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Post by palinopsia on Jun 7, 2017 13:37:49 GMT
What I find interesting is that they didn't at all mention in the patch notes that Jaal was supposed to be bi all along. I mean, the code is still there. There are no gender checks. But I feel like they would've used that as an excuse to decrease the backlash (oh Jaal is bi now because he was actually supposed to be bi all along! it was cut because we didn't have enough time, so we're not actually "changing" the character) from offended dudebros, yet they still didn't. Maybe we were interpreting that code wrong all along? in which case, we can't use the "Jaal was supposed to be bi" argument either... idk We'll have to wait until the patch is released to see, but I think the new dialogue and animations are mainly cleaning up what was already in the game to make it flow better and prevent the copy/paste complaints that the bi male romances frequently get. Yeah that's another thing... Like, kudos to Bioware for actually listening to their fans and acknowledging that they fucked up, and doing something about it - they could've just ignored it. It would've been easier to ignore it. I really appreciate that and after everything, I would say it is a step in the right direction (even though all this could easily have been prevented). However... I'm not gonna lie, I have lost all faith in Bioware so this is a bit pessimistic of me perhaps, but I fully expect them to somehow fuck up the Scott/Jaal romance as well. Idk how they would, but I'm sure they would find a way. Maybe the new animations are going to suck, or the new dialogue will be even more problematic (let's not forget that they still have the same "it has to make sense for the character" mindset) or it actually will be an exact copy/paste of the Sara romance. Either way I wouldn't really hold out much hope. All we have is the promise of "bi Jaal" and that's it. Two months ago all we had was a promise of "Mass Effect: Andromeda" and look how that turned out. Idk about you guys but I honestly cannot assume anything better than "it's going to completely suck" about anything coming from Bioware at this point. But like I said... Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic. idk |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:39:48 GMT
We'll have to wait until the patch is released to see, but I think the new dialogue and animations are mainly cleaning up what was already in the game to make it flow better and prevent the copy/paste complaints that the bi male romances frequently get. Yeah that's another thing... Like, kudos to Bioware for actually listening to their fans and acknowledging that they fucked up, and doing something about it - they could've just ignored it. It would've been easier to ignore it. I really appreciate that. However... I'm not gonna lie, I have lost all faith in Bioware so this is a bit pessimistic of me perhaps, but I fully expect them to somehow fuck up the Scott/Jaal romance as well. Idk how they would, but I'm sure they would find a way. Maybe the new animations are going to suck, or the new dialogue will be even more problematic (let's not forget that they still have the same "it has to make sense for the character" mindset) or it actually will be an exact copy/paste of the Sara romance. Either way I wouldn't really hold out much hope. All we have is the promise of "bi Jaal" and that's it. Two months ago all we had was a promise of "Mass Effect: Andromeda" and look how that turned out. Idk about you guys but I honestly cannot assume anything better than "it's going to completely suck" about anything coming from Bioware at this point. But like I said... Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic. idk They talked to the LGBTQ community (both outside and in their company) and learned how to handle this. I'm going to have faith for now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:40:21 GMT
<snip>
And, well, lately the world has been a little disappointing (but I won't get into politics or personal life here), so this news lifted my spirits. Hell, it gave me hope. Maybe that's stupid. Maybe that's shallow. But that's just how I see it.This point is the most salient for me. I'm up front about having no interest in Jaal at all, so from a selfish perspective, this isn't a win for me. It's a character who I am not at all interested in and I don't like the idea in general of changing a character's sexuality in a patch. I'm super disappointed that Gil and Reyes will continue to be treated like the afterthoughts that we all knew that they actually were and that sucks for their fans. BUT......victories of any kind are really few and far between lately. The state of the world is terribly depressing for LGBT people. And there are myriad reasons (such as Jaal originally being intended as bisexual, the lack of m/m content in general, the second-class nature that gay male ME fans have been treated in the series, etc.) for why I can support this particular change given the context. So while I'm not personally happy at all, I don't think it's fair to shit all over this victory since, god knows, we all need to win just a little every now and again. So I'll take it. Hell, maybe I'll even do a Jaal romance just to finally get my gaylien romance that I've always wanted. Even if it's with a monocle wearing, poncho clad, squid-cat.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:42:28 GMT
Jaal says hi! |
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Post by Steelcan on Jun 7, 2017 13:47:32 GMT
We'll have to wait until the patch is released to see, but I think the new dialogue and animations are mainly cleaning up what was already in the game to make it flow better and prevent the copy/paste complaints that the bi male romances frequently get. No bi romance should be a copy and paste. If this is different, I hope future bi romances get that too. That PeeBee/Sara scene is just so wrong. This was one of my biggest hangups on making Jaal bi in a patch. I don't have faith in BioWare's ability to properly iron out all the kinks that inevitably arise in games this big. They seem to have gone into this knowing that they needed to make it stand out, I just hope their playtesting found problem, I'd hate to see his romance bring in a whole new host of bugs to squash. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:49:53 GMT
