m/m options, none of which are squad mate romance. Making Jaal bi would solve this problem and it is the easiest way. Yeah, maybe the quote unquote "ideal" solution is to introduce new characters, but that is NOT. AN. OPTION. in this scenario - new characters would be in a reduced position at best, like any DLC character who was a romance option would only exist within that DLC content, AND it would mean paying extra for a feature that SHOULD have been in the game to begin with. This is not a viable option, because it literally means that gay players have to pay more to get the same level of content that straight players got at launch. Jaal does not state that he is only attracted to women, he doesn't say 'guys aren't my thing,' BroRyder doesn't even get to flirt with him. It wouldn't be 'turning' him bi, it would be allowing him to express it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:40:52 GMT
"Our writing, editing, and animation teams worked together to ensure this change made sense for Jaal’s character, and the result is a relationship we hope feels as fulfilling and memorable for Scott as it does for Sara."
Now that's interesting!
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Post by Salty Drell on Jun 6, 2017 19:40:55 GMT
So, prayer corner dear, lets make one. Fuck yes.
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Post by Steelcan on Jun 6, 2017 19:41:17 GMT
I don't think this is the right decision, but I hope you people who did want it are happy with it
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Post by Dirk on Jun 6, 2017 19:41:26 GMT
Well I'll have to say this: Thank you, Bioware, for listening to us and making the right decision this time.
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Post by Salty Drell on Jun 6, 2017 19:41:50 GMT
"Our writing, editing, and animation teams worked together to ensure this change made sense for Jaal’s character, and the result is a relationship we hope feels as fulfilling and memorable for Scott as it does for Sara." Now that's interesting! So maybe not a copy paste?
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Post by janalilith on Jun 6, 2017 19:42:00 GMT
I am at work and I am screaming now. Is it true?!!!!!!!!!! Please say YES!
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Jun 6, 2017 19:42:29 GMT
Wow. I am surprised.
Not surprised that it's not saying anything about content with Gil being fixed and improved, but surprised that Jaal being bi actually happened.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 6, 2017 19:44:01 GMT
I see. Thanks! I've romanced both Jaal and Reyes and was planning Vetra next, so that's how I'll get it I'd assume. Also... if that achievement was made after the game's romances were written, they had to have thought out a 3rd gay romance option. Otherwise it makes no sense. Something's not adding up in my opinion. I think it just didn't occur to them that people would want to do specifically 3 m/m relationships versus just doing m/f, f/f or non-preferential playthroughs. DAO had those separate romance achievements that meant you had to play both genders to get them all, so it's not unprecendented to encourage the player to split them up that way. I suspect they didn't do the math to realize that all the other player-gender/romance-gender pairing preferences could get the achievement without re-rolling. DA2 had One Romance Achievement to Rule Them All, as does DAI; both of these just require that you complete a single romance. The issue with this particular one is that m/m is the only one that can't be completed with the available options. If it was still three, but everyone only had two options, necessitating that everyone play a romance outside of their preference to obtain the achievement, that would be a different story, but that's not the case. I don't particularly care about achievements when I'm required to do things I don't want to do, like romance a certain person, or something drastic like side with the templars in DA2 (there is one for siding with them five times; I did it once to see, and never again). I have a bunch from DAO left undone because I don't care to make those choices. But this instance is just another example of how they didn't consider m/m players at all, how they're not important. I don't think the achievement itself is a big deal, but what it means is a big deal. [edit] Grats to Jaal-mancers.
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Post by shechinah on Jun 6, 2017 19:44:02 GMT
So what would you propose to fix this current shitty situation of romance options of gay players? There are only 2 m/m options, none of which are squad mate romance. Making Jaal bi would solve this problem and it is the easiest way. Maybe so but I would still dislike the change. With Dragon Age: Inquisition, there were players who were upset that there was no elven romance for male Inquisitors and were asking for Sera to be bi. There were, at least, one who pointed to her cut content as being a reason for why she should and could. I don't want a strong enough precedence to be set where something like that may very well happen. The more times a character is changed for those reasons, the more times an example is set that can be pointed back to as to why this is fine and dandy to do for those reasons. That's why I don't want characters' appearance to be changed for meta reasons, that's why I don't want characterization to be changed for meta reasons and that's why I don't want character's sexualities to be changed for meta reasons.
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