No bi romance should be a copy and paste. If this is different, I hope future bi romances get that too. That PeeBee/Sara scene is just so wrong. This was one of my biggest hangups on making Jaal bi in a patch. I don't have faith in BioWare's ability to properly iron out all the kinks that inevitably arise in games this big. They seem to have gone into this knowing that they needed to make it stand out, I just hope their playtesting found problem, I'd hate to see his romance bring in a whole new host of bugs to squash. Yeah the bugs will be there most likely, but Gamble said more patches to come, so I would't be surprised if they need to fix things more. They have so much still to fix that's not in this patch too. |
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Post by caladrius on Jun 7, 2017 13:53:50 GMT
<snip>
And, well, lately the world has been a little disappointing (but I won't get into politics or personal life here), so this news lifted my spirits. Hell, it gave me hope. Maybe that's stupid. Maybe that's shallow. But that's just how I see it.This point is the most salient for me. I'm up front about having no interest in Jaal at all, so from a selfish perspective, this isn't a win for me. It's a character who I am not at all interested in and I don't like the idea in general of changing a character's sexuality in a patch. I'm super disappointed that Gil and Reyes will continue to be treated like the afterthoughts that we all knew that they actually were and that sucks for their fans. BUT......victories of any kind are really few and far between lately. The state of the world is terribly depressing for LGBT people. And there are myriad reasons (such as Jaal originally being intended as bisexual, the lack of m/m content in general, the second-class nature that gay male ME fans have been treated in the series, etc.) for why I can support this particular change given the context. So while I'm not personally happy at all, I don't think it's fair to shit all over this victory since, god knows, we all need to win just a little every now and again. So I'll take it. Hell, maybe I'll even do a Jaal romance just to finally get my gaylien romance that I've always wanted. Even if it's with a monocle wearing, poncho clad, squid-cat. That also stood out to me and I strongly agree. ME:A dropped at a very stressful time for the LGBT community and having these backslides was heartbreaking. It starts to feel like everything we've been fighting for is in free fall, on basically every front. It's one of those nuances that I don't think people outside the community can really relate to or intuit. Having Bioware respond the way they have is hope that it hasn't gotten as bad as maybe the worst case scenario, at least. It means a lot more than just a video game romance in the full context of the political climate today and the fears we've been dealing with. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:55:02 GMT
This was one of my biggest hangups on making Jaal bi in a patch. I don't have faith in BioWare's ability to properly iron out all the kinks that inevitably arise in games this big. They seem to have gone into this knowing that they needed to make it stand out, I just hope their playtesting found problem, I'd hate to see his romance bring in a whole new host of bugs to squash. Yeah the bugs will be there most likely, but Gamble said more patches to come, so I would't be surprised if they need to fix things more. They have so much still to fix that's not in this patch too. Agreed, but they said that they will post full patch notes when patch v1.08 will go live (so maybe there are more so much needed fixes who knows), I hope it will be today or tomorrow. |
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Post by Steelcan on Jun 7, 2017 13:55:33 GMT
This was one of my biggest hangups on making Jaal bi in a patch. I don't have faith in BioWare's ability to properly iron out all the kinks that inevitably arise in games this big. They seem to have gone into this knowing that they needed to make it stand out, I just hope their playtesting found problem, I'd hate to see his romance bring in a whole new host of bugs to squash. Yeah the bugs will be there most likely, but Gamble said more patches to come, so I would't be surprised if they need to fix things more. They have so much still to fix that's not in this patch too. Well the sad thing is that as we get further and further out from the, lets say not universally praised game, their patience for patching will wear thin. It happened for DA:I and ME3 as well. They've still left some very big issues completely unaddressed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:57:36 GMT
Yeah the bugs will be there most likely, but Gamble said more patches to come, so I would't be surprised if they need to fix things more. They have so much still to fix that's not in this patch too. Well the sad thing is that as we get further and further out from the, lets say not universally praised game, their patience for patching will wear thin. It happened for DA:I and ME3 as well. They've still left some very big issues completely unaddressed. I think they are just patching in what they couldn't finish since they never took the 5 month delay offer. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:57:58 GMT
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Jun 7, 2017 14:07:33 GMT
Scott the awkward gay dude... Jaal the supposedly suave bi guy  But when they have to share a bed one evening due to *contrived coincidence*, what shall they do to curb their growing attraction? You'll see in Chapter 30 after 29 chapters of UST. |
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Post by isaidlunch on Jun 7, 2017 14:10:58 GMT
What I find interesting is that they didn't at all mention in the patch notes that Jaal was supposed to be bi all along. I mean, the code is still there. There are no gender checks. But I feel like they would've used that as an excuse to decrease the backlash (oh Jaal is bi now because he was actually supposed to be bi all along! it was cut because we didn't have enough time, so we're not actually "changing" the character) from offended dudebros, yet they still didn't. Maybe we were interpreting that code wrong all along? in which case, we can't use the "Jaal was supposed to be bi" argument either... idk They've always been sketchy when it comes to that. From what I remember there was similar drama with Cullen, with a cinematic designer saying they ran out of time for his male romance but then Gaider said that he was always planned as straight. And then the tweet from that cinematic designer mysteriously disappeared... |
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Post by Ryzaki on Jun 7, 2017 14:43:09 GMT
But seriously this is a surprise. I'm glad they did it but I didn't think they would. Hopefully they'll never put themselves in the position to have to do this again.
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moderately incensed firmicute
N2
Stay strong, and queer!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 186 Likes: 435
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Post by moderately incensed firmicute on Jun 7, 2017 15:51:32 GMT
I can't decide whether Jaal is top, bottom, or vers. hmmm.. Vers. We had that discussion before friendo.. hes so vers, you cant revers the gay |
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 7, 2017 16:42:45 GMT
Oh man. Ooooh man. I didn't think I'd be coming back to these forums, but... They've done it. They have actually gone and made him bi. I don't know how I feel about this. But at least now I can play my canon playthrough, so I'm not complaining lmao (I still can't quite believe this is real and really happening tbh)   |
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Post by shechinah on Jun 7, 2017 16:59:01 GMT
They've always been sketchy when it comes to that. From what I remember there was similar drama with Cullen, with a cinematic designer saying they ran out of time for his male romance but then Gaider said that he was always planned as straight. And then the tweet from that cinematic designer mysteriously disappeared... To be fair, that may have been a miscommunication. I may be mistaken but I don't think the cinematic designer is involved with the writing process and so may have gotten a mistaken impression. This is especially since cut content is common including for the characters that were intended to be only for one gender like Sera so I can see where the impression might come from. In Dragon Age: Origins, Cullen was designed to have a crush on mage Wardens that specifically were female. He never had a crush on mage Wardens that were male. Basically, I don't think Cullen was written to be bisexual prior to Dragon Age: Inquisition so I don't think they'd change it. I'm more inclined to go with David Gaider's comment on it and that the tweet was removed to prevent misinformation. |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by areskeith on Jun 7, 2017 17:44:56 GMT
He's not say they can be, what he's saying is that because of this people will try to use it as an example to try and have x character made an option because they don't like their current ones ( And no I'm saying this situation in that boat) And this last line in just unnecessary and out right attacking BioFan for having an honest opinion Jaal wasn't made bisexual because we were unhappy with Gil and Reyes. He was made this way because we didn't get a squadmate. We didn't have enough for the achievement. The entire movement was about representation, and us not having a m/m squadmate made the devs look pretty homophobic. Nowhere in the future of this franchise or any at Bioware will there be more LGBT options over heterosexual options. They will never change Sera or Suvi or Dorian to give straight people even MORE options. BioFan is making it seem like that is going to happen next, like because of this, everyone is free game. No, this is about representation, not about us wanting to bone Jaal. How obtuse can these people be? And I overall agree, but your still missing the point BioFan was trying to make and chose to claim that he has self-hate |
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moderately incensed firmicute
N2
Stay strong, and queer!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 186 Likes: 435
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moderately incensed firmicute
Stay strong, and queer!
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firmicute
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by moderately incensed firmicute on Jun 7, 2017 17:58:17 GMT
We'll have to wait until the patch is released to see, but I think the new dialogue and animations are mainly cleaning up what was already in the game to make it flow better and prevent the copy/paste complaints that the bi male romances frequently get. No bi romance should be a copy and paste. If this is different, I hope future bi romances get that too. That PeeBee/Sara scene is just so wrong. yeah.. Sara could just grab Peanutbutters jelly and bam, the scene makes sense, suddenly. I mean one can just..well apply movement and pressure to..*sweats profusely* :amirite:  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 17:59:46 GMT
No bi romance should be a copy and paste. If this is different, I hope future bi romances get that too. That PeeBee/Sara scene is just so wrong. yeah.. Sara could just grab Peanutbutters jelly and bam, the scene makes sense, suddenly. I mean one can just..well apply movement and pressure to..*sweats profusely* :amirite: One similar to Sera's in DAI would have been cute, but maybe more detailed! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 18:56:18 GMT
So no patch today, looks like tomorrow then.. Also full patch notes should be available then.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Jun 7, 2017 19:49:59 GMT
So no patch today, looks like tomorrow then.. Also full patch notes should be available then. HOLY SHIT THE ONE IN YOUR AVATAR TELL ME MORE ABOUT HIM |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 20:04:37 GMT
So no patch today, looks like tomorrow then.. Also full patch notes should be available then. HOLY SHIT THE ONE IN YOUR AVATAR TELL ME MORE ABOUT HIM It's beautiful work by ZanVarin |
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Jun 7, 2017 20:07:06 GMT
HOLY SHIT THE ONE IN YOUR AVATAR TELL ME MORE ABOUT HIM It's beautiful work by ZanVarin I'm following his stuff now thank you |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Dirk on Jun 7, 2017 20:39:19 GMT
Has anyone heard from the devs regarding other m/m romance fix apart from bi Jaal? They did say "improvements to male romance options for Scott Ryder" so I am going to assume that there will be improvement to Gil and/or Reyes also in the future.
This is not to say I am not happy with bi Jaal, but there are still some problems left that need Bioware's attention.
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